"The idea in public schools is that everybody feels welcome and has a sense of comfort with the celebrations. I think it's being sensitive to not only the students in the choir, but also to the general population,"
Christians excepted of course.
Let's drop Allah from Eid in the spirit of comfort to all.
How about banning a hot rum toddy during Christmas so as not to offend muslims.
I can only speak for myself, but I am getting very close to boiling point.

Posted by: Stephen Gash SIOE England at December 20, 2007 10:06 AM

Somebody needs to invent a time machine. I just can't stand living in this absurd century any more!

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 20, 2007 10:29 AM

It only gets worse from here

Posted by: Sneakyzionistcrusader at December 20, 2007 10:35 AM

When the heck are we going to say that we are offended by islam, atheists, etc and their wanting us to be eliminated?!! I do it all the time when told I cannot say something! PEOPLE START SPEAKING UP!

I will post this again - this is Hugh's version which is more correct - but if we don't start demanding that we have a right too - we will be vanished.

Roosevelt's text, again:
"It is utterly impossible to appreciate social values at all or to discriminate between what is socially good and socially bad unless we appreciate the utterly different social values of different wars. The Greeks who triumphed at Marathon and Salamis did a work without which the world would have been deprived of the social value of Plato and Aristotle, of Aeschylus, Herodotus, and Thucydides. The civilization of Europe, America, and Australia exists today at all only because of the victories of civilized man over the enemies of civilization, because the victories stretching through the centuries from the days of Miltiades and Themistocles to those of Charles Martel in the eighth century and those of John Sobieski in the seventeenth century. During the thousand years that included the careers of the Frankish soldier and the Polish king, the Christians of Asia and Africa proved unable to wage successful war with the Moslem conquerors; and in consequence Christianity practically vanished from the two continents; and today nobody can find in them any "social values" whatever, in the sense in which we use the words, so far as the sphere of Mohammedan influence. There are such "social values" today in Europe, America, and Australia only because during those thousand years the Christians of Europe possessed the warlike power to do what the Christians of Asia and Africa had failed to do - that is, to beat back the Moslem invader."
Posted by: Hugh at December 19, 2007 10:25 AM

Posted by: R_not at December 20, 2007 10:35 AM

I predict by the year 2100 at the latest Christmas will not be celebrated anywhere in the world-in fact, most people won't even have much of clue of what it was. Some people today don't even know who was born on Christmas. It might be abolished and demolished by either the Islamaniacs after capturing the world or by the PC bunch-either way it WILL be gone. I'm glad I won't be around to see that day at least.

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at December 20, 2007 10:43 AM

I wonder: who is the official censor of hundreds of languages and communities that celebrate Christmas and the birth of an enduring religion?

I wouldn't presume to tell others they're wrong about buddha, or confucius, of the various hindu gods, or the greek or roman gods, or the viking gods, or even the cults of allah and l
ron hubbard/tom cruise.

Each of the above are allowed their observances. Why not christians at the important festivals of their beliefs?

Posted by: mareeS at December 20, 2007 11:00 AM

Wait now, did I read "Candles of Hanukkah" is in the program also?

Was that changed? and to what? “Candles of Festive”

Don't tell me we have to call the Hanukkah Menorah a

“Holiday Candle Stick”.

Yep..this is getting nuts.

Am I living in a Jerry Seinfeld episode?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Strike_(Seinfeld_episode)

Posted by: Joe Schmoe USA at December 20, 2007 11:10 AM

Many years ago (1979 or there abouts) our daughter was watching "Sesame Street." They were singing "Deck the Halls" when they came to "Don we now our gay apparel" they sang "Don we now our bright apparel."

Nothing new here.

Here is a decision that must be made whether you like it or not. To keep Islam out of our public schools, we must keep all religion out of our public schools. Many school systems have already renamed the two holidays: Christmas is now winter break; easter has become spring break.

Multiculturalism has nothing to do with that reality. It must be done to avoid Creeping Islamism.

Posted by: Pelayo at December 20, 2007 11:47 AM

"When the heck are we going to say that we are offended by islam, atheists, etc and their wanting us to be eliminated?!!"

Hey, R-not I assume it was just a minor error that you stuck atheists in with Islamists. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Those of you who complain about removing references to Judaism and Christianity from schools, when schools are forced to have an Al-Adha Eid Day, you will have lost you right to complain about that vulgar Islamic holiday.

Animal sacrifices in the gym?

Posted by: Pelayo at December 20, 2007 12:00 PM

The argument is that unless all belief-systems caled "religions" are given equal treatment, then it is impermissible for people who, until now, had no difficulty calling themselves Christians, and whose countries were founded by people who considered themselves to be Christians, countires whose with legal and political institutions that developed, over time, in Western Christendom. The only change has been that in recent decades, it has been intelligently and widely recognized that the Old Testament has been an important cultural and political source for that same Christianity, and that it would be more accurate to use the term "Judeo-Christian civilization."

It is a fact that in what some call the "holiday season" there are two holidays: Christmas and Hanukkah. Neither Christian or Jewish texts mandate that Christians, or Jews, be in a state of permanent war (if not open warfare) with non-Christians, or non-Jews. Islamic texts, however, do insist that the "struggle" or Jihad to remove every obstacle to the spread of Islam -- from a laic French state, to the American Constitution's guarantees of individual rights -- must continue until Islam not only spreads everywheree, but dominates everywhere, and Muslims rule, everywhere.

That is not something the innocent teachers of this school recognize. They do not realize that the Muslims -- for obviously this is about Muslims, and not Hindus and not Buddhists and not Jains and not Sikhs -- wish, as part of the removal of those obstacles to Islam, to steadily deny any public, and then private space, to Christianity, to Judaism, to anything that is not-Islam. The teachers who innocently thought they were merely making Muslim students feel more at home are doing something that will be regarded by Muslims, openly or silently, as a triumph -- a political triumph, and one to be followed by other such triumphs. It is not about "being made to feel welcome." It is about the transformation, sometimes aided by innocent Infidels themselves, of Infidel societies.

This is a much more serious incident than merrely doing away with the Three Kings (I was one of them once, bearing myrrh, or possibly gold, or possibly frankincense -- slowly making my second-grade dignified way, right up onto the stage, during that memorable school-wide Assembly. Every Christmas, I now solemnly re-enact, for anyone who will watch, my performance as one of the Three Magi) or a menorah. It's part of a campaign. If the Infidels choose to further a Muslim campaign out of a misplaced sympathyy, or a misunderstanding that if they really must be so keenly insistent on everyone-gets-to-participate-or-no-one-can, then they will simply have to invent some Muslim holiday that calendrically corresponds to the overlap of Christmas and Hanukkah (which, by the way, has been raised to a level of significance it does not possess in Judaism, precisely because of its celebratory proximity to Christmas).

After all, Eid is a most movable feast. And furthermore, decapitating a lamb on the school stage might be a little messy, and some of the first-graders might be unduly affected. The non-Muslim first-graders, that is -- the ones unused to such things.

Posted by: Hugh at December 20, 2007 12:26 PM

Mmmmmm.....lamb.

Posted by: MP at December 20, 2007 1:00 PM

The preemptive alteration of Christmas carols hints at a fear of offending a group of people who have no resistance to adopting violence as an alternative to written complaints.

Islam has this wonderful concept called "no innovation." All innovation is forbidden, I have read on line Islamic opinion (fatwa) that tells the faithful that all of the days that Westerners celebrate are forbidden to Muslims. Mohammed did not celebrate Mother's Day, Valentine's Day or any other of these Days whether they were invented by greeting card vendors or not. One opinion stated that celebrating one's birthday was also un-Islamic. Moving an Islamic festival will result in an outbreak of gunfire, or worse. Moving an Islamic Day or creating a new one not an option.

I'll try to make the next sentence as generic and non-offensive as I can: Just because no one has ever challenged a particular practice does not make that practice legitimate.

Posted by: Pelayo at December 20, 2007 1:10 PM

Pelayo,No mistake in including atheists with muslims. They have been trying to get Christian references out of everything too.

But here is the deal - islam is being inserted in too many places that are trying to take Christians out of. eg: islam is part of a history book in Lodi, California and probably elsewhere - not only their prophet but the 5 tenets of the 'religion' - but they sort of forget the violence that 'prophet' and his followers did. And the required reading of the koran in some colleges. Or when some give speeches how the behavior of the muslims, along with the left wing loonies, all behave poorly and either don't let them speak or take up a lot of the seats and then walk out - basically their inability to converse and have dialog with anyone who disagrees with them.

Reread my previous post and when good people do nothing - we will end out like the Asians and Africans, per T. Roosevelt.

Posted by: R_not at December 20, 2007 1:17 PM

R_not said

>No mistake in including atheists with muslims

You are making a terrible mistake lumping atheists in with muslims.

Let's face it, Christians and Jews need all the friends they can get in the war with islam and atheists have proved time and time again that they are ruthless in attacking islam.

This is an important point - atheists see islam as dangerous , not just islamism. In many respects they are way ahead of many Christians who want to have inter-faith dialogue and appeasement approaches.

For example, whenever Christopher Hitchens appears on US TV, he is devastating when he takes on the imams. Zero tolerance - No prisoners.

I've just listened to an interview with Richard Dawkins on the BBC and he admitted he sang carols and was a cultural christian.
On his website forums you will find most of the atheists celebrate Christmas in a family gathering, gift giving, charitable way.

OK, atheists don't go for the idea of a supernatural God at Christmas, but you wouldn't expect that.

Things have changed, the atheists now recognise islam as the most dangerous religion the world has ever seen.

We need to stop making snide remarks about them and welcome them in a united front against islam.

muslims

Posted by: zoltix at December 20, 2007 2:13 PM

Hmm. Church bells can't be rung under dhimmi laws. That would tend to put a damper on "Silver Bells" for Christmas or any other holiday. Not to mention the fact that music and musical instruments are haram in the first place.

Posted by: MarisolJW at December 20, 2007 2:17 PM

"No mistake in including atheists with muslims. They have been trying to get Christian references out of everything too."
-- from a posting above

Really?

I'm a life-long atheist. Learned it at my mother's knee, when I looked up at her, and she refused to tell me if either she or my father believed in God, and I had to figure it all out for myself. And I've never "been trying to get ""Christian refrences out of everything." It's all I can do to get people to understand that the study, and appreciation, of Western art and music and literature cannot take place without a knowledge of both the Old and the New Testament. How else to understand Christian allusions in Shakespeare or Dickens, or Christian iconography without which Western art until the nineteenth century could not be deciphered, could not be understood, save purely from the painterly (malerisch) point of view of color, form, line.

Last evening I enjoyed music -- I'll discretely call it BWV 248 -- which would have made little sense to me had I not been supplied with the English text of the German original, and had I not already, in my brain, known something about a certain child, "aus der Stadt Nazareth, in dis judische Land zur Stadt David, die da heisset Bethlehem; darum, dasss er von dem Hause un Geschlechte David war" and so on. And I did so as a firm, unrelenting atheist.

Not everyone takes as stolid and unimaginative a view of "religion" as Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins do. Some atheists are perfectly relaxed and bemused and easygoing about the whole matter of others' beliefs, and can take pleasure in the artifacts created by those who used the imagery, relied on the texts, and in most cases shared the beliefs, of Christianity or, a bit more accurately inclusive, of both Old and New Testaments. Certainly at this point in our collectively grim history, and needing every non-Muslim to join with every other non-Muslim, this would not be a good time for atheists to go fight City Hall, nor for those who are non-atheits and non-Muslims, to fight with those same (relaxed, bemused, non-fanatical) atheists who can sit still in a Concertgebouw or Conservatory, for that Oratorio I mentioned above -- and applaud, and mean it, at the end.

Posted by: Hugh at December 20, 2007 2:24 PM

I once knew a devout and ignorant Christian who called me a sinner for singing "Deck the Halls with Boston Charlie, Walla Wall Wash and Kalamazoo." I'm not sure if it was my singing ability or the Walt Kelly lyrics.

I do not associate every Christian with the guy who damned me to Hell and did not understand Albert Alligator; so, please do not confuse the individual atheist or agnostic or even a deist with the organized atheist movement that gained momentum from the famous (infamous?)school prayer law suit filed by the late M. M. O'hare.

Posted by: Pelayo at December 20, 2007 2:47 PM

"M. M. O'Hare"

Rumored to have run off with Jimmy Hoffa.

Posted by: Hugh at December 20, 2007 2:49 PM

They have found O'Hare's body, but Hoffa sleeps with the fishes, or the trash in a big land fill some where. There's no one better a disposing of a body than a professional.

Posted by: Pelayo at December 20, 2007 2:57 PM

I went to the website of this school, to post my condemnation. Alas the website was conveniently down due to construction.

Posted by: Armoured Passionfruit at December 20, 2007 3:34 PM

Despte the fact that I am an atheist, I was raised in a home with Christian values, went to Sunday school, and was once the Angel Gabriel in a nativity play. I attended church as an adolescent, and was married in a church. My children were raised with the same Christian values.

Whether or not the biblical account of Christmas is true, it is still a beautiful and inspiring story. Whether or not Jesus was the Son of God, he was by all accounts a brave, kind, gentle and loving teacher whose greatest lesson was the Golden Rule. So simple, so profound.

It burns my butt that our traditions, our Christmas carols, our nativity scenes and all the other elements that make Christmas so special are being stripped away. I am just as outraged by this as any devout, church-going Christian must be. So please don't lump atheists in with muslims. They won't change anything for us - why are we changing for them?

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at December 20, 2007 3:47 PM

I fully endorse that statement made by ImNoDhimmi.

Posted by: Pelayo at December 20, 2007 3:58 PM

This is why I make it a point to say Merry Christmas when I'm out shopping for Christmas presents during Christmas time.

Posted by: Stinkyinfidel at December 20, 2007 4:17 PM

They [teachers] wanted to have a song that emphasized the holiday spirit, so they just changed the Silver Bells song to reflect a more generic flavour."

Yes, multiculturalists are very generic and lacking in any particular passion. Just one of the factors that make them so boring.

Plus, the song still is prejudiced against those who prefer their bells golden. What about them? Are they second-class citizens?

Posted by: venividivici at December 20, 2007 4:53 PM

Let It Snow

Oh, the weather outside is frightful,
But the fire is so delightful,
And since we've no place to go,
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.

It doesn't show signs of stopping,
And I brought some corn for popping;
The lights are turned way down low,
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.

When we finally say good night,
How I'll hate going out in the storm;
But if you really hold me tight,
All the way home I'll be warm.

The fire is slowly dying,
And, my dear, we're still good-bye-ing,
But as long as you love me so.
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.

***
Not a "Christmas" word in the whole song. So ... why did they wreck 'Silver Bells' again???

Posted by: Lori B. at December 20, 2007 4:54 PM

Hello?! Muslims will be offended by MUSIC, period, whether or not it contains the word "Christmas".

To paraphrase Patrick Henry, "I have not yet begun to appease".

Posted by: special_guest at December 20, 2007 5:09 PM

As a life-long atheist, I agree with Hugh and ImNoDhimmi. If you think that conservative Christian heterosexual males are the only ones offended by and threatened by Islam, you are quite mistaken and short-sighted.

Posted by: special_guest at December 20, 2007 5:14 PM

Hugh-- Nice choice. I'm partial to BWV 603-612 this time of year.

Posted by: MarisolJW at December 20, 2007 5:17 PM

I wouldn't say I'm short sighted but it sure is nice to have some positive reenforcement on these matters special_guest. Especially with all the PC BS going on these days. I think the important thing to remember is we're all in this together.

Posted by: Stinkyinfidel at December 20, 2007 5:19 PM

Stinkyinfidel, I don't mean you personally. But we have a tendency to think that the jihad started on 9/11/2001, or that the main cause of jihad is related to Israel, etc. In fact, if you look at it over the 1400 years since the invention of Islam, the Hindus in India have probably suffered the most Islamic violence. Even within the U.S., women, gays, artists, civil rights activists, etc. should have the strongest reaction against Islam (of course they often don't yet, for various reasons).

Posted by: special_guest at December 20, 2007 7:15 PM

Ugh, that was John Paul Jones who said "I have not yet begun to appease". Patrick Henry was the one who said "Give me liberty, or if that concept offends you, I'll quietly exist in submissive dhimmitude, paying the jizya in the hope that it will win hearts and minds".

[That's not what they really said. They thought differently back then, and were willing to stand up and fight for their beliefs.]

Posted by: special_guest at December 20, 2007 7:29 PM

Wait now, did I read "Candles of Hanukkah" is in the program also?

Was that changed? and to what? “Candles of Festive”

No, it was not changed. The article clearly states that "Silver Bells" was the *only* song that was altered. That means that "Candles of Hanukkah," "Candles of Christmas," "Pere Noel," and "It's Christmas" were left alone.

So it doesn't look as if the school was trying to excise all mention of Jewish or Christian holidays, but rather was trying to include a single song that didn't refer to either. That was a pretty lame thing to do, but, pace Hugh, this is *not* "obviously about Muslims." It would do nothing to mollify "those pesky segments of the general population who might fly into a murderous rage at the drop of a hat, or a teddy bear, or a cartoon, or a Christmas carol," and there is nothing in the article to suggest that that was the school's intent. It looks much more likely that it was intended to mollify atheists.

Posted by: Seamus at December 20, 2007 8:19 PM

http://www.globalincidentmap.com/home.php
View terrorism as it happens.

Posted by: ElizaDoolittle at December 20, 2007 9:12 PM

"Those of you who complain about removing references to Judaism and Christianity from schools, when schools are forced to have an Al-Adha Eid Day, you will have lost you right to complain about that vulgar Islamic holiday.

Animal sacrifices in the gym?

Posted by: Pelayo"

Pelayo, I share your concerns about religion in public education, but I think you miss the point that a lot of Christians and Jews are angry about the blatant double standard and favoritism being shown to Islam in public schools today, even ones where there are hardly any Muslim students. And it's also true that a lot of hardcore leftists and/or atheisits who loathe Christianity and Judaism and take every opportunity to smear and belittle both the religions and the people, are either deafeningly silent when it comes to Islam or openly enamoured of it, and a disturbing number of these types are now teaching or otherwise in control of public education. This is true in Canada, the U.S., the U.K., and most likely much of Europe as well.

If schools are going to teach students how to pray to Allah and celebrate Muslim holidays, then they damn well better give equal time to all other religions too. That's not happening, and that's why a lot of these people are steamed. They don't all have the financial option of sending their kids to private religious schools. If there was a blanket "no religion" policy in puvlic schools, and if it was observed and enforced, I think most reasonable religious parents could live with that. But as it is, I think they have a right to be angry.

Posted by: angloirishslav at December 20, 2007 9:25 PM

O'Hair. Madalyn Murray O'Hair.

Posted by: special_guest at December 21, 2007 1:24 AM

O'Hair, O'Hare I guess I've been to Chicago too many times.

Lori B. - first verse

Silver bells, silver bells
It's Christmas time in the city
Ringeling, hear them ring
Soon it will be christmas day.

Seamus - I think your crystal ball needs calibrating, did it tell you that they were afraid of an atheist lawsuit, or a Muslim death threat.

Posted by: Pelayo at December 21, 2007 1:41 AM

Angloirishslav, I would like to hear from an atheist who along with leftists are enamored of Islam. I'm guessing by your spelling of "enmoured" that you are British or Canadian. Athiests down here have little experience with Islam. In the US, atheists first complained about Christianity because it was the prominate religion displayed and practiced in US public schools. The 1960 Supreme Court decision that stopped prayer in schools eliminated all prayer, not just Christian prayers or daily Bible readings. When public school systems start to emphasize Islam, atheists will be there along with other non-Muslims - that is, as long as Muslims let everyone keep their heads.

Organized athiests have always tried to keep all religious references from US public schools; they have yet to encounter Islam.

When Muslims start agitating for an Eid Al-Adha Day obserance in a US school, what is the recourse when a school also has a Nativity pageant? Are you ready for a Hindu Diwali
pageant also?

Posted by: Pelayo at December 21, 2007 2:13 AM

Festivus! Not festive.

Posted by: perpster at December 21, 2007 3:05 AM

So Pelayo you can't tell the Muslim or Hindu agitators off with the line - its a Christian nation get used to it or fvck off. No you have to eviscerate the traditions of a basically Christian country since otherwise your legalistic scruples won't allow you to man the ramparts. I don't think the bible-thumpers can afford such a high-minded soldier as yourself.

Posted by: ivan at December 21, 2007 3:35 AM

The strangest part of this story is that nobody in Ottawa seems to be offended by what happens. Is Canada already lost?

Posted by: Osmund Bindalen at December 21, 2007 5:52 AM

Ivan, what part of the First Amendment to the US Constitution do you not understand?

We are either a nation of laws or a nation of street gangs. If you want to establish Christianity, you can f*ck off.

Posted by: Pelayo at December 21, 2007 9:05 AM

Actually, the Ottawa Citizen newspaper had this update today:

Protest silences Silver Bells
Elmdale pulls carol from concert; police investigate threat
Tony Lofaro, Ottawa Citizen
Published: Friday, December 21, 2007

In the end, Silver Bells gave way to Frosty the Snowman as Elmdale Public School yesterday dropped the carol from its Christmas concert lineup following a national controversy when teachers attempted to omit the word "Christmas" from the song.

The rest of the article is here:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=5e75dcb8-8f3c-4a8f-b277-660aa1ed2ad3&k=67716

Comments from the public can be found here:
http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=bfd6c057-3cd7-492a-8504-b01e4517ff50

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at December 21, 2007 9:16 AM

Seamus - I think your crystal ball needs calibrating, did it tell you that they were afraid of an atheist lawsuit, or a Muslim death threat.

It didn't say either. Nor did the article. If you read it, though, you'll note that songs about Christmas and Hanukkah were left in the program and that a single song ("Silver Bells") was scrubbed of any reference to a religious holiday. You will also note that there was nothing in the article about *any* songs celebrating a Mohammedan holiday, or Mohammedanism at all. So who is is more likely that the school was catering to, Mohammedans or those of no religion?

They weren't necessarily worried about either lawsuits or death threats; but if they had been worried about death threats, singing about Christian and Jewish holidays and remaining silent about Mohammedan ones was a very strange way to avoid them.

Posted by: Seamus at December 21, 2007 10:24 AM

This is another example of political correctness going out of control.

Posted by: Christian at December 21, 2007 10:37 AM

I see no problem with getting rid of the pagan Christmas and replacing it with 'Festivus' or whatever. What does that have to do with fighting nuttbar Jihadists anyway ? That fight is not just a Christian fight it is also a fight for atheists who would be no. 1 on Mahomet's hit list.

Posted by: lefty at December 21, 2007 10:56 AM

BTW, I notice, from the article in the Ottawa Citizen that ImNoDhimmi linked to, that the only bomb threat reported seems to have been made *after* the deletion of the reference to Christmas. Sounds like the action of a disgruntled Christian.

Posted by: Seamus at December 21, 2007 11:13 AM

"So who is is more likely that the school was catering to, Mohammedans or those of no religion?"
by Seamus

Exactly, no one knows, and you don't either.

This comment from 8:19 yesterday: "It looks much more likely that it was intended to mollify atheists." is the reason I thought your crystal ball was in need of repair.

Actually the news article now leads me to believe that the teachers did this on their own, just a flaky idea out of the blue.

Posted by: Pelayo at December 21, 2007 1:16 PM

But we do know- they played It's Christmas,Pere Noel and Candles of Hanukkah, Candles of Christmas, and changed the words to Silver Bells so as to include one secular song. Then- "An elementary school in Ottawa was flooded with hateful and threatening e-mails and phone calls after media reports that it had removed the word "Christmas" from a song to be performed at its Christmas concert." Do Christians practice dhimmitude? Of course they do. Do Robert and Hugh welcome atheists on this website, I'd like to know because I won't be a dhimmi for any religion.

Posted by: lefty at December 21, 2007 5:41 PM

Lefty, Hugh is an atheist. He learned it as his mother's knee. Etc.

Posted by: special_guest at December 21, 2007 5:48 PM

Only a little emberassed... still can we stick to fighting Jihad and leave the Canadians,teachers and elementary students out of it?

Posted by: lefty at December 21, 2007 5:57 PM

"Especially those pesky segments of the general population who might fly into a murderous rage at the drop of a hat, or a teddy bear, or a cartoon, or a Christmas carol" - um...bomb threats... from which pesky segments?

Posted by: lefty at December 21, 2007 6:09 PM

lefty said

can we stick to fighting Jihad and leave the Canadians,teachers and elementary students out of it?

Errrr, you're in the DhimmiWatch section. Whereas JihadWatch features articles about acts of violent jihad against non-Muslims, the DhimmiWatch section features articles about non-Muslims acting in accordance with Islamic law, or according to the demands of Muslims.

These teachers (or whomever made the decision) removed the word "Christmas" from the song to appease Muslim complaints.

BTW, you don't think that violence is the only method jihadists use to achieve their goals, do you? The DW section is just as important as the JW section, IMHO.

Posted by: special_guest at December 21, 2007 7:44 PM

Canada is nowhere near a Muslim country its just a lot of hooey. Is the Christian religion so insecure that they resort to intimidation, fear tactics, and threats of death while pretending to be victims of EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WHOLE WORLD? Cry me a river. Now sing along with me...Silver Bellllllss....

Posted by: lefty at December 21, 2007 8:01 PM

There are so many so-called "Christmas" songs kids love to sing that make no actual mention of Christmas; if the teachers had had the intelligence and foresight to choose one of them - say, "Jingle Bells," "Winter Wonderland", "Deck the Halls", or "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" - there would have been none of this silliness. There's absolutely no need to take a well-known and beloved song and doctor it to make it more palatable to the masses.

As for "Lefty"'s comment that he/she would have no problem with "getting rid of the pagan Christmas", plenty of non-religious people in Canada would have a big, big problem with that, Lefty, because Christmas is PART OF OUR CULTURE, as a nation, like it or not, that was FOUNDED AND ESTABLISHED BY EUROPEAN CHRISTIANS, and when a small group of high-minded cultural elites decide to "get rid" of something that the vast majority of the population love, enjoy, and value, regardless of their religion or lack thereof, then you have fascism. Besides, try telling a cathedral packed full of people at Christmas Eve midnight mass, singing "Silent Night" as the Baby Jesus is carried toward the nativity scene, that Christmas is merely a "pagan" holiday. Most of them, I think, will peacefully beg to differ.

Posted by: angloirishslav at December 21, 2007 11:28 PM

There are so many so-called "Christmas" songs kids love to sing that make no actual mention of Christmas; if the teachers had had the intelligence and foresight to choose one of them - say, "Jingle Bells," "Winter Wonderland", "Deck the Halls", or "Santa Claus is Coming to Town" - there would have been none of this silliness. There's absolutely no need to take a well-known and beloved song and doctor it to make it more palatable to the masses.

As for "Lefty"'s comment that he/she would have no problem with "getting rid of the pagan Christmas", plenty of non-religious people in Canada would have a big, big problem with that, Lefty, because Christmas is PART OF OUR CULTURE, as a nation, like it or not, that was FOUNDED AND ESTABLISHED BY EUROPEAN CHRISTIANS, and when a small group of high-minded cultural elites decide to "get rid" of something that the vast majority of the population love, enjoy, and value, regardless of their religion or lack thereof, then you have fascism. Besides, try telling a cathedral packed full of people at Christmas Eve midnight mass, singing "Silent Night" as the Baby Jesus is carried toward the nativity scene, that Christmas is merely a "pagan" holiday. Most of them, I think, will peacefully beg to differ.

Posted by: angloirishslav at December 21, 2007 11:29 PM

I fail to see the muslim hand in this story. What you seem to be saying is that as a peacable Christian threatening to bomb white women and children for changing one word in a pop song written by two Jews is acceptable because they are not Christians like yourself.

Posted by: lefty at December 22, 2007 11:03 AM

"Is the Christian religion so insecure that they resort to intimidation, fear tactics, and threats of death while pretending to be victims of EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WHOLE WORLD?"

That line should read:

Is the Muslim religion so insecure that they resort to intimidation, fear tactics, and threats of death while pretending to be victims of EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WHOLE WORLD?

And the answer would be yes.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 23, 2007 3:07 PM

Errrr, you're in the DhimmiWatch section. Whereas JihadWatch features articles about acts of violent jihad against non-Muslims, the DhimmiWatch section features articles about non-Muslims acting in accordance with Islamic law, or according to the demands of Muslims.

These teachers (or whomever made the decision) removed the word "Christmas" from the song to appease Muslim complaints.

There is absolutely no evidence that the song was altered to appease Muslim complaints. Moreover, it isn't even plausible that that was the teachers' motivation; if it had been, you'd expect them to have bowdlerized or eliminated *all* the songs referring to Christmas or Hanukkah, or added at least one song celebrating Islam. Or maybe your theory is that they were dhimmis who were too stupid even to act consistently according to dhimmi principles?

Posted by: Seamus at December 24, 2007 10:11 AM

Actually the news article now leads me to believe that the teachers did this on their own, just a flaky idea out of the blue.

So it sounds like this story doesn't belong in DhimmiWatch at all.

Posted by: Seamus at December 24, 2007 10:16 AM

I don't like multiculturalism but in Canada it is the norm by law. Moderate Christians should speak up against the extremist viewpoints. I'm sure Robert just made a bad assumption here. The service sector of society reasonably says Happy Holidays which is a sensible response in a free society. Now back to my Christmas tree with the angel on top. Christmas does not belong just to Christians it also belongs to those citizens born free in a free country under rule of democratic law.

Posted by: lefty at December 24, 2007 11:54 AM

Well as a Canadian things are getting loopy here to say the least, but having said that I have noticed a real claw back of sorts this year.

Last year I went to my kids elementary school for their annual Christmas concert. I believe I burst a blood vessel in my neck when they proceeded to do a "Survivor Santa" skit which had absolutely nothing to do with Christmas. I was pissed off to say the least as I see the erosion and rejection of my culture at a scary pace. I voiced my opinion to my son's teacher and he agreed with me.

Now last week I arrived at the same school for the same concert and was ecstatic to see a real Christmas celebration with actual Christmas songs, and lots of references to Jesus. I honestly have no idea what has prompted this, but it was noticeable and I'm thankful for it.

I'll be honest here, if we want to change Christmas to be something else, then I don't want it celebrated at all. I'll do it myself with my family, we'll go to church and give thanks, but I'm tired of everyone who spends so much effort to tear down these institutions. I notice at work where I have these fights happen almost daily, it seems no one who outwardly hates Christianity has any problem observing stat holidays and taking the free day from work.

I know I'm ranting a bit here, but how many people puking their guts out every March 17th realize St. Patrick's day is the celebration of bringing Christianity to Ireland? Strange how these events get so twisted, especially rabitt day, oops, I mean Easter.

Hypocrisy is in abundance these days to say the least.

Posted by: The fanatic at December 26, 2007 3:41 AM