Benedict 16 tells it like it is. So-called leaders of western nations should note his Churchillian-like backbone. They should all have so much.

Posted by: Jimmy Bones at September 22, 2007 1:33 AM

There's something troublesome about the way in which the Mail article is written. Rather than describing the Pope's comments in terms of how it might provoke Muslim anger, why doesn't the author say that the Pope is advocating religious freedom?

Posted by: Force Tube Avenue at September 22, 2007 2:01 AM

Benedict XVI is certainly no dhimmi!!! This statement also comes just after he refused to meet w. Rice to discuss Iraq and the Middle East- largely due to the lack of action the US has taken to protect Iraq's ever decreasing Christian minority.

Funny how you never hear Bush who pretends to wear Jesus on his sleave speak of the plight of one of the oldest Christian communities in the World nor for that matter the plight of Christian minorities in Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Lebanon, the West Bank ect; or even those that convert from Islam in Western Nations. Has George W. Bush ever even made a statement about what he thought of the issue of Dhimmitude??? Benedict XVI has the courage to stand alone as the only world leader that I am aware of to call for a change of these brutal aspects Sharia law, meanwhile the shrub kisses the asses of the leaders of our new "allies" in the Sharia regimes that American soldiers died to create in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Posted by: irish_infidel at September 22, 2007 3:55 AM

You're right Force Tube Ave...

They want to focus on the Pope being a "troublemaker" and "rocking the boat".

Sssshhh, now go back to sleep...

Posted by: atheling at September 22, 2007 3:57 AM

Yep, the pope is the only one who knows what he's doing around here.

Posted by: mrockroll1969 at September 22, 2007 4:42 AM

Its a start

We need the MSM to let people know what Islam is all about.

This is a small step, its a useful step all the same.

Posted by: g hadi hater at September 22, 2007 5:43 AM

Gandalf the White? Go, go, Gandalf!

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at September 22, 2007 5:46 AM

He needs to speak out more.

Posted by: Elric66 at September 22, 2007 7:38 AM

It doesn't matter what anyone says about islam there will always be someone else saying that isn't what it is all about and it is being misunderstood or mis interpreted.

Even when the imam of Al-alzar says something there is some twit in London adjusting her headscarf saying that he is wrong. That is the nature of islam and that is what allows it to spread. No consensus allows the dhimmis to be confused, til it's too late, and they are the minority and then they find the truth. No leadership means no one is responsible.

Posted by: Borg at September 22, 2007 7:58 AM

Mr. Doudou Diène – the Senegalese UN Special Rapporteur on racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance, and Ms Arbour will be protesting at this new form of victimisation of Moslims and Islamophobia by the Pope.

It is just not fair that Moslems are not allowed to practice their religion without busybodies like the Pope interfering in their beliefs.

Posted by: DP111 at September 22, 2007 8:14 AM

the countdown is on, 10...9....8...Riots across the globe...7...6...5...the pope apologizes and claims, what I was really trying to say was....4...3...2...another victory for you know who....1......?

Posted by: americanmadestrat at September 22, 2007 8:41 AM

The AP article on the Yahoo newspage sounds nothing like this, ....whats that I smell?

Posted by: americanmadestrat at September 22, 2007 8:55 AM

"Rather than describing the Pope's comments in terms of how it might provoke Muslim anger, why doesn't the author say that the Pope is advocating religious freedom?" Posted by: Force Tube Avenue

If I'm remembering correctly, this is what happened with the first "Pope rage" incident. A newspaper reported something to the effect that the Pope's speech had outraged or insulted Muslims, etc., when there hadn't been any reaction yet.

(If I am remembering this wrong, someone please correct me.)

Posted by: Josephine at September 22, 2007 8:59 AM

Here is the link for the AP article, is this p.c. enough for y'all
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070921/ap_on_re_eu/pope_terrorism_1

Posted by: americanmadestrat at September 22, 2007 9:02 AM

I may disagree with the Pope theologically, but you have to admire a man that has the courage to rise up for religious liberty. In such "politically correct" times, it is helpful to stand up, like the little boy in the fairy tale, and say "But the emperor has no clothes on!"

The intolerance of Islam to other faiths is well documented in the historical record. The pronouncements in the Qur'an regarding unbelievers and apostics make Islam a faith unlike any other.

While communities of Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and others can like next to each in peace, Muslims are under injunction to wage jihad until the world is united under Islam (ie, facism).

Modernity demands tolerance and tolerant faiths. The dinosaur that is Islam must either evolve or become extinct. This is the true source of the Islamic rage against the West.

Posted by: tanstaafl at September 22, 2007 9:08 AM

A propos of the right to change your religion: the Dispatches documentary, put out on UK Channel 4 last Monday, about attacks on Muslim converts to Christianity in the UK, is now on Youtube at:

Part 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvguCViEB7w

Part 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQtpaalcu6M

Part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LA0iMGmhPIM

Part 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPDlNt09nEQ

Part 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlLKurpmcKk

It lasts about 45 mins. Sorry, if anyone has already posted this link.

Posted by: wallyUK at September 22, 2007 9:31 AM

Ben 16 is showing more courage than many people with his visibility. I wish the former pope would have been this brave when Arafat, the homosexual, started to attack the Christian population in the areas controled by the PA.

Ben 16 comes years later, but there is still some hope.

Posted by: Crusader at September 22, 2007 9:33 AM

"The AP article on the Yahoo newspage sounds nothing like this, ....whats that I smell?

Posted by: americanmadestrat "

....fear.....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at September 22, 2007 10:16 AM

God Bless Pope B16 and his standing up to the truth!

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at September 22, 2007 10:37 AM

I am surprised that the article did not end with a prediction of how many casualties would ensue as a result of this latest comment.

I, too, wish the Pope would speak out more, Elric66, but every time he does there is bloodshed. But, hey, there is bloodshed, regardless, and he knows it.

As Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the current pope was unequivocating is his assessment of Islam, and his books are a testament to that. I think the Vatican's physical presence in Italy is becoming the only Christian thing inside it.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at September 22, 2007 10:45 AM

"Addressing the problem of Islamic extremism, he added: "Terrorism is a serious problem whose perpetrators often claim to act in God's name and harbour an inexcusable contempt for human life."

......and we keep letting them into our country....

...Ban Muslim Immigration....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at September 22, 2007 11:03 AM

EliasAlucard:

You obviously haven't been paying much attention. Pope Benedict has been criticizing Islam's religious intolerance (among other things) incessantly. The media just doesn't bother reporting it, and you have to rely on other outlets for what is coming out of the Vatican (and not just Jihad Watch).

Posted by: atheling at September 22, 2007 11:59 AM

Thank God for this Pope and his gutsy stand against Islamic persecution of Christians.

Posted by: ConorMacNessa at September 22, 2007 12:12 PM

I like Benedict XVI. West should follow his cue. This is the correct way to tackle the problem, not sticking your head in the sand while Christians and other non-Muslims in the Middle East perish. Religious freedom (and more) must be demanded from these countries explicitly in return for bilateral ties.

Posted by: SerbInfidel at September 22, 2007 12:36 PM

The Daily Mail apparently wants Christians to remain persucuted. The article is implying that the Pope should shut up and not expose the true evil that is Islam. They are blaming the Pope for "rocking the boat", rather than allow the false perception of a peaceful Islam to be shown to the world.

British newspapers are generally anti-Christian and Pro-Muslim (especially the BBC). I've stopped believing anything about Islam and religion in general that is printed in the British press. Thank God for jihad watch!

Posted by: non-redneck at September 22, 2007 1:00 PM

atheling. You say:

"You obviously haven't been paying much attention. Pope Benedict has been criticizing Islam's religious intolerance (among other things) incessantly. The media just doesn't bother reporting it, and you have to rely on other outlets for what is coming out of the Vatican (and not just Jihad Watch)."

Please direct us to where this incessant criticizing can be found, and/or what evidence you have to support. I would be much interested in reading some of this criticism, maybe an outlet or two, especially any that has been made by him over the past year? I have not seen any, though I'd like to, if it is available, or, if not available, how are you aware same has issued?

Posted by: USorThem at September 22, 2007 1:50 PM

USorThem:

Have you ever heard of the Vatican website? You can google that. If you kept abreast of news within the Church you would find many instances where the Pope has taken a stand against Christian persecution.

Read his book Salt of the Earth. Read his speeches, especially the ones before an audience which consists of Muslim diplomats to the Vatican.

How about this place:

http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/?eng=y

Or here:

http://www.catholicnews.com/

Or here:

http://www.cwnews.com/

Or here:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45449

Here is an eye opener about Benedict's reason why Islam cannot be reformed:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HA10Ak01.html

I mean really, don't you know how to use the internet??? Or when's the last time you picked up a book or read a book or speech or essay by the Pope? I bet I know the answer.

There is a plethora of information of the Pope's words, whether oral or written that is available. You just have to exert yourself a little.

Posted by: atheling at September 22, 2007 3:20 PM

Oops, forgot this one. This one is really good:

http://www.popebenedictxvifanclub.com/blog/

Posted by: atheling at September 22, 2007 3:26 PM

And here is a speech he gave to Muslims at the Vatican:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2005/august/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20050820_meeting-muslims_en.html

Don't expect him to harangue. That's not his style. Benedict is a man of letters; a gentleman and a scholar. But he never swerves from speaking the truth.

Posted by: atheling at September 22, 2007 3:33 PM

I love this Pope!! He might be pessimistic about my future as a Pagan, but that is very small thing. He is so good in precipitating the crisis and ready to talk about ( I am not sure if it is a right phrase ) the elephant in the room.

Posted by: pagan at September 22, 2007 5:13 PM

The Mohammedans can criticize the Pope and Christianity when Saudi Arabia has as many churches and synagogues as Italy does.

Posted by: Timur at September 22, 2007 5:32 PM

Considering that the evangelical Christians such as Rev.John Hagee has been criticizing Islam and terrorism for years it is about time the Pope came out with something to say about it. This time I hope he sticks by it rather than by claiming he was just quoting another scholar.

If the Pope really wants to get out the word I suggest he take some pointers from Rev.Hagee and speak to Jewish groups and the Israeli press, that is a far more receptive audience than the BBC, et al, and certainly would get out his message to all of us "invincibly ignorant". Frankly, I can't imagine any American media outlet not reporting Benedict's utterances, especially one that has potential to stir up contraversy.

Posted by: CLL1709 at September 22, 2007 9:40 PM

The Pope is on the ball.
And he is courageous.

This need to happen, daily.
Eventually Muslims worldwide will get tired of rioting and maybe some words will penetrate their hearts. They are human beings after all.

Posted by: UK Infidel Lover at September 22, 2007 10:29 PM

Eventually Muslims worldwide will get tired of rioting and maybe some words will penetrate their hearts. They are human beings after all.
Posted by: UK Infidel Lover

What makes you so sure? Are zombies and vampires human beings?

Tired of rioting?!

They're just getting started.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at September 23, 2007 12:17 AM

The Pope has again risked provoking the wrath of the Islamic world, by criticising its treatment of Christians

Uh, no! This is entirely the wrong way round and makes absolutely no sense. Whoever thought that semi-literate journalists could ever get a story correct! It should read thusly:

The Islamic world has again risked provoking the wrath of the Pope, by its treatment of Christians

There, that's better, and at least it makes sense that way round. Mr. Spencer, for Heaven's sake, you can't seriously expect us to believe that the 'Daily Mail', of all 'papers, would get things so wrong, do you?

OK, sarcasm and irony off - anger, however, still very much on!

Posted by: OliverPCamford at September 23, 2007 12:44 AM

He is so good in precipitating the crisis and ready to talk about ( I am not sure if it is a right phrase ) the elephant in the room.
Posted by: pagan

I'd be more inclined to call it a fat smelly hog. But that may be mere semantics.

The hog saht on the floor and noone is holding their noses yet. The few of us who are holding our noses are being called the vilest of names.

All of us on Jihadwatch are more of a prophet than that pedophile criminal mahomet ever was.

We see what is coming. And we say it out loud. How rude of us.

Posted by: Allahfanculo at September 23, 2007 2:23 AM

Some time ago, although I am not Catholic but Anglican, I wrote to the Catholic Cardinal in Australia, George Pell, commending him for certain truthful remarks he had made in public about Islam.

I said very loud and clear that not just Catholics but all Christians and many outside the Christian faith would benefit were His Holiness Benedict XVI to produce an encyclical containing a no-holds-barred scholarly and detailed analysis and critique of Islam.

I recommend that anyone posting or lurking here who is a professing Christian, of whatever tradition, should identify which Catholic Archbishop or Cardinal is responsible for the location in which they live, and write to that archbishop or cardina, urging him to peruse the works of that pious Catholic, Mr Robert Spencer; to share what they learn, with the Pope; and to encourage and support the Pope in speaking out about Islam, in particular, concerning its ferocious and relentless persecution of Christians and indeed of all non-Muslims.

Hey - go straight to the top! Write a very brief, polite and respectful letter to the Vatican, praising Benedict XVI for his critique of Muslim strictures on religious freedom. If his secretary starts getting thousands of letters from all over the world, and not just from Catholics, saying 'go mate go! good on ya! say it louder!', it's got to have SOME effect.

I'm praying. myself, that some day soon Mr Robert Spencer, Madame Bat Yeor, Mr Hugh Fitzgerald, and a number of other folks - Ayaan Hirsi Ali? Nonie Darwish? Wafa Sultan? - will get that very special invitation to the Vatican for an audience/ briefing session with the Pope.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at September 23, 2007 4:35 AM

Sorry CLL1709 but I do not think that Benedict XVI will be taking pointers anytime soon from an anti-Catholic John Hagee. I do think it might be productive of yourself however to send Hagee a copy of Spencers latest book "Religion of Peace?: Why Christianity is and Islam isn't." The parts about the history of the Church and Holocaust might do him well and dispel him of the notion that the Catholic Church because of the Crusades and Inquisition is just as bad as Islam.

http://catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2007&month=June&read=2264

Posted by: irish_infidel at September 23, 2007 5:51 AM

My only regret is that the Pope is 80. Would that he had as long a reign ahead of him as John Paul II, one of whose few blind spots was the danger posed by Islamification.

But why did he feel the need to retreat and apologise after last year's debacle, even to the extent of being filmed praying in a mosque? However well intentioned, that gesture looked like appeasement, even submission. Many Islamists must have watched it and thought, Gee, we can even bully the Pope.

Posted by: The Heresiarch at September 23, 2007 9:00 AM

EliasAlucard:

You're so full of it. He did NOT "revert" into a "little bit of dhimmi" during his visit to Turkey. When he prayed he wore slippers and kept his pectoral cross on. Hardly acts of submission.

You haven't been "paying attention" if you've only read his material when he was a Cardinal. He's been Pope for over a year now and you haven't read anything he's written as such, have you? That's NOT paying attention, is it?

I've noticed that you like to slam the Pope at every opportunity you get. You call him a "dhimmi"? Well I'd like to know where were you during the Euro demonstration in Brussels. Were you there, risking arrest and beatings by the police or just hiding behind your keyboard pointing your finger at everyone else?

Posted by: atheling at September 23, 2007 8:22 PM

"It's his responsibility as the leader of 1 billion Catholics, to take a rougher stance against Islam"

Is it??? Who the hell are you to say what the Pope is supposed to say or how he is to say it?

What arrogance you demonstrate!

And yes, I figured you weren't at the Brussels demo. People like you are all talk and no action. *BLUSTERING*: "If I were Pope I'd do it better!".

Listen to yourself.

Posted by: atheling at September 24, 2007 1:13 AM

BTW, the fact that you didn't go to the Brussels demo only indicates that YOU ARE THE DHIMMI, NOT THE POPE!

At least he had the courage to go to Turkey in spite of the rioting, the death threats, and the actual murders of Christians committed by maniacal Muslims.

You just sit behind the keyboard and point fingers, calling people dhimmis.

What a blowhard you are!

Posted by: atheling at September 24, 2007 1:15 AM

atheling,

I have been down this road before on these forums... There is no use in arguing with him or a few others...

Some people think that the Pope should be bringing a message of War instead of Peace. The Pope was no in Turkey to dialog with Muslims as much as with the Eastern rite.

I gues being the leader of The Church he would try and do what God wants him to do not what The World would want him to do...

Posted by: Weatherob at September 24, 2007 11:21 AM

"As for the Pope, it's his responsibility to speak out against Islam. He's not doing it enough if you ask me."

According to who? Sheesh! What qualifies you to determine what The Popes job is?

Posted by: Weatherob at September 24, 2007 11:23 AM

Elias, I agree with so much of your criticism of the current Pope and John Paul as well. Though what John Paul did combating Communism is as important as what Ratzinger should do regarding Islam. Many of our Christian leaders have not stepped up in confronting Islam and other repressive philosophies. This "religion of peace" malarkey just has to stop and Islam be exposed for the curse it is.

And irish-infidel, being a descendent of French Huguenot's, there isn't a lot I will accept from you defenders of the Catholic faith except a profound apology, thanks. No pointing to web sites change the facts in my family's case so save it for those that do not share my history.

Just as I have said to some Jews in discussions, this is a time for all Christians and Jews to come together, regardless of our differences, because we are not going to put Islam back into it's bloody hole alone. We need everyone working together.

Posted by: CLL1709 at September 24, 2007 11:41 AM

CLL1709

How do you expect Christians to be able to come together when you have major leaders in the evangelical community like John Hagee and Bob Jones viciously attacking their fellow Christians? Or do you not consider Catholics to be Christian? Hagee's simple minded attack on the history of the Catholic Church is something I would expect to read from a far-left Atheist.

Posted by: irish_infidel at September 24, 2007 10:44 PM

Shouldn't this be:

"Islam risks offending the rest of humanity by their intolerant treatment of all non-Muslims?"

The Pope needs to call Islam a minor gnostic heresy and say it is time for them to return to the Fold.

It's his Job.

Posted by: profitsbeard at September 25, 2007 1:57 AM

From Irish Infidel " ( The Pope )....refused to meet w. Rice to discuss Iraq and the Middle East- largely due to the lack of action the US has taken to protect Iraq's ever decreasing Christian minority."

Did he? Well good for him.

Irish Infidel"Funny how you never hear Bush who pretends to wear Jesus on his sleave speak of the plight of one of the oldest Christian communities in the World nor for that matter the plight of Christian minorities in Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Lebanon, the West Bank ect; or even those that convert from Islam in Western Nations."

Yup. You hit the nail on the head.

And from I.I."meanwhile the shrub kisses the asses of the leaders of our new "allies" in the Sharia regimes that American soldiers died to create in Iraq and Afghanistan.'

Spot on as per. I read, on another article, that you took the photos of those fools with posters supporting the nuking of Israel.

Good for you Irish Infidel. Good for you.

Posted by: ewha1 at September 27, 2007 1:18 AM