| FrontPageMag.com | By Robert Spencer | By Hugh Fitzgerald | Books | Jihad Watch | Islam 101 | Qur'an Blog | Raymond Ibrahim | Robert Spencer |  |
|
|
|||||||||||
|
|
"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.” - Albert Einstein
This is especially true when that "same thing" involves territorial concessions. Look how spectacularly Gaza worked out.
"Israel signals shift on Jerusalem split," by Karin Laub for the Associated Press:
JERUSALEM - Two senior Israeli politicians, including the prime minister's closest ally, talked openly Monday about dividing Jerusalem, signaling a possible shift in Israeli opinion about one of the Mideast's most contentious issues.
The dispute over Jerusalem has derailed negotiations in the past, and the latest comments come at a time when Israeli and Palestinian teams are trying to agree on principles guiding future peace talks.
The ideas raised by Israeli Vice Premier Haim Ramon still fall far short of Palestinian demands to establish their capital in all of the city's eastern sector, annexed by Israel after the 1967 Mideast War.
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, meanwhile, told his parliament he will not be deterred from seeking a peace deal with the Palestinians. He said Israel has missed opportunities in the past, and warned that continued failure would mean a "demographic struggle steeped in blood and tears."
Olmert was unusually impassioned but short on specifics. He made no mention of Jerusalem.
Later Monday, Israeli and Palestinian teams met for the first time to start drafting a joint declaration of principles that would guide negotiators if peace talks were to resume after a seven-year freeze.
The document, which is to address the key disputes — borders, Jerusalem, Israeli settlements, Palestinian refugees — will be the centerpiece of a U.S.-hosted Mideast conference in November.
Olmert's speech appeared to be a careful balancing act — sending an encouraging message to the Palestinians, while not giving his hardline critics at home too much ammunition by going into detail.
His central theme was a pledge not to miss an opportunity to reach a long-elusive peace deal, even if it requires costly concessions. Olmert said Israelis will have to led go of some of the beliefs that "fed the national ethos for many years," a reference to giving up West Bank land.
Olmert praised Mahmoud Abbas, whom he has met six times since the spring, as a trustworthy partner, but at the same time portrayed the Palestinian president, known as Abu Mazen, as weak. "I know that the gap between the honest and fair intentions of Abu Mazen and (Palestinian Prime Minister) Salam Fayyad, and their ability to translate that into reality is troublesome and arouses concerns," Olmert said.
Yep.
Olmert was heckled occasionally, but interruptions were mild for Israel's freewheeling parliament. "Is Jerusalem a dream?" legislator Reuven Rivlin shouted when Olmert, a former Jerusalem mayor, told parliament Israelis would have to forego some of their national dreams and aspirations.
Posted by Marisol at October 8, 2007 4:18 PM
Print this entry
| Email this entry
| Digg this
| del.icio.us
Support the establishment of a new homeland in the state of Israel. Give to the United Arab Appeal.
Posted by: poetcomic1![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at October 8, 2007 4:36 PM
If Muslims who believe the Koran to be infallible do no constitute an evil religion, which clearly sometime mandates the murder of innocent humans, and the persecution of those people who do not believe that every word of the Koran is perfect by forcing them into an ill-treated servant class forever, then why should we complain about them at all? And how can we Complain about them at all? Were not many Germans acting murderously yet we did not hold their Bible to be evil did we? Well, would anyone dare to say that the Koran and all those Muslims who follow it are a basically murderous and unfixable RELIGION? No? I thought not. God forbid that we should become RELIGIOUSLY INCORRECT
Posted by: tom at October 8, 2007 4:55 PM
"told parliament Israelis would have to forego some of their national dreams and aspirations."
...how about telling the Palestinians they would have to forgo some of their national dreams and aspirations?.....
at October 8, 2007 5:01 PM
Jerusalem should be declared an independent city-state like Vatican City and made the new headquarters of, and be governed by, the United Nations.
This will make everyone unhappy, which makes it a perfect compromise.
Posted by: USBeast at October 8, 2007 5:06 PM
Bad idea. The muslims will just want more after they get what they want in Jerusalem.
What should the Jews do? Destroy the mosque - get rid of it permanently. They allowed it to be built and because it is on their land - get rid of it. There is no tie between islam to either of the other two religions - Judaism and Christianity - so just get rid of it. Level it.
The muslims are perturbed with them now - they lob bombs into Israel daily for the West Bank, for more of Israel around Gaza, for whatever reason around Lebanon's borders - so what is different if they just level the mosque to their hatred now? none.
at October 8, 2007 5:12 PM
JERUSALEM - Two senior Israeli politicians, including the prime minister's closest ally, talked openly Monday about dividing Jerusalem
Stand back....lightening is going to strike.
There are quite a lot of warnings about dividing God's land.
at October 8, 2007 7:34 PM
The Idiot Olmert government is a disaster NEEDING to be overthrown before it totally destroys Israel. If this does not happen then the West should quit supporting a nation bent on destroying itself. Why should the US or any other nation spend billions and apparently needlessly alienate the ummah by backing a nation that refuses to defend itself? If Israel wants to disappear then at least the cesspoolians will be at the point of put up or shut up-after all, the jihadist crazies always point to the "palestinian problem" as a motivating force.
I hope it doesn't happen but if Israel does decide to disappear, I hope it goes out with a bang and not a whimper.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at October 8, 2007 7:47 PM
What they really need to do is announce that scholars have determined that the Muslim claim to the Al-Aqsa Mosque site, based on Mohammad's "Night Journey" to "the farthest mosque", is invalid.
Because there was no mosque in Jerusalem during Mohammad's lifetime, thus his mythical journey there could not have happened.
Period.
Then evict the Mohammedans from the spot and rebuild the Hebrew Temple on its original Mount home.
No synagogues in Saudi, no mosques in Jerusalem.
No churches in Saudi, no mosques in the West.
Posted by: profitsbeard at October 8, 2007 8:11 PM
The Arabs have vastly inferior militery capabilities, and yet they are the ones gaining territory.
Don't we measure militery progress by taking land and holding? So who is winning the war?
And if we are losing the war now, when all the odds are in our favor, then what does that mean for the future?
Posted by: GuitarBob at October 8, 2007 10:26 PM
Olmert, Bush's lap dog, is pressured to give up not just some city, but the capital of the State of Israel. This modern Jewish anti-Jew is leading a weak, defensive war against Israel's external Muslim enemies, and a vigorous, offensive war against Judaism. The ancestors of this shameless, deranged traitor are spinning in their graves.
Posted by: US_infidel at October 8, 2007 10:52 PM
We are too effete and weak and confused to win even against mindless savages who follow to the letter a deranged and psychotic book called the Koran - how else can you explain their great victories over us? We kill our own babies because we do not know that the definition of "fetus" in Latin is "Baby"! I would help you fight them if you would just stop killing your babies long enough to pay attention to the fact that they are out populating us - if this war is going to go on for a while, does it make any sense at all to keep murdering our western babies? How can we hope to take Jerusalem away from destruction when we can't tell sense from non-sense?
Posted by: tom at October 8, 2007 11:15 PM
True, tom, it is suicidal of the West to permit abortion.
The rise of the West came with scientific discovery, where medical knowledge and practices decreased the birth mortality rate.
Now we are voluntarily killing our future, while the Muslims are fecund.
It's a game of the last man standing. And so far, we're losing.
Posted by: atheling at October 8, 2007 11:59 PM
Olmert is a spineless traitor and a fool, and he's leading Israel into an abyss. This decision to divide the land will cost more lives -- that of his own people.
He's fooling himself if he thinks that this is all about real estate and that they will be satisfied with a portion of Israel/Jerusalem. They don't just want a piece of Israel, they want ALL of it; but what they really want is to destroy the Jews, the land is just a bonus.
The Palestinians are nothing more than a pawn -- a means to an end.
Posted by: champ at October 9, 2007 12:42 AM
Does anyone know if Robert or Hugh have prepared Q & A for people who wish to debate about Islam?
Quotes from various sources would also be useful.
Posted by: Big Luke at October 9, 2007 7:04 AM
This is sad. Seeing the one country that is a lonely beacon of light commit suicide in my lifetime is so hard to take. I feel to weep.
Posted by: Jauhara Al-Kafirah at October 9, 2007 8:34 AM
THIS is unbelievable. Honestly, if this was J K Rowlings' world, the only explanation would be that Olmert and company have been placed under the Confundus charm, or the Imperius charm. They are not in their right minds.
To get an idea of the sheer effrontery and vicious sadism of the strident ‘Palestinian’ Arab Muslim demand – not request, demand - that they should have Judaism’s central holiest city as their trophy capital, and my sheer astonishment that any Jew should even consider that request for five seconds, I submit the following. Know from it, what Jerusalem means to the Jews.
I found it in the ‘Israel insider’ blog some time ago. The first time I read it I nearly wept – I who am a Gentile Christian.
‘visiting the wall’: from Israel Insider.
“On the morning of Shavuot June 15, 1967, JUST SIX DAYS AFTER the liberation of the Old City of Jerusalem following the Six Day War, the Old City was officially opened to the Israeli public.
For the first time in almost two thousand years, masses of Jews could visit the Western Wall and walk through the cherished streets of Judaism's capital city as members of the sovereign Jewish nation. Each Jew who ventured to the Western Wall on that unforgettable day represented the living realization of their ancestors' dreams over the millennia. It was one of those rare, euphoric moments in history.
From the late hours of the night, thousands of Jerusalem residents streamed towards Zion gate, eagerly awaiting entry into the Old City. At 4 a.m., the accumulating crowds were finally allowed to enter the area of the Western Wall. The first Minyan (traditional quorum of ten men) soon began. Over fifteen hundred people shared that special moment. As the sun continued to rise, there was a steady flow of thousands who made their way to the Old City.
In total, two hundred thousand visited the Western Wall that day. It was the first pilgrimage, en masse, of Jews to Jewish-controlled Jerusalem on a Jewish festival in two thousand years, since the pilgrimages for the festivals in Temple times.
The 'Jerusalem Post' described the epic scene:
"Every section of the population was represented. Kibbutz members and soldiers rubbing shoulders with Neturei Karta. Mothers came with children in prams, and old men trudged steeply up Mount Zion, supported by youngsters on either side, to see the wall of the Temple before the end of their days.
"Some wept, but most faces were wreathed in smiles. For thirteen continuous hours a colorful variety of all peoples trudged along in perfect order, stepping patiently when told to do so at each of six successive barriers set up by the police to regulate the flow."
An eyewitness described the moment:
"I've never known so electric an atmosphere before or since. Wherever we stopped, we began to dance. Holding aloft Torah scrolls we swayed and danced and sang at the tops of our voices. So many of the Psalms and songs are about Jerusalem and Zion and the words reached into us a new life. As the sky lightened, we reached the Zion gate. Still singing and dancing, we poured into the narrow alleyways beyond."
On Shavuot, three thousand two hundred and seventy nine years earlier, the Israelites stood at Mount Sinai and felt the gravity of the moment as a unique relationship was formed between themselves and their Creator.
On the day of Shavuot following Israel's amazing victory of the Six-Day War, multitudes ascended to the Western Wall, as their ancestors had done in the past, and they celebrated the holiday just a short distance from the Temple Mount. They, too, felt the magic of the moment.”
NOTE: Shavuot, the Feast of the Weeks, is the Jewish holiday celebrating the harvest season in Israel. Shavuot, which means "weeks", refers to the timing of the festival which is held exactly seven weeks after Passover.
at October 9, 2007 3:43 PM
Not to worry. These much touted peace talks in Anapolis will go nowhere, like all of the other phony peace talks and peace agreements. Hamas will set to that. This is just another delusional, useless gesture dreamed up by Bush and Company, while the terrorists laugh, rearm, and plot.
Posted by: usapatriot at October 9, 2007 11:46 PM
Comments are turned off and archived for this entry.
(Note: The Comments section is provided in the interests of free speech only. It is mostly unmoderated, but comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying stand a chance of being deleted. The fact that any comment remains on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch, or by Robert Spencer or any other Jihad Watch or Dhimmi Watch writer, of any view expressed, fact alleged, or link provided in that comment.)