The parents better stop this one. Next they will be wearing muslim garb.

Posted by: R_not at July 3, 2007 1:45 PM

Based on past rulings, it's a clear case of the establishment of religion. Not even close. But as this relates to Islam, our new hirsute and scraggly overlords, all bets are off.

Posted by: Beagle at July 3, 2007 1:52 PM

If those being led in prayer were Christians, you've got to believe that the ACLU would be all over this like white on rice.

However.....since it's Muslims being led in prayer, they have no problem with that at all.

Unbelievable.

Posted by: s at July 3, 2007 2:08 PM

...time to bring prayer back into school...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at July 3, 2007 2:19 PM

After all we don't want to make the muslims mad. They might open up a can of Jihadi on us.
Walk softly and carry a big Koran.

Posted by: TheOmegaMan at July 3, 2007 2:20 PM

Oy, vey.

Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at July 3, 2007 2:26 PM

Greetings:

Here's a response I received from a Marin County (CA) school administrator regarding Muslims praying in public schools.

Enjoy.

"Federal law and State law provides for students in public schools to attend religious meetings in a public school before school, during lunch, and after school. These meetings can be held only if a school employee is in the room during the meeting. In addition, the employee can not be the one to direct or organize any of these meetings. The legal provisions for these meetings are contained in the following: Equal Access Act (20 USC 4071-4074 and Civic Center Act (Education Code 38130-38128). I hope this answers any questions you may have?

Bob Ferguson, Superintendent, TUHSD"

Posted by: 11B40 at July 3, 2007 2:26 PM

Does San Diego fall under the 9th Circus court?

Posted by: Infidel Pride at July 3, 2007 3:02 PM

""Federal law and State law provides for students in public schools to attend religious meetings in a public school before school, during lunch, and after school."

...SO...do the Muslim prayer requests occur before school, during lunch, or after school ?.

Posted by: exsgtbrown at July 3, 2007 3:22 PM

Sounds like a chance for the arrogant social engineers on the Ninth Circus to be brought to heel, yet again, by the alpha dogs, the USSC. The more chances the Ninth is given to embarrass themselves, the more the USSC will clarify and reaffirm our constitutional rights.

Posted by: Infidel33 at July 3, 2007 4:19 PM

Sounds like a chance for the arrogant social engineers on the Ninth Circus to be brought to heel, yet again, by the alpha dogs, the USSC. The more chances the Ninth is given to embarrass themselves, the more the USSC will clarify and reaffirm our constitutional rights.

Posted by: Infidel33 at July 3, 2007 4:23 PM

I almost wish the Hindu's and Sikhs, and satanists would start getting militant, not to mention the Klu Klux Klan. Wouldn't it be brilliant if everytime some school or council(or whatever you have in the usa, rodeo perhaps?), gave some extra space, money and attention to Muslims, immediately they were besieged with the same requests from multiple religions.
Perhaps swingers could start demanding group sex rooms next to the prayer room in airports. Militant Christians could start demanding prayer rooms too, best not get it confused with the room above though, all that praying could get out of hand.
If all the disparate groups then banded together and sued the council, state, or county council, every time they grovelled to the bearded maniacs, it would put a stop to this.
Perhaps a political party that specifically targets Muslims, hmmmmm.

Posted by: Ian at July 3, 2007 5:00 PM

Another step in the dhimmification of America! As has been pointed out if ANY other religio0n had tried to get this trough there would have been a rukus like no other. Imagine the ACLU and the machinations they would be in if Christians had demanded this. This type of "bending over backwards" to accomodate Islam will only result in one thing...getting porked in the arse with no lube, and you can forget the reacharound or the kiss on the back of the neck. When did right become wrong and wrong become right? Someone please wake me from this horrific nightmare.....
"Islamophobes of the world, Unite!"

Posted by: OregonJake at July 3, 2007 5:04 PM

As long as there are Math tests, there will be prayer in school.

HOWEVER, if the instrumentality of the state is used to establish a time and a place to hold these prayers, then it is a violation of the Constitution.

Come on, ACLU, sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Posted by: tanstaafl at July 3, 2007 5:48 PM

"...special treatment for a specific religion that is not extended to other faiths. Others believe it crosses the line into endorsement of religion."
Precisely. Special treatment for a minority group that is not extended to or withheld from others. If they allow the Muslim students to pray, they must allow equal time and accommodations to the Buddhists, Christians, Jews and all the other religions to pray also. A good Jewish attorney should be able to make mincemeat out of Carver and make a nice profit doing it.

Posted by: Timur at July 3, 2007 5:55 PM

I would expect this from the pussy English, but not Americans. When will we have the "shot heard around the world" or Pearl Harbour, or anything to wake people up, I guess 911 wasn't enough.

To OregonJake,

"Islamophobes of the world, Unite!"

Where do I sign up.

Posted by: Isamisevil at July 3, 2007 6:12 PM

Oh yes, those pussy English, who stood up to the Nazi's alone, while America bought more air conditioners, those pussy English, who saved the world from a tyranny that would have left America isolated and alone, between the Soviets/Germans and the Japanese. Those one's, who could tell the difference between a rock and a hard place.

Posted by: Ian at July 3, 2007 6:29 PM

No offense to the English. I was referring more to the current government and Browns comments, he's weak and avoids confrontation with the enemy in his country.

The English are fine, whoever is running Britain those are the real pussies.

Posted by: Isamisevil at July 3, 2007 7:23 PM

"Carver Elementary in Oak Park added Arabic to its curriculum in September when it suddenly absorbed more than 100 students from a defunct charter school that had served mostly Somali Muslims."

NB The national language of Somalia, the likely country of origin of these 100 students and/or their families, is Somali, not Arabic. The Arabic program is certainly designed to serve Quranic studies. Do so by all means, but not on the public dime. Governor Schwarzenegger: Are you paying attention?

Posted by: Chatillon at July 3, 2007 7:40 PM

As long as they slit the throat of a live sheep on the school steps to inaugurate the program, I'm down with it.

Either have real Islam, or none.

Posted by: profitsbeard at July 3, 2007 8:24 PM

Greetings:

And now for some really exciting news:

If I am reading the Carver Elementary website correctly, the brilliantos in charge are spending $600,000.00 on their Arabic Program.

Posted by: 11B40 at July 3, 2007 8:25 PM

Don't they need a foot washing area too?

Posted by: Joe Schmoe USA at July 3, 2007 8:35 PM

I can't understand liberals reactions to this this was someone's reply to me when I posted that article

This isn't about catering to Muslims it's about not catering to Christians enough. Seriously, how are you going to feel when the prayers that you want led by priests and pastors are being led by Jim Jones and that Waco nutbag? Because once you let one in you have to let them all in. Why can't you folks understand???

Now, go learn that it's the pledge of allegiance and come talk to me when you've figured that out.

Posted by: Lady Predator at July 3, 2007 9:00 PM

I see nothing to debate on this issue.

As long the policy of separation of Church and state is in effect, schools are not really obligated to accommodate Muslims' prayer needs. If the Muslims in America do not like this policy, they are welcome to move to the Third World hellhole of their choice where they can be catered to.

It won't be here. Liberty is not about special treatment for members of expansionist, totalitarian ideologies like Islam.

Posted by: pythagoras at July 3, 2007 11:23 PM

Greetings:

The problem is the Islam/Arab nexus.

Usually languages are taught along with some modicum of the native culture.

Thus, in teaching Arabic it would be pretty impossible to exclude some teaching of Islam as it would be same same with French and Catholicism.

All it takes is your basic multiculturalist bureaucrat to turn a blind eye and, voila, the classroom begins its metamorphosis into a mosque.

I'd be willing to bet most of the students in the class already speak some Arabic which would make it a pretty easy course to take.

Posted by: 11B40 at July 3, 2007 11:38 PM

Greetings:

Here's the San Diego newspaper article; talk about the camel's nose under the tent

Legality of Arabic class questioned

By Helen Gao
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER
April 11, 2007

SAN DIEGO – The San Diego Unified School District is investigating a substitute teacher's complaint alleging “religious indoctrination” in an Arabic language program, which includes an afternoon recess for prayer as well as single-sex classes serving Muslims.

Speaking in front of the school board yesterday, teacher Mary-Frances Stephens said the program at Carver Elementary, a kindergarten-through-eighth-grade campus, violates the law.
Carver has had an Arabic program since September, when it folded a charter school into its campus. The predominantly Somali Muslims in the program are allowed to play or pray during recess.

In setting up the program, school district officials consulted guidelines by the U.S. Education Department that allow prayer during recess. They also noted that the federal government has recently allowed districts latitude to expand single-sex classrooms.

The district has hired an outside lawyer and a retired administrator to investigate Stephens' allegations.

Stephens was assigned March 8 to Carver, where she said she taught a “segregated class” of Muslim girls. She said she was given a lesson plan that included an hour for prayer. She alleged that a teacher's aide led the prayer.

Stephens told the school board, “What I saw is clearly a violation of administrative, legislative and judicial guidelines.”

Principal Kimberlee Kidd said Stephens misconstrued the lesson plan. She confirmed that an assistant was assigned to the classroom for an hour. During that time there was a 15-minute recess, Kidd said. The aide, who is Muslim, prayed alongside the students but did not lead the prayer, she said.

The Carver staff is acutely aware of the law and has been careful not to overstep, Kidd said.

According to the U.S. Department of Education, students may pray in school “during recess, the lunch hour, or other non-instruction time.” The department also says public school employees may not encourage, direct or discourage prayers or actively participate in them with students. However, teachers may “take part in religious activities where the overall context makes clear that they are not participating in their official capacities.”

Carver absorbed more than 100 students from the charter school and also hired its staff. Because the merger happened days before school resumed in September, the Carver staff had little time to plan. As a result, the Arabic program has operated separately from the rest of Carver.

Kidd is working on integrating the two programs to eliminate the feeling of two schools on one campus.

Posted by: 11B40 at July 3, 2007 11:56 PM

I lived in this area San Diego and a good friend of mine still does. I drive past the school when visting my fiend. This is a Poor but not too roughf area. It's a mix of White, Black, Hispanics, Vietnamise, Philipeano and Somoli. Thairs a Vietnamise Methodst church and a Buddist Monistary on ether sides of the school.

This "Arabic" program most likely is to help the Somolies to segragat themselfs. Thair is no way first generation Hispanics or Vietnamies would enrol thair childern in Arabic school. The Whites and Blacks in the area are welfare types. I can't see them doing it eather.

I hope the Arabic program is run in a more open way. Maybe we can get afew good CIA agents down the line. Exposing the Somoli kids to hip-hop will be good too.

forgive the spelling to lazy to spell check.

Posted by: Ruebacca at July 4, 2007 12:38 AM

Oh yes, those pussy English, who stood up to the Nazi's alone, while America bought more air conditioners, those pussy English, who saved the world from a tyranny that would have left America isolated and alone, between the Soviets/Germans and the Japanese. Those one's, who could tell the difference between a rock and a hard place.

Posted by: Ian

So now the Limey thinks he won World War II alone. Try telling that to my father and uncles who kept your people from speaking German!
I dare say it will be our people who keep your women out of Burkas. You couldn't do it alone then and will not be able to now. In fact, neither will we.

Posted by: TexasInfidel at July 4, 2007 3:38 AM

If I could not pray in school and children now can't! NO! they cannot pray MUslim nothing! Leave, walk to your nearest Mosque filled with guns! Let them pray somewhere else to kill us!

Posted by: MZ at July 4, 2007 4:31 AM

ACLU go to HELL! forgot!

Posted by: MZ at July 4, 2007 4:41 AM

ACLU go to HELL! forgot!

Posted by: MZ at July 4, 2007 4:42 AM

The school is in clear violation of federal law. Non-instructional time can be used by students for religious purposes but instructional time is out of court. And it is absolutely forbidden by law for an instructor to lead religious svcs even though they are in the room. The law requires that everything be student led. If there is a religious cleric of some type, he must be invited by the students alone.

Even though this is done in a large minority neighborhood, I think it is a miscaluation to do this in So Cal. I am from So Cal and sure you could get away with this on the other side of the Orange Curtain in LA or San Fran, but not OC or San Diego especially, which is the heart of Evangelical Land. You can be sure that once they get wind of this their legal societies will launch a lawsuit.

And it is just false that all Christians do not have specific times to pray. Orthodox Christians have them for example, though in a public setting we refrain and do them silently or AT HOME. (Psalms 119:164 "Seven times a day do I praise thee because of thy righteous judgments.")

Something to be aware of is that the Muslims are using classes in the public schools, with public money to teach Islam. For a long time it has been obvious that in California schools the world history curriculum has been significantly slanted in favor of Islam. In most textbooks there is a paragraph or two about Jesus Christ and early Christianity but a whole chapter on Islam and pages upon pages about the life of Mohammed. Someone has had their hand in the textbook cookie jar for a while. This is something else that needs a good protest. Parents should check out their child's world history texts in Jr. High and High school and see who is on the advisrory board or serve as consultants for each section of the curriculum. I wouldn't be suprised if CAIR or some CAIR type org is doing it. It certainly was the case when I lived in south east TEXAS!

And it is specious to appeal to Arabic and Islam going together as lots of non-muslims before and after spoke Arabic. The two are not co-extensive.

Posted by: American_Palamite at July 4, 2007 10:13 AM

do you really think the ACLU would do soemthing about this? they're a bunch of dhmimmis. they want to limit Christian influence. Also, they want to repeal most of the Patriot Act. Basically, the ACLU is the legal arm of terrorists.

Posted by: precept at July 4, 2007 10:18 AM

why are muslims given special priviledges in public schools. Where is the aclu?

Posted by: callmeinfidel at July 4, 2007 5:01 PM

"And it is specious to appeal to Arabic and Islam going together as lots of non-muslims before and after spoke Arabic. The two are not co-extensive."

I can't agree with you on this point, although it may in a wider sense be the rule. The students are largely from the Somali community. Somali is not Arabic nor even closely related to it, so Arabic is a foreign language to these children. The only connection between these students and Arabic is that Arabic is the language of the Qur'an, the language of the monoglot Allah. Proper study of the Qur'an, as we've all been told so many times, apparently can only take place in Arabic. Indeed, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a Somali, describes in her autobiography how she was forced to learn the verses of the Qur'an in Arabic. Arabic and Islamic studies certainly overlap identically here. And that shouldn't happen at the taxpayers' expense.

Posted by: Chatillon at July 4, 2007 5:12 PM

This legal for the following reason. First this isnot being force on non-muslim student it isnot manority to all student to take apart in. Arabic is taught in all school in moslim country as Arabic like Latin was than common language of scholar and trade. Arabic is lisit as one of the officate language of the UN and other international orgination.
In answer of the JW being ban it is than question of untap market. The Moslim in america are than untap market worth over 500 billion dollar and worldwide even more.

Posted by: DefenderofIslam at July 4, 2007 6:49 PM

Funny I took Arabic in school and not once was I made to pray......

Posted by: Lady Predator at July 4, 2007 10:19 PM

that was then, this is now...

Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at July 4, 2007 10:25 PM

Sieg Heil, alla-balla!

This gutter "religion" called pigslam is LOVED by our internal enemies...

Posted by: Allahfanculo at July 5, 2007 5:00 AM