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Time Out London thinks it'll be just great to be a dhimmi, explaining why in "Is London's future Islamic?" (thanks to all who sent this in):
It’s the capital’s fastest growing religion, based on noble traditions and compassionate principles, yet Islam can still be tainted by mistrust and misunderstanding. Here Time Out argues that an Islamic London would be a better place[...]
Public health
On the surface, Islamic health doesn’t look good: the 2001 census showed that 24 per cent of Muslim women and 21 per cent of Muslim men suffered long-term illness and disability. But these are factors of social conditions rather than religion. In fact, Islam offers Londoners potential health benefits: the Muslim act of prayer is designed to keep worshippers fit, their joints supple and, at five times a day, their stomachs trim. The regular washing of the feet and hands required before prayers promotes public hygiene and would reduce the transmission of superbugs in London’s hospitals.
Alcohol is haram, or forbidden, to Muslims. As London is above the national average for alcohol-related deaths in males, with 17.6 per 100,000 people (Camden has 31.6 per 100,000 males), turning all the city’s pubs into juice bars would have a massive positive effect on public health. Forbid alcohol throughout the country, and you’d avoid many of the 22,000 alcohol-related deaths and the £7.3 billion national bill for alcohol-related crime and disorder each year.
Ecology
‘The world is green and beautiful,’ said the prophet Muhammad, ‘and Allah has appointed you his guardian over it.’ The Islamic concept of halifa or trusteeship obliges Muslims to look after the natural world and Muhammad was one of the first ever environmentalists, advocating hima – areas where wildlife and forestry are protected. So we could expect more public parks under Islam, but halifa also applies to recycling: in 2006, 12,000 Muslims attended a series of sermons at the East London Mosque explaining the theological evidence for a link between behaving in an environmentally sustainable way and the Islamic faith.
Education
Presently, Muslim students perform less well than non-Muslim students. In inner London, 37 per cent of 16 to 24-year-old Muslims have no qualifications (the figure for the general population of the same age and location is 25 per cent). When it comes to university education the picture is equally gloomy: 16 to 24-year-old Muslims are half as likely to have degree level or above qualification than other inner London young people.
Again, social factors rather than religion have led to this state of affairs. Young Muslims in London are often of south Asian origin and therefore more likely to live in households where English is not the first language, more likely to encounter racism (both intentional and unintentional) during their education, and more likely to suffer from poverty and bad housing conditions.
But Tahir Alam, education spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain, claims Muslim children do better in their own faith schools than in the mainstream state sector: ‘Muslim schools have their own distinct ethos. They use the children’s faith and heritage as primary motivators to provide the backdrop for their education and behaviour. This ethos is consistent with the messages that children are getting at home, so it is a very coherent operation between the home and the school.’
If Islam became the dominant religion in London the same ethos could be applied to schooling across swathes of underprivileged and deprived areas of the city. This could have a revolutionary effect on educational achievement and, perhaps just as importantly, general levels of discipline and self-respect among London’s young people. While controversy rages over faith schools, there are 37 Muslim schools in London. As of 2004, only five were state schools, but there is growing pressure to bring more into the state sector which, according to Alam, will ‘help raise achievement for many sectors of the Muslim community. Many private Muslim schools are under-resourced and if they can be brought into the state sector this valuable experience can be extended to more children.’
Food
Application of halal (Arabic for ‘permissable’) dietary laws across London would free us at a stroke from our addiction to junk food, and the general adoption of a south Asian diet rich in fruit juice, rice and vegetables with occasional mutton or chicken would have a drastic effect on obesity, hyperactivity, attention deficit disorders and associated public health problems. As curry is already Londoners’ and the nation’s favourite food (see our Brick Lane food feature), it would be a relatively easy process to encourage the adoption of such a diet. Not eating would be important as well. The annual fasting month of Ramadan instils self-discipline, courtesy and social cohesion. And Londoners would benefit philosophically and physically from even a short period when we weren’t constantly ramming food into our mouths.
Inter-faith relations
In an Islamic London, Christians and Jews – with their allegiance to the Bible and the Talmud – would be protected as ‘peoples of the book’.
As long as they pay protection money, that is.
Hindus and Sikhs manage to live alongside a large Muslim population in India, so why not here? Although England has a long tradition of religious bigotry against, for instance, Roman Catholics, it is reasonable to assume that under the guiding hand of Islam a civilised accommodation could be made among faith groups in London. This welcoming stance already exists in the capital in the form of the City Circle (see Yahya Birt interview), which encourages inter-faith dialogue and open discussion.Arts
Some of the finest art in London is already Islamic. The Jameel Gallery at the V&A houses ‘ceramics, textiles, carpets, metalwork, glass and woodwork, which date from the great days of the Islamic caliphate of the eighth and ninth century’ up until the turn of the last century. Or take a free daily tour of the Addis Gallery of Islamic art (at the British Museum). London-based Nasser David Khalili, an Iranian-born Jew, has amassed what is considered to be the world’s largest private collection of Islamic art. Islamic influences have also flourished in other areas of the arts, with novelists, comedians (Birmingham-born Shazia Mirza was an instant hit on the London circuit), and music (from rappers Mecca2Medina on, to the less in-your-face Yusuf Islam).
Or you could take in a lovely stoning, or amputation.
Social justice Each Muslim is obliged to pay zakat, a welfare tax of 2.5 per cent of annual income, that is distributed to the poor and the needy. If the working population of London, 5.2 million, was predominantly Muslim this would produce approximately £3.2bn each year. More importantly, everyone would be obliged to consider those Londoners who haven’t shared their good fortune. London would become a little less cruel.
Except for the small matter of those jizya payments, but who's counting?
Race relationsUnder Islam all ethnicities are equal. Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim – it doesn’t matter what colour you are. End of story.
Yes, but it matters very much whether or not you are an Arab.
Posted by Robert at June 7, 2007 4:27 PM
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What utter balderdash. Methinks (and I can prove it) that the Lord God Jehovah thought up all of these "good" points and put them in His Word long before old Mo came along.
What is the way to make a counterfeit successful? Just try to be as close to the real thing as possible, enough to fool dumb people.
I wish more people had been taught critical thinking in school. The ignorance among westerners of OUR culture and OUR traditions is abysmal, which leads these morons to tell us that Islam is somehow superior to Christianity, and you actually have some who believe it.
My momma didn't raise no dummy.
Posted by: Stand fast in the liberty![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at June 7, 2007 5:26 PM
If it were in my power to do so, I would give this "michael hodges" a one-way ticket to riyadh so he can enjoy the blessings of islam for the rest of his days, and never allow him to set foot in the UK again.
Posted by: Infidel33 at June 7, 2007 5:30 PM
No Brit can be that stupid to write this piece. It's beyond any likelihood.
So there are two possibilities left:
1. It's a rather crude piece of satire (or brilliant, if you consider the hundreds of angry people who were taken in);
2. "Michael Hodges" is actually a Muslim with limited thinking, propaganda and writing skills.
at June 7, 2007 5:30 PM
I really think the people who are writing this kind of nonsense try to provoke a civil war.
Posted by: DrWolffenstein at June 7, 2007 5:39 PM
I assume that they are being sarcastic!
Posted by: Voltaire at June 7, 2007 5:43 PM
ovidius_naso: yep, at a first (goggle-eyed and open-mouthed) reading it does indeed seem to be a p*ss-take. But after hunting around the site of the magazine a bit, you have to conclude that it's genuine: the current issue contains other encomiums of Islam and Muslim life in the capital; the cover of the print edition is a lovely Islamic green, with (presumably) a translation of the article title into Arabic.
One commenter on the article had a particularly apt turn of phrase for the whole sorry spectacle: 'multiculturalism at wit's end'.
Posted by: Dane at June 7, 2007 5:45 PM
They publish a nightlife.. er.. juice bar guide here in New York.
I will NEVER again buy this filthy toilet paper rag!
I want everyone to know that Timeout publishes in many cities worldwide.
BOYCOTT!!
Posted by: Allahfanculo at June 7, 2007 6:01 PM
In fact, Islam offers Londoners potential health benefits: the Muslim act of prayer is designed to keep worshippers fit, their joints supple and, at five times a day, their stomachs trim. The regular washing of the feet and hands required before prayers promotes public hygiene and would reduce the transmission of superbugs in London’s hospitals.
Who OWNS this rag??!! Jes doin' sum tinkin'...
The question is: does islam offer any MENTAL health benefits?
I think we all know the answer to that!
And speaking of public hygiene.. every take a NYC yellow cab in summer.. a cab driven by a bearded mahometan??!!
You have NO idea what you are missing until you try it! Hygiene.. damn these writers are stupid in their ivory towers..
Posted by: Allahfanculo at June 7, 2007 6:07 PM
Lol have you read the comments. 222 so far, the first page of 15 had not a single positive comment.
Heres a sample:
"This article has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read. And I grade essays written by college freshmen for a living. One could spend hours refuting the ridiculous fallacies and revealing omissions that abound in this pile of tripe, but I have to assume that Mr. Hodges is mentally handicapped in some way, and thus such mockery would be in bad taste."
Posted by: BlowHammed at June 7, 2007 6:15 PM
ovidius_naso:
No Brit can be that stupid to write this piece. It's beyond any likelihood.
They exist, unfortunately.
In America you would call them "Democrats".
It is just more blinkered liberal crap.
But what I find exciting is all the comments.
Not all of them are Brits.
But many are and it shows that true understanding of Islam is making headway. I am encouraged.
at June 7, 2007 6:19 PM
Golly gee billy! Let me take off my rose colored, night visioned goggles. The knights in shining armour have checkered red and black cloths over their face!
Posted by: mustang65 at June 7, 2007 6:28 PM
The mother of all moonbats.
A wankers wanker.
Hodges is the result of our degenerated valueless society. The product of multiculti-diversity 'all cultures are equal'- and -'who-are-we-to-judge' lunacy.
No wonder the Muhammedans believe we are degenerated and ready for the takeover.
What is it with journo's that they seem generally to be so far out of line?
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at June 7, 2007 6:32 PM
UK Infidel Lover:
"In fact, Islam offers Londoners potential health benefits: the Muslim act of prayer is designed to keep worshippers fit, their joints supple and, at five times a day, their stomachs trim. The regular washing of the feet and hands required before prayers promotes public hygiene and would reduce the transmission of superbugs in London’s hospitals."
If this fragment isn't the most obvious piece of tongue-in-cheek proposition in the article, then I must have wasted precious years of my youth with Swift beside my bed, on top of a pile of 5 or six others.
I'm going to grow a regulation Islamic beard as a sign of contrition for my error.
at June 7, 2007 6:36 PM
Heaven forbid, the UK without pubs. What a travesty!
Posted by: callmeinfidel at June 7, 2007 6:44 PM
On a related note, someone recently remarked to me that it wouldn't really be all that bad if France was ruled by Muslims.
Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at June 7, 2007 7:01 PM
Callmeinfidel; here here!
Posted by: mustang65 at June 7, 2007 7:05 PM
I have just posted this comment in the comments section of the article. There are about 250 comments most of them a little bit more vitriolic than mine. What they do show is the contempt the normal Brit feels towards this blatant attempt to pull the wool over there eyes.
This has got to be a satire, it can't be anything else. If it isn't, then you must think that the aboriginals of this sceptered island are thick. You have at least got to be an intellectual to believe this political correct rubbish. Islamic Utopia that really is something to aim for. I am sorry but I can hardly stop laughing. Who are you trying to convince, yourself, it is certainly not the Aboriginals? You are making this Newspaper a laughing stock, and if you continue in this vein people wont even use it to wipe there backsides with, because it is too full of Bullshit in the first place. I am certainly not an intellectual, I am just an ordinary chap that you see riding on the top of a Clapham omnibus, but I am not a fool, so don't insult my intelligence. If this vision comes about we will resemble all the other 57 failed islamic lands, who when they have a problem run for the shelter of Gods little helper, the Koran. The statistics I am going to now quote are not my own but a Muslim scholar. The total no, of books translated into Arabic over the last 1,400 years do not amount to the no, translated into Spanish every year. Jews make up 15,000,000 people and have won 167 Nobel prizes muslims make up 1,300,000,000 people have won only 8. Take away the oil income and the gross national product of all the Islamic lands equal only the Gross national product of Spain and the value of there exports with Finland. I could go on but let me finish with on one point to show how inadequate Islam is. There is at the moment a circus traveling around Britain, an exhibition called 1001 Islamic inventions paid for by the British taxpayer. Here is the link
http://www.1001inventions.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.viewSection&intSectionID=309
Please read it, most of the claims are false but who cares, it is good propaganda, until you realize that Edison had nearly 2,000 patents to his name, Tesla 700, that is apart from all the other thousands of patents that have come out of the west that have transformed to world. Let me give you a taste of all the western inventions and then compare them with the very important Islamic ones like coffee and the three course meal. The steam engine, transistor, electric generator, electric motor, Portland cement, the airplane. I could carry on for several more chapters, I think I have made my point. Don't bullshit
at June 7, 2007 7:06 PM
I'm shocked the author didn't mention the benefits of having all the women walking around in hefty bags improving the overall moral character of the city. The bags will, after all, do double duty as raincoats.
"More importantly, everyone would be obliged to consider those Londoners who haven’t shared their good fortune. London would become a little less cruel."
I think all the beaten annd maritally raped women would disagree with this statement. The honor-killings victims, of course, could not respond.
at June 7, 2007 7:18 PM
lol Sorry, I couldn't read it all.
It's a social not religiuos problem, dontcha know?
Posted by: mrockroll1969 at June 7, 2007 7:31 PM
Holger Dansker:
Thank you.
Very important.
I posted as well.
at June 7, 2007 7:43 PM
I know it is off-topic but here is the Russians taking steps to reduce the number of immigrants:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6731059.stm
and some of them will be Muslims from the Central Asian countries
Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at June 7, 2007 7:45 PM
I agree; this is either a not-particularly clever satire or the work of someone with severe brain damage who has somehow, due to an editorial oversight, been allowed near a computer in a newspaper office. I must say I prefer to believe the former. Hasn't anyone read Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal?" While hardly of Swift's calibre, style-wise it is quite imitative.
Posted by: angloirishslav at June 7, 2007 7:52 PM
the time out magazine has a gay section. muslims are against homosexuality. so how does time out think an islamic london would be great?
Posted by: leonthepigfarmer at June 7, 2007 7:59 PM
One wonder's why South Asian Muslims suffer racism but South Asian Hindus do not. South Asians do very well in education even if the home language isn't English. (Of course I am judging from the experience of South Asians in the US, but since racism in the US has been a long time problem, if it existed in this instance, it would show up in the US also).
What utter rot.
at June 7, 2007 8:14 PM
Not funny enough for satire.
Not funny at all if real.
Even mock-pablum needs some substance.
(72 raisins per serving, at least.)
The article forgot to mention how nice and spacious museums will be after all of the Norman Rockwell-y "representational art" - from Praxiteles to Picasso- is destroyed to conform with strict Mohammedan iconclasm.
The piece also failed to touch on the many new trends that would be appear under Sharia Law ... as beaches became sex-segregated... gays were executed... and all non-Islamic music outlawed.
What a peaceful place it will be.
A nice, quiet, clean, well-tiled asylum.
A Mecca for submission.
Posted by: profitsbeard at June 7, 2007 8:16 PM
This comes from "TimeOut London." It should be called "LightsOut London."
Some of us still can remember a different London . . . sans Musulmanes.
Posted by: unicorns62000 at June 7, 2007 8:36 PM
Folks, I am dead certain that this article is what's called a "troll" in Internet forum lingo -- a post intended to stir up an outraged response. TimeOut London is primarily an entertainment magazine, which carries listings of nightclubs, pubs, concerts, gallery openings, restaurants, and the like. Needless to say, its purpose would be completely erased in a true Londonistan (and its editors and writers probably erased as well).
If I'm right, the real intent behind the article is quite clever -- a wake up call to ordinarily passive readers about the danger of Islam metastasizing in their midst. From the comments posted so far, it looks like it's succeeded.
Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at June 7, 2007 8:58 PM
On the surface, Islamic health doesn’t look good: the 2001 census showed that 24 per cent of Muslim women and 21 per cent of Muslim men suffered long-term illness and disability.
I'm sure this relates to mental illness and ability to work. This are old numbers. They have probably more than doubled by now in 2007 as we see the mental illness spill out everytime anyone wishes to critique Islam and the huddled youths who work to destroy England are pouring from the woodwork.
Posted by: Briars at June 7, 2007 10:12 PM
Whether its satire, a clever way to be provocative, or something else . . . it was a very creepy article.
Posted by: JSobieski at June 7, 2007 10:25 PM
Dane,
I read it after you posted the link in a previous thread. It was absolutely hilarious except for the sad fact that it was not intended as such.
Rarely do I have to collect my jaw from the floor, but that was certainly an example of doing just that. Three other associates at work likewise, could not believe that those words actually made it to print.
My favorite was the declaration that Jews and Christians, being peoples of the book are "protected". Protected from what???
Robert Spencer has proven to be more accurate than a heat-seeking missile, and the Time-Out publishers, judging from the near-universal negative comments that followed the "article", should be filling out their bankruptcy applications as we speak.
Posted by: awake at June 7, 2007 10:26 PM
Marwan'sDaughter, One of the commentors identified this site
http://www.smiteahippie.com/
as the author's. In which case you would be right. It is satire.
He managed to get it into the magazine the way those (real) scientists got a complete spoof paper published in a sociology journal a few years back.
Posted by: Brett_McS at June 7, 2007 10:27 PM
This looks more like an article to make people worried so that they pay more attention to what is happening. Like in the beginning of a term, students are posed to an exam they will certainly do bad, to foster their attention to the rest of the term. I am sending it to friends in the UK.
Posted by: calatrava at June 7, 2007 10:36 PM
JW/DW community,
Yeah, it now appears as a ruse of an article. They are reproducing pages of comments I read earlier in the article, posed as new.
Regardless, it is a beautiful experiment to collect general opinions about Islam. Not all comments are against the ideology, though near-all are. It is a win-win for the West, in my opinion, contrary to what the BBC or other MSM sources try to tell you what you should believe about Islam.
Where it falls short of it's intended goal is obvious. Being an American who has visited London in the past, I still do not know what "hot" bands are scheduled to play in or around Covent Garden this weekend.
Posted by: awake at June 7, 2007 11:06 PM
Wouldn't a JEWISH Mecca be even GREATER?!
Posted by: Allahfanculo at June 7, 2007 11:15 PM
awake, I'm not so sure now.
A later commentator said he checked earlier articles in the magazine by the same man, and the current on is clearly not out of line with those. So this would not be the the American Michael Hodges identified as the "smite hippies" blogger in an earlier comment.
It's looking like this is a genuine article, not one done for effect.
Posted by: Brett_McS at June 7, 2007 11:21 PM
This would be a great idea, except Islam doesn't seem to be working out so well everywhere it's practiced.
When I think of Islam, I think of the behavior of Muslims in places like Albania, Algeria, Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Bosnia, Brunei, Canada, Chad, China, Cyprus, Djibouti, East Timor, Egypt, Eritrea, Ethiopia, France, Germany, Guayana, India, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Morocco, Nigeria, Norway, Oman, Pakistan, so-called "Palestine", Philippines, Qatar, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Serbia, Somalia, Spain, Sudan, Sweden, Switzerland, Syria, Thailand, Trinidad, Tunisia, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uganda, UAE, UK, USA, Uzbekistan, and Yemen, and I don't like what I see.
About the only place I haven't heard about troubles with Islam and Muslims is the little Arab emirate of Sahrawi. But then, I've never heard anything about the little Arab emirate of Sahrawi, and suspect it's another Islamic shit hole similar to all the other Arab emirates.
Just saying...
Posted by: jsla at June 7, 2007 11:24 PM
Is "Michael Hodges" a pseudonym for Prince Charlie?
Posted by: Ozi_bloke at June 7, 2007 11:30 PM
This is not dhimmitude, this is comedy... that is to say, tragic comedy if the Britons do not heed its warnings of things to come!!!!
Posted by: ThinkForYourself at June 7, 2007 11:35 PM
I don't have the time or energy to write a full-length reponse to Hodges's article, but I wish someone would. To that end, I can sketch out what life in Saudi Arabia -- the crade of Islam and the state thought to be the logical conclusion of Islamic thinking -- is like, using Hodges's categories. It is a country I know well:
PUBLIC HEALTH
*The World's largest AIDS hospital is in Riyadh. I wonder why. In brief, this is because raping or having sex with a woman not related to you is, essentially, permitted. Of course, Muslims swear up and down that, no, in fact it is forbidden. But when you get right down to it, most of them take the "it's forbidden to rape a woman" stricture as really meaning, "it's forbidden to rape a MUSLIM woman." The others are fair game. A simliar thinking prevails on statutes against theft and murder.
ECOLOGY
*The desert is considered the world's most quickly disappearing biosphere. This is because a Bedouin-engendered "apres moi, le deluge" style of thinking still prevails. The beaches and deserts -- not to mention the air -- are choked with pollution. Basically, a good Muslim doesn't worry to much about rendering the planet unuseable since it is haram to suspect that one day Allah won't provide. He will always provide, so what can it matter? It's more of a cosmetic issue than anything.
EDUCATION
* Rote memorization encouraged; students never asked to think for themselves or draw their own conclusions. Original writing never expected from students. Even summarizing or paraphrasing is unknown in schools. Critical thinking might upset the apple cart (i.e., the totalitarian theocracy). In no university in the Kingdom could you study anything non-technical, such as art, history, literature, philosophy, etc. The government craves clerks and functionaries, not thinkers and questioners.
FOOD
* Junk food prevalent and not at all considered haram. Places like McDonald's and Burger King exceedingly popular. (Sheesh. Where did Hodges get that?) I've heard the Saudis are the fourth fattest people on the planet: this appears true.
INTER-FAITH RELATIONS
* Other religions permitted to worship, but only in private, behind closed doors. And even then, not reliably permitted. They can post no signs or indications that non-Muslim congregants gather inside. This is probably wise, as they would likely be bombed anyways. Individuals sometimes prevented from bringing religious materials (especially physical relics like crosses and statues) into the country, although the authorities are more liberal with books.
ARTS
In theory, music, dance, sculpture all forbidden. Plays and acting, strangely enough, are considered okay, though, assuming they boast pro-Islamic themes.
SOCIAL JUSTICE
* There's no such thing as an Islamic feminist: there can't be. The problem is the Quran itself, which explicitly states that women must be secondary, can be beaten, etc. You can be a feminist in the sense that you crave greater power and representation than is permitted to women in Saudi Arabia (whose strict sexual inequalities reflect, even a strict Islamist might argue, neither the spirit nor the letter of the Quran). But absolute equality, whether in marriage or the workplace, would clearly contradict the letter of the Quran, and the spirit of many Hadith.
Also: Homosexuals enjoy a grim fate here, and must be on the down-low. And there is no pretense of rehabilitating criminals (such as thieves), they are simply mutilated or killed.
RACE RELATIONS
* Although in theory all races are equal in Islam and pray side-by-side in mosques, in reality, most Saudis will only countenance a marriage within their tribe, or even better within their immediate extended family. Marrying outside their race is usually unthinkable. Racial prejudices such as this, not surprisingly, carry over into the workplace and other areas of life. Get a black Saudi to open up to you and see what he has to say.
Anyhow. All of this stuff is the daily norm in the country which is thought to apply the Quran most strictly, and indeed, uses the Quran as its official constitution. And Hodges is suggesting this is the way forward for London?
Posted by: Matt A. Moros at June 7, 2007 11:57 PM
Obvious satire, kind of like Zero Mostel in "Springtime for Hitler and Germany." Uh.. unless it was written by a true believer Muslim, then even funnier! Ha ha ha!! :)
Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at June 8, 2007 12:52 AM
"Alcohol is haram, or forbidden, to Muslims".....from headline.
But slitting someones throat/arm/leg is OK and even encouraged.
Islam = the barbaric-backwards religion of peace.
Posted by: champ at June 8, 2007 1:20 AM
It is every clearly satire. Just read the whole thing carefully.
Posted by: jim at June 8, 2007 2:04 AM
I hope it is satire, but if the whole this has to read very carefully to find out, it probably isn't all that clear it is. In which case it is rather spooky as well.
Posted by: Brett_McS at June 8, 2007 2:19 AM
Yes, the writer's tongue appears to be wedged firmly in his cheek rather than between Islam's cheeks.
Undoubtedly, many here have taken this piece at face value!
By the same token, I guarantee this article will be used by Islam's apologists as 'evidence' of its superiority over Western values.
Posted by: A Nonny Nonny at June 8, 2007 2:22 AM
How does washing your feet and hands several times a day get rid of superbugs? As I understand it, Muslims are *spreading* superbugs in the UK because they won't use proper disinfectants in the hospitals.
Posted by: aynrandgirl at June 8, 2007 2:58 AM
A lot more articles in this vein should be published. The pseudo-serious tone does not provoke the "outrage" normally associated with articles critical of Islam, but could set the alarm bells ringing for Londoners and others not fully aware of this menace to civilization.
Posted by: Dsinc at June 8, 2007 3:13 AM
The "washing" involved in Muslim rituals, like their "fasting," is a pale simulacrum of the real thing. It only involves running or splashing water over the demanded anatomy; no soap is involved, and thus no true cleanliness is achieved -- only an obsessive-compulsive self-righteousness.
Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at June 8, 2007 4:07 AM
Part of the challenge we face is Darwinian. (Though I think Darwinian selection and survival of the fittest and so on are only part of the explanation of evolution. Darwin might be improved by being supplemented with Coleridge's view of evolution, which amounts to a sort of Christian Taoism that finds dynamic, productive polarity involved in the Christian trinity. But that's another story.)
The point is, Darwinian selection pressures in the West in many ways favor those who are blind to the dangers of Jihad, Quran and Hadith and who are thus prepared to praise Islam. Those who praise it are in many ways rewarded. While those who say the truth about it face harsh environmental challenges from two sides simultaneously: 1) the blind and politically correct bring to bear strong moral outrage and sometimes lawsuits, criminal prosecution, the force of the state, ostracization, risk to livelihood, etc.; and 2) those who tell the truth about Jihad and the Quran's command to establish Islamic supremacism also face potential attacks from jihadists and fervent Muslims (who polls show are present in significant numbers in the West) against not only the truth-teller him/herself, but against the family of the truth teller. The pressures are huge, in other words, and I don't see much sign that those in the U.S. who see what's going on are resisting much better than Europe. We in the U.S. are perhaps merely at an earlier stage. We seem wide open though, defenseless, because we can't even name the enemy, or at least none of our public servants, and very few public persons, are willing to name the enemy, because it's all so complicated to understand Islam, and few are prepared to risk life and limb over something they are not expert about, and couldn't become expert about except through substantial study. Without such expertise, and a great deal of discretion, balance and tact, coming forth as a public servant openly about these things could destroy one's career, and put oneself and one's family at risk from Jihad. Thus, more or less invisibly, our government is already beginning to be held hostage by Jihad and blind-PC in tandem. Just as our press, and the press and government in Europe, must keep silent about some matters to placate Jihad. An important part of the spectrum of public opinion silences itself. So the thing creeps up on us by stealth, and no one notices it really, since politicians and journalists are silencing themselves in response to vague atmospheric, social, and thuggish pressures, not in response to any conspiracy with a single center.
I feel our response so far is completely inadequate. We are fortunate in having Robert Spencer, because he is getting through to people so that they understand better and better what we are up against and slowly become more knowledgable and thus confident. But the step from private assurance to public advocacy on this requires, for many people, extremely strong assurance and knowledge. Otherwise, one is vulnerable to the charge of being motivated by hate, not thought, and at the same time vulnerable to jihadists and must start worrying about things like security guards. The situation should be intolerable, but we are like the frogs in the water slowly heating. It is happening too slowly to be noticed.
Posted by: traeh at June 8, 2007 4:18 AM
Whether the article under discussion was intended as satire or not, it seems to have stirred up some useful comment.
Aspiring satirists, take note.
traeh - thank you. Your excellent analysis of our current fix applies just as much to Australia as to the USA.
I think it is we the ordinary punters who have to give our leaders permission and encouragement to speak up - by continually politely, patiently, rationally writing, emailing, phoning, and face-to-facing. They need to know we will back them on thorny issues such as security profiling, monitoring of mosques, halting Muslim immigration, and the defence of freedom of speech with regards to Mohammed, the Quran, sharia and Islamic history.
Yes, we owe a lot to Spencer. I would like to see the "PIG to Islam and the Crusades" re-issued with a less sensational cover design, something more discreet and academic - and a proper bibliography at the end. The present cover doesn't quite fit the style of the content (in which Robert manages to be both scholarly and easy-to-read). I fear it might be putting some potential readers off.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at June 8, 2007 5:52 AM
I sincerely hope that foreign readers will not take this article at face value. Please understand that one of the salient features of the British character is a rich appreciation of irony!
Time Out will do ANYTHING to stimulate flagging sales.
Let us just wait and see what the reaction is in the Letters Page next week.
Posted by: LondonBorn&Bred at June 8, 2007 5:57 AM
I thought it was satire from the off, but having debated with some real head in the sand morons when it comes to Islam I certainly had some doubts.
Personally I hope it stirs up the just living my life people a bit!!
Posted by: Daffersd at June 8, 2007 6:20 AM
16 to 24-year-old Muslims are half as likely to have degree level or above qualification than other inner London young people
Well, it's hard to concentrate on your studies when you've got several tons of hydrogen peroxide or fertiliser to buy and the murders of hundreds of innocent people to plan:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/newspapers/sunday_times/britain/article1295955.ece
And it's difficult to attend lectures in the UK when you're in Pakistan learning how to commit mass murder:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/01/nplot01.xml
... the Muslim act of prayer is designed to keep worshippers fit, their joints supple and, at five times a day, their stomachs trim.
Very useful when you have to run away after your bomb fails to detonate:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6266399.stm
Young Muslims in London are often of south Asian origin and therefore more likely to live in households where English is not the first language ...
Knowing a little Urdu is handy so you can discuss your plot within earshot of a kuffar; or indeed rejoice in the murder of one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/4460778.stm
Posted by: watling at June 8, 2007 6:57 AM
...anything Islamic would be repugnant..
Posted by: exsgtbrown at June 8, 2007 7:07 AM
On the surface, Islamic health doesn’t look good: the 2001 census showed that 24 per cent of Muslim women and 21 per cent of Muslim men suffered long-term illness and disability.
I suppose 'long-term illness and disability' is the postmodern description of 'long-term tendency to Jihad'.
Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at June 8, 2007 7:21 AM
This is just so insane. I'm speechless.
Posted by: Vagn Henning at June 8, 2007 8:19 AM
Page 22 of the current edition of Time Out features a second article on Islamic London. Six British Muslims were asked about their views on Islam in the capital. Their responses are as follows:
Syed Kamall (Conservative MEP for London)
Q: Is the future of London Islamic?
A: No
Q: Would you like it to be Islamic?
A: I'd like it to be as it is now.
Arwa Haider (Journalist and DJ)
Q: Is the future of London Islamic?
A: This is an incredibly bizarre question.
Abdul Karim-Talib (Rapper)
Q: Is the future of London Islamic?
A: I think this city is as Islamic as it is going to get.
Nazenin Ansari (Journalist)
Q: Is the future of London Islamic?
A: No.
Rimla Akhtar (Sportswoman)
Q: Is the future of London Islamic?
A: London and Islamic are two totally different things.
Yahya Birt (Convert)
Q: Is the future of London Islamic?
A: No.
at June 8, 2007 8:27 AM
And did you know that beheading will exercise 12 different muscle groups and improves hand eye coordination in growing boys?
Posted by: poetcomic1
at June 8, 2007 10:16 AM
Is it possible that this is a set up? The author could mean everything he wrote, but wrote the article to provoke outrage. Then some time from now they'll be yet another article about rising Islamophobia.
Posted by: Balrog at June 8, 2007 10:57 AM
From the Article:
"Islamic influences have also flourished in other areas of the arts, with novelists, comedians (Birmingham-born Shazia Mirza was an instant hit on the London circuit), and music (from rappers Mecca2Medina on, to the less in-your-face Yusuf Islam)."
Satire or not, someone should send this to Salman Rushdie. He could probably use a laugh.
at June 8, 2007 10:59 AM
If this is "satire", then it is failed satire. There are other instances of failed satire in English literature. Daniel Defoe wrote an essay entitled: ""The Shortest Way with the Dissenters" ("the shortest way" was referring to hanging the dissenters). When the religious conservatives discovered that Defoe was actually making an attempt at satire, they sent him to the pillory. (There has also been debate as to whether or not Defoe's "Moll Flanders" was yet another failed attempt at satire, regarding religious conversion). If there is too great a degree of ambiguity (as in, "is the author to be taken seriously, or is this satire?"), then it fails as satire. With true, genuine satire, there is no doubt. The greatest satirist in the English language is Jonathan Swift. (Swift wrote a parody of university research, btw, and his musings are as hilarious today as it must have been back then). The unfortunate aspect of this current essay is that (for all we know) it could, indeed, have been written by someone with a serious intent to promote Islam (ie., by a convert to Islam -- it sounds all too familiar, all too "standard fare" of the glowing, starry-eyed, hyperbolic enchantment with this so-called "religion").
Posted by: J.S. at June 8, 2007 11:25 AM
Spirit Of 1683:
On the surface, Islamic health doesn’t look good: the 2001 census showed that 24 per cent of Muslim women and 21 per cent of Muslim men suffered long-term illness and disability.
Well the good news is that AIDS is on the increase in Islamic countries. And that fact that sexual matters are mostly taboo to discuss means that Islamic Governments will find it hard to combat it. (Wonder where Hepatitis C is?)
But my reckoning, we should not lift a finger to help them. After all, the Quran is meant for guide them to the right way of Allah, yes?
Leave them to rot.
Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at June 8, 2007 11:30 AM
Public Health:
Patients will only be allowed to see a doctor of their own gender. And if the hospital catches fire, religious police will not allow female patients to be evacuated unless they are in full dress.
& No booze, eh? Incidentally, the same author wrote a lovely review of a pub for that website:
Brew WharfYet the beer saved the day again. A bottled chocolate ale from Meantime (£3.50) was rich without being sugary, dark without being burnt - an antidote to the unhappy chocolate tart. The same brewery's India Pale Ale (£3.50) delivered a truly tangy taste that cheered up the cheese and took our mind off the grating handbag house piped through the place to encourage, presumably, Gulliver's 'strong atmosphere'. Anyway, a bad restaurant with very good beer.
Michael Hodges
Take away the beer, just not MINE!
Ecology:
Will those public parks be accessible to infidels?
Education:
Islamic education? Like madrassas that place a heavy emphasis on Koran-memorization and adherence to Sharia law at the expense of things like math and science? Perhaps they'll run a few reels of Mickey Mouse encouraging children to become martyrs.
Food:
This is where it starts to look as though the writer makes Londoners think they have no choice, that once Islam dominates, foreign values will be imposed on us.
Inter-faith relations:
If there is one group with a poor track record for
inter-faith relations, it is muslims. Their only possible contribution to interfaith relations would be in encouraging Protestants and Catholics to set aside their differences and confront the group that is foisting its OWN agenda on them. Hint: NOT Sikhs or Hindus.
Arts:
Could we realistically expect muslims to carefully steward the art treasures from England's Jahilliyah period? Everyone should see Stonehenge while it still stands.
Social justice:
Seriously, how well has zakat (that part that has not been diverted to funding jihad) trickled to the poor? Why are muslims so ready to leave muslim countries? For economic opportunity
Race:
Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim – it doesn’t matter what colour you are. End of story.
And should you elect not to "submit"?
If this author really supports these values, he would be an untraconservative pining for the days of Queen Victoria.
Posted by: Greek Fire at June 8, 2007 12:17 PM
I've just read more of their "islamic" articles. I'm gonna puke.
Btw, they have deleted all comments to those articles.
Posted by: vn at June 8, 2007 4:46 PM
It is hard to be coherent after reading an article like this one, but a few thoughts:
London is not Britain, nor is it even England in any representative sense.
Look at a map of Britain as whole. Now imagine it is a rabbit, sitting up in perky way, and look at where London is.
I read some of the interviews LondonBorn&Bred refers to above, they are interesting, including this quote from Rimla Akhtar, chair of the Muslim Women’s Sports Foundation:
"Ultimately we can say that Islam’s a peaceful religion, but until we show it, no one’s going to believe us".
nuff said.
at June 8, 2007 5:19 PM
Do people still talk off soapboxes in Hyde Park?
If so, I have a suggestion to test the dhimmification of London. You need two or three people (preferably, for safety's sake, people with serious martial arts/unarmed combat qualifications). Select soapbox or bring folding chair. Sit or stand. Take out copy of either Bat Ye'or's The Dhimmi, or Spencer's 'PIG to Islam and the Crusades' or his 'Truth About Mohammed' and start reading choice excerpts out loud in a nice, clear, well-modulated voice. Make sure one has an Islamically approved Quran translation and a couple of the relevant source books and studies, such as the Umdat al-Salik, the Guillaume translation of Ishaq's Life of Mohammed, or Schacht on Islamic law, and refer as required. See what happens...
Is anyone game?
An alternative exercise would be to read aloud the more blatantly contrasting Quranic and Biblical passages.
Or: read aloud the Pact of Omar or some similar formulation of the Rules for Dhimmis. Ask people - would YOU like to live like THIS?
Read out, in all their horrid detail, verbatim, the sharia prohibitions on visual arts, music, and public expressions of non-Muslim faiths.
Then ask people: do you want to watch the Mohammedans smashing and burning the statues and stained glass windows and breaking the crosses and melting down the bells of every church in Europe? Do you want to see them turning St Paul's into a mosque? Do you want them burning those exquisite portraits by Gainsborough and Holbein? The Rembrandts? The Vermeers? The Raphaels and the da Vincis and the Titians? Do you want to see them obliterating the glorious Chagall painting on the ceiling of the Paris Opera? Because if someone does not stop them, THEY WILL DO IT.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at June 9, 2007 12:06 AM
"London is not Britain, nor is it even England in any representative sense."
And "Time Out" is not London, so let's stop talking as though as every single person in Britain subscribed to all this nonsense!
Posted by: JFGR at June 9, 2007 5:53 PM
"Some of us still can remember a different London . . . sans Musulmanes."
And most of us Londoners, despite what some on this list would like to believe, still live in that London -- i.e. Islam impinges not one jot or iota on our lives.
Posted by: JFGR at June 9, 2007 6:08 PM
Just tried to look at the Comments. Here's what it says:
"Some inappropriate comments have been
removed from this dialogue.
These comments have been disabled
and will be reactivated on Monday at 10am."
Inappropriate! We can guess what that means -- unfavourable! I suppose they think that everyone will have forgotten about it by Monday.
Posted by: JFGR at June 9, 2007 6:19 PM
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