Get out of any "religion" that condones your killing, brother.

Islam is lame.

Jesus fed the multitudes with loaves of bread and baskets of fishes freely given to all.

Mohammad stole food from his neighbors and divided it only among his henchmen.

Jesus said all men are brothers.

Mohammad held slaves.

Jesus sacrified his life for others.

Mohammad sacrified everybody else for himself.

Islam is lame.

Posted by: profitsbeard at April 29, 2007 2:16 AM

“You need a handout, I’ll give you a handout.”
-Rocky II

A 37 year old male needs help paying for a doctor’s appointment for his wife?

Posted by: pez at April 29, 2007 4:39 AM

There is nothing racist in Islamic teachings, however that doesn't mean there is isn't any muslim who are racist bigots (like these wannabe arabs who are killing the darfurnians). But their racism is nothing religious, it's political.

Posted by: Hizballah_Supporter at April 29, 2007 6:12 AM

In the early 19th century, Arab slave traders were taking slaves out of Darfur for sale on the slave market in the Ottoman Empire in Anatolia and adjacent isles.

http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2006/03/slaves-from-darfur-around-1850-nothing.html

Posted by: Eliyahu at April 29, 2007 6:49 AM

I agree 100% with the Darfurians of Indiana that the Muslim world has done nothing to help them and that is because the Arab Muslims are and have always been very racist against black Africans, both in word and action. I hope that the suffering in Darfur ends as soon as possible and that peace and humanitarian aid is given to the people in Darfur quickly and not roadblocked by the Arab League and other such racist organizations. Having said that....I am not pleased to learn that another group of Muslims is now coming to the US as refugees. How many will be allowed in, along with Somalian Muslims, Iraqi Muslims, Albanian Muslims, Afghan Muslims...the issue for me is religion and not race. Soon, we will learn that Darfurian Muslims in Indiana only want female doctors for their wives, their children cannot draw human figures in art classes, they will need special prayer rooms and bathrooms wherever many of them are employed. No..no..no..no more.

Posted by: maryrose at April 29, 2007 7:23 AM

look liberals are massing against the muslim sudan governement! mass demonstrations all over the world! But will they support taking out hte sudanese muslim govt?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6604555.stm

Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at April 29, 2007 10:49 AM

I hope these Darfurians realize which religions are the religion of peace. And it's not Islam. I bet some of these Darfurians will convert. That's better than them becoming like the Somalis.

Posted by: wrathofasma at April 29, 2007 11:44 AM

"The Darfurians say Muslim apathy is due to racism and that Arab Muslims see black African Muslims as inferior. They also say Muslim governments don't want to accuse another Islamic government of mass murder."

This comment does not suprise me at all since Muslim governments do what is called doing a song and dance act in defense of each other.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 29, 2007 12:17 PM

"The greatest irony for many Darfuri immigrants is who has helped: Jews and Christians."

Ironic isn't it, when it is the very same people whom the Darfuri immigrants are taught to hate are in reality the true heros who have saved their very lives, Jews and Christians. It is good that these immigrants have learned the truth about non-Muslims Jews and Christians and have come to an appriciation of them.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 29, 2007 12:21 PM

"Supporter of Hezbollah,"

You state:

"There is nothing racist in Islamic teachings,[1] however that doesn't mean there is isn't any muslim who are racist bigots [2] (like these wannabe arabs [3] who are killing the darfurnians [4]). But their racism is nothing religious, it's political.[5]

[1] The Koran is an ambiguous book and is not clear in either permitting or forbidding racism. The Hadith are also not decisive on this issue because their are apparently contradictory statements attributed to Muhammad on this issue. For example, Muhammad's Farewell Address states that the Arab is not above the non-Arab except in God-fearingness. Here is a quote from the version of the Farewell Address, from the Muslim-Canada site:

"O people, your Lord is One, and your
father is one: all of you are from Adam,
and Adam was from the ground. The
noblest of you in Allah’s sight is the
most godfearing: Arab has no merit over
non-Arab other than godfearingness.
Have I given the message? -- O Allah,
be my witness."

The statement is ambiguous on the ethnic/racial equality issue because it could mean that Arabs can actually have merit over non-Arabs on the basis of God-fearingness. On the other hand, it could have been intended as a statement of racial equality.

There are other statements from the Hadith which suggest that Arab (especially Quraysh--Muhammad's tribe) Muslims should rule over others.

"Jabir bin Samurah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
I joined the company of the Holy Prophet (may peace be upon him) with my father and I heard him say: This Caliphate will not end until there have been twelve Caliphs among them. Then he (the Holy Prophet) said something that I could not follow. I said to my father: What did he say? He said: He has said: All of them will be from the Quraish."
Hadith number in Sahih Muslim [Arabic only]: 3393

" 'Abdullah bin 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: The Caliphate will remain among the Quraish even if only two persons are left (on the earth)."
Hadith number in Sahih Muslim [Arabic only]: 3392

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 700:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The tribe of Quraish has precedence over the people in this connection (i.e the right of ruling). The Muslims follow the Muslims amongst them, and the infidels follow the infidels amongst them. People are of different natures: The best amongst them in the pre-lslamic period are the best in Islam provided they comprehend the religious knowledge. You will find that the best amongst the people in this respect (i.e. of ruling) is he who hates it (i.e. the idea of ruling) most, till he is given the pledge of allegiance."

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 704:
Narrated Muhammad bin Jubair bin Mut'im:
That while he was with a delegation from Quraish to Muawiya, the latter heard the news that 'Abdullah bin 'Amr bin Al-'As said that there would be a king from the tribe of Qahtan. On that Muawiya became angry, got up and then praised Allah as He deserved, and said, "Now then, I have heard that some men amongst you narrate things which are neither in the Holy Book, nor have been told by Allah's Apostle. Those men are the ignorant amongst you. Beware of such hopes as make the people go astray, for I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'Authority of ruling will remain with Quraish, and whoever bears hostility to them, Allah will destroy him as long as they abide by the laws of the religion.' "

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 709:
Narrated Anas: Uthman called Zaid bin Thabit, Abdullah bin Az-Zubair, Said bin Al-'As and 'AbdurRahman bin Al-Harith bin Hisham, and then they wrote the manuscripts of the Holy Qur'an in the form of book in several copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi persons. "If you differ with Zaid bin Thabit on any point of the Quran, then write it in the language of Quraish, as the Quran was revealed in their language." So they acted accordingly. (Said bin Thabit was an Ansari and not from Quraish ).

Narrated by Hudhayfah,:
The Prophet said: "The Mahdi is a man from my children. His face is like a glittering star, his skin is the color of an Arab, and his body is like that of Israel. He will fill the earth with justice just as it will have been filled by injustice, and the dwellers of Heaven and Earth will be pleased with his Caliphate."
(Abu Nuaym, At-Tabarani, and Abu Amru Ad Dani.)

Also:

Muhammad, quoted in Tabari:

"I summon them to utter a saying through which the Arabs will submit to them and they will rule over the non-Arabs."

In the Sira:

“The apostle of God used to say to his companions, ‘I am the most Arab of you all.’” (Ishaq, p. 72).

From Andrew Bostom, p. 149.

-quotes Averroes who writes “Abu Ubayd has related that the Prophet never enslaved male Arabs.”

Quran:

-Allah speaks Arabic (20:113, 41:3), though Islam is a message to all humankind (7:157-158, 34:28, etc.). Question: Why are all of Islam's prophets from the Middle Eastern region? I guess Allah does not reveal his message to all humans equally.

From Islamic Law:

(See Abul Kasem’s article below).

-Law m4.2 The following are not suitable matches for one another:
(1) a non Arab man for an Arab woman (O:because of the hadith that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said: “Allah has chosen the Arabs above others”).

- From Abul Kasem: "The ultimate goal of the Islamists is the creation of a Pan Islamic world, which must be ruled by a caliph (the Islamists call it the Khilafat movement) who will be responsible to enforce Islamic laws (Sharia) globally. So, what are the requirements to be a caliph?—you might ask. According to Islamic law, (ref: Reliance of the Traveller, published by Amana Publications, Bettsville, Maryland, 1999, pp.640-642, law number o25.3) the mandatory qualifications of an Islamic caliph are: 1. must be a Muslim 2. must be a male 3. must be from the Quraysh tribe of the Arabs 4. must be a freeman (i.e., not a slave) 5. must be of sound mind. This provision of Islamic law means that the world—the Pan Islamic world must be ruled by an Arab (from the Quraysh stock, probably from Saudi Arabia or Jordan) and no one else. This also means that George Bush, Tony Blair, Jacque Chirac, Vladimir Putin, the Chinese Prime Minister, the Japanese Prime Minister….the most powerful infidel leaders in the world and the not-so-powerful infidel leaders must convert to Islam, declare complete allegiance to the new Arab/Quraysh caliph and become this Arab caliph’s governors. If they do not comply with such Islamic demand then they must be removed by terror, intimidation, and force."

Sources and other notes, see
Abul Kasem's article
Robert Spencer's first comments here
Anwar Sheikh's comments on Arab supremacy in this

[2] Agreed. There are bigots in most groups, Muslim or not.

[3] "wannabe Arabs" -That statement highlights the problem. Two-teir Islam: Arabs vs everyone else.

[4] Many Muslims will not admit to what is happening in Darfur, claiming it is hype, propaganda, etc.

[5] There is not a clear division between religion and politics within Islam.

Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at April 29, 2007 2:29 PM

This is second hand sources and maybe other explantions can be given about Racism in the Islamic religion. I have not read from the Koran these quotes so any mistakes it's my fault. But I have found these quotes and it's up to the people to decide if they are racist or misunderstood.

----------------

Bukhari: V9B89N256 "Allah's Apostle said, ‘You should listen to and obey your ruler even if he is a black African slave whose head looks like a raisin.'"

Ishaq:374 "The black troops and slaves of the Meccans cried out and the Muslims replied, ‘Allah destroy your sight, you impious rascals.'"

Bukhari:V4B52N137 "The Prophet said, ‘Let the negro slave of Dinar perish. And if he is pierced with a thorn, let him not find anyone to take it out for him.... If he [the black slave] asks for anything it shall not be granted, and if he needs intercession [to get into paradise], his intercession will be denied.'"

Ishaq:243 "I heard the Apostle say: ‘Whoever wants to see Satan should look at Nabtal!' He was a black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks.... Allah sent down concerning him: ‘To those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom." [9:61] "Gabriel came to Muhammad and said, ‘If a black man comes to you his heart is more gross than a donkey's.'"

Tabari II:11 "Shem, the son of Noah was the father of the Arabs, the Persians, and the Greeks; Ham was the father of the Black Africans; and Japheth was the father of the Turks and of Gog and Magog who were cousins of the Turks. Noah prayed that the prophets and apostles would be descended from Shem and kings would be from Japheth. He prayed that the African's color would change so that their descendants would be slaves to the Arabs and Turks."
-----------------
But anyway does not the language of the Koran have the same voice that speaks out at non belivers and other religions including Jews and Chritians let alone races. All sound like the same hate and intolerance to me as anything else that Muslims can not stand in the free world.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at April 29, 2007 2:32 PM

This is just absolutely typical of the "moderate muslim" mind-set.

This is exactly the same sort of person that lived next door to Bergen Belsen and had no idea that people were being murdered en masse. The "good Germans".

These are the train conductors who claimed to believe that the people they were carting off to the Stalinist gulags were common criminals. The "good Russians".

The Stassi, the Polish communists, the Maoist neighborhood snitch ... the list is long.

The depth of corruption that lies behind such moral indifference is disgusting beyond my ability to describe.

We've seen these people before!

They change hats, languages, religions, excuses, but they are always the same.

We know who they are in their souls!

The collaborators. The snitches. The rats.

Now they are called the "moderate muslims".

Posted by: joeblough at April 29, 2007 2:36 PM

But unlike the Bible God does not use colour to define a people or a race, maybe some decedents but the New Testament does not speak in terms of colour and appearances of man and races. Maybe the Old Testament for the sons of Noah but even then race description was down to the region of settlers of these groups from the sons of Noah and nothing direct the way humans and the Koran spell it out? I wonder why God of the Bible does not see the difference in races but of course there are those who are chosen because of covenants and promises. The one distinct race calling was of Abraham’s Ishmael but he was not defined as a colour just as a people who in future will cause trouble amongst the Jewish brothers in the future because of not being the chosen Child from the Biblical view as Isaac was.

Posted by: jesusisthelamb at April 29, 2007 2:40 PM

I will add that the debate on this point is hobbled by the use of the word "racism".

In this particular case it is clearly racism at play. And I've seen plenty of anecdotal evidence that contempt for black Africans is widespread in arab and mohammedan culture. (Which is always a source of bitter amusement to me when the American "Black Muslims" get into the press).

But that issue is secondary.

It is easy if one ignores basic principles to get caught up in whether or not mohammedans form a "race", or a tribe or a nation, and then get lost in the semantics of which "ism" is motivating the blood-letting. Racism, nationalism, imperialism ... whatever.

The bottom line principle is collective identity, group identity.

We lack a widely accepted term for the collectivised mind in general.

One can say tribalism, and then people will get all confused in what constitutes a "tribe". One can say "collectivism" and people will get it all confused with socialism and communism.

Personally I incline to the terms collective-minded or crowd-mentality for the basic principle. But I'm open to suggestion.

It doesn't matter much if your contempt for the neighboring groups is based on their religion, or their appearance, their language or their class or any other group definition. The principle is the same.

The counter-principle is the moral judgement of people as individuals.

Group membership is irrelevant, regardless of group definition.

And on this point there is nothing to debate.

Mohammedanism unambiguously promotes group mindedness. Us-and-them. The house of submission and the house of war. Dar al-Islam and dar al-Harb.

There are just too many instances in the literature to bother citing any one, and it spews from the mouths of their preachers around the world daily.

And it promotes a collectivised mentality which is open to every sort of group passion and hostility.

Posted by: joeblough at April 29, 2007 3:02 PM

This might be another example that goes back to what i was saying earlier about the situation regarding muslim immigration.

I don't want mass, uncontrolled islamic immigration anymore than the other posters here. That being said, given that these Darfurians are muslim, at least in identification of not nearly as much in fanatical adherence as many others, there are still plenty of good things that can come from them resettling here.

1. THeir comments about the racist realities should be made loud and clear to other Americans, and, at risk of sounding racially divisive, to all the black americans who claim to convert to islam to somehow "escape american racism". Just like any other black africans under arab islamic rule, their testimonies can help heavily curb Da'wa campaigns among Black and many other Americans, by alerting them to the harsh realities of racial attitudes among followers of "purist" islam.

2. There is large potential for these Darfurians to become leaders in spearheading apostasy, or at least genuine *reform*, movements within the islamic world. With peoples like these that is in fact much mor elikely then that they'd start demanding special rights like, say hte Saudis, Somalis, Pakis, Turks and North African Arabs.

If you look through testimonies of apostates, dissidents and anti-jihadists among muslim communities, they overwhelingly state that their moment of truth came after the started lives in Western nations and realized everything their islamist preachers and scholars said about Jews, Hindus and Christians and Westerners in general was blatantly false. Now i know the most ideal scenario is for things like this to happen within the Islamic world as opposed to the west. But until we STOP being such p**sies with regard to islamic leaderships, and stop empowering them to terrorize apostates and freethinkers, this is not really going to be realistic. The next best thing is to give marginalized members of the islamic world, including Darfurians, North African Amazigh, Kurds in Iran/Iraq (well some of them anyway), Baloch/Sindhis in pakiland, Persian activists and all the other minorities in Iran, opportunites to start apostasy and genuine *reform*/human rights movements in environemnts safe from militant Islamics aided by Western appeasers. Even Hugh himself has noted how that is already happening in large numbers among groups like the Amazigh peoples in Europe.

3. If we were to decide that all peoples labeled as *muslim* are barred entry, we will still face the question of how to designate people like these Darfurians, or other Black Muslims in Sudan, as being somehow less in need or less deserving of refugee status that the CHristians form the South. Back in the Sudan it's not as if these Africans have any more abilities to to take control of their situations and liberate themselves as do the CHristians in the SOuth. Again, I'm opposed highyl to mass, unrestricted muslim immigration, this is meant to address the logical aspects of exactly how to deal with future immiogrants from these areas.

Posted by: maxwell46&2 at April 29, 2007 3:28 PM

"Hizballah_Supporter,"

You are aware that you are a supporter of a genocidal organization?

Alan Dershowitz, in FrontPageMagazine (August 11, 2006 ) quotes Hizballah Leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah: "If Jews all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide." (NY Times, May 23, 2004, p. 15, section 2, column 1.)

Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at April 29, 2007 4:42 PM

The situation in Darfur has a parallel to that in Iraq - both are characterized by Muslim indifference to Muslims killing other Muslims. In Iraq, it's Sunni killing Shi'a and vice versa, and Arab killing Kurd; in Darfur, mixed race Arab/blacks kill non-Arab, black Muslims (as well as others, who are even less worthy of life, as they are not only non-Arab, but wholly black, and not even Muslim). As long as Muslims are doing the killing, the Umma will react with unconcern, tacit acquiescence, or denial, depending on the creed and ethnicity of the victims.

Posted by: commonsense at April 29, 2007 4:56 PM

I have to laugh being married to an African American and some of the comments I've heard over the years. Many Black American Muslims choose or were drawn to the Muslim religion because they consider Christianity the "white man's religion". And the Bible was written by white men to keep the black man down. They don't want to talk about how Africans or dark skinned blacks are treated by Islam in these countries let alone how Islam holds down and enslaves thier adherrants especially women.

Posted by: TheRegulator at April 29, 2007 10:17 PM

Muslims, black or white, should try to trace their family history.
Most likely they'll find out that it was a matter of survival(chop off head), their ancestors converted, or prehaps their male ancestors were slain and the women were enslaved.
I'm sure many a prayer went up for them by these poor souls.
I know if I were forced to convert by the sword, my prayer would be for my childrens, children forever, that God, one day would bring them out of the mess(Islam).

Posted by: Joe Schmoe USA at April 29, 2007 11:14 PM

'We are Muslims, and we don't want your Muslim country to kill your own Muslims,' that may have made a lot of difference," Giddo said.
"Instead, we the people of Darfur paid that price."

Yup and your buddies in Iran,Iraq,Indonesia,Pakistan,Morroco...hell everywhere you kill each other with vigor and glee. By the way Giddo what are you doing in my country? How did you get here? Who let you in? Why do you now bring this moslem religion to this country?

Posted by: solomonpal at April 30, 2007 12:22 AM

This is why Christians need to be very sensitive to what the Bible really says, and resist the temptation to turn the Gospel of Christ into a club held over other people's heads.

We need to keep the doors open to these Darfuri refugees. Maybe we'll see defections from Islam among them.

Pez, don't be so hard on the 37-year-old man who needs help paying for the doctor. Lots of refugees have scarcely two cents to rub together, and are aided by various agencies in getting the plane tickets to resettlement countries. Imagine if you started out in a strange country where your language skills were weak to nonexistent, had a family, and arrived with basically nothing but a bundle of belongings. Now, figure in having to pay for rent, food, clothing, school supplies, etc. on the earnings made from a job open to someone without the linguistic and professional skills needed by the high-paying jobs in this country. Then, to top it all off, your wife gets a serious illness. S--t does indeed happen, Pez--and refugees are folks to whom much more than the usual load of s--t has happened. A little compassion would be in order.

TheRegulator: glad to see that there are others who have poked through the color bar here.

Posted by: Kepha at April 30, 2007 6:56 AM

....I am not surprized to learn that the race whores in America, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, who are quick to bring up race issues that really are no longer valid and who continue to harp on race problems that existed 200 years ago, fail to say one word regarding the real and valid racism that exists for blacks in Darfur and other areas around the world in todays real time...

....doesn't surprize me at all...they live in the past...they continue to instigate race problems, maybe they agree with the Arabs:

Posted by: exsgtbrown at April 30, 2007 6:57 AM

"This is why Christians need to be very sensitive to what the Bible really says, and resist the temptation to turn the Gospel of Christ into a club held over other people's heads.

We need to keep the doors open to these Darfuri refugees. Maybe we'll see defections from Islam among them."

So is that why these types of refugees want foot baths in airports? Refuse to carry taxi passengers with dogs and alchohol? Are you blind to what has happened as a result of moslem migration to European countries?How did you, government and private agencies decide that this was the right course for our country? What process did you use to decide that this was good for this country?...to import primitive thought mindset and saddle my children and future grandchildren with the role to combat this deviancy?Where are all these converts to christianity?Wishful thinking?To continue the rot and dissention from within as if there is not enough already...The list is infinite..And to label those who don't share your point of view as racist? Go back to the drawing board.

Posted by: solomonpal at April 30, 2007 11:24 AM

Is there a Maeceanas, even a baby Maecenas, who can buy copies of Anwar Sheikh's "Islam the Arab National Religion" and distribute them (perhaps having them translated into whatever language the Darfurians can read) to refugees from Darfur?

Can this theme not be made central to all efforts to shrink Islam, by pointing out to as many of the world's Muslims, 80% of whom are not Arabs, that Islam is a vehicle for Arab supremacism?

The Berbers, or some of them, are coming to undertaand what the most advanced and aware Berbers (such as the writer Kateb Yacine) always knew. The Kurds too (save for those who are, like the members of Ansar al-Sunna, plus islamiste que les islamistes, which means de-emphasizing their Kurdishness and embracing Islam as the sole source of their identity) are beginning to get the picture. In Iran, and among Iranians in exile, the awareness of a pre-Islamic and non-Islamic history can be turned to advantage, and perhaps there are some who will be able to jettison Islam more easily if Islam is rightly seen as an "Arab" import, an "Arab" Trojan horse, an "Arab" religion.

Muslims ideally must read the Qur'an in classical Arabic. Non-Arab students in madrasas everywhere spend their formative years idiotically memorizing verses from the Qur'an in a langugage they do not understand. Muslims take on Arab names, and proudly flaunt false Arab lineages (think of all those "Sayeeds" in Pakistan -- supposedly descendants of memmbers of the Quraysh tribe of Muhammad). They prostrate themselves qibla-wards five times a day -- that is, in the direction of the Arab city of Mecca. They not only prostrate themselves physically, but offer mental obedience, slavish submission, to the Will of Allah, and to the example of Muhammad, a seventh-century Arab, and to a lesser extent, to the example of the other Arabs who were the Companions.

And the Arabs are keenly aware of themselves as Arabs. Islamization was accompanied by, or followed by, arabization, and arabization is also accompanied by, or followed by, islamization. They go together. Here and there they have been resisted. In Iran, for example, the writer Firdowsi with his Shahnama was held to have prevented the linguistic imperialism of the Arabs, and no doubt the superiority of Persian poets to the primitive Arabs (a dozen or two dozen Arab poets hardly makes a literature) -- Hafiz, Sa'adi, Omar Khayyamnj -- who were most un-Islamic in their sentiments and who also wrote in Persian, helped to keep the civilization of Persia, superior to that of the Arabs. In art, the more easy-going and more sophisticated and civilized Persians did not, unlike the primitive desert Arabs, completely reject all figurative art. That refusal, that willingness to not be slavishly submissive in every way to the tenets of Islam, permitted, not Western-style portraiture or statuary, but at least the possibility of Persian and Mughal miniatures. IN the same way, the Ottoman padishahin were positively proud to have Italians paint their portraits. Think of Giovanni Bellini (in Constantinople from 1579 to 1581) and his famous portrait of Mehmet II. By the way, an excellent show -- one that I managed to see- on the portraits of the Padishahin was mounted at Topkapi in 2000. Had Erdogan and his followers been in full control, I wonder if such a show would have been put on.

The American and other Infidel govenments should, as they attempt to carry the propaganda war to the Camp of Islam, Islam as a vehicle for Arab imperialism. It can be done -- but only by those who understand what divisions exist, in posse and in esse, within that Camp of Islam.

Oh, and there is one more thing about this business of Arab supremacism within Islam as central to a propaganda war. It all happens to be true.

Posted by: Hugh at April 30, 2007 1:45 PM