Tancredo, Romney... anyone else? So far that's about it.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at June 27, 2007 11:38 AM

Nice to see Rudy focusing on his political slam of his expected rival in Clinton, instead of reality.

Working with Eqypt and Jordan???

Rudy said:
"What happened in Gaza is a microcosm of what's going to happen in Baghdad" if the United States withdraws. "It will become something that inflames the entire region."

That would be a good thing Rudy. Too bad you don't see it.

I'm with you Plague, but Tancredo can't speak and Romney will say anything to get elected and then not follow through. Besides, he's fighting his own Mormon identity at the moment.

May God help us all.

Posted by: awake at June 27, 2007 11:49 AM

"What happened in Gaza is a microcosm of what's going to happen in Baghdad" if the United States withdraws. "It will become something that inflames the entire region."

Can hear a voice from near the door of the cybercafe. It is saying -

"Hey what's that guy sitting on that computer doing ? Eyes shut, hands clasped, lips moving" ?

Posted by: arjun.sevak at June 27, 2007 11:50 AM

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss...

-XRDC

Posted by: XRDC at June 27, 2007 11:59 AM

and I used to really respect this guy. I am so disappointed. Rudy, like Bush, is guilty of first degree ignorance.

Posted by: Leave Iraq Now at June 27, 2007 12:10 PM

Robert Spencer, Hugh Fitzgerald, Charles Johnson, Steven Emerson...Daniel Pipes...somebody worth a s**t ....please run.
I am so sick of the "elite" running the country. You must be a millionaire, out of touch with the people, just want more money and connections. The majority of these people have no loyalty to the United States. Hell, GWB is trying to give the US to Mexico. We have large problems.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the worlds greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

1.

From bondage to spiritual faith;
2.

From spiritual faith to great courage;
3.

From courage to liberty;
4.

From liberty to abundance;
5.

From abundance to complacency;
6.

From complacency to apathy;
7.

From apathy to dependence;
8.

From dependence back into bondage ."

Posted by: interestinconundrum at June 27, 2007 12:24 PM

Off topic slightly - Never give up.

We need to keep up the effort we all make. It pays off. Here's proof in an email exchange I had with a good liberal friend of mine:

Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:12:14 -0700 (PDT)
To me from my liberal friend:
I haven't heard from you lately. Just seeing how everything is going. Thanks for dropping my rain suit off. I hope you and your family are doing well.

reply from me:
I don't feel like complaining and trying to scare people lately, so I haven't been sending out my 'xenophobic' materials ( as my friend in California says ) We're busy and life's good for the moment.

I'm busy building the concrete bunker and stocking up on ammunition... so I don't have time to write much. The neighbors think it's a swimming pool, boy what a bunch of crazies.
note:(I'm just kidding - I'm not actually building a bunker and my neighbors are very reasonable people)

response from my friend
Life may be good for the moment, but unless we have social discourse about the radicals who want to destroy our, and our children's, way of life we are sure to feel the repercussions. Although I don't like the means of our current "War on Terror" it is necessary for people like you to continue to educate whoever you can on the hate the other side is spreading and attempting to eradicate our way of life. You have certainly influenced me. Keep up the good work. An ostrich can only keep his head under the sand so long until he smothers or a predator attacks.

Sending information to people, backing it up in a reasonable way and persisting in the effort WILL get this nation to see the threat we're under.

Eventually this awareness will show itself in candidates for office.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at June 27, 2007 12:28 PM

"Giuliani compared the war in Iraq to the conflict between Hamas and Israel."

....THE ONLY thing in common with these two conflicts is that Muslims are doing the bulk of the sensless killings....Islam is for losers....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at June 27, 2007 12:42 PM

"...let's aid Fatah"

...WHY do all the politicians have their head stuck in places where the sun doesn't shine....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at June 27, 2007 12:57 PM

Rudy was also guilty of parroting the ROP line about Islam, stating that Jihadis corrupt Islam. Given his no-nonsense approach to dealing with thugs while mayor, it was a fault that in his case might have been worth overlooking. In terms of foreign policy, he was right on, particularly when he returned that check from Prince Alaweed bin Talal.

I was prepared to support him should he get the nomination (unlike in the case of McCain), but now, this makes me balk. Tancredo isn't going anywhere, so for now, Romney it is. Of course, if Thompson comes out with a better agenda than Romney, he would be worth supporting.

Incidentally, Brownback is off the list of candidates worth supporting after his vote for cloture. He evidently thinks that supporting a ban on abortions in case of rape is a good way to get the GOP nomination.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at June 27, 2007 1:28 PM

Gimme a Doh!

Posted by: joeblough at June 27, 2007 2:00 PM

I think a President Guiliani would be a disaster. I do not understand why he gets this rep as being tough on terror. What did he do after the murder of Rabbi Kahane? Why did the NYPD fail to translate the information gathered from Kahane's killers that would have prevented the 1993 WTC attack. What did he do after the 1993 world trade center bombing? What did he do after Hisidic school children were gunned down on the Brooklyn Bridge? Even after 9/11 he has certainly not shown any of the "leadership" he is supposed to be famous for. He has done nothing but follow behind George Wahabi Bush all the way

The only difference between Hamas and Fatah is that Fatah are a more clever enemy than Hamas and have killed more Jews.

Hamas is better than Fatah:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo3edgbXthA&mode=related&search=

Posted by: irish_infidel at June 27, 2007 2:34 PM

Rudy lost some major cool points. Go Fred!

Posted by: Elric66 at June 27, 2007 2:36 PM

Disappointing! It’s not only his conclusions but his reasoning! He hasn’t taken the time to learn about the enemy, his culture, his religion, his goals, etc. What has Rudy been doing while out of office? There’s no excuse for this ignorance –- not by any serious contender.

Posted by: JasonP at June 27, 2007 3:06 PM

If Rudy and Bush (and the rest of the politicos tapdancing down this same IED-sown primrose path) would just say, honestly, that they were using a divide and conquer strategy with Fatah against Hamas it would at least make some sense.

Especially if they added that they would not accept the Fatah as an honest broker, in any serious future negotiations, until it renounced all of its terroristic ideology against Israel.

At least this would be an old-fashioned realpolitik move for our advantage, and not just more of the same delusional nonsense that failed at Oslo, and with Gaza give-back, ad absurdum.

Destroying Hamas is the first step.

Defanging Fatah is the second-half of the equation.

Rudy and the rest in this race (Tancredo and Hunter excepted)
appear to have no coherent historical sense about the many tentacles of expansionist Islam.

None of the militant Muslim groups will ever work for any goal but their own.

We should learn from them, and work for our own.

Posted by: profitsbeard at June 27, 2007 4:35 PM

"I'm with you Plague, but Tancredo can't speak and Romney will say anything to get elected and then not follow through. Besides, he's fighting his own Mormon identity at the moment."

What about Paul? He may be off on the motivations for Islamic terrorism, but his actual policies are not bad.

For example, aside from maybe Tancredo, he's the only one who would stop the Jizyah. He just wouldn't CALL it that.

He'd stop pouring military resources into Iraq, and focus them on defence. He just wouldn't do it for the exact same reasons many of us would: the protection of Western civilization in a long war against jihad. He'd do it because of his principles and not pragmatism, but he'd still do it.

He DID support the Afghanistan war, so he's not a pacifist truther nutball. I see this as, he's not afraid to go to war, just picky about which.

He'd stop funding for Palestine. Israel too, but they're a modern civilized country that can take care of itself. If we stop supporting the miserable countries around it, it will be relatively more powerful. I'm wary about cutting support to Israel, but if they can defend themselves, and we don't stand in their way, and we support their right to do that, it seems OK.

Iran, and his position on it, I'm more wary about. They aren't rational actors, and a nuclear first strike for religious reasons isn't something we can necessarily deter once they get nukes.

I'd like a discussion about this. I like you people here, you get the main problem we're facing. Talk me out of this if I'm on the wrong track. I don't want to be supporting Paul if it would hurt the fight against jihad.

Posted by: mrsmomomoto at June 27, 2007 4:48 PM

A_Plague_on_Both_Houses,

People like you give me great hope.

If, a hundred years from now, we have escaped the fate of the Christians and Jews in Iraq and Egypt, etc., it'll be because of people like you.

Posted by: mrsmomomoto at June 27, 2007 4:52 PM

interestinconundrum

is that quote from "a study of history" written by some English fellow whose name I cannot remember?

Do you know whether or not he was refering to individual nations or to larger civilizations?

Posted by: GuitarBob at June 27, 2007 5:08 PM

Giuliani is a fraud.

Posted by: US_infidel at June 27, 2007 5:51 PM

Plaque says:

"Sending information to people, backing it up in a reasonable way and persisting in the effort WILL get this nation to see the threat we're under."

I agree.

I don't carry a bullhorn with me around the nieghborhood ,but..., whenever there is an opportunity in casual conversation to open this topic for discussion, I do. Most of the time I can grab attention by mentioning some little factoid from my readings here at JW and other sources (e.g. popularity of name Mohammed in births in Europe, Khomieni married 10 yr old girl when he was 28, the basij children's brigades in Irag/Iran War used as minesweepers). For anyone who shows an interest I ask if they'd be interested in getting emailed about similar stories every once in a while. I add the address to a list and send at least one emailed story a week.

It is a great, easy way to spread the word.

Posted by: Leave Iraq Now at June 27, 2007 9:34 PM

Thanks so much for posting this. It's enlightening and will help as the campaign progresses. I'm a thirty six year registered Republican.

I hate to believe this is the case; I've been told, whoever is our GOP nominee, he will get on board with the ongoing agenda in the Middle East.

This means following in Bush's foot steps I suppose. My party is dedicated to establishing a Palestinian terrorist state in the Holy Land.

Posted by: monk at June 27, 2007 9:54 PM

Ugh. This is really depressing. What happened to the Rudy who threw Arafat out of Lincoln Center back in 1995? The Rudy who said 'Hamas or Abbas, it makes no difference'? The Rudy who tore up Alwaleed bin Talal's $10 million check after 9/11 when the arrogant Saudi started lecturing on the sins of U.S. Mideast policy? Does everybody running for President have to undergo a spine-ectomy?

Posted by: materialguy at June 27, 2007 11:00 PM

Giuliani's already blown it as far as I am concerned.

Posted by: pythagoras at June 27, 2007 11:30 PM

Hey interestinconundrum,

I found some interesting quotes that parallel your little expose on democracy:

“Democracy... while it lasts, is more bloody than either [aristocracy or monarchy]. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide.” -John Adams

“The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.” -Thomas Jefferson

“Remember one thing about democracy. We can have anything we want and at the same time, we always end up with exactly what we deserve.” -Edward Albee

Posted by: ThinkForYourself at June 27, 2007 11:31 PM

Giuliani: Let's not be fooled again, let's help Fatah ..
You've already failed.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at June 27, 2007 11:52 PM

GuitarBob,
It was Arnold J. Toynbee who wrote A Study of History.
I quoted a theory created by a Scottish history professor at the University of Edinburgh in 1787.

Professor Tytler said about the fall of the Athenian republic (about 300 B.C.), "A democracy is always temporary in nature. It simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46519

Posted by: interestinconundrum at June 28, 2007 12:07 AM

Here is a good link explaining that the US was intended to be a Republic, not a democracy.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/Patriot/IntentofRepublic.html

Posted by: interestinconundrum at June 28, 2007 12:12 AM

Actually my friends.. the G-man is spreading Taquiyya TO THE LEFT. And to the MSM. He will need the MSM and he knows that there is a HUGE deal of Hitlery-aversion on the Right.

He will start to sharpen the rhetoric lateron in the campaign.

Giuliani is NO FOOL and he's a friend of the Jews. As such he will see through those who would sell them out in the form of phoney compromises.

Unless he's been bought off - and one must always consider this possibility - I say he's better than anything else you're gonna get in the White House when it comes to Pisslam and the lunocracy called the Middle East.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at June 28, 2007 12:17 AM

Scratch Giuliani off the list. He sounds like another Bush clone to me.

Posted by: mrockroll1969 at June 28, 2007 12:31 AM

Scratch Giuliani off the list. He sounds like another Bush clone to me.
Posted by: mrockroll1969

Unless something major surprising happens.. it's either Rudy or Hitlery.. and he knows it too..

I wonder if a more outspoken Republican [ie. Nationalist Patriot] can win the general election anymore.

Some may well believe that the sh•t really needs to hit the fan to make things turn around.. in which case I may direct your attention to both Germany and Britain.

These two historically inimical cousins are currently undergoing the worst of all paralyzing quagmires while our enemies keep pouring in and cementing their postions.

I do NOT belive that Rudy will have moslems in the White House nor will he have CAIR anywhere near him.. Hitlery has been seen kissing the wife of Arafart so you do the MATH!

Rudy was widelyt criticized in new York for refusing to talk to the likes of Al [slim Shady] Sharpton so there's good reason to believe he'll stand by his principles. Unless he's been bought off since. One never can tell and I am not an insider so it's impossible for me to say whether he has taken the deadly golden bait.

Hitlery surely will sell us all down the river for the sake of Global Socializm!

Posted by: Allahfanculo at June 28, 2007 1:18 AM

Give Hamas and Fatah weapons just long enough to let them both wipe each other out. Right now we dont have to do it..they doing it to themselves. Go to show their intelligence is lacking.

Feed enough propaganda to each group...make them angry at each other. We can set back and watch the "Action".

The only problem with this is... both groups will turn on us!

Posted by: Cher at June 28, 2007 2:41 AM

Any Republican candidate who holds fast, who willingly sticks, to Tarbaby Iraq cannot win. And shouldn't. Giuliani should not assume that because, as he knows, his heart is in the right place, that his head need not be better informed. He needs to study Islam, the tenets of Islam, the immutable texts of Islam, and the history of Islamic conquest. It won't take forever. A good tutor could do it in two weeks. But he has to do it, lest he continue to say things that he should, and will, regret.

He could start with two dozen articles posted at this website about Iraq. He's got the time.

Posted by: Hugh at June 28, 2007 10:53 AM

US need a true conservative that didn´t want more wars but making a secure border, don´t buy oil and being independent from the other countries, it´s too much difficult?

Posted by: Franze at June 28, 2007 11:00 AM

Has Guiliani said a single thing he would do different than Bush? He is a follower not a "leader." What really got me against him was his exchange with Ron Paul in the debate. He was not able to explain about the JIhadist ideology, that writers and theologians like Sayyid Qutb or Ibn Taymiya were around long before the state of Israel or US involvment in the region. Guiliani did not have a single argument against Paul all he did was ask him to withdraw his comment. It is scary that a leading candidate for president knows so little- the only thing scarier is how little our current president the Shrub seems to understand.

I'm going with Mike Huckabee. He is tough on the JIhadists and against illegal immigration. He is also a baptist minister and not by coincidence an excellent speaker- i think he could actually win. He is also the ONLY candidate to state the obvious that the Jihadists are motivated by Islamic theology not Western style politics.

Posted by: irish_infidel at June 28, 2007 2:45 PM

I think having Hamas and Fatah beat each other to a bloody pulp is a good thing. Hamas is the stronger of the two, so if a stalement is to be achieved, then Fatah will need some help---kind of like helping out the Soviets in WWII. So long as the assistance is limited to small arms (no rockets that can be launched at Israel), maybe "helping" Fatah is a smart tactical move.

Is there any doubt, that left to their own devices, Hamas will make relatively short work of Fatah? I can't imagine we want that.

Posted by: JSobieski at July 1, 2007 11:27 PM

Fred Thompson for President

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/FredThompson/2007/05/30/living_in_terror

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ODhhNjIyZGI0OTE1MjA1Njc2Yzg5YTM3Yjg3MzM4NTI=

Posted by: JSobieski at July 1, 2007 11:35 PM