Yet another reason to despise the overpaid apparatchiks of the EU. Disgusting dhimmi pukes

Posted by: dennisw at May 4, 2007 6:48 PM

Behold, Condi Rice, fully transformed moonbat..

Posted by: Madduck at May 4, 2007 7:11 PM

Onur Oymen must be reading my mind (or previous JW/DW posts).

"The idea of moderate Islam to check radical Islam is nonsense"

Hear, hear!

Moderate Muslims are too weak and "civilized", compared to the terroristic, violent jihadists, to have any effect.

Letr the infidels and "secularists" who are awake take them on.

We know we wouldn't survive the Jihad.

So we'll fight as if our lives depended on it.

While "moderate Muslims"- if the Jihad won- could always bow and go along, pretending they were all for the jihadists the whole time.

Posted by: profitsbeard at May 4, 2007 7:27 PM

The EU is founded on the principles of liberty, democracy, respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, the rule of law, and the supremacy of democratic civilian power over the military.

Huh? The only military the EU has had over the last half-century is that supplied by the US Armed Forces, at US taxpayer's expense.

If this thinks the Turkic Moslems are gonna water the trough for a half-century like the reviled Yankees did, she's sadly mistaken.

Turks have a very "dry" sense of humor; ask any Amerenian. No trough.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at May 4, 2007 7:31 PM

Hey, how would you feel about including Mexico in the US after a military coup?

Posted by: Vagn Henning at May 4, 2007 7:45 PM

Hey, how would you feel about including Mexico in the US after a military coup?

Hasn't that already happened without a military coup? Say what you will about H. Ross Perot, but NAFTA was a fraud, a fraud w/o consequences to the politicos and opinion celebrities who foisted it on the unsuspecting American people.'

* 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 ** 33:21 *

In other words, coups are no longer accomplished in military theaters; they're now pulled off in TV news studios, all of which are theaters of tragi-comedy.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at May 4, 2007 8:49 PM

From a posting on April 30:

"From today's news, there is the case of 'Olli Rehn, the European Union enlargement commissioner, who has been a keen supporter of Ankara's eventual accession to the bloc, warned the military to stay out of politics, saying the election was a 'test case' for the Turkish military's respect for democracy.'"

[Posted by: Hugh at April 30, 2007 09:51 AM]

And here is Olli Rehn again today, telling the secularist Turks they must do nothing to prevent the Islamic power from strengthening its hold over the country:

"'The EU is founded on the principles of liberty, democracy, respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, the rule of law, and the supremacy of democratic civilian power over the military,' Olli Rehn, the EU enlargement commissioner, said in a statement."

What is Olli Rehn? A German in the bureaucy of the E.U. (how soothing to be able to disguise his Germanness in pan-European projects), eager to curry favor with the millions of Turks, increasingly fervent in their Islam (save for a few who do manage to jettison Islam altogether), in Germany. And a dangerous fool, is Olli Rehn.

Posted by: Hugh at May 4, 2007 10:13 PM

"Onur Oymen, the hawkish deputy chairman of the main opposition Republican People's Party, said the secular basis of the Turkish state was the true guarantee of democracy.

'You can't have democracy without secularism,' he said. 'The notion of moderate Islam to check radical Islam is nonsense. This idea being promoted by certain countries should be abandoned.'
-- from the article above

"When I suggest that radical Muslims are the problem and that moderate Muslims are the solution..."
-- Daniel Pipes, on hundreds of occasions

So who is more convincing? Who has a longer experience living with Islam? Who seems to make better sense? Is it Onur Oymen, or is it Daniel Pipes?

Posted by: Hugh at May 4, 2007 10:17 PM

The European Union warned the Turkish military yesterday that its interference in the country's politics could jeopardise its chances of joining the EU. "The EU is founded on the principles of liberty, democracy, respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, the rule of law, and the supremacy of democratic civilian power over the military," Olli Rehn, the EU enlargement commissioner, said in a statement.

As I indicated in a previous post on this topic, the army needn't stay disengaged, they merely need to change their stance and modus operandi so that it is clear that they are the agent under which the rule of law is upheld. Stop threatening a coup and instead "threaten" to uphold the secular foundation upon which the current state is built -- if necessary, by maintaining that status in opposition to government forces, peacefully, unless the government chooses violence (with what means ... ?).

At this point it's easy for the Islamists to paint the army as rogue warmongers, and Condi is forced to agree (publicly) with them. Turn it around by taking a stance that makes any move toward Islamification a clear violation of the rule of law, and it gives the army moral ground upon which to act.

Posted by: Archimedes2 at May 4, 2007 10:44 PM

And to think people wanted her to run for President.

Posted by: Elric66 at May 5, 2007 12:29 AM

Oh, the many ironies in all of this.

The only way the "secularists" can get EU membership is by putting a leash on the military, hence removing the one factor that guarrentees them power.

The "secular" state of Turkey is a sham, as noted by "Greek Gurl" , etc. It's secular for the muslims but there's no home for the infidels in Turkey. So it's not really all that secular in the first place now, is it?

Posted by: ewha1 at May 5, 2007 12:46 AM

And to think people wanted her to run for President.

Posted by: Elric66

Strangely, we should thank her for demonstrating how unfit she is.

Posted by: LoneRanger at May 5, 2007 12:54 AM

"Hey, how would you feel about including Mexico in the US after a military coup?" by Vagn Henning

Did y'all know that after the 1848 War with Mexico the Southern states wanted to annex Mexico as a slave state or states? The issue about slavery was always about counting congressional votes.

Imagine if there were enough votes and a co-operative president way back then.

Posted by: Pelayo at May 5, 2007 1:18 AM

There is something about the State Department which is highy contagious
and turns brains to useless blue-green moldy porridge. Condi Rice has grown
dumber than a fungus and is siding with the EU in decrying the Turkish
Supreme Court's nullifying the Turkish elections on the basis of a silly
call of "democracy uber alles" even when the Supreme Court's judgement was
strictly in accordance with the Turkish Constitution propounded by Mustafa
Kamel Ataturk, the nation's founder, and his peers. I have an ever growing
suspicion that we need our State Department about as much as dogs need the
fleas that infest them.

Posted by: jdow at May 5, 2007 5:13 AM

Eurabia, promoting democracy to shut down individual rights.

Posted by: joeblough at May 5, 2007 5:30 AM

I cannot believe no one sees the confrontation between the Turkish Army, and secularism on the one hand, and Turkish democracy and Islam on the other hand, as playing into the hands of the Turkish military. The US and EU have groaned and whined about Turkey's internal politics for years, and now they want to pressure them to abandon secularism by default. The Turkish army has the luxury, in an age of profound resentment against the US, to say, "we say to the Americans go to hell, we'll run our country as we wish and not you". The same could go for the EU, with all their interference in Turkish affairs, though I do admit it is mostly for the good. This is one case where the US needs to be told to butt out. This could be popular with Turks, even the very people who support the AK party.

Posted by: Quijybo at May 5, 2007 9:30 AM

"after the 1848 War with Mexico the Southern states wanted to annex Mexico as a slave state or states?..."
-- from a posting above

Not "the Southern states" as a whole, but rather some famous filibusterers, such as William Walker "the grey-eyed man of destiny" (who went down to Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, Costa Rica --or least three of the four), Narciso Lopez (with his plans for Cuba), and much later Albert Gallatin Brown (who wanted the northern parts of Mexico), all thought that slavery, which had been abolished in Mexico in 1839, should again be extended southward.

Posted by: Hugh at May 5, 2007 2:20 PM

Condi and the EU are right.

Democracy has to be based on the will of the people. A democracy that exists because it is protected by the army elite only is not a democracy at all, but a farce.

Therefore, if the Islamists take over and if they do away with Turkey's present democracy and get away with it, than Turks do not deserve democracy and in fact deserve the tyranny of sharia. They will also demonstrate that they do not belong in the EU.

If the Islamists respect democracy and Turkey's democracy survives them, than Turkey's experiment in allowing Islamists to gain power will offer a beacon of hope to other Muslim countries. The Islamists of Turkey would also become a role model for other Islamist in the ME to follow.

Posted by: mandi at May 5, 2007 7:05 PM

Sorry, Hugh, Olli Rehn is not German but Finnish (probably of ethnic Swedish origin, if we consider his family name).

Posted by: highbg at May 6, 2007 3:15 AM

I have apparently been wrong about Rehn (see post just above) so will eliminate my attribution to him of sentiments about Turkey that I believed were in part prompted by his wishing to appease Turks in Germany.

Sorry.

Posted by: Hugh at May 6, 2007 5:26 PM