I am curious about one thing - any Paki Christians here might answer. Why do Paki Christians take names that could easily be construed as Islamic - such as Gulzar, Yousuf, et al? When naming themselves and each other, why not use the usual Anglicized Christian names (like they do in Kerela, India) - Mike, John, Matt..., or use very distinct Punjabi (Sikh) or Sindhi (Hindu) names?

That way, maintain an identity distinct from Muslims, so that no Muslim 'friend' of yours has any illusions about what you are going in. Granted - the bullying from Muslims will continue, but at least no one will mistake you for a Muslim and turn on you when they discover otherwise. And maintain closer ties with local Hindus or Sikhs, and do what you can to get out of there.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at September 5, 2007 11:40 AM

IP:

Actually, this truck driver and many, many other Pakistani Christians are surnamed Masih -- Messiah, Christ -- which is a clear, unambiguous, unmistakable sign that they are Christians.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at September 5, 2007 11:46 AM

Do converts to Islam at least move up to a tractor trailer?

Posted by: Shy Guy at September 5, 2007 12:07 PM

Somehow the notion of being an "untouchable" to a Pakistani muslim does not sound all that bad. Gulzar Masih just needs a couple "untouchable" friends.

Posted by: never_submit at September 5, 2007 12:25 PM

Infidel Pride: I am Pakistani Christian.

Yousuf is not islamic name, its in fact of Jewish background. 'Gulzar' means 'garden'. Islamic names are Mohammad, Ali, Hassan, Hussain, Murtaza, Osama. Some names have no islamic connection.

US embassy still not issuing visa to Christians of Pakistan because embassy staff is predominantly muslim.

Posted by: Crusader at September 5, 2007 12:25 PM

Koran 47:4 -- “When you meet the unbelievers in the Jihad strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly.” -

Koran 8:12-- I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.”

Koran 9: 73--“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate.”

Koran 98: 1-8...the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures.”

Koran, 8:37--“In order that Allah may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-Muslims] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost.”

Posted by: Mackie at September 5, 2007 12:43 PM

Crusader wrote:

US embassy still not issuing visa to Christians of Pakistan because embassy staff is predominantly muslim.
...............................................

If this is the case, it is appalling. At the same time, I have to admit I am hardly surprised. I imagine that the American diplomats think they are being culturally sensitive hiring local staff, and are simply too clueless to notice such bias.

We Americans tend to assume that most people around the world are as high-minded as we are. This is generally a rather endearing trait, but it means there is a lot of ugliness that we allow to go on--sometimes in our name--without challenge because we don't even notice it.

Posted by: gravenimage at September 5, 2007 1:03 PM

Wow, the abductors must have missed the no compulsion in religion lesson at the masjid.

Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at September 5, 2007 1:58 PM

gravenimage,

Excellent point and well said! Your second paragraph really nails it. I printed it and put it on my bulletin board. I wish I could be as articulate as you. Thanks for contributing.

Posted by: never_submit at September 5, 2007 2:03 PM

never_submit, thank you.

Glad you found this useful.

Posted by: gravenimage at September 5, 2007 2:49 PM

Crusader: I can't offer you much more than sympathy, but you have that from me. Pakistani Christians are some of the most abused people in the world. Their fellow Hindu and Sikh citizens are also abused by the Muslim majority, as you probably know. This story brings up an sad but interesting question. The truck driver has been threatened by other Pakistanis, and not necessarily by the government. Of course, the government is also guilty, but it seems to be, that in Islamic countries, much of the hatred, discrimination and violence against non-Muslims is done by their Muslim neighbors on an informal basis and permitted by the tacit approval of most Muslims. Do you trust your Muslim neighbors? Do you ever trust the Muslim man next door, but not the Muslim shop owner who lives one mile from you? How does a person teach their children to survive in such a culture of hate and discrimination? Your thoughts, please. PS/ The problem of Muslims discriminating against non-Muslims in US embassies, unfortunately, exists throughout the Middle East too. When caught by congressmen who care about the situation, the US State Department goes into full defense mode to cover-up and deny that these situations exist.

Posted by: maryrose at September 5, 2007 3:29 PM

Robert

While the name Masih is a giveaway, people from those parts don't always know each other's last names the way they do each other's first names.

Incidentally, what's the difference between the 'kalima' and the 'shehada' - when is the former term used?

Crusader

'Yousuf' is an Arabic form of Joseph, and Pakistani Christians, afaik, are either originally Anglo or Indian descent: therefore, instead of the name Yousuf, the name Joseph should be used. There is no reason they should use Urdu as their main language, which, with its rich usage of Arabic and Farsi terms, is very much a vehicle for Islam in the sub-continent. Instead, they should either use Punjabi or Sindhi, or (yikes) Hindi - that way, they do a better job of not being mistaken for Muslims. Yeah, Gulzar means garden, but it means that in Urdu. You mean to tell me that Muslims don't go with that name? But how many Muslims would you run into named John Saldanha?

That said, Paki Christians (and Sikhs and Hindus) do have my sympathy.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at September 5, 2007 3:46 PM

maryrose,

my dad spent 25+ years traveling to the middle east for work. he'd spent decades developing relationships with muslims. granted, it's not the same situation as crusader, but i remember his parting comment to me on the subject.

"i knew one day i could be sitting at the conference table discussing a contract; a mullah could walk in the room, point at me, and say 'kill him;' and that not one of them would question the order."

oy.

Posted by: Miss_Anthrope at September 5, 2007 3:50 PM

Infidel Pride:

Which language you prefer for Pakistani Christians who are about 2 percent of 160 million and 90 percent of Christians are illiterate. Majority of Christians live in Punjab province and speak Punjabi.

Pakistani Christian use 'Urdu' themed names to get less abuse from Muslims. Any Pakistani Christian who has Anglo name, i.e, John, Joseph, etc. are inviting more and more abuse. Imagine someone name 'George' in Pakistan? There are 'George' in Pakistan who were beaten because they share same first name with 'George Bush'.

I thank you for your sympathy. Please Google on Blasphemy Law of Pakistan. Pakistan Penal Code 295C.

Posted by: Crusader at September 5, 2007 4:04 PM

This goes to show that we can't trust a Muslim.

Posted by: Cruzado at September 5, 2007 5:39 PM

Unless he actually plans to live as a Muslim, his best choice is to flee somewhere where no one knows him. Otherwise, he will probably be killed soon. Sad, but true. This is hardly the first time this has happened. Pray for him.

Posted by: St. David, King of Georgia at September 5, 2007 5:58 PM

I got a really stupid question.

Why did the article have the man's vehicle make, model and licence number (Toyota Hilux # C .5990 Peshawar) in it? Wouldn't this make him a bigger target anywhere he goes??

Posted by: Sti at September 5, 2007 11:00 PM

I got a really stupid question.

Why did the article have the man's vehicle make, model and licence number (Toyota Hilux # C .5990 Peshawar) in it? Wouldn't this make him a bigger target anywhere he goes??

Posted by: Sti at September 5, 2007 11:01 PM

As I said before, it appears it's time to fire up the Underground Railroad again: this time to rescue Christians from their unfriendly neighborhood moslems

Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at September 5, 2007 11:05 PM

US embassy still not issuing visa to Christians of Pakistan because embassy staff is predominantly muslim.
Posted by: Crusader
that this sucks unfortunatelyit seems the State Department in the name of reaching out hires local employees in the countries they set embassy up in and those employees in noncritical areas like visas can block for slow down the visas of room for crimes they don't like and unfortunately under Islamic law as I understand it any non-Muslim that sheds a Muslim blood even from a bloody nose can be sentenced to death! I'm starting to think we need to evacuate all Christians and Hindus from the middle east and Pakistan and sends all the Muslims there to what we know is hell and use neutron weapons so that the oil fields are still usable

Posted by: mowasaperv at September 5, 2007 11:25 PM

I am not trying to make light of this guy's situation or accuse him, but are Pakistani Christians nominal Christians with little knowledge of Jesus' teachings or real Christians?

I have to ask because Jesus said "But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33).

This guy denied Jesus to save his life and thus ceased to be a Christian according to Jesus' words. A Christian in this situation would have to choose death.

Is this not taught among Pakistani Christians? They are harrased and abused by Muslims to the point where I would think teachings like what I mentioned would be drilled into them from birth.

As an off note, I'd like to see how many western Christians would endure this kind of abuse for the name of Jesus. I honestly wonder if I could prevail were I in this man's situation. Western Christians might take heed, this situation very well could come to us.

Posted by: non-redneck at September 5, 2007 11:52 PM

non-redneck, you said:

This guy denied Jesus to save his life and thus ceased to be a Christian according to Jesus' words. A Christian in this situation would have to choose death.

Come to think of it, Peter denied Christ three times, didn't he? And yet Peter was a Christian, wasn't he? He became the "rock" of the Church. Ultimately Peter did give his life for his faith, that's true. But his life shows that one cannot conclude that a single denial, or even three denials, necessarily makes you a non-Christian. The Christian religion, with its emphasis on endless forgiveness, leaves a lot of space for making mistakes, evolving, changing. "Forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Posted by: traeh at September 6, 2007 2:39 AM

"...because he is a Christian, an untouchable..." -- from the article

Oh, so we're also "untouchables"? Interesting.

Posted by: Josephine at September 6, 2007 6:51 AM

"i knew one day i could be sitting at the conference table discussing a contract; a mullah could walk in the room, point at me, and say 'kill him;' and that not one of them would question the order."
Posted by: Miss_Anthrope

Wow.

Posted by: Josephine at September 6, 2007 6:52 AM

Knowing the magnitude of Pakistani Muslim hatred toward Pakistani Christians, how can anyone justify the continued influx of the former into the West? Ban Pakistani Muslim immigration. Far too many are already in the USA, to our detriment.

Posted by: commonsense at September 6, 2007 11:15 PM

Infidel Pride et. al.,

The name Yousef is the Aramaic/Syriac form of the Hebrew name Yosef. Old Mo heard stories about the two Josephs (the son of Yakov/Jacob and the betrothed of Mary/Mariam) from Christians and Jews. He put some of these stories in the Quran in hope of winning them over. When he failed to win them over, he killed or expelled the Christians and Jews who rejected him.

The same also apllies to the other Prophets. However old Mo often confused the stories he heard. For instance he thought Mariam (the Virgin Mary) was the same Maryam as Miriam the sister of Aaron, even though there was a 1500 year time span between the two women.

Posted by: Provoslavni at September 7, 2007 10:49 AM