Not only do Muslims need to control everyone's life while they are here. They have to control everyone's deaths too?

I'm glad there is no coercion in that religion.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at January 3, 2008 12:09 AM

Insanity, but then again, that is Islam.

Posted by: awake at January 3, 2008 12:33 AM

Ooooh boy. Reminds me of all the death bed confessions made by supposed members of assassination plots and Roswell military personnel. Man, islam is such a plagiarist cult. Yo mohammedans, get yer own kool-aid.

Posted by: Kevin at January 3, 2008 12:48 AM

From the article:

He said the letter of conversion was not in compliance with the provisions of Section 90(1) of the Administration of Islamic Law (Federal Territories) Act, 1993, as it was not given to Wong before her death.

This is intriguing. If the letter of conversion had been delivered to her prior to her death, then she would have been converted to Islam in accordance with the law?

I found this 2001 case of a Malaysian woman (Lina Joy) who petitioned to leave Islam and become a Christian. She was denied, with:

I therefore conclude that the plaintiff is a Malay. By art. 160 of the Federal Constitution the plaintiff is a Malay and therefore as long as she is a Malay by that definition she cannot renounce her Islamic religion at all. As a Malay the plaintiff remains in the Islamic faith until her dying days.

Some other quotes from the decision in her case:

The plaintiff was born a Muslim, lived as a Muslim with her family and was commonly reputed to be a Muslim. All this was strong evidence of her being a person who professed the religion of Islam. Therefore, the plaintiff, at all material times, was a Muslim

So, if someone is "commonly reputed" to be a Muslim, they are therefore a Muslim. If a group of Muslims claim you are a Muslim, congratulations, you are.

And in this chillingly Kafkaesque quote:

By a summons in chamber dated 28 September 2000 (encl. 10), the 1st
defendant is applying to strike out the plaintiff’s application under O. 18
r. 19 RHC 1980 and/or under the inherent jurisdiction of the court on the
following grounds:
(i) it discloses no reasonable cause of action;
(ii) it is scandalous, frivolous or vexatious;
(iii) it is otherwise an abuse of the process of the court.
The ground of the application is that this High Court has no jurisdiction to
hear this action because the jurisdiction lies in the Syariah Courts as the
plaintiff is still a Muslim.

The court is saying that she cannot request permission to become a Christian unless she goes through the sharia court, and that she has therefore brought a frivolous and abusive case before the court. You don't want to vex the court in an Islamic nation.

Looking at the wording of the first part of art. 11(1) it is clear that “every person has the right to profess and practise his religion”.

This sounds promising, but guess what, there's a catch:

When read together art. 11(1) must
necessarily be qualified by provisions on Islamic law on apostasy enacted
pursuant to art. 74 list II in respect of the plaintiff’s intention to convert out
of the Islamic religion.

So, she's still subject to Islamic apostasy laws. I wonder why she doesn't want to go to a sharia court and tell them she intends to leave Islam?

But my favorite newspeak part is the one on "harmonious construction":

In order to ascertain the extent of religious freedom to profess under art. 11(1)
is to adopt the rule of harmonious construction which requires the court to
give effect to the relevant articles conjunctively and disjunctively. [...] the
Federal Court held that cl. (1A) of Act 121 should not be read in isolation or
given literal interpretation “… Because literal interpretation would give rise to consequences which the legislatures could not possibly have intended ...” [...] It is therefore important that art. 11(1) should not be read in
isolation. Article 11(1) must be construed harmoniously with the other relevant
provisions on Islam

So, whatever protections article 11(1) gives you, that is subject to the "harmonious" merging with Islamic law. Guess what? You lose. What kind of a legal system does not even follow its own law literally or strictly?

So, to sum up, if you're a Muslim in Malaysia, you must remain one until your "dying days". And if you're not a Muslim, they just need to send you the proper form before you die, and Bingo! You are a Muslim.

But as Isabellathecrusader said, at least there's not coercion.

Posted by: special_guest at January 3, 2008 2:17 AM

*bogglement*...I'm speechless.
That pretty much puts 'Paid' to any suggestion that Islam is about faith. Likely the same folks that count the ballots at election time...

Posted by: DaninVan at January 3, 2008 2:26 AM

Bodysnatchers!

I thought it was only the Mormons who went in for converting dead people...yes, that's why they're so big on genealogy, they're tracking down their ancestors (and yours...) and then, I gather, there's a ceremony that can be gone through and bingo! great great great grandma (Catholic or Anglican, Lutheran or Salvation Army, doesn't matter) is a Mormon.

But this Muslim trick, which has happened before in Malaysia, of telling the newly bereaved nearest and dearest - parents or spouse - that deceased had "converted to Islam", when the family hadn't the least idea...when it seems very likely that the claim is utterly false...this makes me feel sick. It's so obviously calculated to hurt. Dominance games, mind control, Big Lies.

I wonder if they'd have the cheek to try it on, even if deceased was a red-hot Catholic who'd received the viaticum two minutes before dying?

Wong's certainty that his wife was a practising Christian at the time of her death makes me wonder - if he was present, he may have reason to believe this because of, for example, a dying prayer.

In some ways this story reminds me of the story behind the cover picture on Bostom's new book, Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism. There, in Morocco in 1834, a Muslim girl declared that her Jewish friend had converted to Islam. When the Jewish girl, one Sol Hachuel, declared indignantly that she had done no such thing, that she was and had always been a JEW, she was instantly accused of apostasy. And, in the end, the Muslims publicly executed her for 'apostasy' - since the Muslima said Sol had become a Muslim, Sol's resolute insistence on saying she was a Jew, and had never been anything other than a Jew, could only be lies, couldn't it, to cover up her apostasy from Islam to Judaism...?

It is stories like this - the claimed 'conversion' of Wong Sau Lan and the snatching of her body away from her husband; the execution of Sol Hachuel for insisting on her Jewish faith in contradiction of a Muslim's claim that she had become Muslim - that fill me with revulsion for what Hugh calls "the atmospherics" of Islam.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at January 3, 2008 5:17 AM

"... he was informed ...."

....typical Muslim tactic....

Ban Muslim Immigration ... Muslim immigration is pointless and harmful to the host country...

Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 3, 2008 6:18 AM

So does Indonesia have the same convoluted laws?

You know, the country where Barak Hussien Obama was registered as a Muslim at school?

Just what we need. A Muslim president!

Posted by: Aunt Bea at January 3, 2008 6:49 AM

Don't tell me that Muslims are into necrophilic conversions.

Posted by: Crusader at January 3, 2008 7:37 AM

This is how they can claim a billion people are muslims.

Posted by: CLL1709 at January 3, 2008 9:14 AM

Uh, what do they gain if she is claimed as a dead moslem? Numbers? How far back in time can we go with this numbers game? Oh, I forgot....Adam (really tall guy) and Eve were moslem....which is a pretty good trick, since islam didn't come along till the 7th century A.D.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at January 3, 2008 11:47 AM

We Jovian conspirators can always sell 'em the Kool-Aid, Kevin. Hey, it works at Roswell!

Posted by: John C at January 3, 2008 12:12 PM

I have the same question as interestingconundrum. I know how every convert to Islam is a new enlistee in the army of Mohammed, but how does that apply to dead people? If I'm not wrong in thinking that Malaysia is the only country that does this, looks like other less 'moderate' Islamic countries are at least more sane, and don't try to indulge in such worthless exercises. Unless this is a step towards future policies that would allow Malaysia to try and forcibly convert the survivors to Islam, claiming of course that it was in the will of the dead converts, and like in the above case, who could dispute it?

Similar to what they did to Gen Murthy - their Hindu commander in chief who died climbing Mt Everest.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at January 3, 2008 12:13 PM

"The reports of my death were greatly exaggerated."
- Mark Twain

"The reports of my conversion were greatly exaggerated."
- Wong Sau Lan

Posted by: tanstaafl at January 3, 2008 12:16 PM

Then why doesn't the Malaysian Religion Department issue the same for everyone worldwide.

Then the muslims can quit trying to kill and convert the world. The muslims can just hold up a piece of paper saying that they have proof that everyone is a muslim.

In the mean time can we start creating paperwork and documentation on a few Malaysian goverment officials that show several of them are Jews, and/or are conspiring with the Zionists? I think everyone should be a Jew or Christian. And if people in Malaysia found out that some of them were Jewish, they would have a great party for them.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at January 3, 2008 2:16 PM

There are other legal inplications to Wong's posthumous "conversion" to Islam.

If Wong is recognized as a Muslima, it would invalidate Ngiam's marriage to her so that Muslims could seize any property that is in her name. Also, if Ngiam and Wong have children, they could be declared Muslim by virtue of the mother's "conversion" and forced to embrace Islam. If they refuse, they can be declared apostates and have thier property taken as well.

This seems to be another case typical of the openly racist policies of Malaysia, where the economically backward Muslim Malays use any legal subterfuge to steal from the prosperous and hard-working Chinese.

Posted by: Provoslavni at January 3, 2008 2:19 PM

On your deathbed would you rather seek forgiveness from Jesus who told the repentant thief "today you will be with Me in Paradise" or take your chances with the Mohamedan deity who delights in filling hell with women. Mohamedan scum should leave the dead alone. The pulled off a similar stunt some months with the Hindu Everest climber.

Posted by: ivan at January 3, 2008 9:06 PM

True John C. But, damn if ol' Jim Jones didn't use up the last of the "special" kool-aid.lol

Posted by: Kevin at January 4, 2008 1:25 AM

This is becoming a regular problem in Malaysia (I work there). It is aimed at claiming assets, it also heavily affects the local Indian community as well. I have not heard this happening to the Chinese for quiet a while now.

Posted by: Keith at January 4, 2008 6:12 PM

Keith said, "It (Muslim claims that this or that Buddhist/ Christian/ Hindu, safely dead of course so they can't contradict the claim, was *really* a Muslim) is aimed at claiming assets".

Doesn't that tell you EVERYTHING you need to know about Islam?

It's all about the booty.

Note to all Infidel families in Muslim-majority lands: DO NOT LEAVE YOUR DYING RELATIVES UNATTENDED IN THEIR LAST DAYS if there is the smallest chance that a Muslim may get anywhere near them. If Catholic, Orthodox or Anglican, make sure your dear one receives the Last Rites; if of another faith, make sure that an official rep of that faith performs whatever rites are deemed suitable. Make sure there is someone from your faith present with your loved one at all times until they are declared dead. DO NOT allow any Muslim into the room unless there are non-Muslims present.

Never, if you can possibly avoid it, be alone with a Muslim, for they may pull the same trick on you as the Muslims of Morocco pulled with Sol Hachuel - they may lie outright, declaring you a convert even when you *haven't* recited the Shahada, and their community will believe them; and all your furious denials will, in their eyes, make you an apostate liable for the death penalty, since whatever a Muslim says is the truth and whatever an Infidel or Apostate says is a lie.

Families in Infidel lands with aggressive Muslim minorities - if you have an elderly and ailing wealthy relative, male or female, keep an eye out for any Muslims - a nurse, a doctor, a maid - who may try to ingratiate themselves with your relative. When uncle, auntie, grandma or grandpa dies, a Muslim may pop out of the woodwork waving [very likely forged] papers to 'prove' that your relative converted to Islam and has willed all their property to the local mosque or some 'charitable foundation', and/or that your relative married a Muslim who is now the sole heir.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at January 6, 2008 7:27 PM

Just thought of something.

Any detective story writers out there could have all sorts of fun, both with the scenario as outlined in the original story, and in the scenario that my suspicious mind has come up with, in the final paragraph of my posting above.

How about it? Two juicy old-fashioned detective stories, one set in Malaysia, and one, perhaps, in Britain.

The first would involve the quest for justice of someone like Ngiam Tee Kong.

The second - set in Miss Marple/ Georgette Heyer territory, stately homes, elderly relatives, house parties and large bickering County families - would involve an ageing great-aunt who dies (or was she murdered?) and what happens when a Muslim lawyer representing the local mosque appears claiming that a. great-auntie had converted to Islam just before dying, so must be buried as a Muslim and b. she has left all her property to the mosque.

Come on someone! I waive all copyright on the idea. Have at it. Write the novel. Or write the script.

Educate people about Islamic disrespect for objective truth and disrespect for the private property rights of Unbelievers.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at January 6, 2008 7:44 PM