Gosh, couldn't they just kill the rapee in the accepted form of punishment known as "Honor Killing?" This way they would eliminate the child, the unfortunate girl and the family shame, all in one fell swoop.

To paraphrase a line from Lonesome Dove, "Life sure is cheap up on the Nile."

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 30, 2007 7:48 PM

There is no compulsion in religion...................There is no compulsion in religion...................There is no compulsion in religion...................

Where are those ruby slippers when you need 'em? I need to get back to Kansas.............

Posted by: tanstaafl at December 30, 2007 8:00 PM

According to the independent Egyptian Centre for Women's Rights (ECWR), two women are raped every hour in this country of 76 million.

For G*d's sake, why don't those two women leave the country?

Many factors contribute to the increase in sexual harassment including rising unemployment, the huge cost of marriage and the fact that sex outside marriage is forbidden, experts say.

Those "experts" sure are full of lame excuses. In the times that I have found myself temporarily unemployed, I never once thought that the solution was to go out and rape women. Have we seen any correlation between the unemployment rate and the incidence of rape in the U.S.? What a crock. The real reason is their religiously sanctioned belief that women only exist for the pleasure of "their man", and that they are at best second class citizens.

Posted by: special_guest at December 30, 2007 9:04 PM

The highest interpretive body in Sunni Islam comes out for COMPULSORY abortion! This all-encompassing system-of-everything REPELS me with its ethical relativism relevant to NOTHING, violating in a fell swoop both my Right to Life convictions and my (to some, seemingly paradoxical) belief in free will and the generally free excercise of it, of choice.

Posted by: John C at December 30, 2007 9:10 PM

Mr. D'Souza

we have a problem...

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at December 30, 2007 9:47 PM

Greetings:

A while back, I read an article on the Middle East Quarterly web site about the tribal culture of that area. It described the nature of a tribal herding culture such as that of the Arabian Peninsula and how that culture viewed its womenfolk and its flocks.

I understand that the primary focus of this web site it the Islamic basis of the current clash of our civilizations but, when I think about how the Middle East has held onto the tribal aspects of its culture while the rest of the world has moved on, I can't help but conclude that there is an insidious synergy between the culture and the religion.

My explicit point is that, while this decision is coming from a religious source, it may very well be the tribal culture driving it. If I am understanding what is going on in Iraq, say, it may be very important to understand when and how the underlying sands are shifting from Islam to the tribe and how much.

Posted by: 11B40 at December 30, 2007 10:57 PM

How does their silly little ditty go?

"There is no god for us Muslims but Satan, and Muhammad was his hatchling."

A lifelong agnostic, I have nevertheless been convinced by them that Satan is absolutely real, and his name is Allah.

Posted by: jsla at December 30, 2007 11:37 PM

RoP®
What a lie. Death follows wherever it goes.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at December 31, 2007 12:05 AM

11B40; How does that help explain the same murderous mindset of the non ME Muslim societies? Indonesia, Chechnya, Sudan, etc...?
The only common denominator is the religion.

Posted by: DaninVan at December 31, 2007 1:31 AM

its not the kids fault hi father was a sex maniac and if the muslim world would start using modern methods to convict rapists and not insisting that you have to have 4 male muslim witnesses instead wht were the 4 doing waiting for there ?there turn?

Posted by: grizlybear at December 31, 2007 2:46 AM

11B40:'I understand that the primary focus of this web site it the Islamic basis of the current clash of our civilizations but, when I think about how the Middle East has held onto the tribal aspects of its culture while the rest of the world has moved on, I can't help but conclude that there is an insidious synergy between the culture and the religion.'

Tend to disagree that western culture is not 'tribalistic' nowadays. Whilst we have indeed 'moved' on, western tribal tendencies tend to be acted out on the sports field rather than the battlefield these days or between rival mobs of football 'fans'. This of course could be put into complete reverse when all the useful idiots wake up, smell the coffee and decide that enough is indeed ... way too much. Pass the ammo!

Posted by: Joshua at December 31, 2007 5:10 AM

...must rapists whackaweiner....

Posted by: exsgtbrown at December 31, 2007 6:27 AM

Citing "Social Stability" is not an argument from scripture...and in a way it is an example ( though strident in tone , ) of a Islamic Country expanding the rights of its women. Yes it is done in a incremental - 'thin edge of the wedge' fashion. But these newly conferred rights have been enjoyed by the women of the West for decades. These rights are known generally as the right of choice...

Posted by: David Xavier at December 31, 2007 6:47 AM

There's no such thing as rape anyway. Well not unless the woman has 4 male muslim witnesses of good character to testify what happened during the rape.

Otherwise, she's just a slut who has led astray a devout muslim male who should be punished (the woman, not the man).

Posted by: Celsius at December 31, 2007 9:00 AM

11B40
"Islam is the secretion of the Arab mind" Andre Servier.

The official name for the dhimmis in the Ottoman empire (although, of course not ruled by Arabs, but Turks with similar tribal/herding mindset) was 'raya', ie. herd of cattle.

Posted by: Silvester at December 31, 2007 9:32 AM

From someone who deeply believes that abortion is murder, please humor me for a minute.

If one is to assume that Islamic women are nothing more than chattel, as according to the Qur'an, then the argument exists that all marriage under Islam is coerced. If this statement is true, then most women in Muslim marriages are victims of rape. This would require, according to Al-Ahzar, that most children conceived in a Muslim marriage be aborted. Certainly would solve the problem, wouldn't it?

The real tragedy in this is that the most "learned" minds in Islam still miss a fundamental understanding of what is sacred. So for them and there brain-addled minions who may by chance read this, here's the truth.

"All Life is sacred."

I personally worship the God of "Creation", not the god of destruction, the one that is the tormentor of unbelievers in hell. On a personal aside, every time I read about Mohamed promising that allah will torment unbelievers in hell it makes me laugh. Silly Muslims, hell is all places God isn't! So what's your god doing there?

Shalom,
Theosebes

Posted by: Theosebes at December 31, 2007 11:47 AM

Yeah well, not that it matters much, because Muslim women who are raped are honor killed by their husbands, brothers, and/or fathers long before they'd have a chance to abort that baby. Gotta protect that family honor, right boys?

What a lovely religion.

Posted by: JenBee at December 31, 2007 12:20 PM

If I were raped in a Muslim society, and was encouraged to seek an abortion, I'd be concerned that the doctor would turn me in so that I could be punished as a rape victim. I suspect that the raped women are between a rock and a hard place.

As to the true incidence of rape, I know a nurse who worked in the Magic Kingdom for several years. She cared for infants and in her opinion, expressed publicly at a professional meeting, many of the babies (of married mothers, naturally) were the result of rape.

P.S. Musselmen have made their presence known at the National March for Life for years - which makes me wonder if Islam is opposed to abortion only to increase the numbers of Musselmen - or is pro-life optional according to the circumstance with the ROP?

Posted by: NavyMom at December 31, 2007 12:51 PM

Islam is the religion of expediency par excellance. Whatever is felt to serve the cause of Islam is right and vice versa, and whatever Muhammed/Allah says is right is right. These are muslims 'moral' yardsticks. There are no ethics in islam.

Posted by: Silvester at December 31, 2007 2:28 PM

"Many factors contribute to the increase in sexual harassment including rising unemployment, the huge cost of marriage and the fact that sex outside marriage is forbidden, experts say."

Rape is not sex. A woman who is being raped is not "having sex". She is being attacked, battered, and violated.

A rapist while raping a woman is not "having sex". He is attacking, battering and violating the woman he is raping.

Every time I hear Mohammedans speak of sexual assault as "having sex", or even worse "sex outside marriage" I could scream in pure rage.

Posted by: Abscedere at December 31, 2007 4:19 PM

David Xavier,

I hope you saw the postings I left for you in recent days; I wanted to show that I did, in fact, respect you and your right to have a viewpoint of your own. Groupthink can be boring and sterile, after all.

Posted by: John C at December 31, 2007 6:29 PM

I think your argument is fundamentally flawed though, David; this isn't about individual choice OR the physical and mental heath of the woman AT ALL.

Posted by: John C at December 31, 2007 6:49 PM

Now all we have to do is get these guys to admit the woman was raped, which will cause men in Muslim dominated societies to have to take responsibility for illicit sexual relations. What makes you think they will bother when the "blame-it-on-the-chick" mentality has served them so well for the past 1400 years?

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at December 31, 2007 7:40 PM

"Musselmen have made their presence known at the National March for Life for years - which makes me wonder if Islam is opposed to abortion only to increase the numbers of Musselmen - or is pro-life optional according to the circumstance with the ROP?" Posted by: NavyMom

To me, being pro-choice means respecting the right of a woman NOT to have an abortion, as much as the right to have one. It is not the same as being pro-abortion (I am certainly not).

We shouldn't be surprised at the apparent contradiction of a religious leader telling women to have abortions. Many of the religious opponents of abortion, whatever their religion happens to be, are not really concerned with the sanctity of life, but with who has control over women's bodies. They detest the idea of women having sexual and reproductive freedom. That's the thinking behind such idiotic things as religious pharmacists refusing to dispense the morning-after pill and other birth control devices. It's not concern for the rights of a fertilized egg, as much as they try to frame it that way.

It is no secret that in many tribal wars - Bangladesh, Bosnia-Herezgovina, Rwanda, for example - rape was and is used as a form of degradation, and sometimes there is a deliberate intent of impregnating as many women as possible, because of the social instability that results. The idea of the enemy is that the presence of these children of rape is a reminder to the other side of their humiliation and defeat; the fact that many if not most of these poor children are in fact killed at birth, abandoned, or neglected is conveniently overlooked.

Religous opponents of abortion don't like to admit it, but most women who are impregnated as a result of rape choose to have abortions if they have the option. Some world religious leaders during past conflicts tried to urge these rape victims to carry their pregnancies to term then allow the babies to be adopted. Easy to say when you're not the rape victim yourself.

Some members of the pro-life movement have even tried to argue that it is impossible for a woman to get pregnant from rape, to discredit the "What about rape victims?" question. This is of course medically ludicrous. It's true that pregnancy is unlikely to result from a rape; about the same likelihood as a pregnancy resulting from one act of consensual sex. If a woman is in the right stage of her cycle, mental or physical trauma don't make any difference to the likelihood of an egg being fertilized; nature is what it is. It's also true that rape victims make up only a tiny minority of women seeking abortions in the U.S., something the pro-life movement also uses to discredit pro-choice rhetoric. No surprise there; consensual sex is far more common than rape, something we should be thankful for in our culture. Go to some countries, for example South Africa, where the frequency of rape is truly staggering.

Personally I can't understand why a woman who was pregnant as the result of rape would not want to have an abortion, but I still respect the choice of a woman who chooses to carry the pregnancy to term. No-one has the right to force her to have an abortion. I'm living in a country right now where forced or coerced abortion is still a very common, dirty little secret, so this is an issue pretty close to home for me right now.

Posted by: angloirishslav at December 31, 2007 11:31 PM

If you ever wondered how Islam came down on the issue of abortion, now you know.

Not that you couldn't see it coming.......

Posted by: tanstaafl at January 1, 2008 1:56 PM