"However, the Muslim birthrate is roughly three times higher than the nonMuslim one...."

From where does this apocalyptic assertion come: Mufti Abdul Barkatullah. I think it is safe to say that the Muslim fertility rate is high, but three times? Muslim statistics are frequently tinged with triumphalism, to shore up the faithful and intimidate the infidel into dhimmitude. If anyone is interested in the most well-researched debunking of Muslim demographic triumphalism, this site is fascinating:

www.pademographics.com

Posted by: Quijybo at June 5, 2007 6:37 PM

Correction: the part about birthrate is not quotes. There is no telling where it came from, but the article implied the ONS (Office of National Statistics). My whole post could be off base. You Anglo-Saxon types better start converting some people.

Posted by: Quijybo at June 5, 2007 6:41 PM

So can one replace "You don't know Jack s#!^" with "You don't know Mohammed s#!^"?

Also, did they only consider cases where Mohammed was the first name, or everything - where it could have been first or middle or last? Like Syed Mohammed Hassan, Syed Hassan Mohammed or Mohammed Hassan Sayyid? Once you do that sort of a scan, Mohammed is likely to win out, since you don't normally see Jack in middle names or last names.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at June 5, 2007 6:42 PM

I'm so happy.

Posted by: Ian at June 5, 2007 6:45 PM

I guess procreation is one thing they do good. How does mahamid Hooper or mahamid Seckington grab you? Get rid of those freaking librals!

Posted by: mustang65 at June 5, 2007 6:47 PM

Strike back!!

Name your new dog Mohammad. Call your dog often, by name. Let your neighbors hear and know. When they express curiosity, start talking.

Posted by: texan at June 5, 2007 7:04 PM

In Australia there used to be a tradition of calling the first born son Jack. Consequently almost everyone (including me) had an Uncle Jack. Maybe the Brits could revive the tradition.

Posted by: Brett_McS at June 5, 2007 8:01 PM

I hope they'll follow the Western tradition and use diapers rather than mugs or other drinking vessels to collect the copious outpourings from these tiny little Muhammads.

Posted by: jsla at June 5, 2007 8:18 PM

Who actually gives a toss? The fact that the 2. (Something or other percent) of Mohammedans in Britain are breeding like third world rabbits is absolutely meaningless, because it is a fact that birth rates for immigrants falls the longer they stay. The Wind Rush generation are now breeding at a rate below the white population.

Anyway there are more Christians coming here than Muslims. That’s great if you happen to be worried about Islamic dominance. Not so great for the people who like parts of Britain to be green though.

And so what if in fifty years they get to a position where the Muslim power nutters can swing the vote?

The president of Iran and the millions of nutters will have been neutralised by then (or we will).

I hate scaremongering, it’s so… Unconstructive.

Posted by: Mert at June 5, 2007 9:01 PM

Off topic:

Controversy At U Of M Dearborn

Ummah News Links

Posted by: ummahnewslinks at June 5, 2007 9:11 PM

This wont be a cause of concern for the British.

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at June 5, 2007 9:16 PM

"Name your new dog Mohammad. Call your dog often, by name. Let your neighbors hear and know. When they express curiosity, start talking."

Texan, you made me laugh. I needed that!!

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at June 5, 2007 9:19 PM

Especially female dogs.

Posted by: Prickzilla at June 5, 2007 9:21 PM

TURKEY: 'WAKE UP! YOU'LL NEVER BE PART OF E.U.' AUTHOR SAYS

"Rome, 5 June (AKI) - Author Feridun Zaimoglu is known as "the voice" of Germany's Turkish immigrant community. It is a reputation earned through fiction which has dealt with the sense of loss of identity loss but also discovery of new opportunities that so many tens of thousands of Zaimoglu's countrymen and women who left their native Turkey for a better life in Germany have experienced. His book of the same name, Kanak Sprack, the curious mix of German and Turkish spoken by the so-called "Gast-Arbeiters" or guest workers, has won cult status.

For someone so in tune with the fears and aspirations of Turks living in one of Europe's most advanced nations and its economic powerhouse, the 43-year old - 35 of which he spent in Germany - Zaimoglu depicts Turkeys' ambitions to join the European Union in the bleakest terms.

"Europe is a grand vision for Turkey, but those who had this dream have finally woken up and realised that the country will never enter the EU," Zaimoglu told Adnkronos International (AKI) in an interview in Rome. "

..more..http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level_English.php?cat=CultureAndMedia&loid=8.0.421995864&par=0

Posted by: Madduck at June 5, 2007 9:24 PM

Mert:

"Who actually gives a toss? The fact that the 2. (Something or other percent) of Mohammedans in Britain are breeding like third world rabbits is absolutely meaningless...

If you believe that an increase in Muslims in the UK is meaningless, then you are either blindly optimistic or hopelessly deluded. The UK's Muslim population is estimated at 2.5 million, or 4% of the population. Even at this relatively low figure, they are posing a threat to national security and civil order. What will it be like when they are 10%? 20%?

Mert:

"because it is a fact that birth rates for immigrants falls the longer they stay. The Wind Rush generation are now breeding at a rate below the white population."

Well, firstly, given that even the youngest of the Windrush generation are now well into their eighties, haven't they earned a rest? I know what you meant, but your analogy falls down. You're comparing the UK's overwhelmingly Christian West Indian-origin population with its Muslim one.

Black birthrates are declining (although black immigration is increasing) but Muslim birthrates are holding steady. My last two neighbours were both second generation Pakistani families - one had five kids, the other four. Take a trip to parts of London, or Birmingham, or Bradford, or any Luton, or any other Muslim stronghold, and you'll see primary and junior schools dominated by Muslim children. The next generation of the adult population will be very different from those previously, and Muslim numbers will increase exponentially from then on.

Mert:

"And so what if in fifty years they get to a position where the Muslim power nutters can swing the vote?"

Erm, Muslim voters can already "swing the vote" in a number of key constituencies. Why do you think that all the political parties are so keen to court them and so insistent on denying a link between Islam and terrorism?

Posted by: Matamoros at June 5, 2007 9:36 PM

Quijybo

I would believe that 3 times higher is an understatement-it's probably more like 4 or 5 times higher. Damn, they have like 4 wives and tons of kids. That one grandmother from Palistine who blew herself up had like 42 grandkids...crazy.

Posted by: mrockroll1969 at June 5, 2007 10:06 PM

From entering the top 30 in 2000 to #1 in 2007 is an amazing feat. With only a few booms and no shots fired. Credit needs to be given to those who have earned the recognition. How many Adolfs are there running around Great Britian?

Wars are fought over resources. This game ends and a new one begins when the money runs out.

Posted by: pez at June 5, 2007 10:18 PM

The birth name stats are not necessarily valid indications of increased percentage of Muslims. Of course the young Muslim population is increasing relative to the non-Muslim population--that's exactly what one would expect based on global averages--, but consider this bit of information that was reported near the end of the article:

"The leading name for girls born to Muslim parents in 2006 was Aisha, in 110th place."

In other words, stats for individual names as an indication of Muslim population increase are possibly useless, and possibly misleading. It would only make sense to use those names as indicators of Muslim population increase if (a) Muslims and non-Muslims had the same number of first names from which to choose for newborns, and (b) all such names in both groups had an equal probability of being used, i.e., flat distribution. Neither of these assumptions are met.

Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at June 5, 2007 10:43 PM

It would only make sense to use those names as indicators of Muslim population increase if (a) Muslims and non-Muslims had the same number of first names from which to choose for newborns, and (b) all such names in both groups had an equal probability of being used, i.e., flat distribution. Neither of these assumptions are met.

Rising from number less than 30 to number 1 is independent of both variables (a) and (b). The conditions existed whether the poll was taken in 1980 or 2007. Islam is thriving because of our Problem of Overproduction. It will continue to thrive until it has to compete with pensioners for the scraps.

Posted by: pez at June 5, 2007 11:07 PM

Oh, but muslims revere ALL the prophets. No idolitry allowed in islam. That's why they all name their second child Moses, Noah, Abraham or Jesus. To prove they don't idolize Mohammad. /sarc

pez- And when it has to compete with those pensioners for the scraps, who will win? The old who have no children to defend them? Or the young hords who will be running around attacking the helpless. There will be no pension to collect. What muslim country has government pensions?

Posted by: Borg at June 5, 2007 11:21 PM

Salamilicum...My name is Mohammad. This is my brother Mohammad, and my other brother Mohammad. These are my six cousins, Mohammad, Mohammad Mohammad, Mohammad, Mohammad, and Barnard, the runt of the litter. Bernie is an Imam. Abdallah Al-Bernie bin Mohammad. He had to become a imam so the other Mohammads would quit beating him up...

Posted by: duh_swami at June 5, 2007 11:27 PM

pez,

As I said, we already know the Muslim population, particularly the young, is increasing relative to the size of the non-Muslim population. I would guess that the increase in the name Muhammad probably reflects that to some extent. However, we cannot assume that the popularity of naming male babies Muhammad among Muslims is constant (your argument in favour of this name indicator at least requires proof of that), and for that matter we do not know that the popularity of the names in the non-Muslim comparison group are constant (your claim also requires proof of that). Therefore we cannot assume that it is a reliable measure of relative Muslim population increase from time 1 to time 2. That's another reason why this indicator is misleading.

It doesn't tell us the straightforward information that we want to know. It is a "cute" statistic that was probably selected to make a catchy headline (cf. Aisha = 110th).

Here is a more useful stat from the article:

"...the Muslim birthrate is roughly three times higher than the nonMuslim one."

Unfortunately they do not give the source.

Here is a somewhat better presentation, which was cited in the article, though it is out of date.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=961
"Muslim, Sikh and Hindu households in Great Britain are larger than households headed by someone of another religion. In 2001, households headed by a Muslim were largest, with an average size of 3.8 people, followed by households headed by Sikhs (3.6 people) and Hindus (3.2 people). A third of Muslim households (34 per cent) contained more than five people, as did 28 per cent of Sikh and 19 per cent of Hindu households."

"Jewish, Christian and Buddhist households were smaller – each with an average size of 2.3 people. These groups have an older age structure than the other religious groups, and contain a higher proportion of one-person households. Over 30 per cent of these households contained only one person, compared with between 13 and 15 per cent of Sikh, Hindu or Muslim households. […]"

"[…] Households headed by a Muslim are more likely than other households to contain children. Around two thirds (63 per cent) contained at least one dependent child in 2001, compared with around a quarter of Jewish (25 per cent) and Christian (27 per cent) households."

"Muslim households also contained the highest number of children. A quarter (25 per cent) of Muslim households contained three or more dependent children, compared with 14 per cent of Sikh, 7 per cent of Hindu, and 5 per cent of Christian households."
-----------------------

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=955

[Muslim population is also the youngest].
-----------------------

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=954
“Christianity is the main religion in Great Britain. There were 41 million Christians in 2001, making up almost three quarters of the population (72 per cent). This group included the Church of England, Church of Scotland, Church in Wales, Catholic, Protestant and all other Christian denominations.

People with no religion formed the second largest group, comprising 15 per cent of the population.

About one in 20 (5 per cent) of the population belonged to a non-Christian religious denomination.

Muslims were the largest religious group after Christians. There were 1.6 million Muslims living in Britain in 2001. This group comprised 3 per cent of the total population and over half (52 per cent) of the non-Christian religious population. [...]”

Purely for humour I have added this quote:

“No religion includes people who ticked 'None' at the religion question plus those who wrote in Jedi Knight, Agnostic, Atheist and Heathen and those who ticked 'Other' but did not write in any religion.”

Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at June 5, 2007 11:38 PM

From Texan:

"Name your new dog Mohammad. Call your dog often, by name. Let your neighbors hear and know. When they express curiosity, start talking."

Priceless. I see Isabell the crusader was tickled by it too.

Posted by: ewha1 at June 6, 2007 12:39 AM

"Muhammad to top boys’ names list"

That's great news! Celebrate diversity :)

Posted by: ~JehanZeb~ at June 6, 2007 1:36 AM

I'll just restate what Khaybar Oasis has already said (or intimated): non-Muslim children are spread over many different names. Muslim children are concentrated in a few names, Mohammed (or Muhammad or Mohammad etc.) being the most popular by far. It is their lack of diversity that skews this poll. This poll says more about the mentality and loyalty of the Muslims than about the raw number of immigrants.

Posted by: special_guest at June 6, 2007 2:06 AM

Muhammad is a beautiful name, masha'Allah.

Posted by: ~JehanZeb~ at June 6, 2007 2:15 AM

We have read here in OZ, that a muslim man was advertising for his second wife who he said he expected her to have many children, but she would be set up in her own home.. In the west we are not allowed to have many wives, and muslims will only marry one wife under our laws, but there is nothing to stop them marry another three under their sharia law.. which means that the other three wives are counted as solo mums getting the benifits of solo mums. Does this mean that we in effect are paying them to mutiply in massive numbers,, 4 wives 8 children per wife, equals 32 children, hmmmm. imagine the money this man would be getting from the government, no need to work eh.

Posted by: Gaye at June 6, 2007 2:58 AM

They love and follow their leader (Mohammad) so much that they want to name their children after him. Mohammad said and did many horrific things eg,...
Muslim:C9B1N33 “The Prophet said: ‘I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are protected.’”

Ishaq:578 “Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down.
Ishaq:588 “When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves.”

Tabari IX:22 “The Prophet continued to besiege the town, fighting them bitterly.”
Tabari IX:122 “Muhammad sent Uyaynah to raid The Banu Anbar. They killed some people and took others captive. Asma was one of the women taken prisoner.”

Tabari IX:123 “Muhammad sent an expedition to Ghalib and to the land of the Banu Murrah. The raid on Amr and Abi was sent to the valley of Idam. Another by Aslami was sent to Ghabah. And Abd al-Rahman was ordered by the Messenger to lead an army to the seashore.”

Tabari IX:69 “He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for those who disbelieve, we will fight them forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing them is a small matter to us.”

Muslim:C10B1N176 “Muhammad sent us in a raiding party. We raided Huraqat in the morning.

Ishaq:470 “We attacked them fully armed, swords in hand, cutting through heads and skulls.”

Qur’an 8:67 “It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”

Tabari VIII:116/Ishaq:511 “So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some people captive, including Safiyah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself.”

Qur’an 33:26 “Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before.”

Ishaq:576 “Allah and His servant overwhelmed every coward. Allah honored us and made our religion victorious. We were glorified and destroyed them all.

Qur’an 59:2 “It was Allah who drove the [Jewish] People of the Book from their homes and into exile. They refused to believe

Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their children and woman taken captive.”

Ishaq:326 “Allah said, ‘No Prophet before Muhammad took booty from his enemy nor prisoners for ransom.’ Muhammad said, ‘I was made victorious with terror.

Ishaq:587 “Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace.”

Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. and much, much more..
AND people say it is a religion of peace..
yep, sure is a great guy to follow and name your kids after..

Posted by: Gaye at June 6, 2007 3:11 AM

Muhammad is a beautiful name, masha'Allah.

So is Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot. That wretched name should be banned.

Posted by: savitch at June 6, 2007 3:16 AM

Quote

"Mufti Abdul Barkatullah, a former imam at the Finchley mosque in northwest London, said: “Parents who name their son Muhammad believe that the name has an effect on their personality and future characteristics. They are saying that this boy will be of good character".

Unquote

Yes just like Mohammed Attar (9/11 bomber) and the many others out there. All waiting for their chance to demonstrate their wonderful charachters modeled after the master prophet himself.

Posted by: jimmy at June 6, 2007 4:50 AM

Anyone in their right mind would not name a child after a serial rapist, thief, murderer, extortionist, and torturer. The fact that people do indicates that there is something seriously wrong with Muslims -- they are the bullies of the schoolyard, now amped with guns and bombs.

Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at June 6, 2007 5:10 AM

Anyone in their right mind would not name a child after a serial rapist, thief, murderer, extortionist, and torturer. The fact that people do indicates that there is something seriously wrong with Muslims -- they are the bullies of the schoolyard, now amped with guns and bombs.

Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at June 6, 2007 5:11 AM

Jesus is still popular with the Mexicans....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at June 6, 2007 6:14 AM

Well - this sort of attitude lead to facts like - my name is "Paul" along with the fact that my son's names are Adam, Simon and James ..

Maybe some of us in the western world are prepared to choose names for our children that express the fact that "parents like to have something that shows a link with their religion" - not to mention our history and culture

It also means that I would never, never, never name any of my children "Aisha" or "Mohammed" (however they are spelt)

Posted by: drk at June 6, 2007 7:07 AM

Assalamau Laikum all,

This is Allah's SWT flat earth policy in action.

We muslims are told not to have much faith in birth control...or that the earth resources are not available to feed everybody....Allah SWT shall provide.

If you need resources...follow the kaffur....it's as simple as that.

JehanZeb calls it Diversity...call it what you want...what's in a name.

Muslims are Allah's SWT favoured...in return we pray 5 times a day....tha kaffur does not....that means he (the kaffur) can get ahead of the game and do the necessary research and get the food...and we simply follow.

We can see that that is modus operandi of the kaffur...it is why Allah SWT created kaffur.

The kaffur can talk about the moral high ground...and music and art...Well these don't feed people...these are "free" time activities....this is because they do not have Allah SWT centrally placed in their lives....we don't need free time...we have prayer time.

Over only 2000 years the kaffur has lost Jesus...they have lost faith, christianity will be like a train disappearing in the distance...and you have missed it.

just remember...in 10years, 50years, 500years..Islam will be there...

Even if In 100-200 years the kaffur may leave earth to colonise new planets...wuslims will be there too...following the resources.....

kaffur = resources for Islam..no disgrace in this.

Posted by: Naseem at June 6, 2007 7:33 AM

Naseem,

While it is good that you are entering into a dialog of sorts with non-Muslims, I'm afraid you give the impression of being seriously brain-washed.

You only believe all this far-fetched nonsense about a mythical entity called Allah because someone else has told you to believe it.

If you had been born in Tel Aviv to a Jewish family, you would not believe in Allah. Similarly if you had been born in Tokyo to a Japanese family. Why does the existence of Allah depend on where you are born?

Look around you. Think. Question what you have been told. Make up your own mind based on what you see. Can you see Allah?

By the way, I don't believe in any divine being, whether you call it Allah, God, Jehovah or Nigel. As for praying, what good does that do? When have you ever received what you prayed for?

Posted by: watling at June 6, 2007 8:06 AM

"The kaffur can talk about the moral high ground...and music and art...Well these don't feed people...these are "free" time activities"

...what are Muslim free time activities?....

clandestine bomb assembly
Christian church raid planning
Preparation for honor killings
Negotiation of sale price for captured slaves
Research for material to use in vile internet blog responses.
Mapping out details on the next raid on icecream vendors or elderly rubber tree plantation workers
making decisions on which black burka to wear tomorrow
identifying new ways to conceal those music cds you have so that the religious police don't catch you with them
finding new clandestine ways to smuggle drugs to the western world ... drugs which are used to destroy the minds of young people....
creating ingenious ways to deliver chemical and biological weapons....
discovering that your life in todays world is actually the same as your ancestors of 1400 years ago...primitive and violent...
spending time making thank you cards to send to your local Islamic cleric for his role in eliminating the Non Muslims in your neighborhood...
spending time teaching your children that the world is flat, and that music and art offer no enjoyment in their miserable lives...and that pain and death offered by Islam does...

and so many other things that make Islamic life so enjoyable...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at June 6, 2007 8:37 AM

The more I read posts made by Naseem the more I get the feeling that she is not 'real'.
The feeling that she is just a fellow kaffir who is taking the concept of consistent satire to new heights if you know what I mean.

Or maybe she is just fricken' nuts.

Posted by: I<3Crusades at June 6, 2007 9:23 AM

A few years ago in England there was a protest by Muslims about a police dog who was called Ali and his name became known because this dog had got some publicity in the media about something connected with his work.
In reality his name was 'Ally' which was an abbreviation for Alexander but the Muslims protested it would offend their ears and insult Mohammad's son-in-law if they heard a dog being called Ali.
By this criterion I am surprised they haven't protested at such geographical descriptions as Pope's Head Alley in the City of London and Tin Pan Alley in Soho.
In this earliest example of dhimmitude I can recall involving a British police force, the dog handler-policeman was ordered to change the dog's name. Although it was something that was chosen to be acceptable to Muslims, I can't now recall what the new name was. (Pershing would have been nice....)
The matter blew over fairly quickly in the media - but not for me - for me it was the first sign of an on-going enfeeblement and retreat from duty by the British forces of law and order in the face of infantile but menacing Muslim demands.

Posted by: moris at June 6, 2007 9:44 AM

Assalamau Laikum Watling,

You ask "If you had been born in Tel Aviv to a Jewish family, you would not believe in Allah. Similarly if you had been born in Tokyo to a Japanese family. Why does the existence of Allah depend on where you are born?"

This is a good question...but it does not change your "takdeer". Please cast your mind back when you were in your mother's womb...at that time you were in contact with your lord..Allah SWT...and you were clenching your fists...kicking out in frustration ...pleading with Allah SWT to allow you to be born...that you WILL follow his holy edict...(your mother on the other hand.... foolishly interpetered the kicks as "My ...isn't young watling excited today...must have been the red wine last followed by the cigaratte I had...alcoholic already...well let him start young...what?)".

After you were born...YOU did a really bad thing....(no! not pee on your mother)...you forgot Allah SWT. Ofcourse this is partially your parents fault as parents pollute...they did not teach you about Allah...or worse ...took you on the path of christianity....Allah SWT has now given you the opportunity to get back to him....USE IT.

I

Dawa is a serious business...interpetraion of events from an Islamic viewpoint ...may seem daft to you...but all important for me...Allah's flat earth policy is at stake here.

Posted by: Naseem at June 6, 2007 9:50 AM

Naseem - Allah TNT is a device to scare you into compliance. Allah TNT is the 'monster in the closet'. You think that something all-knowing and all-powerful, eternal and holy would care what hand you use to wipe your ass? Or that same all-powerful creator of the material universe would keep count of the times you bow and scrape in the dirt each day?

Why would Allah TNT need your approval? Why would he allow other people to kill you if you somehow failed to meet His needs for constant ego-stroking submission? No 'God' would need that. A 'God' would grow tired of all the pointless ritual offerings and compulsive bowing and all that bullshit. Even human rulers would grow tired of it - just think of an eternal spiritual being??!!!

Allah and his commands are counter productive to human growth, pointless to an eternal being, inconsistent, irrational and illogical ( therefore imperfect) and some are outright stupid. All of which sounds like something dreamed up by a man.

Allah is the slave of Mohammed - not the other way around. Look at who changes the rules for whom.... verrrrrrrrrrrry interesting..........

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at June 6, 2007 10:05 AM

As-salaamu alay-kum Naseem.

Kayfa Haal-ak? Well, I don't remember being in my mother's womb but I'm sure I did some kicking like all babies do.

You're right about my being taken "on the path of christianity" but as soon as I was able to think for myself I realised that religion was just brain-washing. Phew!

But in any case, why does anyone need to be taught about Allah? Does he only exist if you are taught about him?

Presumably if the human race ceased to exist then so would Allah because there would be no-one to believe in him.

By the way, my mother never smoked but does enjoy a glass or two of red wine.

Posted by: watling at June 6, 2007 10:16 AM

Naseem , you state:

"Over only 2000 years the kaffur has lost Jesus...they have lost faith, Christianity will be like a train disappearing in the distance..."

Not that I've ever been tempted to respond to your comments before but, after some thought upon this proposition, I do draw one conclusion:

You really had better hope not.

I am not a Christian myself. However, one thing I do know is that the morals and standards that we in the West generally agree are worthy of aspiring to even in this modern age, are those that have been developed over millennia of Judeo/Christian heritage and tradition. Without the moral and humanistic framework that has been developed from those traditions, then from where comes our moral guidance?

What do we have to tell us that enslaving or annihilating vast numbers of brown people for sport is morally reprehensible?

Where is the inner voice that tells us that we must rise above violence and savagery, seeking to build and create rather than corrupt and destroy?

No, Naseem. I'd suggest you hope very much that Western faith remains strong. The last thing you want is us regressing to the point before we found faith's guidance.

We were a really nasty bunch back then and, as you say, we Kaffur 'do the necessary research'.

Let me rephrase that slighly: Who has all the hardware and technology to make your world a nightmare if they should suddenly lose the moral guidance that says 'This would not be right'.

Posted by: Wishbone at June 6, 2007 10:19 AM

Hey Naseem... I'd like you to meet JehanZeb.

JehanZeb.... This is Naseem. I think you two have alot in common.

Posted by: Abrog8 at June 6, 2007 11:24 AM

So, now the prophecy

and they shall be as thorns in your eyes and as thistles in your sides... and they shall persecute you on the land in which you already live

Posted by: US_infidel at June 6, 2007 11:25 AM

"In arab countries, the name is said (mohamid) when you don't know the name of someone" My U.K. boy friend tends to say "that's-----." I'v been inclined to say that's -------. Now I'm reeling toward "that's arabian." How about, nice to meet you. I'm so and so, and your name?

Posted by: mustang65 at June 6, 2007 11:33 AM

Naseem says that muslims are parasites on the kaffir. Like worms, mites, and leeches, he is proud of his role: sucking off the works of others.

Posted by: mountainecho at June 6, 2007 11:47 AM

In arab countries, the name is said (mohamid) when you don't know the name of someone" My U.K. boy friend tends to say "that's-----." I'v been inclined to say that's -------. Now I'm reeling toward "that's arabian." How about, nice to meet you. I'm so and so, and your name?

Posted by: mustang65

Mustang65 - I just use the name Abu Shakha Da, which literally means 'the guy with the piss' or just another infantile guy who can't control himself and his urges.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at June 6, 2007 1:35 PM

"Name your new dog Mohammad."
--from poster above

I couldn't do that to my dog.

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at June 6, 2007 2:01 PM

Celebrate diversity:

Mahomet
Muhamad
Muhammad
Muhamed
Muhammad
Mohamet
Mahmoud
Mohammad
Mohammed
Mohamed
Muhomet

Posted by: Ynkedoodl2 at June 6, 2007 2:17 PM

Not alot of intellect here but notice;

Muhamad
Muhammad
Muhamed
Muhammad
Mohamet
Mohammad
Mohammed
Mohamed

Maybe that's why Mo hated pigs so much. Kids probably teased him in school.

Posted by: Abrog8 at June 6, 2007 2:28 PM

Naseem wrote:
"If you need resources...follow the kaffur....it's as simple as that."

This is an important statement, a rarity, from Naseem. Naseem speaks the truth absolutely in this regard. Knowing full well that Islam and it's adherents create nothing and can not sustain their own, they are forced to take from others. This is a direct immitation of Muhammad's life in the desert, taking from others in order to survive. This Islamic mindset has been perpetuated throughout history. It is a central point, to justify the less-than-reputable actions of Islamists, justified specifically by creating a God that compels Muslims to act as such.

Naseem also wrote:
"We can see that that is modus operandi of the kaffur...it is why Allah SWT created kaffur."

Naseem is suggesting that due to lackadaisical prayer practices by the kuffar, that they can "get ahead" and obtain the resources need to sustain human society. Naseem suggests that Allah did this specifically, created intelligent, ambitious kuffar slaves to support the inert Muslim populous. Once the kuffar has completed it's duty to Muslims, Muslims take it as their rightful spoils, again a direct reference to Muhammad's existence, perpetuated through time as stated above.

Naseem, again wrote:
"The kaffur can talk about the moral high ground...and music and art...Well these don't feed people...these are "free" time activities"

Here is the first appearance of Naseem's illogical thinking in her post. Free time activities of the kuffar similarly spent as time passed in prayer by Islamists certainly do not feed people. Unfortunately, Islam itself does not directly feed people either. In addition, the kuffar does manage to enjoy free time activities AND provide the resources that Islamists need to survive, a feat that obviously Islamists are incapable of. Naseem said just that earlier in her post. She said Muslims need only follow the kuffar for resources. Whether intended or not, Naseem has admitted to Muslim inferiority when compared to the abilities of the kuffar, intended as such of course, by Allah. Odd cognitions, to say the least.

Just for grins and giggles, let us fast forward in time to the future, a place where hypothetically Allah has managed to remove all other ideologies, leaving only Muslims as inhabitants on this Earth, a sentiment found in the Qur'an and a duty to all Muslims. Would you see peace? Would you see harmony? Equality? Sustenance for all?.......Impossible.

Without the kuffar to think and do and provide for the Muslims, what are they to do? Would Allah then change their attitudes? Certainly not. Allah's mandates are unchangeable, unless of course he changes his mind again, as was seen in the past. It would be chaos, a world where Muslim would turn against Muslim in an attempt to obtain the resources they need for sustenance, knowing full-well that they are unable to do so themselves. Without a party to exploit, Islam would absolutely implode.

It would be Arabic Muslims against, "Wuslims", as Naseem derogatorily likes to refer to them as, contrary to the Dawa she professes here, of equality,ultimately deteriorating and becoming the exact thing that Islam is supposedly distinct from. It would be the battle of who is forced to provide and who is deemed as rightful to take, for Islam needs to exploit to survive, and as we all know, the Qur'an doesn't feed people.

When I read Naseem's posts, I can't help but feel pity. It is difficult to not be sympathetic to someone who is so lost, whose life is bereft of true happiness, a person and a people who take pride in slavery to a vengeful deity. I can almost shed a tear for her...almost.

I pray that Islam does not get it's wish, not only for sake of the kuffar, but for Muslims as well. I can honestly say that Naseem and her ilk have absolutely no idea the fallacious ruin that will ensue should they ever achieve the end they so desire.

Pity.

Posted by: awake at June 6, 2007 2:30 PM

On the subject of demographics

Some statistics taken from the CIA World factbook

Israel

Birth rate:
17.71 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)

Total fertility rate:
2.38 children born/woman (2007)

France

Birth rate:
12.91 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)

1.98 children born/woman (2007 est.)

United Kingdom

10.67 births/1,000 population (2007 est.)

1.66 children born/woman (2007 est.)

Looks like Jewish mothers should be the role models for western ladies.

Posted by: Odyessus at June 6, 2007 3:11 PM

The Office of National Statistics are 10th rate statisticians employed by the British government to con the public. They specialise in "fixing" politically difficult figures.

A couple of weeks ago they had to admit that their figures for immigration to Britain were grossly underestimated, how did they compile them? They asked every 5th person arriving at the three main airports in the south of England how long they intended to stay in Britain. If they said for more than year they were counted as an immigrant.

They did not count anyone coming into the dozens of minor airports that have opened up and the last 10 years never mind other major airports in the North of the England. Nor did they count the thousands coming in by the sea. They also believed all the people who said they didn't intend to stay more than a year were telling the truth. How dumb can anyone get?

150 years ago a British prime minister observed that there were lies, damn lies and statistics. Now we have idiots, hopeless idiots and the Office of National Statistics.

Or should it be liars, the Blair government and the Office of National Statistics?

Posted by: Fred at June 6, 2007 5:34 PM

“Islamization of Britain Alert: "Muhammad to top boys’ names list,"

It is not surprising that this is so, because Muslims have a far smaller range of names than non-Muslims. It is as though Christians could only name their (male) children John, Peter, Mark or Michael, and is irrelevant to the real question – the rate of increase of Muslims compared with the rest of the population. So let’s stop getting all het up about this red herring, and concentrate on real issues.

Posted by: JFGR at June 6, 2007 7:07 PM

Maybe it is time to stop blaming Moslems for having babies. Maybe it is time we sent an apology to Pope Paul VI--who was villified and insulted--for prophetically warning that stifling or killing human life is the way to disaster--as is demographically happening in large parts of "Christian" Europe today.
If millions upon millions of Christian babies had not been denied life there would be no jobs or residences for Moslems to immigrate to.
We live in community. And probably nothing more affects a community than people having or not having children. No or few children in a community and a community has no future.Reproductive Laws and customs of virtually all societies in the past were based on this. It is only we Western "moderns" who are so ignorant as to look on childbirth as having only an individual rights aspect.

Posted by: Deacon John M. Bresnahan at June 6, 2007 8:17 PM

Shaheen is just another victim that bent over to be raped by that pedophile schizophrenic mohammed's creation that is islam.

Keep it up Shaheen, maybe if you think there are 72 virgins waiting for you won't rape our women like so many other Muslims flooding the West.

Posted by: Isamisevil at June 6, 2007 8:56 PM

"Muhammad is a beautiful name, masha'Allah.

So is Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot. That wretched name should be banned.

Posted by: savitch "

I think that this wretched name should be annihilated.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at June 7, 2007 2:24 AM

As pointed out by "awake" , naseem has just admitted that muslims are a terminally inept people: can't create much and need the non muslim to sponge off:

They're also aware of just how lost they'd be without the infidel - to feed , clothe , tie their shoes , wipe their arse - and yet despite all this , they are a bloody arroagant bunch of wankers.

Posted by: ewha1 at June 7, 2007 3:13 AM

Assalamau Laikum ewha1,

You say "As pointed out by "awake" , naseem has just admitted that muslims are a terminally inept people: can't create much and need the non muslim to sponge off":

Well we all know that is not completely true...there are many examples in nature which have this type of interdependence role.

Bees, birds ..pollinate plants...in return for sustainance.

Allah has created the kaffur as the busy bee in helping to partially sustain the muslim....in return we offer you Dua...pointing you to your creator and providence...helping you to try to become one of us...one of the elite.

For this you should be eternally grateful...not hating us...this is an inter-dependence relationship.

Posted by: Naseem at June 7, 2007 4:26 AM

People are FREE to adopt the name they want. I don't really understand where the problem is?? Can someone explain.

Posted by: Jack at June 7, 2007 7:55 AM

You know, some people will get heart attacks from being islamophic..... live a healthy life and don't pollute your little brains with racist thoughts...

The world is inceasingly becoming a large village and NO ONE can stop it.

There are now Poles, Romanians, Bulgarians, etc. coming to Britain, as well as Muslims and others.

It works both ways. I was reading that as house prices have soared in Spain and Greece, more Brits are buying houses in Morocco to settle there. Always ginving the only example of Saudi Arabis is misleading.

So, get real and leave your prejudices aside. The only safeguard against turning our societies into zones of confrontation is to keep the law above all and learn about tolerance and friendship.

My next door neighbours are Muslims (they have been for the last 6 years), and they are fantastic citizens.. law obedient, clean and honest. I wish some other people in the neighbourhood were like them.

Posted by: Jack at June 7, 2007 8:08 AM

Naseem wrote:
"For this you should be eternally grateful...not hating us...this is an inter-dependence relationship."

Interdependence implies mutually depending on each other. This is not the case here.

While the West, specifically America, was growing and evolving into it's current existence, the Dawa that Naseem is implying had absolutely no contribution to that whatsoever, thankfully.

Naseem's suggestion is preposterous.

Jack wrote:
"You know, some people will get heart attacks from being islamophic..... live a healthy life and don't pollute your little brains with racist thoughts..."

Nick Berg and Daniel Pearl are two fine examples of people who should have been more Islamaphobic. It might have actually contributed to a longer healthier life. Their hearts were still going strong right up to the point their heads were sawed off by the Islamists.

And Islam is not a race Jack, for your information. I don't know you but I'll try to "read" you from one post. You live in Europe, have no more than one child, if any, living in multicultural society, ethnically diverse, a place that encourages immigration to sustain your high-cost social welfare programs to offset the dearth of replacement people indigenous to where you live historically.

How did I do? Care to clue me in where I erred. Please do take care to speak clearly and don't use too many big words for my "little" brain can't handle them.

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: awake at June 7, 2007 9:03 AM

awww Jack, I was hoping you would respond.

By the way, I was just kidding about the profile. Your affiliation with Islam is obvious, "Jack".

Posted by: awake at June 7, 2007 11:11 AM

Sorry Matamoras but your either disingenuous or plain daft. Obviously the Wind Rush are old, the figures apply to their children and grandchildren. Not rocket science to understand that one so I have to say you was mouthing for the sake of it.

As for the Muslim domination of Britain, please explain why the vote is being swung by Muslim voters in 2007?

The CIA claims that Islam stands at 2.7%. in Britain. Are the CIA wrong or you? And how does 2.7% hold a democracy to ransom?

Get a brain and jump off the blame train, you'll be burning witches next.

Posted by: Mert at June 7, 2007 7:01 PM

awake
"You live in Europe, have no more than one child, if any, living in multicultural society, ethnically diverse, a place that encourages immigration to sustain your high-cost social welfare programs to offset the dearth of replacement people indigenous to where you live historically"

then you said: How did I do? Care to clue me in where I erred.

You think you are smart? You just proved quite the opposite. Actually, I have four lovely children and I live in an area overwhelmigly white.
For your information, according to numerous UK studies, immigrants, especially Asians, make a huge contribution to the welfare of the country. They are not buggers. They work hard and earn their living. Same with other immigrants. As long as people obey the law and earn their living with honesty.. they are welcome.

You also wrote: "Your affiliation with Islam is obvious, "Jack"."

I have a name, not like you "awake". Why do you hide behind a pseudoname? My real name is Jack, WHY would I hide it? why would you hide even your first name?

From your writing, I am 100% certain you are Jewish. Your aim is to create a rift between Christians and Muslims.... I have seen it in other forums.

How did I do? who is smarter now?

Posted by: Jack at June 8, 2007 10:05 AM

Priceless post there , "JACK"

"I am 100% certain you are Jewish. Your aim is to create a rift between Christians and Muslims....

So, it's thu Jooooooooooooooooooz wot iz tu blam izzit?

ARF

Posted by: ewha1 at June 9, 2007 7:25 AM