I think Westerners in general do not realize how "de rigeur" this practice is among islamists. A reservist doctor who recently returned from Iraq spoke at our church about his tour and mentioned that he delivered 6 babies in 2 years, all women traumatized in bombing attacks. (Normally women are not attended by any non-muslim, especially a man, during childbirth.)

The grisly commonality among these women is that they had each been mutiliated horrifically in their genital areas. Probably not a coincidence.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 12, 2007 10:52 AM

Funny how when these declarations are made by religious leaders, claiming this or that is unislamic, things go on pretty much as before isn't it.
It's pick and mix religion.

Posted by: Ian at August 12, 2007 1:36 PM

One less takes-two-of-them-to-equal-a-man member of Islam.

(Do Muslima women get half a death certifcate?)

You follow a pedophile, you end up in morbidity.

Posted by: profitsbeard at August 12, 2007 2:07 PM

‘STOP THE ISLAMIFICATION OF EUROPE’ DEMONSTRATION (11th SEPT)

Freddy Thielmans, Mayor of Brussels, has banned a demonstration which was scheduled to take place on Tuesday 11th September at 1pm outside the building of the European Parliament to protest against the relentless ‘Islamification of Europe’. The organisers are now mounting a formal legal challenge to the Mayor’s right to take this action.

Until this matter is properly resolved they cannot endorse or accept any responsibility for any protest made by any individual or group of individuals.

However the Mayor of Brussels has no power to prevent tourists from visiting his city. Visitors to this website might like to consult ‘sioe.wordpress.com’ to gain helpful information about visitor amenities and tourist attractions in Brussels.

Posted by: LondonBorn&Bred at August 12, 2007 4:30 PM

Apropos of nothing, why do they call it circumcision in the first place?

It sounds so neat.

Is it not an outrageously misleading euphemism?

I thought the whole point was to remove the clitoris for the sake of destroying sexual pleasure.

As I poke around online, there seems to be considerable debate about what's going on and what to call it.

Anybody have a clear factual idea of what's actually common out there? What is the predominant practice?

Posted by: joeblough at August 13, 2007 3:41 AM

A recent survey in Egypt showed that well over 90% of women admitted to being "surgically altered." Supposedly a small percentage of non-muslims do this as a cultural norm when living in muslim societies. Female Genital Mutiliation (FGM) often involves more than removal of the clitoris; the labial tissue is trimmed and the opening sewn closed leaving a small opening for menstruation. For initial intercourse, the opening must be cut.

I first read about this when some teachers in the UK noticed girls returning to school had "bathroom problems" and experienced pain just sitting in their desks. Many muslims use their August holiday for a homeland trip to accomplish this. I don't know why they call it circumcision. I don't know why they call their religion peaceful, either.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 13, 2007 10:35 AM

Ye gods that's disgusting!

I'm interpreting your comment as suggesting that that whole procedure is the norm.

(I understand that detailed hard stats must be unavailable).

It boggles the mind to think that there are places where most of the women have lived through this, and go through life thus psychically crippled.

Jihad?

If I know anything about women at all (and there's some contention about that) I can only assume that no woman in that crowd who has a son, doesn't in her heart of hearts want to seek revenge on a cruel world through him.

The boys must be raised on victimhood, vengence and rage literally in their mother's milk.

Winning hearts and minds my ass!

This goes way deeper than anybody discusses in public.

This isn't religion or politics, or even ordinary racism, it's mass psychosis.

Posted by: joeblough at August 13, 2007 1:14 PM

To joeblough, re mass psychosis. Yes. See Phyllis Chesler and Pierre Rehov. Bat Yeor on dhimmitude is getting at the same problem from a different angle - institutionalised abuse causes huge psychological damage not only to the abusee but to the abuser.

So far as I can tell, FGM is a pre-Islamic custom - but there is no evidence that, anywhere anytime, Muslims have ever tried particularly hard to stamp it out. My own perception is that Islam rarely encountered a cruel and oppressive custom - especially one harmful to women - that it did not like. Such customs are either permitted, excused, or actively absorbed and then spread by Muslims throughout the Ummah.

I think the Christians in Egypt, Sudan, NE Africa generally, will probably abandon the custom much faster than the Mohammedans around them, especially since they [the African Christians] are now able to exchange ideas with their brethren in the wider church, where such practices are anathema. The Coptic patriarch came out pretty loudly against it, and he's got scripture on his side. The OT mandates circumcision for Jewish males; the NT exempts male Gentile Christians even from this requirement. If you're not doing the cosmetic mutilation to males then mutilation of the females (which is much more extreme and destructive, indeed life-threatening) is, surely, logically excluded.

Western feminists need to be denouncing this practice [FGM] as loudly and angrily as their 19th century equivalents opposed the practice of breaking and binding little girls' feet in China.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 13, 2007 7:44 PM

India thanks us for the way we removed the thuggee problem, which cost the lives of thousands of people each year, these demented terrorists who worshipped the moon goddess kali ritually murdered their victims buried their bodies and made off with their property,

The British Army arreseted and hanged about 14.ooo (I believe one report said) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee.

Another wonderful thing we did was to ban the ritual burning of a wife when her husband died,this is suttee, and millions of women have been saved from it.

We should exult in how civilisation changes barbarity, radically changes it.
http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhibitions/indiaRising/

Posted by: breadwinner at August 13, 2007 8:15 PM

FGM IS CASTRATION,

its far from circumcision, its the

EQUIVALENT OF CUTTING OFF THE TOP OF A MAN'S PENIS.

The using the term 'circumcision' to label the mutilation of women's and girls is one if not the most deceptive terminology used today,

a term adopted by cultural relativists who of course, are misogynist apologetics themselves.

thats why FGM stands for female genital mutilation,

not circumcision with is only the cutting of the foreskin--not the removal

of

nerves, thousands of nerves that not only desensitive women's complete feeling there but leave such horrid scar tissue. Now the sewing up of the vagina is not done across the board as far as FGM is concerned, I cannot recall the name for that at this moment but its mostly done that I know of, in Somalia.

FGM is also the leading cause of Fistula, which is a horrid and excruitating condition where there is not just increased hemmoragging during childbirth but to where the perineum and vagina, is so tore and falling out, and millions of women suffer from this condition in Africa. Fistula is also caused by sex at very young ages before a girls body is physically [thats science you stupid ass misogynist woman haters in Islam[, ready for intercourse--and early childbirth, as well as rape.

Also other causes of fistula but those are the main ones. But see with four wives, I mean women are just discarded ovaries and why they marry these girls at very young ages--they are merely ovary replacements.

in fact--I don't know why they just don't call their women 'ms ovary so and so' because thats all they are to them.

Just think if they could invent machines to have babies hell they could just kill majority of women and they probably would come up with some religious excuse to justify it--only keep the three and four year olds for sex,

sorry is my hate for these women abusers showing? [sarcasism there]

thats why--in every picture where you see a Muslim woman's face--you NEVER SEE THEM SMILE.

THEY DON'T KNOW HOW--

except maybe at other's misery and suffering because thats all they know--and I think thats why the heavens rain--

its God crying over how these misogynist JERKS have abused His [or Her] creation.

and why I have no qualms in being very vocal about their misogyny--it takes one misogynist sorry piece of filth to see nothing wrong with raping a girl/woman or forcing sex on her--when she feels nothing--

there is something Really wrong in a man's mind who sees nothing wrong with that scenario.

they are truly mental cases and here we have people embracing this and saying we should even accomodate these barbaric practices--I think if they send their daughters off to get these torture rituals done,

they should be jailed for child abuse.

Tasha

Posted by: Natasha at August 16, 2007 5:13 PM

Excellent points Natasha. I must be your number one fan here at JW/DW. I even read your blog entry for last night (Weds) and agree 100%. Truth-Telling is difficult and -- in the case of telling truths about Islam -- dangerous work. But it's necessary work or the same old sh!t will keep happening over and over and over again. We all need to call out the cowards and the accommodators.

Posted by: alexon at August 17, 2007 12:10 AM