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A Jihad Watch reader recently exclaimed: "So it is perpetual conflict? Of infinite hate ? Of forever manning the barricades... waiting for the miracle ... waiting for the oil to run out? I cannot accept that!"
You "cannot accept that!" In other words, you simply refuse to "accept" the reality of what is contained in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira. You refuse to "accept" the idea that Muslims are taught that they have a central duty to participate in the "struggle" or Jihad to spread Islam, to tear down all barriers to that spread, and then to the dominance, of Islam. You "cannot accept" the idea that Muslims might be inculcated with the notion that the main, the only real division that counts in the world is that between Believer and Infidel. You simply won't "accept" the Muslim view of Dar al-Islam as necessarily expanding at the expense of Dar al-Harb.
You won't "accept" the notion that the Muslim Arabs will never, can never, agree to permit an Infidel nation-state to exist indefinitely in the middle of Dar al-islam, on land that the Muslims once controlled. You won’t “accept” that in this they are aided, for reasons that should be obvious, by those local Arabs who can be considered islamochristians -- that is, those who while nominally "Christians" are also keenly aware of the need to try to win Muslim favor, or at least avoid Muslim disfavor, and have internalized the Muslim view, and promote, especially among credulous Christians in the West, the Muslim agenda, the Muslim goals.
You won't allow yourself to think that just possibly this is not the end of the world, requiring one to engage in avoidance of this unpleasant reality. You won't allow yourself to begin to think of ways that Israel, without surrendering what it has a legal, moral, and historic right to possess, can still survive -- not by further dangerous surrenders of land and control of invasion routes and aquifers and refusing to make its own claims known to the world, and refusing to publicly raise the matter of Islam and the goals of Islam, but by intelligently refusing any more farcical "peace processing" and instead relying on the only thing that has ever kept the peace between Israel and the Arabs. And that is the Arab perception that Israel was overwhelmingly more powerful. That power must not be whittled away by succumbing to salami-like tactics, pushed by the Slow Jihadists. It must not be whittled away by an Israeli political elite that consists, so often, of people who have over time been corrupted (often by rich American "supporters of Israel" who know nothing about Islam, but presume to know what concessions Israel should make, and presume further to know all about the "legitimate rights" of the "Palestinian people"). It must not be whittled away by those who are mentally and emotionally exhausted, and who cannot see clearly what the real situation of Israel is, and always will be, and lack the intelligence and mental stamina to figure out what must be done, and can be done.
The Cold War lasted 70 years. It looked as if it would go on forever. Finally, the Soviet Union collapsed. It is now an unpleasant place, the former Soviet Union. But it is not the threat that it once was. The Russians do not control eastern and central Europe. "World Communism" is no longer a menace. Communists exist, as do Nazis, but they do not possess the power to do damage. If Israel holds on, there are reasons to think that the Money Weapon will diminish, and many of those insisting on it may have not the slightest interest in Israel's survival, or in the menace of Islam, but will be prompted by alarm over anthropogenic climate change. There is reason to think that the entire Infidel world will have to come to its senses about Islam, and help to work to demoralize and divide the Camp of Islam, and even pick some off by appealing to the sense of grievance of non-Arab Muslims, attempting to woo them away from Islam.
That appeal can be based on two things. It can be based on a view of Islam as a vehicle for Arab imperialism, linguistic, cultural, and political and economic as well. It can be based on the fact that Infidels may grasp first, and then in showing that they grasp it, force Muslims to recognize it too, that the failures, political, economic, social, intellectual, and moral, of Muslim states and societies, in or out of Dar al-Islam, are directly connected to Islam itself, with its discouragement of independent thought, its collectivism, its inculcating a habit of mental submission.
This can be done. But you can't think in those terms. It's just too upsetting to think about the reality, and then too difficult to think. Good god, I've done the thinking for you, in a thousand postings on this very subject -- about how the principle of "Darura" or "necessity" may be invoked by the rulers in the circumjacent Arab Muslim states to excuse their failure to attack Israel.
No. You just are going to stomp your foot and say, about the doctrine of permanent Jihad, that "I cannot accept that."
You put me in mind of Margaret Fuller, the tragic Transcendentalist of Concord, who was reported to have said, "I accept the universe!" Hearing this, Carlyle said (perhaps to Emerson, whom he met), "By gad, she'd better."
By gad, you'd better accept the reality of Islam, and the doctrine of Jihad. And so should those who presume to instruct and protect the people of Israel.
Posted by Hugh at January 2, 2008 9:35 AM
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Where do you find such ignorant people, willing to ignore the historical facts, and the texts of Islam which support the unending fight? This person needs to learn history... Please start with the birth of Mohammed and work your way to the modern times...
Posted by: lonewolf![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at January 2, 2008 10:21 AM
"I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"
Patrick Henry's words make more sense to me than the entire Qur'an. And I can accept that.
By the way - watch this clip from MEMRI -http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1643.htm
Turns out that the Freemasons are behind it all!
Notice that even a "Turkish Thinker" cannot come up with a new group to hate - he has to recycle the old stereotypes.
Posted by: tanstaafl at January 2, 2008 11:00 AM
Western society often lives within walls of ignorance. This blissfull ignorance of what Islamic tradition teaches will be it's doom.
Sometimes I wonder what the Western world would be like if those walls were smashed because although it may be chaos for awhile I think people would finally wake up and realize that giving peace a chance with dar-al-islam is usually fatal.
Posted by: DarthMalum at January 2, 2008 12:18 PM
Dear Hugh ,
Okay, so what the hell do we, as individuals do? What can, for example, a young Biology student do to help stop this madness, something that doesn't require letting his work be turned to genocidal purposes? This isn't sarcasm - it's an honest question.
I support AHA and a number of sundry organisations and funds out of the little that I have and try to speak to anyone who'll listen about what exactly Islam is like, what the opinions of Muslims are, and what we are facing with Europe turning rapidly into Eurabia.
What else?
yours Sincerely,
Fanusi Khiyal
Posted by: Fanusi Khiyal at January 2, 2008 12:46 PM
Please tell me how much time you personally have spent living in muslim countries ?
Posted by: john Ryan at January 2, 2008 12:47 PM
The MEMRI clip is quite apropos for this thread. Talk about denying reality. The "scholar" gives no evidence other than his word. Typical of conspiracists. Also notice how he rejects the notion of any one religion exerting domination over the world (zionism), yet he conveniently leaves out islam. In fact he states that the koran says Jesus will return as a muslim. The best part is how the cocaine came to be in his system. I won't spoil it. A must see clip. Thanks tanstaafl.
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1643.htm
at January 2, 2008 1:11 PM
OT (maybe): a Yaser cretin killed his two teenaged daughters. Police have not announced a motive. Honor killing?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,319525,00.html
Posted by: StillBreathing at January 2, 2008 1:11 PM
Still Breathing -
If it looks like an honor killing and sounds like an honor killing - it is an honor killing.
Posted by: tanstaafl at January 2, 2008 1:22 PM
Fanusi
Sounds like you are a newcomer to JW, if so, greetings and welcome. May I suggest:
1. Go to the menu bar at the top of this site and click on Hugh Fitzgerald's name. Within those essays you will find Hugh's prescriptions against the global jihad in many places. It would be better for you to scan a group of them so as not to deprive yourself of learning about the much wider basis for those prescriptions.
IMHO I don't think it is a matter of finding a "punch list" of "things to do" on fighting the global jihad and then going forth until you can check off all items on the the list until they have been completed.
For now, that would be quite a start. It would be doing more than the majority of western politicians have ever done while they battle and search for the elusive "extremists" "fanatics" "fundamentalists" and "terrorists" and wait for a Calvary of moderate muslims to charge in to save infidels from the onslaught of the global jihad.
2. Make JihadWatch.org your homepage so every time you access the internet you won't have to even remind yourself of visiting. Keeping up to date with developments will become automatic. I learn something new about Islam every time I visit this site. I am sure, you will too.
Posted by: USorThem at January 2, 2008 1:25 PM
Fanusi Khiyal,
I know you asked Hugh's advice on what individuals can do--not mine. I've wondered the same thing myself, and I've been pondering it, for a while.
Some posters to JW/DW design and print out flyers, and broadcast those, whenever they get the chance. This is the route I intend to go, this year.
Others have popular blogs; Foehammer's Anvil, and Winds of Jihad to name two of my favorites. If you have the stamina to run a consistant blog, that's a good way to spread the word.
Some of the things that can be done aren't huge things, but they don't necessarily have to be. If you reach one person, the result will be an exponential spread of the truth.
Best of luck to you!
Posted by: Abscedere at January 2, 2008 1:25 PM
"Please tell me how much time you personally have spent living in muslim countries ?
Posted by: john Ryan at January 2, 2008 12:47 PM"
What does that matter?
Posted by: Elric66 at January 2, 2008 1:29 PM
Fanusi Khiyal,
I made my start last week. I purchased the film "Islam: What the West Needs to Know" featuring Robert Spencer and have begun lending and screening it to people within my circles.
Posted by: Hard Rain at January 2, 2008 1:32 PM
Hugh:
Your written voice is clearer in some pieces than others. In this one I could almost physically hear it.
Nice.
==========
PS The "I can't/won't believe the evidence of my own senses" position is depressingly familiar to me.
There is an act of will involved in any knowledge. And no amount of argument seems to make much difference. At a certain point on has to simply choose to believe one's own eye's and believe one's own mind.
An emotionally rooted refusal to believe, well ... there isn't much another person can do but point it out.
It's bad enough in the parlor room. But I fear it dominates in the halls of power.
==========
When you wish upon a star your dreams come true.
- Walt Disney
Wishin' won't make it so.
- My Aunt
at January 2, 2008 1:39 PM
Hugh:
Your written voice is clearer in some pieces than others. In this one I could almost physically hear it.
Nice.
==========
PS The "I can't/won't believe the evidence of my own senses" position is depressingly familiar to me.
There is an act of will involved in any knowledge. And no amount of argument seems to make much difference. At a certain point on has to simply choose to believe one's own eye's and believe one's own mind.
An emotionally rooted refusal to believe, well ... there isn't much another person can do but point it out.
It's bad enough in the parlor room. But I fear it dominates in the halls of power.
==========
When you wish upon a star your dreams come true.
- Walt Disney
Wishin' won't make it so.
- My Aunt
at January 2, 2008 1:42 PM
Ooops. Sorry about the double post.
Not sure how I did that.
Posted by: joeblough at January 2, 2008 1:43 PM
"Please tell me how much time you personally have spent living in muslim countries"
I don't have to attend an neo-Nazi rally to know that their ideology is evil. I don't have to raise a torch at a cross-burning to figure out that the ideas of the KKK are rotten to the core. I don't have to own a slave to determine that slavery crushes humanity, and I don't have to bash gay people to understand that doing so is inhuman.
Similarly, I don't have to silence, immure, threaten, imprison, assault, rape, beat, acid-burn, flog, hang, stone, shoot or strangle women by the Koran's command to know that Islam is just plain bad from the get-go. Thanks for the invitation, though.
Posted by: Marwan'sDaughter at January 2, 2008 1:44 PM
Amen MD.
Though I can claim I have been to Muslim countries but you dont have to live there to know the oppression and evilness of Sharia law.
All John Ryan needs to do is educate himself on Islam and stop the strawman arguements.
I never lived in the Soviet Union but I know it was an evil empire as Reagan stated.
Posted by: Elric66 at January 2, 2008 1:50 PM
In my estimation, Fitzgerald's brief op/ed above encapsulates the real threat we face, in other words, our own Willful Ignorance.
Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at January 2, 2008 2:18 PM
I really can't understand why someone would think that, "I can't accept that" has any relevance to anything! I can't accept gravity either (makes my scale register WAY too high!) but not accepting it's existence doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Reminds me of a discussion I had about jihadism with one of the many knee-jerk liberals I know; not being able to counter what I was actually saying, he came back with "but we have to assume we're dealing with rational people." Oh really??!!!
Would that it were so--even if you have your head in the sand you will still get your *ss kicked!
at January 2, 2008 2:19 PM
I've never underestimated the ability of some people to fool themselves right up to the moment somebody puts a gun to their head and pulls the trigger. History is full of such tragic examples, one of which cost over 40 million lives last century. The few brave souls who tried to warn the world about the real intentions of Adolf Hitler and his Nazi horde were promptly labeled "alarmists" and "hatemongers", were made the butt of jokes and derision, were marginalized and pushed out of government - that is, until the bombs started to fall. Even then, many people in America didn't think they had any reason to involve themeselves in what they viewed as a purely European problem, until the Japanese Imperial fleet crashed the party.
If 9-11 didn't rouse these people from their politically correct complacency, I hate to think what would. God help us.
Posted by: lilgadfly at January 2, 2008 2:43 PM
Hugh and I have had our disagreements, sometimes intense, but here he has hit on something that resonates close to home for me. I'd like to share two stories that correspond with his thesis.
The first was an email to my sister, pre 9-11, in which I was characteristically sounding the alarm about Islamic intolerance. I personalized my message that day by suggesting to her that, if we are not careful, her daughter and mine might be wearing a head-scarf someday.
She was indignant in her reply and in no uncertain terms read me the riot act, claiming I was stereotyping, that Muslims are no such threat, that I shouldn't brainwash my daughter to fear them, etc.
On the afternoon of Sept 11, 2001, she called me with a tearful apology. When I asked her why she had reacted so vehemently to my email, she said it all: "because I was afraid...afraid of the implications of what you wrote."
In other words, like the poster Hugh refers to, her fear was so debilitating that she preferred to contort reality rather than face it.
The other example was a client I once had, a very nice, intelligent, Jewish woman with whom I discussed Islam at length. She kept singing the praises of multiculturalism, and when I presented a cogent counter-argument, her response was (verbatim): "dialogue is the only answer, otherwise, we're all screwed."
Once again, wishful thinking was preferable to facing the ugly reality. The fact is, WE ARE SCREWED!...just like Britain was in 1938. And all Chamberlain's machinations didn't change a Goddamn'd thing.
As for what to do, the process of exposition and education must proceed apace until that day in the dim future when the schools, universities, media and political class will finally begin portraying the reality of Islam in all its theological and historical infamy...and Muslims will be actively and systematically encouraged to apostate, with de-programming services well-funded and readily available.
Pipe dream? Maybe....maybe not. War is tragic, but it does have a way of excelerating historical processes.
Posted by: Cornelius
at January 2, 2008 2:59 PM
Cornelius,
I think thats the main reason, fear. For as your sister point out, its the implication of it. Islam isnt a nation per say that it has no borders. Once you admit that Islam is a violent ideology, then you have hard decisions to make if you want to survive. Most rather wear blinders and hope it all works out because the alternative is too horrible to think.
Me personally, I rather deal with it now because the longer you wait, the worse it will get when you fight back.
Posted by: Elric66 at January 2, 2008 3:05 PM
Please tell me how much time you personally have spent living in muslim countries
15 years in all
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2008/01/where-i-live-pt-19-jakarta.html
Posted by: shiva at January 2, 2008 3:30 PM
It reminds me of the atmosphere in former Yugoslavia before the wars of 1990s. Serbs were being badly persecuted in other republics and Serbian province Kosovo, but it was forbidden to speak about it in public because of communist doctrine of "brotherhood and unity". So everyone keeped their mouth shut, went to work, lived as usual, while our enemies prepared weapons against us. I remember watching on the news with disbelief - Yugoslav secret service exposed Croats and Albanians smuggling arms and preparing for war and - nobody did nothing about it. Insane and schizophrenic as it is, Serbs "couldn't accept it". We couldn't accept that our friends and "comrades" with whom lived with in "harmony" and "peace" will start killing us. Despite recent hitory in WWII when they killed us in hundreds of thousands in death camps... That is how naive we were. Until it all exploded before our closed eyes. And when we took up arms to defend ourselves, we were proclaimed as "aggressors"... But, that's already a history.
Speaking of the future, I hope Americans will soon recognize what's happening. It is already too late to prevent the war, but it is never too late to defend your self.
Posted by: LazarOfSerbia at January 2, 2008 3:34 PM
"This can be done. But you can't think in those terms. It's just too upsetting to think about the reality, and then too difficult to think. Good god, I've done the thinking for you, in a thousand postings on this very subject -- about how the principle of "Darura" or "necessity" may be invoked by the rulers in the circumjacent Arab Muslim states to excuse their failure to attack Israel.
No. You just are going to stomp your foot and say, about the doctrine of permanent Jihad, that "I cannot accept that."
-------------
Stomp the foot AND take us all down with them.... We will go down but we will go down with the moral high, which means so much to us when were dead !
Posted by: Sneakyzionistcrusader at January 2, 2008 3:53 PM
4:101 The disbelievers are an open enemy to you.
I find it hard to accept the fact that I, as a good Citizen, am forced to fly on airplanes with individuals who pray five times a day to a god who directs them to kill me. As a matter of fact, it really pisses me off.
Things we can do:
1. Visit your elected representatives and present them with a nicely worded letter, explaining your concerns and asking them to investigate the funding sources of CAIR. When you get the form letter back in a month, take it back to the office, look the guy in the eye, and ask for an explanation as to why your representative will not address your concern. It makes an impression on the office and is therapeutic to boot;
2. Send twenty bucks to Jihadwatch and/or Michael Savage;
3. Meet with your local Community Development Director (at City Hall or the County Seat) and have him insert language into the next code revision to the effect that new developments be required to submit evidence of the economic impact of similar developments. Write it so that the Community Development Director is empowered to commission an independent study if the development is unprecedented in the community;
4. Take advantage of the Second Amendment, recognizing that the State of Maryland has either tried, or succeeded in placing a $5/round tax on ammunition. Get a concealed carry permit while they are still being offered.
Happy New Year all.
at January 2, 2008 4:09 PM
Well, this is the second 'honor killing' here in the US. First, in Ohio a few years back. Her kin walked on a technicality.
I agree with pez @ 4 above, among other points. Be ready. Be trained. Be legally armed. Cops can't be everywhere and aren't supposed to be everywhere.
As for Hugh's original post ... BOOM! Direct hit again.
They're not at the gate, they're inside the walls.
Posted by: undaunted at January 2, 2008 4:27 PM
Fanusi Khiyal
Create a blog my friend, it's small fry compared to what our forces are doing in he ME or our political intellects Ayaan Hirsi Ali does, or Gert Wilder or Mr Spencer, but the more blogs out there which highlight the dangers of extreme islam then the less chance they have of shutting us down.
Here's mine, it's simple and from the heart.
http://leonthepigfarmer.blogspot.com/
at January 2, 2008 4:52 PM
I have already bookmarked this essay and thread for future use.
I wish that more could share stories of how others observe the "fear factor" when relaying the ugly honest truth about global jihad to those in denial, similar to what Cornelius relays.
I have become a shameless proselytizer for the counter-jihad and have made quite a pest of myself in doing so, but, I do, on occasion, make a "sale".
Once people start to get the big picture, they are certainly interested, if not just entertained by little factoids I throw at them. But as soon as you can see a glimmer in their eye and are about to close the deal they say. "you can't mean that 1/6 of humanity want to kill us or convert us do you? OH, that just can't be. It's impossible." Of course that is not what I am saying. But connecting the empirical evidence to those numbers does give reason to pause and think, at least in my experience. And that's when the fear factor sets in. Either they except it or they shut down right then and there. The numbers and implications can be just too great for them to fathom.
In fact, just before coming to this thread, I responded to a poster at this blog ( http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2008/01/02/nashville-tn-muslim-mayor-by-2015/#comments )
who was incredulous to the suggestion that muslims might soon infiltrate many of the political and social insitutions in Nashville TN, where muslim immigrants have grown in surprising large numbers of late.
It would be nice to able to direct those in doubt to a source, such as found in this thread, to show that there are many others who have had the same fear but ultimately accepted the possibilities.
Please do share your "conversion" tales if you have any to tell.
Posted by: USorThem at January 2, 2008 5:59 PM
Once again Hugh has, with verve and aplomb (sorry, been reading my dictionary again) given us a clear and understandable tretise (sic) that can't be argued with. As for myself, in answer to those who ask, "what can I do?". here is one suggestion. I have gone to my local community TV station and now have a weekly TV show called "Islam Today" where I take all that Hugh, Robert, Marisol, et al have taught me and speak directly to those who watch. I may not reach all those out there in the beginning, but with time I expect to garner more than a handful of viewers. Also, I have contacted the local mosque and Imam, the MSU on the U of O campus (Oregon) and the Islamic Society and extended an invitation to come on the show and debate me. No answer yet, but I will push as hard as I can to get these people to discuss Islam. I can only do what one man can, and this is my contribution, for now. I may also post them on YouTube, if so I will let all know. Lets keep up the good fight, people, for it is we who will man the front lines and take this war to our enemies.
"Kaffers of the world, Unite!"
"Islam, abusing women and children since 622AD"
at January 2, 2008 6:21 PM
Although I've been reading Jihad/Dhimmiwatch for over a year this is the first time I've commented. I want to second all those above who suggested that what one could do is write a blog.
But go one step further and become an expert on some tiny aspect of the overall problem we face and focus your blog.
In July a friend and I began writing Refugee Resettlement Watch when we discovered that Virginia Council of Churches was bringing mostly Muslim refugees to our city in rural Maryland.
We couldn't get adequate answers from anyone about how this federal immigration program worked, so we set out to become experts (well, we aren't quite that yet!).
At first I balked at writing a blog because I am tech-impaired, but it has really been very simple.
Now we are making some real progress on alerting people to the quiet Jihad by working with reporters, other blogs, grassroots groups and citizens who are concerned about what is happening to their cities and towns with the influx of refugees esp. those from Muslim countries.
Posted by: Ann at January 2, 2008 6:55 PM
Fanusi Khiyal
What can you do?
Write.
Write to the editors of the newspapers you read when you come across articles that seem to obscure or distort the role of Islam in terrorism. Challenge them to tell the truth, but do so politely, and equip yourself with some facts when you write.
Write to your political leaders when you learn about actions they do which seem to obscure or distort the role of Islam in terrorism, or when they seem confused about Islam, or appear to be repeating the propaganda of their Muslim handlers. Challenge them to tell the truth, but do so politely, and equip yourself with some facts when you communicate.
Write in blogs and in "have your say" comments sections at online sites, and whenever and wherever the subject arises, but do so politely, and equip yourself with some facts when you communicate.
Also, buy and read a book on the subject of Islam by one of the writers attempting to bring the issue of Jihad to a wider audience. This helps them in their efforts, and equips you with the critical information you'll need to do your part. There is LOTS you can do!
Posted by: jsla at January 2, 2008 7:38 PM
Ann -- your idea is excellent! Good luck with it. Number of Christian organizations helping Muslims? Thousands upon thousands across the world. Number of Muslim organizations helping non-Muslims? Nearly none across the world.
Posted by: jsla at January 2, 2008 7:40 PM
Several people above have written about discovering, to their horror, how their small towns are now places where Muslims are settling --and being aided by Christian groups --as "refugees." But why are Muslims "refugees" from Muslim countries? What persecution are they fleeing? Or are they merely leaving places that are hell-holes because of Islam, and coming here, and yet not leaving Islam, the unreocgnized source of the political, economic, and social failures of their own countries, but rather bringing Islam in their mental baggage, and what's more, not only unpacking it here, but attempt to spread it around.
For an analysis of what is happening, for example, in the unlikely Muslim-magnet of Nashville, Tennessee, read at www.newenglishreview.org a new article by Rebecca Bynum.
Posted by: Hugh at January 2, 2008 8:19 PM
What is funny is people who will vote and think Islams goal will be changed by who is elected .
Disengaments and isolation is the only next step then you point a sharp ass stick in Islams eye.
at January 2, 2008 9:27 PM
I just came across a great line in a news article;
"But as British writer Nick Cohen notes, what the Islamists hate is not the worst of us but the best of us: human rights, the rule of law, the equality of women and all those other freedoms we take so much for granted."
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22995050-7583,00.html
at January 2, 2008 9:27 PM
It strikes me that there are two sides of this story of denial.
Muslims too are victims of Islam's deceit. I mean, see it this way...
You happen to be born into a Muslim family. You are told since being very little nice things about Islam by people you trust and who love you -your parents, aunts, uncles. It's basically a loving encounter. You're taught to love Mohammed, so you do. I mean, nobody tells you the bad bits, so you grow up genuinely believing it's a religion of peace. That's been your experience.
As you grow older, maybe you start to notice that some things are not quite right - the violent verses - the odd 'strict' imam who despite telling you God is mercy and compassion, doesn't seem to embody these qualities himself. But, heh, it's your identity, and nobody's talking about the oddish bits; you accept it like you accept bad weather or getting sick. It happens. It's 'normal'. Don't worry.
I know it's fashionable on this blog to accuse Muslims of deception. But the biggest liars I ever met were people who didn't set out to deceive you. They just so totally believed their own lies they had you believing them too, such was their complete sense of their innocence.
So, suppose your this kind of Muslim: you believe in your own good faith; and, substantially, you are a person of good faith... you're just ignorant of the real Islam. I mean, it's got to come as a complete shock? Isn't it? You're going to deny it and deny it, because you know in your heart you're a good person. So how do we break it to such people?
Posted by: devorgilla at January 2, 2008 9:49 PM
So how do we break it to such people?
Posted by: devorgilla at January 2, 2008 9:49 PM
We shouldn't have to "break it" to such people, they should see it for themselves. Muslims living in the West, especially recent immigrants, should be instantly attuned to the incongruities, misconceptions, and blatant lies they have believed all their lives simply by what they see, hear, and experience. When they see that non-muslims are kind, moral, charitable, honest, compassionate people, serious doubts and questions about their malevolent religion should immediately arise.
But you must understand that the single most unforgivable crime of a non-muslim is to be a non-muslim, or an "unbeliever." If one does not accpt muhammad as God's final prophet, one is doomed to eternal hell and is considered evil for rejecting muhammad's revelation. Muslims actually believe that everyone is born muslim; that is why converts to islam call themselves "reverts." Actually, they are perverts but they get a rush when they join the bully clique and become "the best of people." "Reverts" to islam are among the most pathetic of all humanity, second only to those miserable souls born into this loathsome death cult.
When muslims are exposed to the vibrant, prosperous, successful, beautiful, exciting world created and sustained by non-muslims, they should instinctively run from the netherworld of islam. What it all boils down to in very simple terms is this: In islam, good is evil and evil is good. Their idea of pious behavior is modeled after that of muhammad, who was a butcher, rapist, pedophile, and genocidal maniac. Do you really think these people have any conception of morality as we define it? They do not belong among us; they should live in their own desolate world where misery, desperation, and sharia dictate every tiny aspect of their lives of self-imposed wretchedness.
Posted by: Susanp at January 2, 2008 11:15 PM
susanp; it's essential to separate the coercive and violent aspects of this 'religion' from peoples' desire to have a belief system.
Virtually all Western faiths indulge in brainwashing techniques on their youngest members; it's in their best intended efforts to practice what they preach.
However, as we Westerners are slowly learning, there's a vast difference between Christian proselytizing and Muslim domination. Nobody
from MY community is hounding me for being a secular Jew, an atheist. Nobody cares!
In confronting apologists for Islam, you WILL be presented with arguments attacking Christianity and Judaism, many of them historical in context. It's not enough to rail against Islam's darker side, you(we) need to feel confident in answering those charges against OUR beliefs. It's not especially helpful when visitors to JW/DW are attacked (in some cases quite vituperatively) because they haven't been totally convinced (yet).
I doubt that anybody has been brought onside by an ad hominum attack (not suggesting that you would do that!). It's a slow process bringing somebody around that has built their life on a set of values that aren't serving them well in this present situation.
at January 3, 2008 3:05 AM
"We couldn't get adequate answers from anyone about how this federal immigration program worked, so we set out to become experts (well, we aren't quite that yet!)."
"Citizenship and Immigration Services, the federal agency that oversees this guest-worker program, can't answer basic questions including:
-- How many foreign-born professionals are working in the United States on H-1B visas now?
-- What percentage of H-1B visa holders seek green cards instead of returning home?
-- How many H-1B visa holders and family members are awaiting green cards?
"The cumulative numbers you are looking for simply aren't available," said Citizenship and Immigration Services spokesman Chris Bentley. "These are not issues we track."
...on the I-485, Application to Register Permanent Residence or Adjust Status...you will find the questions:
Do you intend to engage in the United States in:
espionage?
any activity a purpose of which is opposition to, or the control or overthrow of, the government of the United States, by force, violence or other unlawful means?
any activity to violate or evade any law prohibiting the export from the United States of goods, technology or sensitive information?
...these are just yes/no questions....on the form there are several questions regarding any relationship you may have with Communism...there are several questions concerning your relationship with Cuba....
....no where on this form or the others I looked up was the word Muslim or Islam mentioned....
......when it comes to Federal Immigration policies...they are worthless...they do not even ask the right questions (not that the applicant would truthfully answer them)....
...it is no small wonder the Muslim radicals laugh at how easy it is to get into the country...
...Ban Muslim Immigration...Muslim Immigration is pointless and harmful to the host country....
at January 3, 2008 6:57 AM
Hi Susanp,
'When they see that non-muslims are kind, moral, charitable, honest, compassionate people, serious doubts and questions about their malevolent religion should immediately arise.'
Well, that was my point really. What if they've never been told about this? Or never been told in a clear, unequivocal way? What if they believe all the bull about the 'religion of peace'? What if they're victims of this con too?
Posted by: devorgilla at January 3, 2008 7:32 PM
Hi Fanusi,
you've probably gone by now but if you're interested in alerting your fellows to jihad and how to combat it, here is some advice I received from Amil Imani (www.amilimani.com)
With respect to the multifaceted problems of theMiddle East, a multi-prong, long-term, strategy isneeded. A partial set of proposed actions is listedbelow.
* The overarching goal should be the ideological defeat of Islamism. A comprehensive long-term campaign of education, using all available media, and pointing out the errors and futility of this cult of death and destruction should be directedat the masses of Muslims. The ever-burgeoning Islamic communities in the West should be assisted in breaking with Islam and join the free people of their new homelands with a new vision of life.
* The oil Sheikhs of Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States, who have been leading a charmed life under the protection of the United States, should be told that they must mend their ways and do so without delay or equivocation. They must fully purge all their media from engaging in hate-propagating indoctrinations of the populace.
* Arab governments and Sheikhs should completely cease supporting any exclusionary or hate-based Islamic orders or organizations such as mosques, Islamic centers, madresehs, and lobbyists.
* The free societies should enact laws to prosecute the Imams and Mullahs, the traditional lead communicators of the Islamic hate virus, who take advantage of the freedom they enjoy by instilling bigotry in their congregations.
* The U.S. government should, without delay, underwrite a massive program of making the nation energy independent so that the Islamic gas station nations could no longer hold the country hostage for oil. Each citizen, in the meantime, must do everything possible to conserve energy and deny the flow of dollars to the coffers of the enemy.
And much much more we can do to help those who wantout.
at January 4, 2008 4:18 AM
Islam is being slowly transformed by the West. The Theocracy of Iran , the Taliban are brutal reactions to this westernisation...things are changing slowly ,but for the better.
Jihad watch and Dhimmi watch think differently ( they have a vested interest in doing so) and feed us tit-bits and small morsals that are supposedly representative of the true or coming Islam. Yet the infrequency ( sometimes trival nature ) of these examples is evidence that 'hard' Islam is on the wane and 'apathetic' Islam is waxing. For Example: The West isnt deluged with honour killings ( In the West we also have an equivalent - the stalking murder-suicide ). Such crimes have linkage to Islam or societal disconnection - but they are essentially crimes of passion.
The 'perpetual conflict' and 'infinite hate' referred to Israel's situation ( though its extrapolated to the world by H.F) I do not accept that this needs to be the case. Even Mr Fitzgerald doesnt as he explicitly states ' there are reasons to think" that Islam can be tamed , like Communism. That Communism isnt dangerous becuase it has been defeated , it has no base , the USSR is gone , it is discredited and reduced to small groups of adherents that are not dangerous. ( Though surely this comparision is wishful thinking as Islam is a religion that is reckoned to be irrational and apocalyptic. And in the age of WMD's small clusters of such people would be somewhat disconcerting.)
In fact , Mr Fitzgerald agrees with me that perpetual conflict is unacceptable and there are reasons to think that Islam can be trnsformed. The difference is that he wants a "cold war" that asserts , marginalises and defeats his Stalinistic Islamic spectre. Accordingly in his manichaean view , Islam is a 'Evil Empire' even though Islam is a divided dissimilar amorphous chunk of humanity and that we in the West are morally obliged to "take it down"....even if this will take generations and generations . Whats more if you dont believe in his solution then you live outside of 'reality' and are part of the problem.
The current leadership of Israel shouldnt be blamed for not buying into this epic 'good verses evil' view of the world. Olmert is right in trying to achieve an imperfect solution , a cold peace at least with the Palestinians ( opps theres no such thing as a Palestinian is there!) The current Israeli leadership has the courage and the audacity to hope for a better future for their children that can be realised sooner...within a generation as opposed to many generations. This is surely a noble gamble...properly done from strenght.
Many snigger at Margaret Fullers pomposity ( mostly men). Of course Mr Fitzgerald ironically puts himself in the place of Carlyle , a scholar of German literature , an essayist and author. But also a bigoted reactionary , admirer of Mohummad and proto-fascist. A positively Freudian choice on Mr Fitzgerald's part. Margaret Fuller may have believed in the 'Universe' but Carlyle would have reduced this 'Universe' to hell in belief that it would be better.
Posted by: David Xavier at January 5, 2008 1:05 AM
david xavier
you do like the ad hominem don't you? Do you even begin to realize how much you have exposed yourself in your last few postings, by the tactics you have employed against your interlocutors?
So, dear sir, it is question time. I want to know what your qualifications are, that allow you to dismiss out of hand, with such barely disguised contempt, Spencer's and Fitzgerald's reading of Islam past-and-present, their scholarship, and their advice and counsel as to the best way for the Infidel world (not just the West) to respond to the current onslaught of Jihad and Da'wa. I assume you also find the work of Bat Yeor, Andrew Bostom, Jacques Ellul, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ibn Warraq, Wafa Sultan, Phyllis Chesler, Nonie Darwish, Mark Gabriel, V S Naipaul, Mark Durie, and Bishop Patrick Sookhdeo (author of "Islam in Britain") to be likewise beneath contempt?
Now for the questions. I am giving my own answers and I assure you I am telling the truth.
I won't, of course, ask for your real name, any more than I will give mine (but here's a hint: you'll find hundreds of my relatives if you visit Strabane in Ireland).
How old are you? (I am 44).
What is your country of birth? (Mine is Australia).
What is your nationality? (I am an Australian).
What is your first language? - I would guess your first language is not English, by the way. ( my first language is English).
What is the highest level of education you have attained? (I have two degrees under my belt: an Honours degree in Arts, and a doctorate, both from old and internationally recognised universities in my home country).
Now: why do I ask? I ask because I do not see, in your postings, any evidence that you possess any special qualifications that would allow you to dismiss out of hand the judgement and study of, for example, Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald.
I, on the other hand, trust them, and those others that I named in the list above, because *I know good writing and good thinking when I see it*.
From 1981 until 1995 I lived and breathed academia. I read some of the greatest authors, and the greatest scholars, that the West has produced. I didn't just read what people thought about them - I read the works themselves. I read 'outside the box' - I read Leo Strauss, I read all of Jacques Ellul's oeuvre [some in French, some in English translation, I read Abraham Heschel, I read Winston Churchill's History of World War II (all of it!). And that has taught me to recognise good writing, solid scholarship, sound judgement and clear thinking.
In Robert Spencer, Bat Yeor, Jacques Ellul, V S Naipaul ...and Hugh Fitzgerald! - I recognise good writing, rock-solid scholarship, and clear, original thinking. I trust their judgement.
I don't trust yours. Your postings, over the past month or two, appear confused, they are all over the place, and they create confusion; at present I reserve judgement as to whether that confusion is an intended or an unintended result.
Two final questions.
Do you know what John Quincy Adams, the great anti-slavery campaigner, thought about Islam? If you know: do you think he was right? (I do).
And what do you think of Signora Oriana Fallaci? (Me, I think she's brilliant and I agree completely with her assessment of Messrs Arafat and Khomeini).
at January 6, 2008 8:35 PM
Ladies and gentlemen
david xavier claims, above, that the West is NOT 'deluged with honor killings' and tries a little spin, i.e. that 'everybody does it', that Islam has such has little or nothing to do with, for example, the murder of Aqsa Parvez in Canada or the murders of Amina and Sarah Said in the USA. (I think we are supposed to forget all about that rather inconvenient Yemeni Muslim newspaper columnist and his approval of male violence against women, his representation of it as necessary in order to preserve the Muslim familial and social order).
I would remind mr 'xavier' that the classic 'crime passionelle' in the West, as depicted in, for example, I Pagliacci, involves the murder of a woman by her lover or her husband, NOT the murder of a young woman by her father, uncle/s, brother/s or even, quite often, her MOTHER).
I advise anyone confused by xavier's posting to go consult the books and articles of Wafa Sultan, Phyllis Chesler, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and become unconfused.
Here is Ayaan Hirsi Ali, in "Infidel" (pp. 295-96)
"Hard numbers were completely unavailable. When I tried to find out about honor killings, for instance - how many girls were killed every year in Holland by their fathers and brothers because of their precious family honour - civil servants at the Ministry of Justice would tell me, 'We don't register murders based on that category of motivation. It would stigmatise one group in society." The Dutch government registered the number of drug-related killings and traffic accidents every year, but not the number of honor killings, because no Dutch official wanted to recognise that this kind of murder happened on a regular basis.
"Even Amnesty International didn't keep statistics...
"I decided that if I were to become a member of the Dutch Parliament, it would become my holy mission to have these statistics registered".
On page 309 she writes,
"I wanted Parliament to pass a motion that would require the police to register how many honor killings took place in Holland each year. After weeks of wheeling and dealing...the minister of justice, Piet Donner, did agree to a motion that I had concocted with the Labor Party, but he said he wanted to try it out first, as a 'pilot project', in just two police regions. Months later, when the results were announced, Parliament was shocked...Between October 2004 and May 2005, eleven Muslim girls were killed by their families in just those two regions (there are 25 such regions in Holland). After that people stopped telling me I was exaggerating".
at January 6, 2008 8:59 PM
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