How dare she expose them with their own words!

And a women!

And black!

You go girl!

Posted by: profitsbeard at August 2, 2007 5:41 PM

Hard to refute a woman who was born under islamo-nazism, and who knows what she is talking about, unlike the likes of Karen Armstrong or John Esposito.

Posted by: Crusader at August 2, 2007 5:55 PM

She's great.

One question though. She says the minimum marriage age for Muslim girls is the first menstruation. She then cites Muhammad's consummation of marriage with a 9 year old. Even if we suppose this 9 year old had menstruated -- to my knowledge the evidence from Hadiths indicates she was prepubescent -- but even if we assume she had menstruated by age 9, didn't Ayatollah Khomeini say it is a "great blessing" if "your daughter does not see her first blood in your house," i.e., gets married before puberty? And didnt he also say it was ok to have sexual pleasure from an infant, provided one doesn't enter?

So my question: isn't it at least controversial in large parts of the Muslim world as to whether a girl must be pre- or post pubescent to be married? I suspect Hirsi Ali is mistaken in suggesting otherwise...

Posted by: traeh at August 2, 2007 6:10 PM

I wish we had a sense for the proportions for each of these five proposed groups of Muslims in different countries, and which way trends are going. CAIR is clearly in the third group with sympathies for the fourth. Since so few American Muslims actually support CAIR, perhaps the numbers of American Muslims in the first and third groups is much higher than CAIR would like.

In the quest for reconciliation between Muslim and western societies, it is important to recognize that Muslims are as diverse as Islam is monolithic. Islam attempts to unify more than a billion people of different geographical origins, languages, ethnicities, and cultural and educational backgrounds into one religious tribe. And while I acknowledge that generally stereotyping believers is difficult since belief is subjective, for the sake of discussion I would like to distinguish between five types of Muslims.

The first group includes those Muslims who leave the faith because they cannot reconcile it with their conscience or with modernity. This group is important for the evolution of the Islamic world because they ask the urgent and critical questions believers usually avoid. Ex-Muslims living in the west are just beginning to find their voice and to take advantage of the spiritual and social freedoms available to them.

The second group is comprised of genuine Muslim reformers, such as Irshad Manji, who acknowledge the theological out-datedness of the Koranic commands and the immorality of the prophet. They tend to emphasize the early chapters in the Koran urging goodness, generosity and spirituality. They argue that the latter chapters wherein Islam is politicized and the concepts of sharia, jihad and martyrdom are introduced should be read in the context in which they were written, some 1,400 years ago.

The third group is made up of those Muslims who support the gradual perpetuation and domination of Islam throughout the world. They use the freedoms offered in democracy to undermine social modernity and, though initially opposed to the use of violence, foresee that once the number of believers reaches a critical mass the last remnants of unbelievers may then be dealt with in violence, and sharia law may be universally implemented. Ayatollah Khomeini used this method successfully in Iran. Erdogan of Turkey is following in his footsteps. Tariq Ramadan, deeply rooted in his Muslim Brotherhood heritage, is devoted to such a program among European Muslims.

The fourth group is the most obvious and immediately threatening. In this group we find a growing number of hard-line Muslims who have defined martyrdom as their only goal. This is an army of young men whipped into a frenzy of suicidal violence by power hungry clergy. These clergy have public platforms and work with impunity from institutions untouched and often funded by national authorities.

The fifth group is largely ineffective and only threatening in their refusal to acknowledge the truth. Here we find the elite clergy who make a show of trying to reconcile Islam with modernity. They are motivated by self-preservation and have no interest in true reform. They take selective passages from the holy books to make a case for a peaceful Islam, ignoring the many passages inciting violence, such as those verses which command the death of apostates.

It is through the first two of these five groups that progress and reform will come. As for the rest, the western world would be wise to recognize the realities of Islam, a religion laid down in writing over a millennium ago with violence and oppression at its heart.

Posted by: Wimbledon Womble at August 2, 2007 6:38 PM

Where does it say that a non-muslim should be immediately killed but not the reverse?

Posted by: Geoff at August 2, 2007 7:25 PM

This woman is a genius. To write with such clarity and accuracy, let alone in a third (fourth, fifth?) language, shows that her intellect is simply superior to everyone I've heard/read on the 'pro-islam' side. However many koranic verses they have rote-learned.

I will take this opportunity to send the link to friends, ministers and media people who need a clear outline of the situation but who are PC enough to baulk at Jihadwatch.

Posted by: Lili at August 2, 2007 7:25 PM

Thank you for the link to that excellent article.

The comments attached to the newspaper article (not the Jihad Watch comments) are... tiresome. *sigh* Same old excuses and moral equivalence.

Posted by: Josephine at August 2, 2007 7:31 PM

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is the Anne Frank of her time. Thank God she's alive to see her warnings being heard - as far as her warnings are from being heeded.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 2, 2007 8:02 PM

In a sane world, Ayaan Hirsi Ali would get the Nobel Peace Prize.

Posted by: Wimbledon Womble at August 2, 2007 8:07 PM

Earth to Gordon Brown

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=472791&in_page_id=1770&in_a_source=&ito=1490

Posted by: Elric66 at August 2, 2007 8:18 PM

"So my question: isn't it at least controversial in large parts of the Muslim world as to whether a girl must be pre- or post pubescent to be married? I suspect Hirsi Ali is mistaken in suggesting otherwise..."

Posted by: traeh at August 2, 2007 6:10 PM

I guess they have a lot of loopholes in sharia.

Posted by: Jauhara Al-Kafirah at August 2, 2007 8:33 PM

If I ran the world, I would hold a beauty pagent for Murtad women like Ayaan. They would walk out on the stage, uncovered faces held up and proud, not scantilly clad, mind you, though some of you may wish otherwise, but in the uniforms of their freely-chosen professions. Without burqas and veils and all the other demeaning bits of cloth that keep a muslim woman from fully being a part of the human race.
She would not be asked trite and silly questions about world peace or puppies, but only one question:
"What would you like to do with your life?"
I think most muslim women are as beautiful and radiant when given their full rights. Seeing Ayaan take no prisoners and hearing nothing from the ugly hags of feminism is delicious revenge.
What we need now is an underground railroad for all those lovely bints and shabbas to leave the plantation of islam.
A pox on the Sharmutas of Willfully blind Feminislam...conspirators and fifth columnists that they are.

Nous ne sommes ni putes. ni soumises!

Posted by: Jauhara Al-Kafirah at August 2, 2007 8:46 PM

She's beautiful! :)

My favorite: "In the quest for reconciliation between Muslim and western societies, it is important to recognize that Muslims are as diverse as Islam is monolithic. Islam attempts to unify more than a billion people of different geographical origins, languages, ethnicities, and cultural and educational backgrounds into one religious tribe. And while I acknowledge that generally stereotyping believers is difficult since belief is subjective, for the sake of discussion I would like to distinguish between five types of Muslims."

And then she lists the five categories. Work with the first two, but fight the last three. It's the only way, both for our sake, and for theirs. A politicized Sharia is death for humanity.

Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at August 2, 2007 9:14 PM

Seems everyone should be getting it sooner rather than later.

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at August 2, 2007 9:21 PM

It is clear, since I have been awake to the nature of Islam, that the first two groups are growing. I wonder how rapidly, and whether the rate of growth is increasing.

Posted by: Quijybo at August 2, 2007 9:25 PM

traeh

Muhammad's consummation of marriage with a 9 year old.

Consider this . . .back in Muhammed's day, they used a lunar calendar.

According to wikipedia, there are about 12 lunations (synodic months) or 354.37 days in a lunar year.

Do the math
6 x 354.37 = 2126.22
2126.22\ 365 = 5.8252...

Was Aisha only 5.8 years old at marriage?

9 x 354.37= 3,189.33
3189.33/ 365= 8.7378...

Was Aisha 8 when marriage was consumated?

Posted by: justamomof4 at August 2, 2007 10:19 PM

Wow.

Last week I spent a lot of time at the On Faith site where this article is posted. There were many articles on muslims last week and the average comment count was between 50-100. Hirsi Ali is at 435 tonight and going strong!

It appears the ummah has been stirred by her presence at WaPO. Mostly muslims posting now and attacking her. I wish more JWers would add a thought or two just to keep things balanced.

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2007/08/my_view_of_islam/allcomments.html

Posted by: Leave Iraq Now at August 2, 2007 11:29 PM

Leave Iraq Now,

I will do my best to defend Ms. Ali's honor, which she certainly deserves, at your behest.

Posted by: awake at August 3, 2007 12:21 AM

A Dhimmi is not only a lower citizen. A dhimmi lives in a state of physical, economical and judicial insecurity and in a permanent state of fear for his and his families existence. A false accusation, a torn Koran, blasphemy, (whatever) rejecting the demands of a muslim to rape your son or your daughter can be the end of the dhimmi's existence.

The mere concept of it is beyond revolting. But we have only ourselves, our own ignorance and the naivite and stupidiy of our elected leaders to blame for not waging the propaganda war against Islamization in earnest.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 3, 2007 1:37 AM

The theology of dhimmi status is discriminatory and completely opposes western principals of equality and equal rights for all.

I found a good website for my fellow dhimmiwatchers.
http://www.gamla.org.il/english/article/2005/jan/win2.htm

Posted by: Johnathan at August 3, 2007 2:15 AM

It's worth reading the comments after Ayaan's article as well. Some make you want to bang your head. Two caught my eye - and yes there is a CAIR connection in one.

It's like there's a concerted effort to call anyone like Ayaan a liar and set up alternative CAIR types as better spokespersons.

Posted by: saint at August 3, 2007 2:35 AM

Your first post profitsbeard made me laugh.

Oh, isn't she great. In print she's clear, to the point and oh so readable.

On TV she's polite, composed, measured, has a radiant smile and a very pretty face.

lovely lovely lovely

Posted by: ewha1 at August 3, 2007 3:22 AM

justamomof4:
Very interesting question. I've never seen that consideration (the lunar year) brought into the discussion of Aisha's age before, though now that you point it out, it seems to me it must have been considered in a number of studies of the question already. Very interesting.

In any event, using lunar years would not make Aisha 5 in solar years when married, unless she was married within a month or two after her 6th lunar birthday (within a month or two of being 5.8 solar years old). And using lunar years would not make Aisha 8 in solar years when her marriage was consummated, not unless the marriage was consummated within a month or two of her reaching her 9th lunar birthday (within a month or two of being 8.7 solar years old). Only in those limited circumstances would we be justified in calling her 5 solar years old when married and 8 solar years old when her marriage was consummated. And even then, even if she was 5 and 8 in solar years, on the dates in question, she would still have been fairly close to her 6th and 9th solar birthdays: no more than a couple of months away, and perhaps as little as a day away. But she could easily have been 6 and 9 in lunar years and solar years. Anyway, it's an interesting detail to look into.

Even though consideration of lunar years might not change Aisha's solar age as an integer, what you have pointed out does mean that Aisha at marriage and consummation was two or three months younger than many people have been assuming.

Posted by: traeh at August 3, 2007 3:50 AM

The Muhammedans are seething!

Slander, defamation, she should be 'ashamed'- she knows nothing, she's a racist (good one that!) and as always, most of the comments from the RoP adherents are just plain dumb. Many post under false flag, claim to be ex-Christians, one claims he is a Sikh (but comes out strong for the Muhammedan cause) which a Sikh would never do, etc etc.

Long way to go folks!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 3, 2007 6:12 AM

saint -- I tried to read the comments on that site but it got so boring. "Christianity was violent", etc.

One of the first commentators wrote that Ayaan Hirsi Ali was a racist, Islamaphobic something-or-other.

I've read her book, "Infidel". It is excellent. Well-written and interesting.

Posted by: Josephine at August 3, 2007 6:21 AM

Wimbledon Womble says "I wish we had a sense for the proportions for each of these five proposed groups of Muslims in different countries, and which way trends are going. CAIR is clearly in the third group with sympathies for the fourth. Since so few American Muslims actually support CAIR, perhaps the numbers of American Muslims in the first and third groups is much higher than CAIR would like."

I would guess the relative percentages of each group are as follows:

1st group: 5%
2nd group: again, maybe 5%
3rd group: a good 25%
4th group: a good 15%
5th group: the largest group, around 50%. This is the group that always uses the classic pass-the-buck "It's un-Islamic" response whenever an Islamic terrorist atrocity takes place in the West.

I'm afraid the reformers and apostates make up no more than 10% of Muslims between themselves (around 120 million), those who support the creeping Islamification of the planet make up a further 300 million Muslims, whilst the most dangerous of all number at least 180 million, whilst the other 600 million are serial deniers and choose to pass the buck at every opportunity. So in varying degrees, there are well over 1,000 million Muslims who seek the end result of our subjugation and annihilation of our civilization.

Posted by: Spirit Of 1683 at August 3, 2007 6:49 AM

traeh: So my question: isn't it at least controversial in large parts of the Muslim world as to whether a girl must be pre- or post pubescent to be married? I suspect Hirsi Ali is mistaken in suggesting otherwise...

The problem for people who object to pre-pubescent marriage is this little part from the Quran: "Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah." Surah 33:21

Anything that Mohammad did, is by definition good conduct. To object to pre-pubescent marriage is to object to the conduct of Mohammad. This would be considered apostasy, which is punishable by death

Posted by: PapaBear at August 3, 2007 8:10 AM

In Russian, a declaration of love is beautifully called an "obyasnenie v lyubvi" -- that is, more than a simple declaration, as in English, it constitutes a kind of "explanation (as to why you are) in love."

I feel like re-posting the declaration of love I put up earlier this year, after her appearance on a television show:

"I love her [Ayaan Hirsi Ali]. But I am willing to relinquish my long-established claim on her, if she chooses to exercise her charm and her intelligence in official Washington, for all the right reasons. She might start with Barack Obama. Get him thinking, get him understanding, and then even saying, the right things, and it will force Hillary Clinton and others in the Club of Blind Ambition (Democratic branch) to do so as well. And then the Republican candidates, in the Club of Blind Ambition (Republican branch), not about to be outdone in national security matters by mere Democrats, will do the same. And we'll be off to the races.

It was swell while it lasted. But duty, I know, god how I know, calls."

[Posted by: Hugh at February 6, 2007 12:00 PM]

After all that she has written and spoken, not to mention other obviouus virtues, no "obyasnenie" or "explanation" should be necessary.

Posted by: Hugh at August 3, 2007 9:13 AM

Rise up, muslim woman! If Ayaan can do it, so can you!

Posted by: tanstaafl at August 3, 2007 3:37 PM

PapaBear:
It would be interesting to know how many of the eight main schools of Islamic law interpret Aisha as having been prepubescent when the marriage was consummated, and also how many of the schools of Islamic law consider prepubescent marriage acceptable for non-prophets. Would like to ask Robert Spencer those questions...

Posted by: traeh at August 3, 2007 3:46 PM

an excellent piece of writing, clear and concise.
there were too many comments to go through, and some were very unpleasant, but there were also some good ones, one of which included this link:

http://www.cbc.ca/onthemap/fullpage.php?id=87

where she defends her position well and with firmness.

Posted by: M Al-Content at August 5, 2007 8:39 AM