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It's voluntary, we're told endlessly. And it is, except when it isn't. "Teen girl in critical condition after alleged dispute over hijab," by Barry Hertz in the National Post (thanks to LGF):
A 16-year-old girl is in critical condition after being choked by a man believed to be her father, apparently after a dispute with her family over her refusal to wear the hijab, the Islamic headscarf worn by some Muslim women.The Post's Chris Wattie updates this developing story:
Peel Regional Police arrested a 57-year-old man yesterday morning after receiving a 911 call from a suburban home in Mississauga from a man saying he had killed his daughter. When police and paramedics arrived at the house they found a 16-year-old lying on the floor without any vital signs, police said....However, early police reports indicated the teenager had been choked and that the attacker was her father.
The girl was rushed to Credit Valley Hospital and later transferred to the Hospital for Sick Children, where she was listed in critical condition last night with life-threatening injuries.
Her condition is so grave that police have not yet charged the man arrested at the scene until they know whether he will be charged with murder or attempted murder. He was scheduled to appear in Brampton court on Tuesday.
Friends of the teenager, a Grade 11 student at nearby Applewood Heights high school, identified her as Aqsa Parvez and said they were shocked by the attack on the outgoing, likeable girl, but said she had been threatened by her strictly religious family before.
“She got threatened by her father and her brother,” said Dominiquia Holmes-Thompson, who had known Aqsa since they both started high school together. “He said that if she leaves, he would kill her.”
Ebonie Mitchell, 16, another friend of the victim, said the conflict with her father over wearing Islamic dress came to a head at the beginning of this school year. “She just wanted to dress like we do,” she said.
“Last year she wore like the Islamic stuff and everything, the hijab, and this year she’s all Western. She just wanted to look like everyone else. And I guess her dad had a problem with that.”
I guess he did.
Posted by Robert at December 11, 2007 8:25 AM
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This girl should be the poster child to show just how essentially mean-spirited this idealogy actually is.
The fact that western news doesn't follow this story speaks volumes as to who actually controls our news.
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at December 11, 2007 8:50 AM
Qur'an 24:31
And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands......
It's only voluntary if you deem obeying the supposedly divine mandates of the Qur'an as voluntary.
Posted by: awake at December 11, 2007 8:56 AM
Islam elevates women, we are told. Elevates them from what to what?
And yes, the ones we should blame the most for this are the western media outlets who don't confront the islamic community when things like these happen. HOw many young people will have to die until we realize that Islam is a demonic belief system, and it has no place in civilized nations?
Ban Muslim Imigration
Posted by: Crusader at December 11, 2007 8:57 AM
The West is no place to raise a decent Muslim family. May it remain so, for ever: no place ot raise a decent Muslim family, given what that, in the largest sense, implies or means. Those however who in the West, free from the constraints, societal and family (the Muslim family, backed up by the Muslim society and the Muslim state), shed Islam, and become apostates, or at least Muslims-for-identification-purposes Muslims, will find the West something to be embraced, its freedoms supported, while those who remain real Muslims will not embrace the Infidels among whom, and the Infidel nation-state within which, they have managed to settle, and will work to chip away at those Infidel freedoms, even while exploiting some of them, in order to remove every barrier to the spread, and then hoped-for dominance, of Islam.
Muslims should be told not, as Karen Hughes naively did, that Muslim life in America is thriving, and isn't it all so wonderful, but rather that it is difficult to live islamically, and still fit in, in America and the rest of the West, and as Infidels learn more and more about Islam, become more and more wary and disturbed, it will only become -- as from our point of view it should -- more difficult.
Instead of doing everything to accommodate, by changing our legal and political institutions, and social arrangements, Islam, and the mores of the ruling Muslim male, Western societies should be reinforcing those barriers, with volunteers supplementing the work of the government, in piling high those sandbags. Some may be discouraged from coming to those places where their numbers are not large and the Infidels are now, too early, wary. Others may decide to leave, whether to participate in the oil bonanza if they came form oil-states (or can obtain work in the Gulf), others to participate in Jihad (Iraq, Somalia), others simply to remain among fellow Muslims, in a Muslim state, where Islam rules.
Otherwise there will be more such incidents, telling but entirely comprehensible to those who know what Islam is all about, a source of wonderment to those who do not (and may think it is just a particular father, behaving inexplicably), as this attempted murder in Mississisauga. And it could just as easily have been a Muslim family in Mississippi, or anywhere else in the Western world.
at December 11, 2007 9:13 AM
All cultures are equal, right?
Posted by: Elric66 at December 11, 2007 9:26 AM
This would have made a humorous episode on Little Mosque on the Prairie.
Posted by: poetcomic1 at December 11, 2007 9:32 AM
Sorry, OT:
Yes, all cultures are equal. But some cultures are more equal. The Maledives just decided to withdraw citizenship of non-Muslims.
http://www.inspiremagazine.org.uk/news.aspx?action=view&id=1938
This is a UN-Member, a treasured holiday destination and none of the mainstream media is uttering a peep. And I guess people will continue to go snorkeling in this lost paradise.
Posted by: buraq_is_dead at December 11, 2007 9:37 AM
buraq_is_dead,
I would love to see Animal Farm rewritten with Muslims replacing Communists.
Posted by: Elric66 at December 11, 2007 9:46 AM
Elric66
Sometimes I have the grim feeling it is rewritten right in front of our eyes. JW/DW is the chronicler and we live right in it.
Posted by: buraq_is_dead at December 11, 2007 10:07 AM
Let us all bear in mind the state of "Islamic dress" before the revolution in Iran. In most cosmopolitean cities in the Middle East, women wore "Western" clothes. The emphasis on "Islamic dress" is a Radical Jihad Islamofacist by-product.
The assault in Ontario is typical of Radical Jihad Islamofacists - your wife and children are just punching bags.
Posted by: tanstaafl at December 11, 2007 10:14 AM
Good point, the Islamic world is Animal Farm and great blogs like this are chronicling it as it happens.
Posted by: Elric66 at December 11, 2007 10:16 AM
Assalamau Laikum all,
Obviously another very sad case, what a waste of a young life and once again what a demonstration of poor parenting skills when up against it.
It was obvious that the father was not getting through to her....and like I said (yesterday), the father feels that he has no-one to talk to....this is a weak point particularily in Muslim men,.... as a start, imams need to hold conselling sessions in mosques to whom ever requires it....in confidence...muslim childrens in the West are subjected to huge pressures and kaffur corruption...and parents must learn to start to cope ....or move back to Pak.
Superior physical strength does not mean that you are superior....why couldn't the father give a little in exchange for taking a little.
Like I said my own pathetic son wants to wed a kaffur (but she only wants to settle in the UK....Pak she says is a little too "foreign").
This is a sensitive issue...and one that has been difficult to negotiate....but I am constantly looking at the Qua'ran for inspiration....I too have no one to talk to.
I think that perhaps the most important comprehensive answer to settle issues like these is learned from is this short Ayat from the Glorious Qur'an Sharif in Surah Adh-Dhariyat 51:56
“And I created not the Jinn and Mankind except that they should worship ME”.
Everything else simply follows from this Ayat.
Rather then being ashamed of the hijab (which she most likely was) being a muslima, she has a responsibility to tell others about Islam ("Da'wah").
Clearly her father could not impart this knowledge onto her....and then the bastard took the only other route that he understood.
The father himself (being devout and all) forgot that most important saying
La Howla Wa La Quwata Illa BiLLah -
There is no Effort or Power except with Allah's Will.
If he had cared to remember Allah's will ...he would have kept his filthy hands off her neck.
I shall pray to Allah SWT for her well being...
Posted by: Naseem at December 11, 2007 11:01 AM
Why can't these losers stay in cesspoolia if they insist on living like that? No-they have to head West and make a toilet of our civilization as well. Then they wonder why infidels look at them funny. Gee, what do they expect, a standing ovation for this type of behavior? Just get the hell out of here and take your ancient, barbaric customs with you to their places of origin-we don't want this crap here.
at December 11, 2007 11:09 AM
This is an example of 'family values' in islam. Another example is 'honor killings'.
yep, that 'religion of peace' certainly is an example of that.
Posted by: R_not at December 11, 2007 11:12 AM
UPDATE: Aqsa Parvez has reportedly died. [source]
This has been confirmed by Peel Regional Police.
"The victim’s 57 year-old father, Muhammad PARVEZ, was arrested at the scene. He is due to appear today in a Brampton Court, at which time he will be formally charged with Murder. The victim’s 26 year-old brother, Waqas PARVEZ, was also charged with Obstruct Police in this investigation."
[source]
One line of investigation that should be kept open is that a younger male family member killed her and that the father is covering for him.
Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at December 11, 2007 11:12 AM
"Obviously another very sad case, what a waste of a young life"...
Posted by: Naseem at December 11, 2007 11:01 AM
I concur, fully. Embracing the physical and mental slavery of Islam is indeed a waste of a young life.
at December 11, 2007 11:16 AM
Now National Post is claiming Peel Police have not confirmed her death.
But 680 News reports that
"School officials announced Aqsa Parvez's death to students at Applewood Heights Secondary School this morning."
Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at December 11, 2007 11:21 AM
Here's the latest:
"Girl has died, Peel police confirm
Posted: December 11, 2007, 10:17 AM by Rob Roberts
Peel police just issued the following release:
Peel Police - 16 Year-Old Girl Succumbs to Injuries
December 11, 2007"
at December 11, 2007 11:28 AM
"I shall pray to Allah SWT for her well being..."
You can pray for the repose of her soul. The update on the link above says the poor girl is now dead.
"Clearly her father could not impart this knowledge onto her....and then the bastard took the only other route that he understood."
And where did her learn that, Naseem? Certainly not from the corrupted kaffur. Nope, he came up with that because he is a Muslim and as a Muslim, he is encouraged to take the "other route." Why do you come here and act like this isn't an integral part of Islam? If it were not it would be the exception, not the norm.
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 11, 2007 11:33 AM
My apologies for the confusion above. National Post did make the update, and their coverage of this story has been good, unlike several other sources which have deliberately obscured the Islamic aspects of the story.
Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at December 11, 2007 11:36 AM
I went back and re-read the whole article and it reads like a comic book of a stereotypical Muslim family: the dad and his son are both named Muhammad. The dad drives a taxi. There are multiple families living in the house. They never spoke to the neighbors except for an occasional hello. The dad and the brother threatened the girl before now. She moved out and when she went back to get her clothes and personal things her dad attacked her. The girl is now dead. And the family in question are Muslims from Pakistan.
How man more Asqa's are going to have to die before we admit as a society that these people are dangerous and something needs to be done about preventing the spread of the infectious disease that is Islam?
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 11, 2007 11:43 AM
Nasseem says, "...my own pathetic son wants to wed a kaffur". So, Nassem, apparently your and husband's "poor parenting skills when up against it" aren't a hell of a lot better.
Best wishes and mazel tov to your son and his lovely fiance!
at December 11, 2007 11:59 AM
"as a start, imams need to hold conselling sessions in mosques to whom ever requires it....in confidence...muslim childrens in the West are subjected to huge pressures and kaffur corruption...and parents must learn to start to cope ....or move back to Pak."
A better option might be escaping from religion and learning to live like free human beings.
If you are so against freedom (balanced by love, of course), then perhaps you'd all be happier in a theocracy or dictatorship somewhere else. The rest of us here in Ontario, however, want to keep Ontario free, as well as safe for those who choose not to follow their parents in their self-imposed slavery, also known as religion.
Posted by: The Christian Heretic at December 11, 2007 12:27 PM
Strange to say there was a programme on BBC Radio 4 this morning in which a young Sikh told how he spent years bringing his sister's killers to justice.
The interesting thing is that I think he said there were about 30 honour killings a year in the Sikh community when girls would be taken to India and just disappear. Given that the Sikhs have a high reputation in Britain for cultural moderation and integrity in business dealings - which no one ever ascribes to the Muslims - one must ask what the body-count is in the much larger Muslim community. The last I heard the British government had 3 safe houses in Pakistan to smuggle escaping brides out of the country.
BTY it is worth mentioning that a Muslim woman said when her parents were on the way to Britain 40 years ago her father removed her mother's headscarf during the flight. He told her “We are in England now you won't need that.” It shows that the more educated early immigrants were prepared to assimilate until the dumb **** liberals decided to invent a multicultural society.
at December 11, 2007 12:30 PM
"as well as safe for those who choose not to follow their parents in their self-imposed slavery, also known as religion."
Kinda generalizing arent you? You act like this could have just as easily happened with a Jewish, Hindu, Buddist or Christian family. In this war, we are all at risk, the religious non Muslims and athiests alike. If we are going to survive, we must stick together and comments like yours isnt going to help. You actually have more to lose than the religious.
at December 11, 2007 12:36 PM
Girl has died, Peel police confirm
Posted: December 11, 2007, 10:17 AM by Rob Roberts
Peel police just issued the following release:
Peel Police - 16 Year-Old Girl Succumbs to Injuries
December 11, 2007
Mississauga – The Peel Regional Police Homicide Bureau is continuing their investigation into the murder of a 16 year-old Mississauga girl.
On Monday, December 10, 2007, at 7:55 am, a 9-1-1 call was placed by a man who indicated that he had just killed his daughter. Officers attended a residence on Longhorn Trail in Mississauga, where the victim was located. Aqsa PARVEZ was rushed to hospital with life-threatening injuries, but tragically passed away late last night.
The victim’s 57 year-old father, Muhammad PARVEZ, was arrested at the scene. He is due to appear today in a Brampton Court, at which time he will be formally charged with Murder. The victim’s 26 year-old brother, Waqas PARVEZ, was also charged with Obstruct Police in this investigation.
Anyone with information is requested to contact them at (905) 453-2121 ext. 3205 or Peel Crime Stoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS (8477).
News Release Number: 07-233News Release Type: General InvestigativePolice Occurrence Number: 07-238151
at December 11, 2007 1:04 PM
That female Muslims above the age of puberty must cover up is not optional in traditional Islam because it is ordered in the Quran (33:59, also 24:30, 31, 58) and Sunnah. It is optional if Muslims choose to ignore it/explain it away; some do, some don't, hence the conflicts.
Ibn Kathir 33:59. The Command of Hijab
Asbab al-Nuzul of Al-Wahidi 33:58-59
"O Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks closely over themselves (jalābīb is the plural of jilbāb, which is a wrap that covers a woman totally) — in other words, let them pull part of it [also] over their faces, leaving one eye [visible], when they need to leave [the house] for something. That makes it likelier that they will be known, to be free women, and not be molested, by being approached. In contrast, slavegirls did not use to cover their faces and so the disbelievers used to pester them. And God is Forgiving, of any occasion in the past when they may have neglected to cover themselves, Merciful, to them in His veiling them."
"Every believing woman is commanded to cover herself with outer garments whenever she goes outside of her home."
The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam.
Qaradawi
The Display of Women's Adornment: What Is and What Is Not
The Lawful and Prohibited in Islam
Hadith
Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 32, Number 4092:
"Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: Asma, daughter of AbuBakr, entered upon the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) wearing thin clothes. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) turned his attention from her. He said: O Asma', when a woman reaches the age of menstruation, it does not suit her that she displays her parts of body except this and this, and he pointed to her face and hands."
at December 11, 2007 1:07 PM
Another muslima victim, another chance for Naseem to bemoan "poor parenting skills."
Poor parenting skills would include allowing you child to have cookies before dinner, or letting his homework go unfinished.
There's a cultural divide here that cannot be jumped by the most adept kangaroo. These things are not just sad, they are disastrous. But I'm living in the light where the truth can be seen.
Naseem, living in the dark world of Islam, can only sigh. Another day in hell.
Posted by: CapitalistGig at December 11, 2007 1:11 PM
Kinda generalizing arent you? You act like this could have just as easily happened with a Jewish, Hindu, Buddist or Christian family.
No, this in particular is only likely to happen in a Muslim family. Of all the popular religions out there, I agree that Islam is probably the worst. That said, horrible things do happen to people in families of all sorts of other religions too.
In this war, we are all at risk, the religious non Muslims and athiests alike. If we are going to survive, we must stick together and comments like yours isnt going to help. You actually have more to lose than the religious.
Just for the record, I'm not an Atheist. I'm a Christian who happens to be against religion (my take on Christianity is that it's not meant to be yet another religion but is supposed to be about freedom from religion in Christ).
While I have little patience for religion in general (religion being defined here as all the things (believing, behaving, worshipping, sacrificing) the human race has ever thought it had to do to get right with God, to quote my favorite theologian), I have even less patience for barbaric religions like Islam, and in this regard we are sticking together since I'd like to see it tamed or gone just as much as I assume you do.
Posted by: The Christian Heretic at December 11, 2007 1:31 PM
"Of all the popular religions out there, I agree that Islam is probably the worst."
Glad you agree since its Muslims that are blowing up, chopping heads off, rioting over the silliest things and killing their daughters for "honor".
You should take a hard look at Communist regimes and what "freedom from religion" means. Take a hard look at Europe and see what "freedom from "religion" created.
Posted by: Elric66 at December 11, 2007 1:39 PM
Here's a photo of this teenager, from the Toronto Star.
www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/284350
at December 11, 2007 1:41 PM
You should take a hard look at Communist regimes and what "freedom from religion" means. Take a hard look at Europe and see what "freedom from "religion" created.
Communism is just as much a religion as any theistic religion, simply substituting the state for a personal deity. I'm talking about actual freedom here (balanced by love, of course), not theocracy or dictatorships. :)
Posted by: The Christian Heretic at December 11, 2007 1:42 PM
stone-agers with a gutter religion
Posted by: MP at December 11, 2007 1:48 PM
"not theocracy or dictatorships. :)"
The only theocracies in the world are Islamic.
at December 11, 2007 1:51 PM
What a sin! That beautiful little girl. Her picture shows a lovely, vibrant child on the verge of womanhood. Her father should be put away for ever. Sadly we don't have the death penalty in Canada.
I used to live very close to Mississauga, which has just about been taken over by islamic immigrants. It is horrendous that this murder took place in Canada, in this day and age! This case will be interesting to follow - let's see how long it takes for someone to say that we must allow for cultural differences!
Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at December 11, 2007 2:01 PM
Like I said my own pathetic son wants to wed a kaffur (but she only wants to settle in the UK....Pak she says is a little too "foreign").Naseem
A few months ago, you were celebrating the possibility that 'Sara' would convert to your Ahmadiya Islam, thanks to your son. Now you are whining about him being pathetic? To an extent I agree with you - if 'Sara' is moronic enough to marry your son, she should move to Pakistan, instead of increasing the Mohammedan population in Britain - Ahmadiya or not. If she wants to remain in Britain, she should be the one dumping him. Actually, if she knows how Ahmadiyas are treated in Pakistan, can you blame her for not wanting to settle there?
As DaninVan mentioned above, your parenting skills don't seem to be much better than Mohammed Parvez, if you couldn't make your son pine for one of his cousins, or better yet, your daughter. Hope your daughter elopes with a local Christian or Sikh - it would be fun to see whether she's charged with apostasy, since Pakistan doesn't officially recognize Ahmadiyas as Muslims ;-)
Posted by: Infidel Pride at December 11, 2007 2:02 PM
Can you imagine if a Christian or Jewish Father had killed his daughter for dressing "slutty"? Wouldn't it be national news? Of course, some people don't see this as a problem that needs to be dealt with. Until the West gets on the same page on this issue, we can expect more deaths like this.
Posted by: kevin at December 11, 2007 2:06 PM
The only theocracies in the world are Islamic.
Currently. There have been plenty of other theocracies (Christian and otherwise) throughout history though.
Anyway, I'm not sure why we're arguing. Arguing about the differences in our world-views isn't sticking together on the problems with Islam.
Posted by: The Christian Heretic at December 11, 2007 2:06 PM
"my own pathetic son wants to wed a kaffur..." -Naseem
This statment is a great example of the differences between Islam and the West with regard to familial love. Unlike Naseem, I truly enjoy having my children in my life. They are bright, witty, and talented people. I would never even consider telling a bunch of strangers that I think my own kid is "pathetic" for marrying someone I may not like. I would do my best to support my kids' decisions even if I didn't particularly agree with all of their choices. Muslims are so completely focused on controlling their family members that they miss out on the God-given joy that comes with raising your kids to be self-sufficient, responsible adults. What a shame.
Posted by: Saorsa at December 11, 2007 2:10 PM
This man is guilty of a crime against humanity. He should therefore be hanged, preferably in the public square.
Crimes like this show that true Muslims have no soul. That's because they are demon-possessed, and we are actually seeing the soul of the demon, rather than of the father.
Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at December 11, 2007 2:12 PM
let's see how long it takes for someone to say that we must allow for cultural differences!
Those of us who enjoy multiculturalism aren't arguing that every aspect of one's culture (such as repression and murder) should be allowed to be practised. Cultural differences should be voluntary, not enforced by intolerant parents or government. As I've said, I believe strongly in freedom, but one's freedom to swing their fists around ends where another's face begins.
Posted by: The Christian Heretic at December 11, 2007 2:12 PM
"Anyway, I'm not sure why we're arguing. Arguing about the differences in our world-views isn't sticking together on the problems with Islam."
Islam is the the problem, I agree. I was just pointing out that bashing religion in general isnt a good way to go about that, especially calling out people who are religious are slaves. We are all in the same boat and no need to rock it. Respect your allies views and we will do the same. Hang together or hang seperatly.
at December 11, 2007 2:13 PM
"Those of us who enjoy multiculturalism aren't arguing that every aspect of one's culture (such as repression and murder) should be allowed to be practised. Cultural differences should be voluntary, not enforced by intolerant parents or government. As I've said, I believe strongly in freedom, but one's freedom to swing their fists around ends where another's face begins."
You got a better way to fight Islam?
at December 11, 2007 2:17 PM
"Saorsa"?
Good god, this site is apparently being invaded by people from Lewis and Harris. What's next? The Standing Stones of Callanish showing up in the middle of the Washington Mall? And Birnam Wood, apparently not satisfied at having come to Dunsinane, will make an appearance right on the Mall, next to the Smithsonian?
Posted by: Hugh at December 11, 2007 2:19 PM
"take your ancient, barbaric customs with you to their places of origin"
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 11, 2007 11:09 AM
Where are they going to go? The only lands that Muslims have are those they stole from others.
I guess we could give them Medina, because that's where their demonic religion started. But I'm not willing to budge on an inch more of territory than that.
By the way, at what point did we decide that the lands stolen by Muslims were to be considered Muslim lands?
Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at December 11, 2007 2:29 PM
...the young girl, previously among the living, gives proof the young Muslims prefer to dress and live as the young Non Muslims do....unfortunately, she also gives proof that Islam will kill to prevent it....
Ban Muslim Immigration....
Posted by: exsgtbrown at December 11, 2007 2:32 PM
Elric
I am with you. Islam cannot be authenically identified as a religion any more than...well, that is how I was barred from JW the last time. Islam only can be bashed here.
As for other religions, it is hard to find one as pervasive as Islam whose practices involve non-members as much as willing believers. Citizens of the world cannot be disaffected; everyone everywhere must be called into account for anything they say, do, or believe because Islam may be insulted.
Posted by: CapitalistGig at December 11, 2007 2:33 PM
CapitalistGig,
It is a religion but its also a culture, a political system, a nation (ummah), a race. Its all those things and its none. Thats part of the problem, it can be whatever it wants when the situation warrants it.
Posted by: Elric66 at December 11, 2007 2:35 PM
Islam is the the problem, I agree. I was just pointing out that bashing religion in general isnt a good way to go about that, especially calling out people who are religious are slaves. We are all in the same boat and no need to rock it. Respect your allies views and we will do the same. Hang together or hang seperatly.
The thing is, I see religion itself as the problem, with Islam (currently) being the worst manifestation of religion. That's not to say that I won't be fighting at your side against the danger that is Islam, since I will be, but one of my methods is always going to be fighting the root of the problem itself (religion in general). That said, it's not the religious I'm against, it's religion itself, so I am your ally even if we may disagree on who is and isn't a slave. :)
Posted by: The Christian Heretic at December 11, 2007 2:39 PM
It is a religion but its also a culture, a political system, a nation (ummah), a race. Its all those things and its none. Thats part of the problem, it can be whatever it wants when the situation warrants it.
Posted by: Elric66 at December 11, 2007 2:35 PM
----------------------------------------------
Islam is the Mafia; it is organized crime on a worldwide scale and with a military component; even down to the protection racket they run to extort money from those who aren't part of the "family"; and they'll kill you if you try to leave the "family".
at December 11, 2007 2:39 PM
Islam is the Mafia; it is organized crime on a worldwide scale and with a military component; even down to the protection racket they run to extort money from those who aren't part of the "family"; and they'll kill you if you try to leave the "family".
While I firmly believe that Islam is a religion, that's a great way to put it too. :)
Posted by: The Christian Heretic at December 11, 2007 2:42 PM
I wish it were an identifiable race. That would be easy.
Monday, a young fully covered woman (except face) came into Bank of America. A muslim, but a caucasian westerner. Problem: She could not use the drive-up window, because a man was handling all the transactions. Boy, did they scramble to accommodate this gal.
Funny part: The woman who wound up handling her transaction inside the bank was Indian, and wearing a large, jade-colored cross!
Posted by: CapitalistGig at December 11, 2007 2:42 PM
CapitalistGig,
"She could not use the drive-up window, because a man was handling all the transactions."
Thats just disgusting. I really need to change banks. I mean, what if you belong to a religion that beleives the members shouldnt associate with blacks or Asians? Would anyone accomodate them?
Posted by: Elric66 at December 11, 2007 2:45 PM
Unfortunately, this poor child died.
I can think of nothing to say about this horrible situation. It is an act of terrible cruelty that only a sociopath could conceive of.
Posted by: tanstaafl at December 11, 2007 2:46 PM
I hear you, Elric. I've wanted to switch for other reasons. I wish you could have seen the huddle this bank manager got into with these tellers. As if THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG TO UPSET this woman. Unbelievable.
Next time they'll probably put a woman at the drive-up window when they see her Hyundai coming.
She somehow managed to butt in front of an older gentleman, and as she was leaving, he wished her a Merry Christmas. When she frowned he changed it to Happy Hannukah. These are the things that make my day.
Posted by: CapitalistGig at December 11, 2007 2:52 PM
"When she frowned he changed it to Happy Hannukah."
LOL That would have made my day too.
at December 11, 2007 2:57 PM
Elric (and others) have focused solely on Islam regarding 'Honour Killings'. This is a disservice to those fighting this vile practice. I'm sure British Columbia isn't alone in it's recent experience with this in the Indo-Canadian community. There's been a series of brutal murders and assaults here, involving women from that society.
http://indocanadianonline.blogspot.com/2007/01/deceased-female-has-been-identified-as.html
Yes, by all means go after the zealots, but ALL of them!
at December 11, 2007 2:57 PM
"..she wanted to dress like us...like a normal person..."
...Islam...feel the love?.....
at December 11, 2007 2:58 PM
The Christian Heretic, you said:
Those of us who enjoy multiculturalism aren't arguing that every aspect of one's culture (such as repression and murder) should be allowed to be practised.
You, and in an opposite way the Right, notice only half the reality of what is called "multiculturalism."
The Right tends to notice in multiculturalism only the extreme relativism that is often a part of it together with a willingness to accept almost any form of non-Western tradition, no matter how despotic, backward, or cruel, as equal to or superior to Western civilization. By contrast the Left notices only the pluralism and freedom that are a part of "multiculturalism."
But if Left and Right are to join forces against the greatest totalitarian threat the West has ever faced, the Right needs to drop its refusal to recognize the good aspects of multiculturalism (what used to be called "pluralism,") and the Left needs to drop its refusal to see and reject the bad aspects of multiculturalism (mindless relativism).
I'm not saying that Left and Right are always equally at fault or should always agree. But to defeat Islamic totalitarianism, the democratic Left and Right need to do more to stop petty partisanship from getting mixed into legitimate disagreement and blinding us all. Any petty partisanship at this point only makes the free world riper for eventual defeat.
Posted by: traeh at December 11, 2007 3:17 PM
The Christian Heretic:
"Those of us who enjoy multiculturalism aren't arguing that every aspect of one's culture (such as repression and murder) should be allowed to be practised. Cultural differences should be voluntary, not enforced by intolerant parents or government. As I've said, I believe strongly in freedom, but one's freedom to swing their fists around ends where another's face begins."
If you "strongly believe freedom" and that "one's freedom to swing their fists around ends where another's face begins", either you are not a multiculturalist or the term is superfluous. The belief that "one's freedom to swing their fists around ends where another's face begins" isn't a display of multicultural "tolerance", but more a statement of how deeply the traditions of Western civilization are imbedded in your thought.
What are the limits of multiculturalism you'd like to "enjoy"? Nazism? Communism? Racism? No? On what basis do you exclude these ideas?
Multiculturalism is not the same as freedom, unless you consider tribal, anarchic violence to be freedom. The unwillingness to make discriminating value judgments is not a mark of intelligence and sophistication, but rather the lack of those qualities.
In the long run, refusal of educators and leaders to promote the idea of our nation as a melting pot will be our undoing.
at December 11, 2007 3:25 PM
DaninVan, Robert Spencer, and everyone:
I've read there are 5000 honor killings yearly around the world. Do you have any sources or info on what percentage of those are done by Muslims?
Posted by: traeh at December 11, 2007 3:27 PM
My beloved friends, praise be him.
This is a matter solely for Islamic juriprudence.
This is not a matter for civil courts. This is why it is important to help speed up the indoctrination od Sharia law into Canada.
Posted by: Mekoots at December 11, 2007 3:35 PM
Mekoots:
This is not a matter for civil courts. This is why it is important to help speed up the indoctrination od Sharia law into Canada.
You can't be for real.
So you're saying, "Yes, a little Islam will kill you, but take it all and it will cure you".
No thanks, a little of a bad idea is more than enough.
Posted by: RalphInfidel at December 11, 2007 3:47 PM
TANSTAFFELL: "I can think of nothing to say about this horrible situation. It is an act of terrible cruelty that only a sociopath could conceive of."
By every measure, this man was a normal, law-abiding citizen. His murderous violence came about solely as an extension of his religious beliefs.
Muslims proudly attribute low crime-rates to their religious laws (amputation for theft, etc). When will they acknowledge that honor killings - even if not overtly sanctioned - are equally attributable to the status of women in Islamic jurisprudence and ethics?
The Prophet Muhammad as recorded by Bukari:
"Women are deficient in intelligence and religion."
"The majority of the residents in hell are women."
Posted by: Cornelius at December 11, 2007 3:56 PM
The thing is, I see religion itself as the problem, with Islam (currently) being the worst manifestation of religion. That's not to say that I won't be fighting at your side against the danger that is Islam, since I will be, but one of my methods is always going to be fighting the root of the problem itself (religion in general).
Posted by: The Christian Heretic at December 11, 2007 2:39 PM
The problem is that your goals are far too lofty. Fighting against "religion" is futile. Evwen fighting against the existence of Islam is futile. The fight should be against the agressive spread of global Islamization.
Islam is currently on the offence on many fronts. We need to stay focused and not let ourselves be distracted with past transgressions by theocratic regimes or worry about a possible uprising of radical Buddhists.
Posted by: awake at December 11, 2007 4:00 PM
Regarding
"Muslims are so completely focused on controlling their family members ... "
Posted by: Saorsa December 11, 2007 2:10 PM
--------------
Part of this goes back to the definition of "Abrahamic religion": the belief that Abraham WAS told by God to sacrifice his son, and the belief that Abraham's willingness to obey God and slay his child was a "Really Good Thing".
This leads inexorably to "Follow (what you think is) God even if he commands you to do evil"; for some people the "follow God" part obscures the "do evil" part.
If you're going to engage the world from an alternate or subjective reality, from belief/faith/indoctrination (as opposed to objective reality, where experience of the visible/tangible leads you to judge "this is good, this is bad, this is not fair"), you're in real danger of losing yourself to evil. Total faith without the corrective input of reality is, in essence, madness. "I am going to follow my idea of God even if that means killing you or me or my children or destroying the world itself" is NOT wonderful/holy/good, even though the lesson of Abraham tells us it is, and that if we are TRULY WILLING to do the abhorrent, God will give us an alternative sacrifice. (That doesn't seem to happen much, out here in the real, physical world, does it?)
I think the lesson for all three religions is that "my idea of what God wants" can be flawed; that there needs to be some objective and universal way of verifying whether we're following the will of God or of some Unsavory Impostor. (The Golden Rule --"do unto others"-- works fairly well for 2 of the 3.)
If it were up to me, I'd change the focus of the "Abrahamic religions" to stop praising Abraham for his obedience; I'd stop considering him a model for our behavior. The results are in and they're grim.
So to any Christians, Jews, or Muslims out there: if you think God is telling you to go kill somebody -- Don't do it.
Posted by: A_Nonny_Mouse at December 11, 2007 4:04 PM
Folks, regarding the possibility that this was an 'honor killing,' that is plausible. However, I would keep open the possibility, at this stage, that there could have been more to this. It could be the case that the father (who was described as very devout) perceived that the young woman had blasphemed or had become an apostate. It is also difficult to separate these issues, since refusing to wear Islamic attire could be seen as disputing verses of the Quran (blasphemy) or abandonment of a significant tenet of the faith constituting apostasy. It is also possible that she may have blasphemed or apostatized in some other way, in addition to running afoul of the Islamic attire specifications.
Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at December 11, 2007 4:19 PM
A Nonny_Mouse...
When I hear an atheist make a moral judgment (even those I agree with), the question arises in my mind, "Where does the judgment come from?"
How do we know what is good and what is bad, except from a religious tradition? It doesn't seem to me that the creature has an innate understanding of this.
In Saudi Arabia or even Pakistan, the father of this poor girl would be shown leniency. And in Canada, he'll be imprisoned... for how long? With time off for polite behavior.
at December 11, 2007 4:44 PM
Mekoots:
"This is a matter solely for Islamic juriprudence.
This is not a matter for civil courts. This is why it is important to help speed up the indoctrination od Sharia law into Canada."
---------------
You are completely wrong, wrong, a thousand times WRONG!
If you (or anybody) move to Canada, you are subject to the laws of that country. In this case, someone committed murder and should be put away for life! Islamic jurisprudence is completely irrelevant here.
If the father wanted his family to be under Sharia law, he picked the wrong country. He should've moved to Saudi Arabia. But he didn't, so you are completely wrong.
The murderer deserves the full penalty of law (and maybe even more, since they apparently don't have capital punishment in Canada.)
By the way, did you notice that; in the Western world, the death penalty is only called for if you take anothers' life, not if you take off your scarf?
I say forget multiculturalism; our culture is better! Case closed!
Posted by: Mo Foe at December 11, 2007 5:12 PM
"...regarding the possibility that this was an 'honor killing'..."
Let's not split hairs, all, regarding the root of the problem here. The problem is not religion in general, the problem is Islam.
The problem is not blasphemy or apostasy, the problem is Islam.
The problem is not civil court involvement, either. The father acted as judge and executioner in adminstering sharia law. Strangling a person to the point of death, unless their neck is broken in the process, takes a minute or two of deliberate, intense action. He thought about it and called the police himself.
Multiculturalism, or that aspect of social equivocation that amounts to de-valueing our own highly evolved, Judeo-Christian culture and allowing these outposts of sharia "family vigilantism" such as we have in Michigan, will be the beginning of the end.
Posted by: CapitalistGig at December 11, 2007 5:15 PM
KHAYBAR OASIS: "Folks, regarding the possibility that this was an 'honor killing,' that is plausible. However, I would keep open the possibility, at this stage, that there could have been more to this..."
RESPONSE: There seems to be a misconception here. MANY of not most honor killings among Muslims occurs under similar circumstances, i.e., a Muslim woman's rejection of her faith.
Consigning the definition of "honor killing" to unlawful contact with the opposite sex is entirely arbitrary. Like so many other Muslim girls and women, Aqsa Parvez was murdered because she rejected some (or all) of the tenets of Islam and therefore "dishonored" the family.
This was an "honor killing" in every sense of the word.
Posted by: Cornelius at December 11, 2007 5:30 PM
Traeh asked; "I've read there are 5000 honor killings yearly around the world. Do you have any sources or info on what percentage of those are done by Muslims?"
Traeh, unfortunately, that 5K figure barely covers the brides murdered in India. news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html
At least India recognizes there's a problem and is trying to deal with it, hence the large number of Google hits on India, vs Islamic countries.
The Islamic states worldwide, have first to accept that there's a grievous travesty of justice, and then do something about it. Finding any useful Muslim data is pretty difficult; I doubt they bother to keep stats...
at December 11, 2007 8:56 PM
This should be written up as a hate crime and appropriate additional penalties applied.
Posted by: Monte Gardner at December 11, 2007 9:37 PM
Here is a good start:
http://www.nationalpost.com/rss/story.html?id=159479
at December 11, 2007 10:39 PM
Animals, these devout Mohammedans. Killing a daughter because she refused to cover her head with one of Muhammad's sexist shrouds.
Animals who expect to be treated with respect and dignity, yet crawl and slither on their bellies like serpents and worms.
Posted by: Prickzilla at December 11, 2007 11:10 PM
"Ontario: Father nearly chokes girl to death after she refuses to wear hijab"
Update:
Ontario: Father chokes girl to death after she refuses to wear hijab
Posted by: Prickzilla at December 11, 2007 11:12 PM
Cornelius,
"Consigning the definition of "honor killing" to unlawful contact with the opposite sex is entirely arbitrary."
Right, but I don't think I implied that, or at least didn't intend to imply that, in my post. The open-ended nature of the category "honor killing" would include killing for apostasy or blasphemy, among any number of transgressions of Islam.
The point I want to make most clear is that at this stage we don't know exactly what motivated the father (if the father) to kill the daughter. One hypothesis is that she was killed over a dispute about the hijab. But was that in itself enough to motivate him to kill? What if she also declared apostasy or blasphemed? I suspect that there was more than one transgression of sharia, but we will have to wait to see what information comes out.
Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at December 12, 2007 2:15 AM
CapitalisGig,
I said: "...regarding the possibility that this was an 'honor killing'..."
You said: "Let's not split hairs, all, regarding the root of the problem here. The problem is not religion in general, the problem is Islam."
I claimed nothing, in the post you quoted, about religion in general. I'm speculating about the motive for murder. I'm asking what in sharia (Islam) would motivate this reportedly devout Muslim man to kill his own daughter. Because there is no death penalty for not wearing a hijab, but there is the death penalty (currently, in Islam) for either apostasy or blasphemy, it is a reasonable possibility that the father perceived his daughter to have made one (or more) other transgressions which he believed warranted death as a penalty.
I don't think it's hair-splitting to speculate about something more precise as a motive, or combination of motives, that leads to a clearer understanding of what happened. To me the category honor killing is not very informative, and indeed serves to obscure the Islamic component. While this crime might be classified as an honor killing, that classification itself, on its own, is too vague.
Posted by: Khaybar Oasis at December 12, 2007 2:46 AM
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