Where is Naseem?Is she hiding in a cave where the pure muslims i.e jihadists will not be able to locate her.

Posted by: anti islamocommunist at December 26, 2007 8:53 AM

.....Oh Naseem!

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at December 26, 2007 10:14 AM

.....Oh Naseem!

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at December 26, 2007 10:14 AM

They should call themselves "Milsums", since they are apparently the reverse of the most backward sect on the planet.

Posted by: profitsbeard at December 26, 2007 10:52 AM

" . . . attempts at reform would leave them vulnerable to charges of bid'a, or innovation, something for which they now persecute the Ahmadis."

It seems to me that "innovation" and "abrogation" are much the same thing. If Allah could, through revelation to Mohammad, cancel an earlier revelation, and have that called abrogation, how is this any different from cancelling a revelation to Mohammad by a later revelation to another prophet? Wouldn't this be just another abrogation? And why couldn't a later revelation start with abrogating the line that Mohammad was the last of the prophets?
But that would make sense, and Islam is basically non-sense, or anti-sense.

Posted by: ebonystone at December 26, 2007 10:55 AM

The case of the Ahmadiyya is frustrating. I can't and won't acquiesce to a blanket defamation of Islam, especially not when these people (and the similar Ismailis) stand to be subject to further humiliation and degradation. Their case is one of the most fascinating in religious history: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad appeared in 1889 and called himself the awaited Messiah, a reformer of Islam in the same vein as Jesus was taken to be a reformer of Mosaic law, and some of the first things he took care to do was firmly abolish, as God's promised reinterpreter, the doctrine of holy war to expand Islamic dominion over the Earth. He did still preach that Christianity was a flawed revelation and that God had chosen Islam as the religion best suited for all humanity, but he declared that the principle of naskh, by which jihadists are able to cancel out peaceful suras of the Qur'an and proclaim the authenticity of only the malevolent ones, is erroneous and should be scrapped completely. As a result, Ahmadis take interfaith understanding and goodwill toward all very seriously-- Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did argue for Islam with Christian debaters, but you will never, ever find an Ahmadi engaging in terrorist activity, or mistreating a non-Muslim. There's a reputable Ahmadi humanitarian organization called Humanity First, and Ghulam Ahmad's motto was "Love For All, Hatred For None", as he proclaimed that almost all the religions of the world, including the Eastern faiths, were all divinely inspired and sanctioned and although Islam was best, none was a path to the Hellfire. Of course, he did also make a bevy of hare-brained numerological and eschatological prophecies, but the Ahmadi leaders I've encountered are wise and kind folk, and if all Muslims were Ahmadi, or at least accepted in principle the Ahmadi spirit of human lovingkindness, there might be no Islamic terrorism and supremacism problem at all.

Unfortunately, Ahmadis tend to get that uruba, that sense of fellow-feeling and collective responsibility to promote Islam so common in islamochristians as well, and so one will find Ahmadis (like Naseem, I believe?) who needlessly obfuscate and try to present Islam's history as benign and harmless, as though all Muslims take for granted the gentle philosophy of the Ahmadiyya way. You will find early Ahmadi literature that fulminates against Christianity, calling Western Christendom's power and influence a harbinger of the Dajjal or antichrist, but you won't find rank-and-file Ahmadis with rancour or even an absence of goodwill toward non-Muslims.

And with Ismailis-- a once-militaristic branch of the Shia who have turned into peaceful, world-embracing, thoroughly modern esotericists under the guidance of the Aga Khan-- it's the same. THESE Muslims pose no threat at all, except insofar as they might too often hide from view the faults and fissures that make some elements of mainstream Islam so problematic and dangerous.

Thanks for covering stories of Ahmadi mistreatment; the fate of this people is important to me. And further, folks need to know the anti-jihad is not solely a front of white Western resistance, but all-embracing in its efforts to secure human dignity. If Spencer's army of crazed critics dared to actually read with open eyes half of what's written here, one imagines all but the most dyed-in-the-wool would wise up. But no, they call him a hatemonger. Crazy world.

Posted by: Funky Child at December 26, 2007 11:58 AM

I've asked Naseem this question several times in the past, but since she never deigned to reply, I'll throw this out in the open. If in Pakistan, an Ahmadiya tries converting to, say, Christianity, would (s)he be subject to the same apostasy restrictions as a mainstream Sunni/Shia? What if someone, say Naseem's daughter, wants to elope with a Sikh? Would such laws prevent her?

Just curious

Posted by: Infidel Pride at December 26, 2007 12:33 PM

Christmas Greetings:

"The word "Muslim" has been erased, on the orders of a magistrate, from an epitaph engraved on the tomb of Pakistan's most distinguished scientist, Dr Abdus Salam."

I think Dr. Salam was abrogated by A.Q Khan (Doctor of Nukes).

Posted by: 11B40 at December 26, 2007 12:55 PM

Thanks, Funky Child, for such an informative and well-written post. It's sad that such peaceful people as the Ahmadis generally appear to be continue to follow Islam at all.

Posted by: kaffirchick at December 26, 2007 1:51 PM

...Muslims impersonating Muslims......as if anyone really wanted to do that!....either you are a die hard Muslim or you just die...they make it so simple...nothing in between....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at December 26, 2007 2:59 PM

This kind of extreme , rage-fueled violence paints a daunting picture if any of us are sincerely hoping for islamic reform to one day become a reality . It's a necessity for any utopian fantasy world in which muslims and sane people co-exist ( a world which the deluded PC posse and left wing actually believe they presently live in ).
For reform to happen , muslims must first accept the idea of post-prophet ideals and modern interpretations that give a more modern outlook on draconian , dark-age scripture which has no bearing on our times .

Posted by: Rikki at December 26, 2007 3:04 PM

This kind of extreme , rage-fueled violence paints a daunting picture if any of us are sincerely hoping for islamic reform to one day become a reality . It's a necessity for any utopian fantasy world in which muslims and sane people co-exist ( a world which the deluded PC posse and left wing actually believe they presently live in ).
For reform to happen , muslims must first accept the idea of post-prophet ideals and modern interpretations that give a more modern outlook on draconian , dark-age scripture which has no bearing on our times .

Posted by: Rikki at December 26, 2007 3:05 PM

The laws mandate three years' imprisonment for Ahmadis who dare to call themselves Muslims, call their places of worship mosques, recite the Koran or announce the azan, the call to prayer."

...Does Naseem abide by the law? Her Law? the law administered by her chosen people?....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at December 26, 2007 3:41 PM

Assalamau Laikum all,

It is so sad that Ahmadi cannot be classified as muslilms...personally I'd be happy to be a wuslim.

I am sick & tried of these lunds treating us a 2nd class citizens. This is one of the reasons I came to JW....to show you the plight of the Ahmadi.

We need help from you to fulfill the following demands:

1) Ahmadis can be classified as muslim/wuslim.
2) Ahmadi can go to Hajj.
3) Remove that blasphemy crap from the constitution.

You know that the teddy bear teacher got away due to international pressure. Well we too need that pressure to finally put one over them.

You can help by marching down the streets for Ahmadi....convert in mass numbers.... give us the potential to grow from 2m to 100M peoples.

Come on peoples let go together...let's get sharia lite...one law for all wuslims...even the muslims will finally turn to it.

Posted by: Naseem at December 26, 2007 3:56 PM

There is about as much innovation in the Muslim religion today as there is in science, women's rights, democracy, or none!

Posted by: Dumbo at December 26, 2007 4:59 PM

If Naseem is genuine, then (she) is somewhat pathetic, an object of our pity, another victim of religious intolerance in the world.

(Her) transposition of lite (as in ~ beer)/light (as in luminosity) and of muslim/wuslim (an inverted letter?) seem affected and a purposeful play-on-words.

Posted by: John C at December 26, 2007 5:42 PM

JohnC,
I believe Naseem is genuine . When I used to come on this site a couple of years ago I was fearcly cynical of her , perhaps even unjustly and excessively so . As months went by Naseem continued to proove again and again that she is genuinly critical of the most extreme elements islam and and wants a change . If she was using taqiyya she'd have given up and moved on to more gullible targets long ago ....

Naseem I defend you now ,so please don't make me look stupid by proving me wrong about you .

Posted by: Rikki at December 26, 2007 5:59 PM

Ahmadis are True Muslim

Ahmadis are as a good Muslim lot as they should be. Ahmadiyya claim in Islam is like the claim of Christianity as it seen after Judaic era. Jesus* came as reformer of Judaic but they failed to recognise him and put him on the cross to die a humiliating death. Its God’s design that after every unholy mess adversity, He picks up a dedicated lot from among the people to come up to strive in His cause and His blissful streams starts flowing again; turning to rivers and expanding out to the oceans. Today Christianity as we all know has come to present day form; progressing in leaps and bounds. It is recognised and practiced in all the four corners of the earth.

In fact Ahmadis carry the same ‘template of divine will’ in Islam as that of followers of Jesus*, the Christ, had gone through then. Mocking, persecution and subjugation and subjecting them to nihilism by fellow Muslims may not be the new factors of their ordeal that they are experiencing. Hazrat Ghulam Ahmad (as) of Qadian proclaimed himself the promised Messiah, in late 19th century. He proclaimed him self the same Messiah, the Mahdi; the awaited one, in Islam as prophesied by Muhammad (pbuh) and all the earlier prophets of religions prior to Islam.

One may not be convinced to believe in the particular verdict of ‘Darwin theory of Evolution’, of human specie that centuries back we used to be apes and as the time passed by; man gradually got refined and through the process of evaluation it took its present shape as a ‘civilised man’. But it does support the common belief that man has certainly gone through some kind of evolution to reach at the present stage. The display of knowledge in the nature and its observation by the ancient man as well as dictates of environments did play their part to achieve the refinement and attaining his adult hood of ‘man’s consciousness’; starting at a lesser state to a modest and then to present day superior form.

The history of our Modern Religion is just about six thousands years old, when God Almighty revealed the ‘word of enlightenment’ to our common religious father Abraham*; the word revealed was Peace; means Islam. Some other ancient and dieing religious denominations like Buddhism, Hinduism and Zoroaster etc, were also present in the far flung and diminishing civilisations. Abraham* took a start with the very basic primary teachings of enlightenment; followed by Moses* and his Judaic era which occupies a space of about some 1200 years. He imparted the teachings and took the masses to modest higher levels. At this stage the followers required a reformation and Jesus* took up the task of ‘Reformer’; there after Christianity took its start. In order to achieve the complete adulthood of man’s conscious and to take it up to its summit; God Almighty sent Prophet Mohammad* with the glorious book; Quran and completed His religion for the entire mankind through Islam. There can’t be any monopoly of religion exercised by any messenger of God at any stage. Islam is not a new religion. It is, in essence, the same message and guidance which Allah revealed to all prophets before Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

Allah says in the Quran (2:137)"Say; We believe in ALLAH and that which has been revealed to us, and that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and in that which was given to Moses and Jesus and other Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them and to HIM we submit." (3-85). Islam happens to be the path of all those who are obedient to Allah and who establish peace with Him and His creatures.”

As in the case of Judaic they needed reformation and Jesus* was sent. Like wise the Muslim as prophesied by Muhammad (pbuh) had also come to a state that their plight was now demanding a thorough reformation. God Almighty choose Hazrat Ghulam Ahmad (as) of Qadian of India to come and reform the mankind where they have gone wrong and give them the glad tiding of rehabilitation under the ‘Ahmadiyya Banner’ in Islam. Like Jesus*, the promised Messiah was also outright rejected by the orthodox Muslim but by the grace of God: today Ahmadis have turned into a strong following of some 3 millions through out the World.

To learn more about Ahmadiyya and Promised Messiah; please refer to following link; http://www.alislam.org/library/messiah.html

------------------------------
Love for all, Hatred for none

(* Peace be upon them all)

Posted by: A Khokar at December 26, 2007 6:03 PM

Assalamau Laikum Mr/Mrs Khokar,

Are you of the deen?....indeed are you of the Ahmadi?

Do you not feel it is high time Allah T'allah SWT showered his mercy on the Ahmadi?

This centuary is for the muslim, however it has to be handled correctly.

In my view the sunni/shia will rise and the infedel will be pushed to the limit, if the luck is with us, Sharia lite can be introduced for the betterment of all, tenents of Islam, with bits of democracy can be forged with Ahmadi leading the way for global peace.

Posted by: Naseem at December 26, 2007 7:11 PM

“Ahmadis tend to get that uruba, that sense of fellow-feeling and collective responsibility to promote Islam so common in islamochristians as well, and so one will find Ahmadis (like Naseem, I believe?) who needlessly obfuscate and try to present Islam's history as benign and harmless, as though all Muslims take for granted the gentle philosophy of the Ahmadiyya way….but you won't find rank-and-file Ahmadis with rancour or even an absence of goodwill toward non-Muslims.”
– from FunkyChild above

Despite the statement made above, Naseem has *DEMONSTRATED* that she – an Ahmadi – is just as GOLDEN RULE-DEFICIENT as other muslims.

Her Ahmadism is as ethically bankrupt as Mohammedanism itself.

Naseem, I would like to try to present this simply, almost as I would to a child. Ethics is about identifying with other people. Seeing through their eyes, seeing yourself as them, and the result is wanting them to get what they want and for them to feel joy, happiness and contentment. And sharing in their joy, which magnifies ones own, as joyousness is "contagious." The golden rule is expressed as “do to others as you would have them do unto you.” And it makes all parties happier, both yourself and the others. It puts a smile on everyone’s face.

We do not wish any suffering upon Muslims (nor any other group of people), but are simply aghast at Muslims' ill intention towards "kafirs" (i.e. towards human beings generally).

I formerly presumed, *BEFORE* I ENCOUNTERED *YOU* HERE, NASEEM, that Ahmadis surely grasped the value, the aesthetic, the natural logic and beauty of an ETHICAL OUTLOOK. And so I presumed them to be civilized and decent, in contrast to devoted muslims.

How suprised I was to learn from *YOU* that nothing is further from the truth, that Ahmadis do share the Islamic bigotry, triumphalism, supremacism with their oppressors, the mainstream muslims.

Wouldn't your poor little self feel better wanting for *others* to live in peaceful happiness, free to be what they want to be, just as you want? I honestly want you to be free of the weight that distorts you to the point of wishing such ill to good people. It's so rewarding when you wish others to be happy and free, and it "comes back to you." It fills the heart with peace and joy. That’s a promise. I am not Christian, but I was moved by people's Christmas wishes for you Naseem yesterday on another thread. I join them in wishing you to find God in a form that amplifies all the natural warmth you squelch out of your heart when you harbor that Islamic triumphalism and hatred towards others. I sense the soulsickness behind your triumphalism against all these lovely people. May that darkness lift from your heart, may you be as joyous as Scrooge at the end of his story.

I wish you a warm, joyous, and peaceful New Year.

Posted by: WestwardHo at December 26, 2007 10:04 PM

If Ahmadis are indeed truly tolerant of all religions and people, Naseem must explain why she wants the entire world to be islamic. Is this a selfish desire just to protect her own religious beliefs? Does she think that by convincing people to convert to Ahmadi "islam", the "good" Ahmadis will eventually snuff out the bad Sunnis and Shi'ites?

The Qur'an will never be accepted by Christians as God's final revelation for reasons that should be obvious to the most obtuse muslim. Islam contradicts everything in the Bible and to believe in islam would be to believe in a capricious, uncertain God. The Qur'an is antithetical to the Bible, not a new and improved version of it! The fact that islam emerged long after Judaism and Christianity makes it all the more dubious, not more credible as muslims believe. Centuries of history were convoluted and distorted by the inventors of islam and the fact that muslims are deluded enough to view their creed as "progressive" does not make it so. Islam is regressive, not progressive. Muslims prove that to the world every day and the pathetic circumstances in islamic nations are evidence enough of what islam generates--- primitive desolation.

Posted by: Susanp at December 26, 2007 10:26 PM

Ahmadis are True Muslim

Posted by: A Khokar at December 26, 2007 6:03 PM

Tell that to your "muslim brothers".

Posted by: Alert at December 27, 2007 2:27 AM

We need help from you to.....

Posted by: Naseem at December 26, 2007 3:56 PM

Ofcourse Ahmadis are not true muslims! Ahmadis are Hindus who converted to Islam, by the sword. Only a matter of time before the sword of Islam falls on these 'fake muslims'. Serves Ahmadis cowards right for renouncing Hinduism for the murderous cult, in the first place.
As for 'We need help from you', leave Islam publicly. Then, we'll talk about it.

Posted by: Alert at December 27, 2007 2:53 AM

We need help from you to.....

Posted by: Naseem at December 26, 2007 3:56 PM

Ofcourse Ahmadis are not true muslims! Ahmadis are Hindus who converted to Islam, by the sword. Only a matter of time before the sword of Islam falls on these 'fake muslims'. Serves Ahmadis cowards right for renouncing Hinduism for the murderous cult, in the first place.
As for 'We need help from you', leave Islam publicly. Then, we'll talk.......

Posted by: Alert at December 27, 2007 2:53 AM

Sorry about the duplication. Please delete the first of the two (yes, the two are different, however slightly).

Posted by: Alert at December 27, 2007 2:55 AM

Asalaamo Alaikum,

Yes Naseem;

By Allah’s grace I am Ahmadi and am very happy to note that you are a regular contributor here on this forum. You have attained a respectable place among other contributors. May Allah be with you and give you an ample strength and courage to face the present day challenges set against Islam by the evil forces and are constantly sprawling the webs of deceit and fallacy to undermine the God’s plan; but who have ever been successful in dismantling God’s Plans?.

I must say that not only the present century but all the centuries are centuries of Islam. This world is passing through the evolution phases and is marching toward achieving an adulthood of its conscious of its people. God only wants the humble and righteous people; and who so ever strive toward him to receive His grace; God bestowed them with blessings and grant them the exalted stations; like Ahmadis.

May Allah’s blessings be with you! Sorry to respond you late; as it’s a festive (Eid Ud Zoha) and holiday season and every thing is packed into it. It is end of year; holidays and keeps you busy in family and friends affaires.
Many thanks. May Allah bless you.

A Khokar UK

Posted by: A Khokar at December 30, 2007 12:55 PM