Im just curious. If the Iranians played in Germany, would their women remove their headscarves?

Posted by: Elric66 at August 27, 2007 9:22 AM

""My wish is to show the peoples of both our countries that there is no need to fear one another and it is a great pleasure to get to know one another," said the director of Osnabrueck's summer festival, Michael Dreyer."

......if there is no fear, then play without Muslims clothing demands....

....The Muslims would show you some Islamic music...ratatatatatatat.....

Ban Muslim Immigration

Posted by: exsgtbrown at August 27, 2007 9:23 AM

What if some of the musicians in the orchestra were Iranian women, who escaped the Islamic revolution? Boy, talk about an insult right there.

Posted by: wrathofasma at August 27, 2007 9:30 AM

The chattering classes live in a utterly delusional world of 'gestures' and 'symbolic acts'. What THEY see is us grovel. I am ashamed for these German women acquiescing in the degradation of their sex.

Posted by: poetcomic1 at August 27, 2007 9:58 AM

What about male musicians? How they shall perform? Circumsised?

Posted by: svemirko at August 27, 2007 10:05 AM

The Mothers of Dhimmitude:

German “Nappy Headed Hoe’s” Perform in Teheran

http://sheikyermami.com/2007/08/27/the-mothers-of-dhimmitude-german-nappy-headed-hoes-perform-in-teheran/

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 27, 2007 10:13 AM

"What about male musicians? How they shall perform? Circumsised?

Posted by: svemirko "

.....unshaven, with bad hair cuts, and with powerful b.o.......

Posted by: exsgtbrown at August 27, 2007 10:13 AM

I am a Pakistani Christian and we do not easily give in to muslim demands. But you westerners have this appeasing and slave mentality towards Muslims. Shame on you. Westerners are DHIMMI DHIMMI AND DHIMMI. Keep appeasing muslims till they enslave you completely.

Posted by: Crusader at August 27, 2007 10:19 AM

The women are not used to playing in hijab.

Get used to it

Posted by: Elric66 at August 27, 2007 10:19 AM

"Beethoven, Brahms and Elgar..."

No Felix Mendelsohn? No Mahler? No Schoenberg? That German orchestra should have gone out of its way to include one or more in the program.

Posted by: Hugh at August 27, 2007 10:20 AM

Or, as one of the pieces by Brahms, did the orchestra play "Die Deutsches Requiem" and did the program notes,in Farsi, accurately translate the German:

Die Erlöseten des Herrn werden wieder kommen, und gen Zion kommen mit Jauchzen; ewige Freude wird über ihrem Haupte sein; Freude und Wonne werden sie ergreifen und Schmerz und Seufzen wird weg müssen.
(Jessias 35, 10.)

which is from the Lutheran Bible, and in the King James version reads thus:

And the ransomed of the Lord shall return, and come to Zion with songs and everlasting joy upon their heads: they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
(Isaiah 35:10)

I suspect not. But again -- they should have.

Posted by: Hugh at August 27, 2007 10:25 AM

No Felix Mendelsohn? No Mahler? No Schoenberg? That German orchestra should have gone out of its way to include one or more in the program.

No, actually it will be some Beethoven 13th lost symphony 'muhammad and aisha' which zionists unsuccessfully attempt to destroy for the last few centuries (like they successfully sunk Titanic just to destroy original Omar Hayam's Rubaiyats). Then, its also Mahlers "Jihad and the beauty' and Elgars 'prophecy of ayatolah'. For the end of performance public hangigs of spyes and criminals.

Posted by: svemirko at August 27, 2007 10:29 AM

I believe the Pakistani Christian, "Crusader," has said it all.

Posted by: darcy at August 27, 2007 10:57 AM

The orchestra's directors were at pains to emphasise their visit would not stray into politics and was purely aimed at increasing cultural understanding between Iran and the West.

Cultural EXCHANGE!!!????

How about cultural SUBMISSION???!!

Cultural exchange would have been playing as they normally would throughout the rest of the world - WITHOUT Hijab and programming a few works by Jewish and American composers.

"My wish is to show the peoples of both our countries that there is no need to fear one another and it is a great pleasure to get to know one another," said the director of Osnabrueck's summer festival, Michael Dreyer.

Like another posted said - if here is NO fear then WHY Hijab?

Shame on Michael Dreyer and the conducter. Shame on the women for being willing to degrade their own sex and accept a 2nd class status next to their male partners.

What a sad day in the field of music.

For a better cultural exchange check out the Silk Road ensemble.

Posted by: Monkeywho at August 27, 2007 11:03 AM

We always say "When in Rome, do as the Romans do", so we should practice what we preach.

Posted by: Rogster at August 27, 2007 11:21 AM

To those who want to stop the spread of Islamic law and Jihad: THE JIHAD AWARENESS PROJECT currently has 61 volunteers in 33 states.

WE STILL ARE SEEKING CITIZEN VOLUNTEERS FROM ALL 50 STATES, ESPECIALLY FROM THE FOLLOWING 17:

Alabama
Connecticut
Delaware
Hawaii
Kansas
Louisiana
Michigan
Mississippi
Montana
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Rhode Island
South Dakota
Utah
Vermont
West Virginia
Wyoming

The Project: We are looking for at least two people in every state of the Union who would be willing to purchase (from Amazon or any other source) a copy of Robert Spencer's Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn't and mail it, on an agreed upon date, to one of the senators in your state. I'm organizing an effort to get the book simultaneously to all 100 senators, in order to send a strong message. If we get more than two people per state, books can also be sent to the House of Representatives.

If you’d like to do that, please write to me at traehnam@yahoo.com under the subject heading “Senate,” and tell me the state your senator represents, an email address where I can reach you, and a nickname. No need for your real name. And I will never share your email address with anyone, not even with other volunteers for this project.

At www.jihadawareness.blogspot.com you can see the growing list of participants, and the states their senators represent. I’ll try to update the list at least once a day. I've also designed a graphic that might amuse. Scroll down when you get to the site.

Once we have at least two people from every state, we can agree on a mailing date and then each of us can mail a copy of the book on that date.

Right before each of us mails the book, a press release announcing and explaining the mailing will be sent to various media outlets in as many states as possible. And perhaps we can come up with some other ways of maximizing the effectiveness of this project and gaining as much positive attention as possible.

One of the project's volunteers suggested contacting Rep. Sue Myrick, who started the anti-Jihad caucus in Congress. I'll try to coordinate this project with Rep. Myrick to maximize its effectiveness. I've also been calling various congressional offices to get advice on how best to go about this. And I'll soon contact Regnery, Robert Spencer's publisher, to ask their advice and to see if we can coordinate with them in some way.

Posted by: traeh at August 27, 2007 11:25 AM

"My wish is to show the peoples of both our countries that there is no need to fear one another and it is a great pleasure to get to know one another," said the director of Osnabrueck's summer festival, Michael Dreyer.
-- from the article above

How would Michael Dreyer, "director of Osnabrueck's summer festival," know that the "peoples of both our countries" -- or rather, that the non-Muslims of Germany, have 'no need to fear" the Islamic Republic of Iran, or Iranian Muslims, or any other kind of Muslims, unless he had read and re-read the texts of Islam, and then had studied enough about the history of Islamic conquest and subsequent subjugation of the non-Muslims whose lands were conquered, over the past 1350 years? How would it happen? Because he just "knows it"? Because it just "has to be"? Because if it were otherwise that would be "too painful" and "it is not something he could accept"? Or did he merely wish upon a star, and his dream came true, and everyone was just the same and wanted the same thing as everyone else, and history didn't matter, and ideas didn't matter, and what is in the Qur'an and Hadith and Sira didn't matter, and all that mattered is that in this great wide wonderful world of ours, everyone really and truly could get along, if only they understood one another better, and what better way to understand one another better than through the presumably universal appeal, the healing power, the grief-counseling power, the uplifting-the-soul-to-the-heavens power, of such music as that by Beethoven, and Brahms, and the not-irrelevant Elgar.

Given the present circumstances, given all the hate and hysteria, Islam-based, of the current rulers of Iran, supported in that hate and hysteria by Muslims elsewhere who may, for sectarian reasons, hatte the current rulers of Iran, it was idiotic of him to make this portentous pronouncement, based on ignorance, based on wishful thinking.

Under the circumstances, what pompousness.

Posted by: Hugh at August 27, 2007 11:26 AM

They could take a full chorus and soloists and perform Handel's "Messiah". That should go over well; the moslems are always saying that Jesus is one of their prophets, and that He is highly esteemed in islam.
As for circumcision, what about the women musicians? Maybe they'll be o.k. in Iran, but if the orchestra hopes to play in Egypt, they'd better be circumcised too.
Really, the whole thing is surprising. That the women aren't required to be in burkas, not just hijabs. That women are allowed to play at all, sitting there brazenly on stage alongside men who aren't their relatives. That the ayatollahs permit Teheran to have an orchestra -- isn't music a kaffir thing that is offensive to islam? (Or maybe that's why they make trips to Germany; they aren't allowed to play in their homeland.)
If this tour is successful, maybe next time they could do a Broadway musical. I'm thinking of "Hair", that should go over well, especially the finale.

Posted by: ebonystone at August 27, 2007 11:27 AM

Why couldn't the orchestra ladies simply wear some operatic Viking horned helmets (borrowed from a previous Wagnerian epic), since those 'hats' should fulfill the requirement of "head coverings", but would also convey the anti-dhimmi attitude of the ladies: contempt for such cultural tyranny, and mockery of their "accommodation".

Let's use their dogmas to bite them back.

Posted by: profitsbeard at August 27, 2007 11:39 AM

I thought western music was forbidden, or at the very least, deeply frowned on in Iran. How come they were even allowed in, hijabs or not?

It would also be interesting to know if the music of Jewish composers was indeed banned (as has happened in Malaysia) and if Jewish members of the orchestra (if any) were allowed on the tour.

Posted by: philiph35 at August 27, 2007 11:52 AM

rachel is a liar. No comments from the "bigots" of jihadwatch are allowed.

http://www.rachelstavern.com/?p=677#comment-70123

Posted by: Elric66 at August 27, 2007 11:53 AM

WIDERLICH!! Absolutely DISGUSTING!! WHO PAYS for this trip??

WHY do we cast PEARLS before SWINE??!!!!

besides.. the fascist 'republic' of iran should be ISOLATED ON ALL FRONTS!!

PS.. MORE Kitman on n.ational p.eecee r.adio right nbow: they're sending our moslems on behalf of Timeout magazine to probe "racism" in new York.

And they have some "Canadian" named Ahmed pontificting about us.

Puck Figslam!

Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 27, 2007 12:33 PM

Im just curious. If the Iranians played in Germany, would their women remove their headscarves?
Posted by: Elric66

The iranian bikini orchestra.. that might be even hairier.. er.. scarier..

Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 27, 2007 12:39 PM

Isn't music forbidden anyway?

Posted by: Mr Ape Pig at August 27, 2007 1:17 PM

Yes and when the properly hijabed Deutsche Dhimmi Orchester begins to perform before the tastless muslim hordes, Beethoven, Brahms and Elgar will all be turning in thier graves. How discusting and akin to ‘casting pearls before swine’!

Posted by: descendantofacrusader at August 27, 2007 1:31 PM

Profitsbeard -

I am having a very rough day but that made me smile. Thank you.

Posted by: GoldieLox at August 27, 2007 1:36 PM

Anti-Dhimmi of the year. This guy rocks.

http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2007/08/austrian-politi.html?cid=80753305#comments

Posted by: Elric66 at August 27, 2007 1:40 PM

The Iranians left male and female musicians perform together??? Sharing the same stage??? Outrageous!!!!

How these guys think they are? Islamophobes?

Posted by: calatrava at August 27, 2007 1:59 PM

I heard they banned all Western music - EXCEPT for German marching music.. Can you imagine..?

Springtime for Iran and AchmeinAssijad..

Goose stepping German orchestra players in burkas. the thought is revolting.. I have to go find a sick bag now..

Posted by: Allahfanculo at August 27, 2007 2:02 PM

" heard they banned all Western music - EXCEPT for German marching music.. Can you imagine..?"

...THe Muslims still love those stirring Nazi tunes....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at August 27, 2007 2:37 PM

It would be tempting to separate male and female
performers with a curtain arranged so the audience could see both groups, but they could not see each other. Women would be clad in burkhas, men would be bearded with "islamic" haircuts. Just like in the days of the Reich, no music by Jewish composers. Jewish musicians would not be allowed to perform (empty chairs?)

Posted by: MP at August 27, 2007 3:01 PM

32% of US Muslims Say They Have a Conflict Living in a Modern Society

http://www.weaselzippers.net/blog/2007/08/32-of-us-muslim.html

Posted by: Elric66 at August 27, 2007 3:14 PM

"The women are not used to playing in hijab. I am very glad that the women tried it and it was fine."

Disgusting!

Posted by: alexon at August 27, 2007 4:42 PM

How sad that some little chamber pot orchestra in nowheresville NW Germany has been brainwashed into thinking this is a good idea.

According to the link by Sheik Yer'mami, Iranians in the early 1980s were treated to hearing The Berlin Philharmonic and Herbert von Karajan on tour there. Which probably explains why there's a Tehran Orchestra in the first place.

And now? Poor Iran.

"...will be boosted by six Iranian musicians for the concerts."

Please let the reason for this be that six proud, sensible German women didn't want any part of this crap charade of 'cultural sensitivity and exchange' blah blah blah!

Posted by: alexon at August 27, 2007 5:15 PM

Muslims always win. When in their "Islamic" countries, indigenous and non-indigenous non-Muslims must always follow the ways of the Muslim majority. When Muslims come to the West, their ways must be accommodated because they are a minority and we respect minorities. It's a win, win for them...and a long slow loose, loose for the rest of us.

Posted by: maryrose at August 27, 2007 5:36 PM

It looks like the hijab thing was settled in advance of playing in Tehran. I wonder if the female players were told to put on or stay home. Maybe they had to wear the head covering as a job requirement.

Too bad if these women don't file a lawsuit with damages for psychological trauma.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 27, 2007 6:22 PM

Wouldn't it have been appropriate, given the high moral tone, to have played "Die Entführung aus dem Serail?"

Posted by: Chatillon at August 27, 2007 6:27 PM

Female journalists from the BBC regularly don the hijab when broadcasting from Islamic countries. They do it almost as a matter of course. Regarding German women: during the controversy over the banning of headscarves from schools and public offices in some states, one Muslim spokesman remarked that it was ridiculous'... because seeing women around the place, wearing headscarves, has become a normal part of German life.'

Posted by: wallyUK at August 27, 2007 6:48 PM

Nice one, Chatillon

Posted by: MP at August 27, 2007 7:19 PM

".... purely aimed at increasing cultural understanding between Iran and the West ...."

Oh the "understanding" is perfectly clear all right: when a non-Muslim visits a Muslim country he must bend over backwards to conform to Muslim ways; and when a Muslim visits a non-Muslim country that country must bend over backwards to accomodate Muslim ways.

Wake up, world.

Posted by: Paul at August 27, 2007 7:53 PM

Yes, even a Catholic, Mozart, could have slipped under the "cultural" ministry's nose.

All this pretense about culture. Just last week the opera goers were watching their countrymen being hanged from cranes or lashed for indecency.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 27, 2007 8:02 PM

Mention of Mozart's "Abduction From the Seraglio" leads to another obvious possibility: "L'Italiana in Algeri." And there is plenty more on the theme of the wicked Sultans, kidnapping and enslaving Christian girls such as Isabella for their fiendish "pappataci" delight.

Posted by: Hugh at August 27, 2007 9:38 PM

Goldilox-

Glad to oblige.

Here's one Deutsche number they could have played:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu2NqfISm9k

The opening theme is Mahmoud's favorite, and the main character is his un-American Idol.

Posted by: profitsbeard at August 27, 2007 10:00 PM

Germany is well down the road to islamization. Here is how the (still) German Goethe-Institut in Washington, DC promotes “German Cultural Events”:

http://www.goethe.de/mmo/priv/2527859-STANDARD.pdf

Check it out, it's scary.

Posted by: Canis Lupus at August 27, 2007 10:37 PM

Well, the concert should definitely open with Brahms:

Tragic Overture (befitting the occasion)

And perhaps end with another overture by Beethoven:

Ruins of Athens (sure to arouse the crowd; "Hey, we can build a mosque on top of the acropolis")

Posted by: alexon at August 28, 2007 1:42 AM

I thought that music was anathema to the Islamic way of life? There is no fun in Islam, I thought.

Posted by: Spartacus at August 28, 2007 12:20 PM

Send-um here to California where the dress o' the day is bikini's !

Posted by: kleo at August 28, 2007 12:33 PM

this is a 'man' who quotes the women had not a problem with it...

so here we have a MAN SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF WOMEN and that right there--tells me that its probably not true,

they probably Did have a problem with it but it was either that or lose their jobs, I'd like to see some coverage on what would have happened to the careers of those women who refused to comply...

how many women were fired from the orchestra for not complying? Thats what should be looked into...

but that aside, I'm not really surprised at Germany, taking into consideration the history of Germany and the fascination of absolutism and fascism, which I don't understand but with the increase of anti-semitism in Europe, it really doesn't surprise me to see nations such as Germany bend over backwards to kiss the ass of Islam.

This goes much deeper than just cultural relativism.

Posted by: Natasha at August 28, 2007 11:54 PM

Wanted to add,

Germany is the country, not too long ago, where a woman judge ruled in favor of Sharia, in opposition to the German Constitution, in a divorce case...a woman was seeking divorce from a Muslim man from Morocco who was beating the literal crap out of her daily, and the judge ruled that this was acceptable in Sharia and ruled against the woman--in a Secular state!

[thats showing respect for women btw, Sharia and Islamic style, the more they respect you the more they bruise your face--sarcasism]

There was outrage in Germany over this ruling--but not by the Germans, no, [generally speaking] but by the very ones who have fled Muslim countries who know damn well what the true intent of political Islam is,

and the message to millions of women in Germany was this:

you are a dog, your husband has the right to beat you, and no matter what our constitution says, it doesn't apply to women, because out of our kissing ass to Islam and the new Islamist Fourth Reich, we will do whatever it takes to accomodate the new Hitler of the world...

because after all, we are 'cultural relativists' and so 'open minded and neo-liberal and all for multi-culturalism', beating a woman near to death and treating her like property is tolerable, its a 'culture' thing....

makes me want to yech, seriously...

and I can almost guarantee the logic used to dupe western women into accomodating Islam, in this example of the whole music scenario--the LIE that if they show tolerance it will spread,

Sure, and if I give one daughter to a rapist, he'll become understanding to my so called humanism and he'll not ask to rape the other two...

thats the logic used,

the really Outrageous insult in this whole thing about the women accomodating the sheet crap--

is that in Iran, it is illegal for women to sing. Its apparently too seductive and evil,

why its really laughable too about Stephanie singing in Malaysia, do these artists EVER READ???????

The fact that these women were forced to wear the sheet, and they complied, just baffles me, it had to be a choice of do we keep our career that we've built on for years or do we risk losing it for political p.c.?

I personally, would have said,

Screw you, screw your hijab, fire me if you must--I'd rather play the violin for the birds, than bow down and debase myself Anyday for a woman hating woman raping regime/belief system.

And I've made similar choices, once lost a job for refusing to wear a suggestive tee shirt [sexual shirt--working in a sports bar]--

see though, thats the thing, about Choices, at least I got one and wasn't put into prison or gang raped for it...no one Forces you to strip here, economic pressure sure,

but in Germany, not only were these women forced to wear a jihab,

they too, are forced to take prostitution as a job, if there is no work, as prostitution is deemed 'employment' and get this:

they can't use religious grounds to deny--

yep, they'll get along just fine with the Islamists.

Posted by: Natasha at August 29, 2007 2:28 AM

I need to take myself to task over one thing I wrote previously here in the heat of the moment:

"And perhaps [the concert should] end with another overture by Beethoven: The Ruins of Athens Overture (sure to arouse the crowd; 'Hey, we can build a mosque on top of the acropolis')"

I should not be slurring those Iranians who are wanting to attend a concert of western classical music in Iran. This alone is an act of bravery.

Given last weeks's (or was it the week before that?) mass hangings, I should never underestimate the risks in opposing such an evil clerical regime.

My anger is much more for the western stooges in charge of this (and so many other) so-called cultural exchange(s).

Being "sensitive" to Islamic fundamentalist tyranny, is tyranny itself. The fabric draping and other mechanisms of control and subjugation are all part of the Islamic yoke. This orchestra played exactly the song required of it.

That's what I find disgusting.

I would like to think that at least some Iranians in attendance of these concerts will be inwardly disgusted as well that so many westerners are so oblivious to their plight.

Requiring German women of the orchestra to become "covered meat" while in Iran exactly confirms those fears.

Posted by: alexon at August 29, 2007 6:19 PM