Turkey: as reliable an ally of Israel as Iran was. Iran: from ally to bitterest enemy following the Islamic revolution of 1979.

It is not possible for any Muslim, and by extension any Muslim-majority state, to be a reliable ally of a non-Muslim individual or state. Sooner or later the individual rediscovers that long-lost spark, that supremacist ideology that entitles him to steal the entire world for his own; and sooner or later the Muslim-majority state undoes any attempts at secularization, as Turkey, in its walk from the original Kemalism to the recent elections, shows.

The Armenian Holocaust, as with the Jewish Holocaust, can stay a matter of historical debate (which Turkey does not currently permit); in the here and now, support for the Armenians is a no-brainer, because a non-Muslim should always stand with other non-Muslims and against the Muslims (Marxist, and other, non-Muslim useful idiots of the Muslims not included, of course).

The above is my opinion; I speak for myself alone. I have met disagreement on this even in my own circles.

Posted by: ZionistYoungster at August 29, 2007 8:42 AM

"Historian Johannes Lepsius' eyewitness accounts from Turkey documented the results of such invocations of jihad:

"559 villages whose surviving inhabitants were converted to Islam with fire and sword; 568 churches thoroughly pillaged, destroyed and razed to the ground; of 282 Christian churches transformed into mosques; of 21 Protestant preachers and 170 Armenian priests who were, after enduring unspeakable tortures, murdered on their refusal to accept Islam." Lepsius concluded with this rhetorical question: "Is this a religious persecution or is it not?"

.......yep , Islam coming soon to your neighborhood...

Ban Muslim Immigration...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at August 29, 2007 8:46 AM

Rep Tancredo, Thomas G.has withdrawn his support for this bill.

Posted by: KAOSKTRL at August 29, 2007 9:02 AM

This is quite pathetic.Its getting to be like a broken record.Time will tell ....

Posted by: purplemarbles at August 29, 2007 9:04 AM

That long played western game with turkey which include armenian genocide 'question', is one of the gruesome and blodiest stains on the hands of western civilisation and common sense. Whole civilized world knows what happen with Armenians (that term civilized world exludes dar al islam), but yet again, muslims never reckognized ANY genocide over ANYBODY in their history so thats not surprising. What is surprising (and abominate) is constant effort to avoid offending the turks even on behalf offending their wictims (Armenians, Greeks, Assyrians-and thats the list only for Anatolian territory). But who are Armenians. Yet another ancient culture poised for oblivion, with very limmited human and natural resources. Quite worthless for free market economy. Turkey, just opposite, is not just worthy of harts and minds ideology, but even appeasement. Even much more important Germany, never received such beneficial treatment after WW2.
Many years ago I have read the book of Ilias Venezis, Greek author who survived the Anatolian holocaust. In his novel 'Number 31328' (which was number assigned to him by his turkish sadists), he wrotes very vividly all horrors he has witnessed on Greek people. But, considering Armenians, he admits that they have even worst treatment than Greeks. Turks kills Armenians on the spot. Probbably something like russian prisoner in aushwitz would say about jewish inmate.

Posted by: svemirko at August 29, 2007 9:29 AM

THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE IS REAL
THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE IS REAL
THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE IS REAL

I would like to pound it into every elected official's thick skull until they finally GET it.

Posted by: GetBornAgain at August 29, 2007 11:16 AM

From the article: "...the Chief Dragoman (Turkish-speaking interpreter) of the British embassy reported regarding the 1894-96 massacres:

"[The perpetrators] are guided in their general action by the prescriptions of the Sheri [Sharia] Law. That law prescribes that if the "rayah" [dhimmi] Christian attempts, by having recourse to foreign powers, to overstep the limits of privileges allowed them by their Mussulman [Muslim] masters, and free themselves from their bondage, their lives and property are to be forfeited, and are at the mercy of the Mussulmans. To the Turkish mind the Armenians had tried to overstep those limits by appealing to foreign powers, especially England. They therefore considered it their religious duty and a righteous thing to destroy and seize the lives and properties of the Armenians."

Of course, we are seeing this behavior today in Iraq, Iran, Gaza, Lebanon, Indonesia, and elsewhere--classic jihaist behavior as directed by the "holy" Koran.

This threat of an overnight mass genocide, as opposed to the slow motion persecution type of genocide, is probably one reason why the President, and our government more generally, will not speak up or take explicit action in defense of these minority populations in Islamic lands (even in Iraq)--to do so, would likely trigger a massive holy slaughter against "uprising dhimmi populations appealing to foreign governments." And after that holy slaughter comes the holy looting.

The contemptible and intolerable thing is that our misguided President, and our government generally, do not attribute this genocidal behavior to its true origin--Islam. They seem to think (or wish to think) it has something to do with tribalism, legitimate political grievances, or local geographical disputes.

The minority populations in Islamic lands, aside from being humiliated economic slaves, are all convenient hostages held to influence Western behavior--especially to attract jizya.

In our own defense, and in defense of the real refugees from Islamic genocide, we must quarantine the Islamic world. As part of this quarantine, immigration into Western lands from any foreign territory should be absolutlely restricted to non-Muslims only. As part of this quarantine, we must make it clear to the Muslim world that we know what Islam is--tyranny, with genocide of the "other" as its primary goal, and that we do not approve of it anywhere or accept it as a legitimate societal order under any conditions.

Posted by: Stendec at August 29, 2007 11:28 AM

How can this be ignored? We're not dealing with ancient history. Any unflattering moment in the history of Christendom is exxagerated and put on display. Anything in the glut of evidence that Mohammedism is a trenchant disease is denied, buried, or rewritten.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 29, 2007 11:35 AM

Just a few years ago Turkish groups tried to force removal of a plaque commemorating the Armenian genocide at San Francisco's Mt. Davidson cross.

Here's a link:

http://www.armeniapedia.org/index.php?title=Mt._Davidson_Cross

Posted by: gravenimage at August 29, 2007 4:28 PM

Excellent article. In this connection, the story of the Armenian enclave of Zeitoun, which successfully resisted the genocidal campaign of 1894-96 only to be annihilated in that of 1915, is pertinent. It is covered at the following two links, and also in Vahakn Dadrian’s “Warrant for Genocide” (1999: Transaction Publishers, New Brunswick, NJ).

http://greenspiece.blogspot.com/2007/04/of-dhimmitude-and-defiance.html

http://greenspiece.blogspot.com/2007/04/fate-of-zeitoun.html

Posted by: Papa Whiskey at August 29, 2007 4:48 PM

gravenimage:

What do you suppose bothered them the most: the cross or the plaque?

And Willie Brown has done at least one decent thing.

Imagine these people, coming into our country and trying to cover up this massacre. Truth is the worst enemy of liars, and islam is based on lies.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at August 29, 2007 4:54 PM

The Armenian tragedy had occured and no one in europe or the us did anything to stop it.

Posted by: callmeinfidel at August 29, 2007 5:07 PM

Doc Bostom deserves a Congressional Medal of Honor. Trouble is, there isn't anybody in Congress as honorable as the good doctor. Except maybe for Tom Trancredo.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at August 29, 2007 5:18 PM

Doc Bostom deserves a Congressional Medal of Honor. Trouble is, there isn't anybody in Congress as honorable as the good doctor. Except maybe for Tom Trancredo.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at August 29, 2007 5:18 PM

Doc Bostom deserves a Congressional Medal of Honor. Trouble is, there isn't anybody in Congress as honorable as the good doctor. Except maybe for Tom Trancredo.

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at August 29, 2007 5:19 PM

This really tells me Congress diffently needs Roberts books all of them! Some American History ones too! The demo-s so concentrate on President Bush they have not done nothing to turn the ship around! Like Robert's book P.I.G bin-laden was the one who breathed life back into these fanaticons!
When I first started to read P.I.G it was the very first sentence of the book I just had to read over and over.
Why didn't Clinton stop illegal immigration? Tighten up the visa's!
Why won't the demo-s let President Bush do one darn thing? That is not democracy! It is like a battle in court and we are the victims. We have to proove it. So we do! Making us more qualified to run this country if you ask me! I know alot of things I would change! If you vote for me, everyone who prooves they are a U.S. citizen gets a ....BRAND NEW CAR!!!!!
Why are people aloud to beg here for charities that have nothing to do with us? I see my charity work for I will give to people I see it help!
In sixth grade I did a report on the Aztec's and Innca's islamist too.. I drew the pryamid and it just glowed so I turned out the lights. Wow, it was brutal though there. How could they even think it was right, I remember thinking.
There is an older man in Michigan suing the government for letting people undocumented be here it was who killed his son on 9-11! It takes the people!
It takes the people to check and see if you are legal or illegal and then kick you out. Does not make since! Why, and when did we become the police!? Put our lifes in more danger!? Oh, NO YOU broke it YOU fix IT!

There BacKkkkkkkk....!!!!!

Posted by: MZ at August 29, 2007 6:21 PM

Andrew Bostom is right. Congress should start its consideration by reading Bostom's columns on John Quincy Adams, a man of the Congress.

Congress should also ponder Spencer's recent book. The Quran was written after Muslims killed Christians and Jews in Allah's name and conquered their lands and subjugated them, and taken them, man and woman as slaves. The Koran was finalized in written form during the occupation by the living people who had done these things and owned these slaves at the time the Koran was finalized.

The Old and New testaments of the Bible were written
down long before the Crusades or any attempt to conquer in the sign of the cross.

Posted by: Old Atlantic at August 29, 2007 9:24 PM

There is a Shoah memorial day, and that is good, right and proper.

Time now for Christians all over the world - from Kamchatka to Iceland, Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox - to also declare a Day of Mourning for Armenia, in memory of our Armenian brothers and sisters, murdered wholesale and in cold blood, with malice aforethought, by the Muslim Turks.

Let the Armenian church choose a suitable date, and then at sunset on that day until sunset of the day following, let all Christian churches ring the Passing Bell, for men, and women, and children, and conduct other suitable observances. Let us honour the heroic Armenian Saints, Martyrs and Confessors, who suffered unspeakable horrors rather than submit to Islam.

To any Armenian reading this: I hope that the American Congress will indeed stand up and recognise the Armenian Genocide; and that, whatever Congress does, all Christians in America will publicly honour the courage and faith of your martyred nation.

Let the Muslim Turks and Kurds be confronted, unblinkingly and repeatedly, with the truth about the wicked deeds of their forefathers. Let them know that evil cannot be concealed forever, and that no-one will listen to their lies.

The mass murder in Armenia demonstrates beyond all doubt that Islam is not a religion of peace but a religion of war, slavery and murder, for it was done in complete consonance with the explicit Quranic and theological teachings of Islam.

When our parish church observes the International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church, I will make sure that the Armenian martyrs are not forgotten; I will have Dr Bostom's article copied and available for reference.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 29, 2007 10:01 PM

'Stop debating Armenian genocide or Israel/Jews will get hurt'

http://ummahnewslinks.com/2007/08/29/turkish-envoy-says-israel-could-be-hurt-by-genocide-debate.aspx

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 29, 2007 10:12 PM

Bush will not recognize it, it is too anti-Muslim. The Saudis will object and Bush, being their tool, will agree with them.

Posted by: non-redneck at August 29, 2007 11:05 PM

I'm not trying to be a fly in the ointment here, but I thought it's worth pointing out that Bernard Lewis is supposed to have argued that the Armenian slaughter was not a genocide. That said, it is important to point out that he did not deny the events, their extreme nature, nor the disaster it meant to the Armenian people. I have not read him in detail on this subject but I believe his point was that on one or two points the atrocity failed to meet the technical definition of "genocide".

I don't know whether Lewis is right, and perhaps he is wrong. But if his point is viable it might present one reason why Congress might legitimately fail to implement Bostom's suggestion. However, even if Lewis is right, there is a horrendous atrocity against the Armenian people that needs to be openly acknowledged and enshrined in actions of international law and policy. The failure of the Turkish government to confess to this massive historic crime under their purview, or to crack down on the elements in their society that threaten to draw them back into similar pogroms surely ought to have some bearing, at least, on the decision as to whether that country is a suitable partner for the EU.

That is, while the term "genocide" might be a good academic hot potato, there remains very real and pressing historical grievances, among which the Armenian "massacre" is very significant (but as pointed out in earlier posts not the only one), that cannot be left to disappear in a fog of revisionist history. An act of Congress would be one way of dragging it back onto the international table and forcing those who carry the mantle of the perpetrators to answer for the crime.

If the Armenian genocide/massacre/atrocity were properly addressed on the international stage it might provide a model for addressing other historical wrongs of similar magnitude.

One such that has been on my mind lately is the ethnic cleansing of the Pandits by Pakistani-supported Islamists. This has been completely ignored on the international scene, and their plight ignored or completely denied, even by the Indian government.

The Armenian genocide is a test-case. Let's address this one and get on to dealing with some of the others...

Posted by: Archimedes2 at August 30, 2007 1:01 AM

Archi,

The facts remain:

Q: Where are the Armenians today?

A: The Turks wiped them out.

Regardless if it was thousand, ten-thousand, hundred-thousand or a million, there is no excuse and there is no use denying:
The Armenians are gone from once Christian Turkey and the Muhammedans made them disappear.

Its not a wakademic question. It happened. Turkey was once (just 500 years ago) Christian. Now its 99.9 % Islamic, more Islamic by the day.

Islam declared war on US. We have aduty to protect ourselves. We must.
28 years ago the West lost half of Cyprus to the Turks. Why are we ignoring this?

Get real: We are next!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 30, 2007 6:30 AM

"Why didn't Clinton stop illegal immigration?"
Posted by: MZ

THe Democrats elected to grant illegal aliens voting rights which gave them the rights of real US citizens.
The Clinton administration bypassed the customary FBI background check for these new citizens demonstrating that creating new Democrat voters was a much higher priority than national security. It is estimated that tens of thousands of applications were approved without FBI review. The Justice Dept. report documented 1,000 cases in Miami; 1,300 cases in Chicago; and an astonishing 2,500 cases in Los Angeles.

....and Bush was not in the picture....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at August 30, 2007 7:48 AM

A note on Bernard Lewis. He changed his position of acceptance to denial of the Armenian Genocide in the late 1960’s.Prof. Israel Charney in Israel thinks Lewis is being disingenuous and has told him so because no new information about that genocide has come to light.

In my opinion, Lewis is not objective when it comes to the Ottomans or modern Turkey. He tends to omit bad history and spin the rest . As such it can be said he appears to have an agenda.

Posted by: purplemarbles at August 30, 2007 9:08 AM

"I'm not trying to be a fly in the ointment here, but I thought it's worth pointing out that Bernard Lewis is supposed to have argued that the Armenian slaughter was not a genocide"

And David Irving denies the Holocaust. so what? they are cut from the same cloth.

Bernard Lewis is the most biased agenda driven person their is when it comes to turkey. And one of if not the chief protagonist in the development of the Israel-Turkey DC lobbying nexus anyway!

As the Israeli press has noted Bernard Lewis is a "player" in this not an academic observer or commentator. There are several articles in Ha'aretz and the Jerusalem Post noting that he placed himself as the chief bridge builder between Likud and the most nationalist elements in Turkey.

It is not Walt andMearsheimer, but the Israeli press which has noted that he is also one of the most forceful members and advisor's to the most stringent elements in in the Jewish American communities lobby.

Lewis also makes the devsirme look like a summer camp and scholarship program. If fact it was a holocaust itself. Estimates are that millionos of Christian children, age 11 to 17 were taken, and forcibly converted in the devsirme. A tiny fraction went to Jannisaries, most went to work as adoptee second class children in Moslem households and during wartime were used as cannon fodder.

Posted by: FrankLev at August 30, 2007 11:58 PM