"The churchmen expressed surprise that Al Qaeda’s influence has ‘reached parts of Baghdad while the government has kept silent and not taken a firm stance to stop their expansion.’"

HUH?....which closet have these churchmen been hiding in?...are they that stupid?....are they just now beginning to figure out that Muslims don't like them....are they just now beginning to realize their "government" may be a little biased?.....I think this bad treatment of Non Muslims has been going on for about 1400 years...talk about your slow learners...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at May 10, 2007 7:51 AM

Sympathy for Christians should not prevent one from pointing out that these Christian leaders chose to misstate the problem because they don't dare to speak the full truth. The government is Shi'a-dominated. The Christian leaders know . perfectly well that the attacks on Christians do not come only from Al Qaeda in Iraq, an entirely Sunni group that is dedicated to fighting not just the Americans, but all Infidels, and this includes the "Rafidite dogs" or Shi'a "Infidels." But the Shi'a are not brave defenders of the Chrisians, and in southern Iraq, and especially in Basra, Christians have been killed by Shi'a, for offenses such as selling liquor, and for offenses, hard to aovid, of being Christians.

The Christian leaders do not dare to state the truth: they do not dare to state that when Saddam Hussein was removed, and his regime, based on a disguised Sunni despotism decked out as "secular" (that word appears in quotes because it has a particular meaning)also removed, that this insured that Islam would come back, Shi'a and Sunni, Arab and Kurd (though with a different, non-Arab identity that plays against, rather than reinforces, Islam, there is some hope -- but don't get those hopes up too high -- that the Christians may find some greater protection in the Kurdish areas, both because the Christian population is larger, and because the Kurds are grateful, to the Infidel Americans who provided them with air-cover for a dozen years (1991-2003), and have done so much since to enable an autonomous Kurdistan to come into being, and whose support will be indispensable if that autonomous Kurdistan attempts to transform itself into an independent Kurdistan).

It is not Al Qaeda that kidnapped the women from the last remaining eight Christian families in Ramadi, and killed or drove out, or forced to convert, the men, as happened early in the war. It is not Al Qaeda that has been killing Christians in Basra. It is local Sunni Arabs, and local Shi'a Arabs. It may be politically necessary for the Christian leaders in Iraq to pretend -- and even to believe -- otherwise.

But we shouldn't, any more than we should believe the stories from terrified local "Palestinian" islamochristians that downplay what the Muslims do and absurdly claim that it is the Israelis who are making life hell for Christian Arabs in Bethlehem or Gaza or anywhere else.

Read between the dhimmified lines. Take in, and comprehend.

Posted by: Hugh at May 10, 2007 8:30 AM

Sympathy for Christians should not prevent one from pointing out that these Christian leaders chose to misstate the problem because they don't dare to speak the full truth.

Easy to type such a bold essay and critque of the plight of Iraqi Christians under the cover of a computer psuedo-name....

Posted by: adobe at May 10, 2007 8:42 AM

"The government has kept silent and not taken a firm stance to stop their expansion."

I suppose 'expansion' is supposed to mean 'expulsion'- or am I missing something here...?

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at May 10, 2007 9:19 AM

For small things I am grateful. At least the Catholic leaders did not start down the path of, "Our people are leaving because the economy is bad." They are beginning to tell the truth. They KNOW the truth..they have had trouble saying it in a public forum. They should have issued the statement with a broader base, Christians of Protestant faith, Mandaeans, Yadzis, and whoever else they could find to sign a statement for all minorities. Their fellow Muslim countrymen don't care, but just maybe some people in the West might care, although I have my doubts about that too.

Posted by: maryrose at May 10, 2007 9:33 AM

"Easy to type such a bold essay and critque of the plight of Iraqi Christians under the cover of a computer psuedo-name....

Posted by: adobe"

...so is replying to one...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at May 10, 2007 9:36 AM

Christians in Iraq, it is time to consider leaving Iraq for your own safety.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at May 10, 2007 9:50 AM

@ bigcatgirl13106: They have been - to the tune of ~500,000 people, according to a radio article I heard yesterday.

Anyone recall this? http://www.takimag.com/site/article/the_vanishing_christians_of_iraq/

Posted by: Godefroi at May 10, 2007 9:55 AM

There's more:

http://www.aina.org/news/20070508233923.htm

http://www.aina.org/news/20070508233746.htm

http://www.aina.org/news/20070508110203.htm

http://www.aina.org/news/20070508105644.htm

http://www.aina.org/news/20070506133612.htm

Posted by: Godefroi at May 10, 2007 10:02 AM

Isn't it possible that this misstatement of the problem by the leadership of the remaining Christian community in Iraq, this complaint against al Qaeda, is an appeat to the West, to the US in particular, not to be abandoned?

I was no fan of the Iraq invasion from the start. It was a fight that was based upon flimsy pretexts, bad or non-exsistent strategic goals and without a thoroughly considered plan for pacifying the country. This last point, of course, had it been addressed in any depth, may have led to reconsideration of the entire project. But all of that said, what to do now?

To cut and run and let the fanatics go at each others' throats, use up their resources and become enmired in a long-term conflict has been proposed. There may be some merit in such an approach, that is until one considers the remaining, dwindling minority populations. What about them? Are we to see them resettled? Surely they'd make better candidates for citizenship in Western nations than ungrateful types such as the Ft. Dix Six. But on the other hand the flight of non-Moslems from these lands cannot be disguised from the retreat that it is.

To my knowledge, non-Moslem homelands in Iraq or elsewhere in the Middle East are not being discussed by anybody. This isn't much of a surprise. Almost all Moslem governments would be set against it, particularly the Saudis who have a lot of political clout in Washington. That doesn't mean that homelands for Assyrian Christians and other non-Moslem ethnic groups are a bad idea, that is, unless you're a politician. if you're a politician the political cost is way too high for too little pay off. Western business interests, with their lobby influence in Western capitals amd close Saudi connections, are not likely to put human rights solutions of this sort on the agenda. It's much easier to airlift these folks out of the region entirely, away from their homelands spanning generations and then afterwards the politicos can self-congratulate themselves at another humanitarian project completed. "Mission accomplished."

If there was anything like integrity, vision and fortitude, somebody might want to revisit what's going on now in the Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East, perhaps to lay the groundwork for non-Moslem autonomous regions, regions friendly to Western civilization with a population grateful for any protection received from the West. This won't happen, however. Dhimmitude, as to be found creeping into the halls of Western government, forbids it.

Posted by: Chatillon at May 10, 2007 10:21 AM

Elias:

Your proposal is an intriguing one but I wonder how realistic it is to expect to "revive the Assyrian Empire" given a population of not quite 1.5 million people.

The West ought to be doing more to promote the interests of non-Moslems in the Middle East, but it seems to me that whatever strategy is developed could be undermined if its built on support for small, isolated, geographically balkanized enclaves.

That's why I repeated the other day a proposal made some time ago by another commenter.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/016325.php#comments

I note that this proposal could be developed in such a way as to have the recovery of the Assyrians' sovereignty over their lands in Mesopotamia as one of its longer-term objectives, but it has has what I think may be a considerable advantage of concentrating anti-Jihadist forces in one location where they can more easily provide mutual support and assistance. On the other hand, I don't suppose that the current size of Israel and the occupied territories would give them a whole lot of breathing room.

If you're able, I'd find it helpful if you provided some insight into the potential viability of the kind of independent Assyrian state in present day Iraq that you're proposing.
Specifically, what kind of economy would it have and how would it be defended, particularly given the large Islamic presence in the region and its relative geographic isolation from the West, even as compared to Israel?

Posted by: templar at May 10, 2007 1:02 PM

Elias:

For my benefit and perhaps for others as well can you tell me:

1) How large is the Assyrian population? What portion of that resides in in Iraq?
2) What are the historic boundaries of the Assyrian homeland?

Many thanks.

Posted by: Chatillon at May 10, 2007 2:24 PM

Elias:

I found a slightly less ambitious map put out by the Assyrian International News Agency:

http://www.aina.org/maps/assyrianregion.htm

The Assyrian region seems to be nestled right against the Kurdish areas of Turkey, Syria and Iraq. It's a difficult location, surrounded by hostiles. But the tide must be turned somewhere.

Posted by: Chatillon at May 10, 2007 3:16 PM

We can if they tell us where they are-without lieing and if they fight too!

Posted by: MZ at May 11, 2007 12:36 AM

hugh

Christians may find some greater protection in the Kurdish areas, both because the Christian population is larger, and because the Kurds are grateful, to the Infidel Americans who provided them with air-cover for a dozen years (1991-2003), and have done so much since to enable an autonomous Kurdistan to come into being, and whose support will be indispensable if that autonomous Kurdistan attempts to transform itself into an independent Kurdistan).

are you joking? you need to learn history better hugh the kurds have been the biggest killers of the assyrian christians in 1915 -1220 kurds massacred millions of assyrians under the ottomans orders even today the kurds still oppress the assyrians during the elections the kurds prevented the assyrians from goning out to vote there should not be a indenpendent islamic kurdistan there should be a independent christian assyria

Posted by: Greek Gurl at May 13, 2007 7:18 AM