Chances of Turkey joining the EU: zero.
So relax, people. It ain't happening.
Have some Turkish beer and chill.

Posted by: RoobartSbunsar at December 1, 2007 8:22 AM

RoobartSbunsar wrote: "Chances of Turkey joining the EU: zero."

I believe the chance = 1, and it will not take long before it happens. Just observe the internal political development in the EU.

When the new Ottomans in a couple of decades have gained power in the rest of Europe and have reestablished their Caliph in occupied Constantinople, time will be ripe for including also America in the Dar al-Islam.

Aren't you aware that this is their irresistible aim?

Posted by: Osmund Bindalen at December 1, 2007 10:37 AM

So "ultranationalist" is the new code for Islamic?

We need a Dhimmi's Handy Universal Thesaurus.

"Asians". "Youths". "Disaffected". "Disadavantaged". "Restive".

The list of intentional obfuscations grows.

Posted by: profitsbeard at December 1, 2007 11:30 AM

Conversion to Christianity = Insulting Turkishness

Is Turkey a country or a religion? Oh, that's right, it's both, since in an Islamic nation there is no difference.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at December 1, 2007 12:04 PM

Just like Hugh pointed out in his essay not too long ago, he secularism in Turkey is only skin deep.

Posted by: SerbInfidel at December 1, 2007 1:28 PM

This just goes to show that we must include Turkey in the EU at the earliest possible opportunity, in order to bolster the power of the secularists who oppose this sort of thing.

Meanwhile Europe will benefit from access to Turkish markets and labour:The resultant increased growth in Turkey will reduce the poverty and unemployment which is the root cause of this kind of obscuranticism and anti-democratic behaviour.

Then there is the increased military power that will accede to the EU. Think of the strategic advantages that a stabilising power like Europe, with a newly unified military capability, would enjoy when it borders on Iran, Syria and Iraq.

As far as the UK and Finnish governments go (and, crucially, the EU Commission) it's a win/win situation. There is something vaguely racist and discreditable about the way people like Merkel and Sarkozy appeal to the basest prejudices of their electorates by opposing full Turkish membership.

The truth is that it would be a crime to miss this great opportunity to prove that Muslims and Christians can live side by side and show that the EU is not just a Christian club. What sort of hostile signals would we be sending to the Muslim world if we excluded even a moderate, democratic and secular state simply because of the religion of its population?

I don't waste my time writing to my MP opposing Turkish entry: I'd only get this sort of nonsense in reply, if he deigned to respond at all to someone who was such an evident Islamophobe.

Posted by: wallyUK at December 1, 2007 2:12 PM

"Just like Hugh pointed out in his essay not too long ago, he secularism in Turkey is only skin deep."

Not necessarily. It's true that the number of Turkish secularists is smaller than most people think--but I don't question their militant commitment to it. Not for a moment.

Unlike Arab states, Turkey does have a lot of people who would die to keep jihad from taking over. And that gives me some optimism. Not a lot, mind you. Just a sliver.

Posted by: RoobartSbunsar at December 1, 2007 2:34 PM

In 2001 there were an estimated two or three thousand Turkish-background, Muslim-background Christian believers in Turkey.

Two of the three Christians who were sadistically murdered in Turkey, earlier this year, by Muslim fanatics, were converts to Christianity from Islam, and had Turkish personal names.

One can only imagine the rejoicing in heaven (I speak as a Christian) when people descended from the violent Muslim invaders who burned churches, raped nuns, robbed, enslaved and butchered Christians, now go down into the waters of baptism, embracing the faith that their forefathers treated with such murderous contempt.

God bless Hakan Tastan and Turan Topal. May they stand firm in the Lord Jesus and give a good testimony.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at December 2, 2007 4:20 AM

"The truth is that it would be a crime to miss this great opportunity to prove that Muslims and Christians can live side by side and show that the EU is not just a Christian club. What sort of hostile signals would we be sending to the Muslim world if we excluded even a moderate, democratic and secular state simply because of the religion of its population?"

It truly is sad that people view Turkey's accession into Europe in these terms. I fear many do think this way and it is foolhardy to think that Turkey would be a benign force on Europe. It would without a doubt be the Trojan Horse that topples Europe once and for all.

I have a link here to a story about a Greek American war hero. This article is striking to show the contrast between past US Presidents and the current crop. How the great US has become a weak kneed wimp when dealing with hostile Turkey is beyond me?

http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php/George_Dilboy

Posted by: The fanatic at December 2, 2007 3:41 PM

The Turks are always characterized as "secular" muslims but this seems oxy-moronic to me. There is nothing secular about them. They are the most humorless and hyper-sensitive muslims, offended by everything other than glowing praise for Turkey and Islam. In my opinion the Turks are responsible for creating most of the problems between Europeans and the various muslim groups. Their admission into the EU will be the final chapter on the Turkish conquest of Byzantium. They will finally have forced their despised enemies (non-Turkish Europeans) to accept them as political equals. I hope that the Europeans understand this and refuse to allow it.

Posted by: HereticInfidel at December 3, 2007 8:20 AM