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Seeking common ground with Christians by urging them to accept the Islamic view of Jesus, sans crucifixion and divinity. In other words, become Muslim, and we'll be standing on common ground -- which is also the thinly veiled message of the celebrated "Common Word" document recently issued by 138 Muslim scholars.
"'Islamic Jesus' hits Iranian movie screens," from AFP (thanks to all who sent this in):
TEHRAN (AFP) — A director who shares the ideas of Iran's hardline president has produced what he says is the first film giving an Islamic view of Jesus Christ, in a bid to show the "common ground" between Muslims and Christians.Nader Talebzadeh sees his movie, "Jesus, the Spirit of God," as an Islamic answer to Western productions like Mel Gibson's 2004 blockbuster "The Passion of the Christ," which he praised as admirable but quite simply "wrong".
"Gibson's film is a very good film. I mean that it is a well-crafted movie but the story is wrong -- it was not like that," he said, referring to two key differences: Islam sees Jesus as a prophet, not the son of God, and does not believe he was crucified.
Talebzadeh said he even went to Gibson's mansion in Malibu, California, to show him his film. "But it was Sunday and the security at the gate received the film and the brochure and promised to deliver it," though the Iranian never heard back.
Even in Iran, "Jesus, The Spirit of God" had a low-key reception, playing to moderate audiences in five Tehran cinemas during the holy month of Ramadan, in October.
The film, funded by state broadcasting, faded off the billboards but is far from dead, about to be recycled in a major 20 episode spin-off to be broadcast over state-run national television this year.
Talebzadeh insists it aims to bridge differences between Christianity and Islam, despite the stark divergence from Christian doctrine about Christ's final hours on earth.
"It is fascinating for Christians to know that Islam gives such devotion to and has so much knowledge about Jesus," Talebzadeh told AFP.
"By making this film I wanted to make a bridge between Christianity and Islam, to open the door for dialogue since there is much common ground between Islam and Christianity," he said.
[...]
But in Talebzadeh's movie, God saves Jesus, depicted as a fair-complexioned man with long hair and a beard, from crucifixion and takes him straight to heaven.
"It is frankly said in the Koran that the person who was crucified was not Jesus" but Judas, one of the 12 Apostles and the one the Bible holds betrayed Jesus to the Romans, he said. In his film, it is Judas who is crucified.
Islam sees Jesus as one of five great prophets -- others being Noah, Moses and Abraham -- sent to earth to announce the coming of Mohammed, the final prophet who spread the religion of Islam. It respects Jesus' followers as "people of the book".
Who are, incidentally, unbelievers, per Qur'an 5:17.
Posted by Robert at January 14, 2008 10:29 AM
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My Arabic is extremely limited (composed mostly of military-useful words), but won't "Spirit of God" translate as "Ruhollah" - which, hardly incidently, was Ayatollah Khomeini's first name?
Posted by: Yossi Gurvitz![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at January 14, 2008 10:42 AM
This is ironic since it was the same Jesus who warned in the Gospels about false prophets in the later times.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 14, 2008 10:44 AM
In which they add The Lost Beatitude:
"Blessed are the suckers, for they shall surely swallow anything."
Posted by: profitsbeard at January 14, 2008 10:55 AM
...Yet the Koran overlooks the fact that there were eye witness accounts of the Crucixfiction of Jesus since it was a very public event. Plus with what the Hebrew prophet Isaiah said in the famous "Suffering Servant" accounts, the Muslim accounts are simply contradictory in nature.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 14, 2008 10:57 AM
Plus with what the Hebrew prophet Isaiah said in the famous "Suffering Servant" accountsPosted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 14, 2008 10:57 AM
at January 14, 2008 11:05 AM
Also is it not the same Koran that says that at the same that Jews and Christians are called "people of the Book", yet it is interchange with the infamous words against the same Jews and Christians, "apes and pigs". How ironic.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 14, 2008 11:07 AM
Oh dear. We'd better watch out. All those extremist Christians are about to go on the rampage and burn down muslim embassies...
at January 14, 2008 11:16 AM
Shy Guy,
It was in reference from Chapter 52:13 through all of Chapter 53 of
Isaiah, which Christians view it as the prophecy of Jesus as the "Suffering Servant". What I had posted is from a Christian perspective in respect to the OT or Hebrew Scriptures.
Thanks anyways for the response.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 14, 2008 11:22 AM
Anyone take this up with the UN? Wouldnt this be considered defaming a religion?
Of course I know the answer but I had to throw that out there.
at January 14, 2008 11:24 AM
Shy Guy,It was in reference from Chapter 52:13 through all of Chapter 53 of
IsaiahPosted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 14, 2008 11:22 AM
at January 14, 2008 11:32 AM
A director who shares the ideas of Iran's hardline president has produced what he says is the first film giving an Islamic view of Jesus Christ, in a bid to show the "common ground" between Muslims and Christians.
Ok . . .now, in return, we should present our own film depicting the Judeo/Christian view of Muhammad in a bid to show the utter lack of common ground between Muslims and, er, well just about everybody else.
Posted by: justamomof4 at January 14, 2008 11:54 AM
Bigcatgirl and Shy Guy,
The difference in interpretation of this passage from Isaiah is the core of the depature of Christianity and Judaism from each other and their common heritage. The two interpretations are irreconcilable.
Therefore, the best policy is for both Jews and Christians to celebrate our common heritage while recognizing and respecting our different traditions. We don't always have to agree but we do have to respect and accept each other.
Posted by: Provoslavni at January 14, 2008 11:58 AM
From above:"But in Talebzadeh's movie, God saves Jesus, depicted as a fair-complexioned man with long hair and a beard, from crucifixion and takes him straight to heaven."
Allah is the Great Deceiver of Christians. What a god!
I wonder why it's okay to depict Jesus and not Mohammed. I thought all 'prophets' were supposed to be equally revered.
Posted by: Silvester at January 14, 2008 11:59 AM
This movie, especially the photo above, shows a key difference between Shia and Sunni Islam. No Sunni actor would ever portray any Muslim "prophet" including "Issa". So I wonder if the Sunnis will riot against the Iranians for making this movie?
Actually, this shows exactly how different Islam is from Christianity. Imagine the riots if a Christian made a movie showing our view of Muhammed as a false prophet. Just imagine how many riots and murders would offended Muslims would carry out. Yet this blasphemous portrayal of Christ will be accepted without violence. Instead, Christians will pray for the people involved hoping they will come to the Truth. So which is a true religion of peace?
Posted by: Provoslavni at January 14, 2008 12:05 PM
Perhaps the readers would like to see an authentic story of Jesus...available in many languages from Aari to Zulu...on streaming video.
http://www.jesusfilm.org/languages/index.html
Posted by: eve_anne_gelical at January 14, 2008 12:12 PM
It is fascinating for Christians to know that Islam gives such devotion to and has so much knowledge about Jesus.This is such a fraud. Islam gives "devotion" to Jesus only as a means of delegitimizing Christianity and expropriating its religious figures. Posted by: aynrandgirl
at January 14, 2008 12:18 PM
for a thorough look at the subject, Jesus vs issa, see
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Authors/JR/Future/index.htm
at January 14, 2008 12:38 PM
So one asked the question: Why is Jesus considered a great prophet even by Muslims when there own self proclaimed prophet Mohammed said of Jesus, that his Disciples and followers had corrupted his teachings and his sermons? Of course Mohammed had to do this to give his new religion credibility.
There remain significant differences between Jesus and Mohammed.
Muhammad was a sinner. In Suras 40:55 and 48:1-2, Allah tells Muhammad to ask for forgiveness for his sins Certain sins of his are mentioned in Bukhari 1:234 and 8:794-796, which include cutting off people's limbs, burning out their eyes, and making them die of thirst. Other mention of his sins are found in Bukhari 1:19, 711, 781, 3:582, 4:319, 7:1, 8:319.
Jesus, on the other hand was without sin (Acts 10:38, 1 Peter 1:19, 2:21-24, 1 John 2:1, 3:5). Even his enemies, those who betrayed and crucified him, acknowledged his perfect life (Matthew 27:3-4, Luke 23:14-15). And this is also confirmed in Islamic teachings (Bukhari 4:506).
Modern Islam is generally considered to be free of racism. However Muhammad himself owned slaves, including a black slave named Anjasha (Bukhari 3:711, 6:435, 8:182, 8:221, 9:368, etc.). The only place where slavery is practiced today is in Islamic countries.
Slavery was a common practice in the ancient world. Indeed, the Bible seems to acknowledge it as common practice. But Christianity teaches that all people are created equal (Genesis 1:27, Galatians 3:28). And the Bible specifically condemns the slave trade (1 Timothy 1:9-11).
Consider Jesus, the sinless prophet. In contrast to Muhammad,
Jesus :
was never forgiven because he had no sin,
killed no travelers in cold blood,
never told us to kill anybody,
was not prejudiced against classes of people,
did not own slaves,
did not succumb to the devil and was not bewitched (Matthew 4, Luke 4)
had high moral standards (never said forcible sex was OK),
promised to pay the penalty for your sins,
suffered and died for you and me,
Was called the prince of peace.
Muhammad by his own admission was merely a mortal man (Sura 18:110),
and never performed a single miracle (Suras 3:183-184, 17:90-95, Bukhari 6:504, 9:379).
The Quran itself acknowledges that Muhammad's opponents challenged him with, "Why is not an angel sent down to him?" to settle the matter of his prophethood (Sura 6:8-9). But Muhammad could not deliver.
Yet Jesus performed numerous miracles before many witnesses (Mark 7:37, John 10:38, et. al.) Jesus' miracles are even confirmed in the Quran (Sura 5:110-113).
Muhammad said of himself that he could do nothing for you (Sura 11:31), but only Jesus can forgive your sins (1 John 2:1-2).
In addition to being powerful, Muhammad was wealthy (Bukhari 3:495), which brings into question his true motive. But Jesus was a lowly itinerant rabbi whose motive is not in question. Jesus' status is important because he could relate to the common person of any time:
Jesus' influence came not from wealth or political power, but from his words and actions that challenged people's very concept of truth (Mark 1:27, John 18:38). He said,
Let's consider further the subject of prophecies. One thing that has convinced many of the true identity of Jesus is the evidence from fulfilled prophecies. Jesus fulfilled over 200 prophecies and implications, many made hundreds of years before his birth. While some of the prophecies are subtle, many are precise— including his place of birth, and the details of his life and death. l. Jesus even predicted his own death and resurrection (Matthew 16:21, Acts 10:40, etc.)!
at January 14, 2008 12:51 PM
Shy Guy,
You are right that earlier chapters of Isaiah speak of Israel as a servant. However, Ch 52 v 14 clearly distinguishes between Israel (My people) and the Suffering Servant:
14. "Just as many were astonished at you, ***my people***, So ***His*** appearance was marred more than any man, and His form more than the sons of men."
Its clear from this and other verses in Chapters 52 and 53 that Isaiah is talking about a specific individual and that individual is distinct from collective Israel. i.e. vs 14 is saying that in the same way that many people were astonised at Israel, so also they were astonished at the appearance of the Suffering Servant. So there is a distinction being made between Israel and the Suffering Servant.
I posted this just because you took a kind of "hand waving" attitude by simply posting links to a website that lists verse numbers, and you did not personally deal with the scriptures themselves.
I posted this simply so you could understand why Christians interpret the scriptures as we do. However, given the centuries of disagreements, I dont expect any Jewish person to automatically agree with my opinions. (which is why I didnt just list verse numbers, as your link does)
However, I would expect anyone who wants to know the truth, to look carefully at what the scripture is saying (as I did before becoming a Christian).
I agree with Provoslavni, above, that "the best policy is for both Jews and Christians to celebrate our common heritage while recognizing and respecting our different traditions."
By the way, in David Ariel's "What Do Jews Believe"(p 256), he mentions that in the Mishnah and Talmud, some rabbis posit the idea that there are actually two messianic figures... one "Messiah son of Joseph (ben Yosef), follows the arrival of Elijah but he himself dies before the messianic era begins. The second, Messiah son of David, is the figure who concludes the process, restores the Davidic throne, and ushers in the end of days."
Christians view John the Baptist as a type of Elijah, and these two concepts of Messiah represent the first and second coming of Jesus. The resurection (which was a concept accepted by first century Jews) is the important piece that connects the two Messianic figures.
I don't expect Jews to view this the same way, but it demonstrates Christian thinking isn't so far from that of (at least) some Jews.
at January 14, 2008 12:54 PM
Welcome to the First Episcoslamic Churmsque of Interfaithing Kumbayism. We will be serving tea and flax seed cookies in the narthex after the Traditional Service and just before the Contemporary Service, and the Sunday Madrassah begins at 9 a.m.
Our Shahid school teacher, Miss Sharmuta Greipenweiner, will be teaching the children from the new Interfaithing Hymnal, page 323 "Give Me Nails in My Bomb" (formerly known as "Give me Oil in my Lamp") and page 666 "Allah Hates You" (formerly "Jesus Loves you") and page 911: "I'll be a Martyr for Mahdi" (formerly, "I'll be a Sunbeam for Jesus"). Also, due to the new, more accommodating multicultural layout, women will worship in a separate sanctuary, located in the basement storage room. Women, kindly use the rear basement entrance, and don't for get: Hijabs can be found in the wardrobe formerly used by the choir.
at January 14, 2008 1:11 PM
Shy Guy,You are right that earlier chapters of Isaiah speak of Israel as a servant. However, Ch 52 v 14 clearly distinguishes between Israel (My people) and the Suffering Servant:
14. "Just as many were astonished at you, ***my people***, So ***His*** appearance was marred more than any man, and His form more than the sons of men."
Posted by: StephenDvd at January 14, 2008 12:54 PM
"כַּאֲשֶׁר שָׁמְמוּ עָלֶיךָ רַבִּים, כֵּן-מִשְׁחַת מֵאִישׁ מַרְאֵהוּ; וְתֹאֲרוֹ, מִבְּנֵי אָדָם"
The simple translation of the Hebrew is:
"As many wondered about you, "How marred his appearance is from that of a man, and his features from that of people!""
There are no words "my people" anywhere in the verse. It would also pay to look at the original punctuation in the verse (not available at the link above).
And all one has to do is simply step back a few verses, like to V6 and onward and see that the subject in context is the Nation of Israel and nothing else.
And indeed here we are! :)
Early Christian scholars flunked Hebrew 101 real bad. I'll bet later Jesuit scholars caught on and just plain shut up.
Do you really want to go on?
Posted by: Shy Guy at January 14, 2008 1:20 PM
Good thing this movie was made-for too long we've all been misunderstanding Jesus. We really needed some clarification from people who view Mo as the perfect man worthy of emulation.
Now it's time an infidel enlightens the Koranists with a movie about Mr. Pefect.
Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at January 14, 2008 1:26 PM
“Common ground” What is that?? What is common between Christianity and Islam?
Between truth and falsehood?
Between faith and blasphemy?
Between light and darkness?
Between Heaven & Hell?
Absolutely nothing – Islam is ALL of the later!
Eph 6:12: For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Islam is all of those and more!
at January 14, 2008 1:46 PM
Right, so by their logic, if Christians make a movie depicting Muhammed as a false prophet, then that would be building bridges between the two religions, as we could then both share the same understanding of the nature of Muhammed, and we would see how much the two religions have in common.
I'll get to work on the screenplay.
Posted by: Boston Tea Party
at January 14, 2008 1:51 PM
I think it was last year that a 1000 year old psalms book was found in an Irish bog. Google psalms book irish bog, and you will find the story. It was frozen open in all that time to Pslams 83. See what that miracle book said.
Posted by: maunalio at January 14, 2008 2:12 PM
Why don't our Iranian friends just hire the modernist wing of most of the major Western churches, who have been saying the same thing since Loisy if not earlier? These people are ripe for conversion to Islam: modernist clerics don't believe in the Resurrection or the divinity of Jesus anyway.
(PS: did you notice that the Iranian Jesus does not even look like a Mediterranean from Galilee, but is rather the caricature of the fair-haired, fair-skinned, bearded teacher created by Americans and northern Europeans more or less in their own image? What this says to me is that they are not dealing with history in any way, but trying to manipulate Western iconology.)
Posted by: Paolo at January 14, 2008 2:14 PM
I can't get over the bad dye job. Eek!
Posted by: Lori B. at January 14, 2008 2:15 PM
"Ralph, Jesus did not have wheels." - Sunday school on The Simpsons
In that same vein:
Nader Talebzadeh, Jesus did not wear eye makeup, to say nothing of the dye job.
Posted by: MarisolJW at January 14, 2008 2:32 PM
Most thinking people with IQs over 60 would prefer to eat glass than to "accept Islam."
I would invite the Islamic world to get a life (preferably on another planet... like Mars).
Posted by: pythagoras at January 14, 2008 2:37 PM
Provoslavni,
"The difference in interpretation of this passage from Isaiah is the core of the depature of Christianity and Judaism from each other and their common heritage. The two interpretations are irreconcilable.
Therefore, the best policy is for both Jews and Christians to celebrate our common heritage while recognizing and respecting our different traditions. We don't always have to agree but we do have to respect and accept each other."
...And that is the beauty of discussion via posting. At least here different views are presented without flaming. You do not need agree but at least there is respect and understanding.
Plus finding information that one did not know was there.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 14, 2008 2:55 PM
MarisolJW,
Plus the picture of Jesus in the above picture looks fake.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 14, 2008 2:58 PM
Pythagoras:
“Most thinking people with IQs over 60 would prefer to eat glass than to "accept Islam."
My, what a novel way of putting it! Should we envision any ‘glass’ shortages any time soon?
at January 14, 2008 2:58 PM
According to Islam not only is it wrong to draw, paint, or portray Mohammud, it is equally the same of Jesus (according to Islam to be the other lesser prophet).
So, if someone was portrayed to be Jesus didn't all those involved violate Islamic law?
It would be the same as the Mohammud cartoons.
Posted by: alaskan1000 at January 14, 2008 3:06 PM
Now watch for the Christians to burn down embassies, kill unbelievers and run amok because Jesus has been blasphemed!
* Muslims believe Jesus will return, abolish the jiziyah, smash the crosses and kill the pigs. After that, the Islamic utopia is complete.
The pigs, that’s us. Just in case you’re wondering.
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at January 14, 2008 3:13 PM
" 'It is frankly said in the Koran that the person who was crucified was not Jesus' but Judas..."
WHERE in the Qur'an does it say that Judas was the one who was crucified???
Give me a break!
Cheers
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at January 14, 2008 3:18 PM
WHERE in the Qur'an does it say that Judas was the one who was crucified???Doctor Bulldog
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at January 14, 2008 3:18 PM
at January 14, 2008 3:29 PM
Something wrong with my prior link. Look here.
Posted by: Shy Guy at January 14, 2008 3:31 PM
Balderdash crap.
Posted by: darcy at January 14, 2008 3:35 PM
The only ones who will fall for this are our 'scholars', and that UK bishop who, etc. Others of us will know that this is more muslim crud.
Posted by: R_not at January 14, 2008 3:36 PM
Shy Guy
How do Jews view Isaiah chapter 53, we Christians see it as speaking of only Jesus, this could very well be why we also view 52:14 as speaking of Him.
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by: BurgerBoy at January 14, 2008 3:48 PM
"Allah is the Best of Deceivers." Jesus of Nazareth is an historical personage. Issa of the Qur'an is an ahistorical fiction. The mother of the Islamic Jesus is Mary--Maryam, the Miriam of our Old Testament (Tanakh, if you will), who is the sister of Moses and Aaron! Eighteen Centuries between Moses and Jesus are juxtaposed! That, and a host of other anachronisms and revisions--RIDICULOUS!!
Posted by: John C at January 14, 2008 3:55 PM
Shy GuyHow do Jews view Isaiah chapter 53, we Christians see it as speaking of only Jesus, this could very well be why we also view 52:14 as speaking of Him.
Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by: BurgerBoy at January 14, 2008 3:48 PM
You have to understand that the whole concept of a physical deity is elementary idolatry in Judaism, forbidden by the 10 commandments themselves. Had you approached any minimally learned and observant Jew from the time of the Exodus up to the times of Jesus and told them what you believe in, they would say that's fine and dandy but it has nothing to do with anything mentioned or advocated by the Torah and the prophets. Not Isaiah, not Ezekiel, not Daniel, not King David, not Moses, would ever have anything to do with such a foreign belief other than to abhor it for the pagan idolatry which it is.
Remember, the truth will set you free. ;)
Posted by: Shy Guy at January 14, 2008 4:04 PM
Shy Guy,
Thanks for the link.
Uhm, that's odd... My copy of the Qur'an doesn't go up to chapter 158... I mean, sure, maybe I'm a little rusty on my Roman numerals (my copy of the Qur'an uses them for the chapters), but I'm pretty sure that there is no chapter CLVIII... Mine ends at CXIV, which I seem to recall is 114... :)
I think he meant to say, chapter 4, verse 158.
Which states:
"Nay, God [Allah] raised him up Unto Himself; and God [Allah] is Exalted in Power, Wise;---"
(from my copy of the Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation)
Now, I even checked the footnotes for verse 157 and 158 and, there is no mention of Judas...
From what I see in the Qur'an, Judas is not named as the substitute for Christ.
Perhaps the Jalaluddin al-Suyuti's (born 1445) who is mentioned in the link you provided is the culprit for this interpretation...
Am I missing something???
Cheers
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at January 14, 2008 4:16 PM
Doc, you asked where it is. I googled and found what appeared to be a source claimed by Muslims.
I'm just the messenger. I'm not advocating anything about those historic circumstances.
Posted by: Shy Guy at January 14, 2008 4:18 PM
Shy Guy,
Alright... Thanks for looking into it. I really appreciate it.
So, unless someone else sees something I've missed, I think I can safely say that the director, Nader Talebzadeh, is full of camel manure, as the Qur'an DOES NOT state that Judas was substituted for Christ on the cross...
Cheers,
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at January 14, 2008 4:36 PM
Right, so by their logic, if Christians make a movie depicting Muhammed as a false prophet, then that would be building bridges between the two religions, as we could then both share the same understanding of the nature of Muhammed, and we would see how much the two religions have in common.
I'll get to work on the screenplay.
Posted by: Boston Tea Party
A lot of work has gone into one such screenplay:
"The Curse of the Meteor"
http://historyofjihad.org/movie_script_jihad_against_arabs.html
Have a look. It's fantastic. Who can produce and distribute this?
Posted by: WestwardHo at January 14, 2008 4:49 PM
Assalamau Laikum all,
Can you peoples see how Jesus PBUh is seen by the world?....I mean how can a man be even ALLOWED to act the part of Jesus the prophet.
Can you EVER see the day when a mere 21st centuary mortal can act the part of Allah's prophet Muhd SAW....NO!
You peoples have reduced the respect that Jesus PBUh had by films like "life of Brian".
You have reduced things for yourself.
Posted by: Naseem at January 14, 2008 4:50 PM
... the Islamic view of Jesus, sans crucifixion and divinity
And naturally sans forgiveness and compassion. Christians have been told a pack of lies about Jesus. At least, that is, according to the Ayatollah Khomeini:
"They claim Jesus recommended turning the other cheek. But he would never make such an error for that is the logic of the apathetic! Jesus was a great prophet. He began his struggle in the cradle when he said: I shall rise up to establish prayer and worship. He was a prophet while still in the cradle. Is it possible that such a person could utter such apathetic, cowardly words? This recommendation to turn the other cheek was invented by those who claimed some affiliation to Jesus (we cannot call them Christians). They deceived the Christians and made them completely passive towards their governments."
Khomeini Speech 27
"Jesus, this great prophet of God, would never teach someone to turn the other cheek were he to be struck by an oppressor! Indeed, these are the words of Satan and not Jesus. Jesus, the great prophet, is a true human being in every sense of the word. It is these akhunds who claim to follow in his path, these priests who have invented such words. And even then don't be mistaken in thinking that they actually practise what they preach, for indeed they do not. Instead they tell their fellow-believers to practise it! This is surely not what Jesus taught."
Khomeini Speech 35
at January 14, 2008 5:05 PM
Can you EVER see the day when a mere 21st centuary mortal can act the part of Allah's prophet Muhd SAW....NO!Posted by: Naseem at January 14, 2008 4:50 PM
at January 14, 2008 5:07 PM
Naseem,
Why sweat it?
"Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the LORD..."
So, I'll just sit back and let God be the judge as to what is blaspheme and what is not...
Posted by: Doctor Bulldog at January 14, 2008 5:13 PM
Would a film biography of the Prophet (Pbuh) carry a "R" rating or an "X"?
I'm thinking the amount of violence would be too excessive.
Posted by: tanstaafl at January 14, 2008 6:33 PM
After reconsidering the photo from the film, I thought Jesus was a carpenter, not a really bad hairdresser.
Posted by: tanstaafl at January 14, 2008 6:35 PM
Issa have a perdy mouf.
Posted by: Jauhara Al-Kafirah at January 14, 2008 6:57 PM
See Mark 8. Those who remove the cross from Jesus ministry are Satan.
The Islamic Jesus is just rhetoric to enslave uneducated Christians. Christians from the very beginning considered Jesus divine due to his bodily resurrections from the dead. There is no evidence that Muslims teach, that this was a later addition to the life of Jesus. Islamic teaching about Jesus, from a scholarly point of view, is a joke.
See The Resurrection of the Son of God by N.T. Wright for solid scholarship on this topic.
http://www.amazon.com/Resurrection-Son-Christian-Origins-Question/dp/0800626796
Posted by: James Martel at January 14, 2008 7:26 PM
Islam's approach, to both Jews AND Christians, is the Big Lie.
Islam strikes at the heart of Judaism, by denying that Abraham offered Isaac on Mt Moriah, and instead claiming that ISHMAEL, whom Muslim Arabs claim as their ancestor, was the one offered.
In an exactly parallel move, Islam strikes at the heart of Christian faith by denying that Jesus/ Yeshua was crucified.
In both cases Islam has no corroborating evidence whatsoever for its assertions.
The people of Israel affirmed the story of the Binding of Isaac, for over a millennium prior to the time of Mohammed. So far as I know, no alternative version featuring Ishmael is recorded in either art or literature anywhere during that period. Christians accept the Hebrew Scripture account of the Binding of Isaac and agree with the Jews that when Muslims say 'Ibrahim' offered 'Ismail', the Muslims are, to be perfectly blunt, LYING.
The fact that a Jewish man called Yeshua/Jesus was "crucified under Pontius Pilate" was affirmed not only by Christian but by non-Christian sources, for six hundred years before Mohammed. Jews and Christians differ - vehemently, furiously, often with considerable acrimony - about the nature and significance of his person, works and teachings, but do not, I think, disagree over one simple historic fact: that the Roman government of the time executed him. The records of what all mainstream Christian groups affirmed, from 33 AD to the7th century - and this includes hostile external accounts of Christianity - agree that Christians say - 'He was crucified under Pontius Pilate'.
For another example of Islam's total rejection of both Judaism and Christianity - and its blank literal-mindedness and/ or wilful ignorance of the core teachings of those faiths - see also Surah 5:17, which seems to think it is arming Muslims with a crushing refutation of the Jews and the Christians:
"The Jews and Christians say: 'We are the children of allah and his loved ones.' Say: 'Why then does he punish you for your sins? Surely you are mortals of his own creation'.
Note that the Quran hasn't got a CLUE about the Biblical teaching - very clearly presented in both Hebrew and Christian scriptures - that YHWH disciplines and corrects those whom He loves; Islam also simply does not comprehend the Biblical doctrine of the suffering servant, of the innocent one who suffers, whether that servant be understood as all Israel, OR as Yeshua/ Jesus.
Note also that the other 'argument' proposed to refute Jews and Christians - that we can't call ourselves 'beloved children' of God because we are mortals, creatures - is a complete non sequitur. It involves the Quran's absolute refusal to understand, or inability to understand, the analogical or metaphorical meaning of the term 'children of God' as used by Jewish and Christian believers about themselves.
The average observant Jew or Christian, presented with the sneering 'arguments' of Surah 5:17 - 'your sufferings prove that God doesn't love you!' 'you can't call yourselves "children of God" because you're human!' - is likely to respond merely with astonishment at the manifest stupidity of the sneerer.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at January 14, 2008 7:50 PM
Is it just me or does that guy look mean? The "real men" of islam can not see a prophet with a humble or compassionate expression. Has to be mean, in full accordance with khomeini's speech.
Again-once you know islam, there are no surprises.
at January 14, 2008 8:43 PM
In light of this latest revolting propaganda effort by the Muslims, it would be an excellent idea for Christians in particular to obtain, and read, Dr Mark Durie's excellent little book "Revelation? Do Muslims and Christians Worship the Same God? Jesus, God and Holy Spirit in Christianity and Islam".
Dr Durie's book provides a brief, scholarly but easily readable, crystal-clear summary of the bottomless gulf between what Muslim texts teach, and what the Bible (as used by Christians) teaches about the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, about Jesus, and about the Holy Spirit.
Although intended mainly for ordinary pew-sitting Christians who find themselves encountering the various Muslim claims about 'Abrahamic religion', 'we worship the same god', 'we respect Moses and Jesus', etc., Dr Durie's book can be of use also to non-Christian non-Muslims who overhear those claims being made and may be deceived into thinking that Christians have something in common with Muslims...when we do not.
Bat Yeor - who is Jewish - gave it a rave review.
at January 14, 2008 8:43 PM
A further comment:
is it just me, or am I really seeing, at present, a visible spike in the effort by Muslims to seduce Christians? And does it not, perhaps, have a certain, barely concealed, note of desperation? I do know that inside Iran itself there is a large - and growing - underground church comprised of apostates from Islam, while Persians outside Iran are - in many places - converting to Christianity; just as there is, elsewhere, a Kurdish-speaking, a Turkish-speaking, and a Berber-speaking church, similarly composed of apostates.
In any case - Muslims, as always, are going for a perceived focus of power - 'Christians' compose about 32.5 % of the world's population. Muslims are going to try to seduce Christians into siding with them (the Muslims) against 'the rest'.
Islam perpetually seeks to 'divide the camp' of the Infidels, by making temporary (and illusory) common cause with this or that portion of that camp, against the others.
In the area of 'religion', this is how it proceeds.
It whispers to the theists - 'WE believe in a god, not like all those dirty secularists/ atheists over there'.
It whispers to Christians and Jews - 'we believe in the God of Abraham ..not like those nasty animists/ pagans/ Buddhists/ Hindus over there' (this ploy has been, tragically, quite successful in duping some Christians in places like India).
It whispers to Christians - 'WE honour Jesus and Mary...not like those nasty Jews over there who deny that Jesus was a prophet'.
While at the very same time it says to the Jews, "WE worship a God who is One, like you do, and not like those horrid Christians who worship THREE GODS and blaspheme by worshipping a mere man'.
The challenge is for all of us to recognise that to side with Muslims - as they invite us to do - against any other Infidels, is to seal our own destruction.
By the way, on the level of world politics, not religion, I am certain that Muslim negotiators in their dealings with China will be encouraging China's suspicion of both Russia and 'the West'; and that in their dealings with Russia they will be playing on, and trying to heighten, Russia's fears of both 'the West' and China. The natural mode of Islam is to tell lies, in order to make its 'enemies' distrust and hate each other. That is abundantly plain from all of its past history.
A postscript - we Christians got our 'call' from Islam, from those 138 'scholars', many of them suspect in light of what they are known to have taught and said in the past (two at least are recorded as calling for Israel's destruction, in highly antisemitic terms). I read somewhere that there was going to be a similar 'call' to the leaders of world Jewry.
If and when such a thing is issued, it should be posted here forthwith, side-by-side with the 'letter to the Christians', so we can all see what kind of swifty Islam tries to pull on the Jews, as compared to the lies, doublespeak and obfuscations attempted with the Christians.
at January 14, 2008 8:59 PM
pagan idolatry which it is. Posted by: Shy Guy
Thanks for the laugh...
Posted by: BurgerBoy at January 14, 2008 10:16 PM
I see that these Iranian lapdogs of arabs are not only intent on stealing jesus from the christians and turning him into a quasi muhammed like prophet but they are also changing him from a jew into one that looks european. I doubt if knowledgable christians will buy this.
Posted by: desidude at January 14, 2008 11:35 PM
23At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time.
26"So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
Posted by: interestinconundrum at January 14, 2008 11:48 PM
agan idolatry which it is. Posted by: Shy GuyThanks for the laugh...Posted by: BurgerBoy at January 14, 2008 10:16 PM
Christianity itself has been perceived at times as a form of paganism by followers of the other Abrahamic religions because of, for example, the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, the celebration of pagan feast days, and other practices – through a process described as "baptising" or "christianization". Even between Christians there have been similar charges of paganism levelled, especially by Protestants, towards the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches for their veneration of the saints and images.
at January 14, 2008 11:58 PM
On this topic of 'paganism' in the argument between the Jews, the Christians, and the Muslims:
I recommend, first of all, Spengler's essay "Christian, Muslim, Jew: Franz Rosenzweig and the Abrahamic Religions", in First Things, October 2007.
There it is argued that Rosenzweig saw ISLAM as 'a throwback to paganism'.
Spengler writes:
"At first glance, Rosenzweig’s characterization of Islam as pagan appears strange, for we habitually classify religions according to their outward forms and identify paganism with manifestations of polytheism or nature worship. Insisting on the uniqueness of Allah and suppressing outward expressions of idolatry, Islam appears the opposite of a pagan religion.
"Rosenzweig, however, requires us to see faith from the existential standpoint of the believer, who in revealed religion knows God through God’s love. For Rosenzweig, paganism constitutes a form of alienation from the revealed God of Love; Allah, the absolutely transcendent God who offers mercy but not unconditional love, is therefore a pagan deity."
There are similar insights in a different book, 'Islam et Judeo-Christianisme': the introduction by Alain Besancon, and then the discussion of Islam in an essay by Jacques Ellul, "Les trois piliers du conformisme" (three pillars of conformity).
Ellul's thinking about the meaning of Israel and Judaism, and probably also, his thinking about Islam, was deeply influenced by Rosenzweig's "Star of Redemption" - although Ellul, paradoxically, precisely because of the insights he found in Rosenzweig, chose to affirm the concrete reality of the Jewish people in their state, in 'Un Chretien Pour Israel', rather than to deplore Zionism, as Rosenzweig apparently had done!
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at January 15, 2008 12:50 AM
Shy Guy
Surely you can do better than Fake-ipedia, but then perhaps not.
Posted by: BurgerBoy at January 15, 2008 2:15 AM
Shy GuySurely you can do better than Fake-ipedia, but then perhaps not.
Posted by: BurgerBoy at January 15, 2008 2:15 AM
Read the text I quoted. Nothing exciting or extraordinary at all. If Wikipedia tells me that 2+2=4, I will nod my head in agreement.
Posted by: Shy Guy at January 15, 2008 2:39 AM
"Abrahamic"? Nobody used that term until Muslims started using it. That tells me it's yet another fraud by which Muslims intend to seduce Christians and Jews into reverting by claiming false equivalence between Islam and others.
Posted by: aynrandgirl at January 15, 2008 2:40 AM
dumbledoresarmy,
that's an excellent post above!
Yes indeed, they know how to divide and to deceive, while we're singing 'kumbayahh''- on the way to she showers, and the orchestra plays beautifully...
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at January 15, 2008 5:56 AM
...In Islam, you offer Islam just before you attack and kill those who refuse.....
Posted by: exsgtbrown at January 15, 2008 6:42 AM
Islam is the barbaric cult that derides Jews and Christians as Pigs and Apes.
Yet here we have a film made by Islamic radicals - claiming to "love" the Jew that brought Christianity to the world!!!.
Say what???.
Posted by: U.K. TODAY. at January 15, 2008 6:59 AM
dumbledoresarmy,
What you said in your comments is not suprising because they, the Muslims take their cue from the "father of lies" himself, the enemy, satan.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 15, 2008 9:26 AM
Oh my word, what is with the half bleached hair? Yuck.
I do like our picture of mohammad with the turbon bomb on much better. It says it all.
I won't be converting.
Posted by: herself at January 15, 2008 1:04 PM
Not to be catty, but that Islamic Jesus really needs to change his hairdresser.
"Damn that silly b***h! I asked for UNIFORM LIGHT BROWN, not black with platimum blond streaks!!! And spiral curls are SO last year!!!"
Posted by: angloirishslav at January 16, 2008 12:35 AM
Would a film biography of the Prophet (Pbuh) carry a "R" rating or an "X"?
I'm thinking the amount of violence would be too excessive.
Posted by: tanstaafl at January 14, 2008 6:33 PM
The sex scenes would definitely make a biography of the demonic prophet an X rated bomb if the graphic violence didn't. I don't know how the savage beast found the time for pillaging, organizing mass beheadings and rapes, or any of his other brutal, demonic escapades considering his obsession with acquiring new and enticing brides to add to his collection. He was the ultimate, insatiable sex fiend with a penchant for pre-adolescent girls, a real sicko.
Yeah, a biography of the "prophet" would be a pornographic horror show for sure, with something for every pervert. A perusal of the hadiths is like reading ancient Playboy magazines without the pictures, really kinky!
I wonder if the self-appointed "prophet" of islam ever dreamed that his sick perversions and self-serving proclamations (most of which were made to advance his own sexual exploitations and personal comfort and wealth)would live on for centuries, perpetuated by selfish, cruel, misogynic males in order to maintain the domination of women and their delusions of superiority. Islam is so utterly crude, ugly, and unbelievable---the antithesis of Judaism and Christianity. It is the ultimate insult to suggest that something as vile and contradictory as islam could possibly supersede them.
Posted by: Susanp at January 16, 2008 1:08 AM
If the Christians can't convince me to convert, the freakn muzzies ain't got a chance.
Posted by: tsarbomba29 at January 16, 2008 6:29 PM
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