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Iran is planning on submerging the tomb of King Cyrus (Coresh), the Persian King known for authorizing the Jewish exiles to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the Holy Temple….The Iranian ayatollahs are planning on destroying the tomb as part of a general campaign to sever the Persian people from their non-Islamic heritage; Cyrus was thought to be a Zoroastrian and was one of the first rulers to enforce a policy of religious tolerance on his huge kingdom. Journalist Ran Porat quoted a young Iranian who said that the measures being taken by the Islamic Republic’s regime include the destruction of archaeological sites significant to this heritage. -- from this article
This is merely Islam as Islam has always been: at best indifferent to, at worst actively hostile to, all that is pre-Islamic or non-Islamic in the history or traditions or civilizations of lands now dominated by Islam and ruled by Muslims. And this indifference, or this hostility, is shown in the deliberate destruction of monuments and religious sites.
It is all one vast Jahiliyya, or Time of Ignorance. Over 1350 years, despite the so-called status as "Protected peoples," the Christians and Jews endured, in the Middle East and North Africa, the destruction of churches (where was Tertullian from? And where St. Augustine?) and synagogues. In India, tens of thousands of Hindu temples and temple complexes were the main victims of Islamic destruction, though Jain temples, and Buddhist temples and stupas, were also destroyed. In the East Indies, which was once Hindu and Buddhist, how many of those Hindu and Buddhist structures have survived?
In Afghanistan, the Greco-Bactrian civilization was reduced to rubble. Statutes of Buddhas, and stupas, and libraries of ancient Buddhist texts, were destroyed everywhere in Central Asia.
But that was then, you say. That was at a time when this was standard behavior by primitive peoples. But was that really true? Did the Hindus destroy Buddhist texts? Did the Buddhists destroy the monuments of others? Did the Jews ever destroy the monuments of others?
And what about now? What do we see now? In Afghanistan, the Bamiyan Buddhas -- so large and seemingly so impervious to attack -- were finally destroyed, not because of a new "extremist" doctrine, but because Saudi and Pakistani technical help was available to the Taliban so that those statues might be blown up. In Kuala Lumpur, venerable Hindu temples are brought down by government decree. In Israel, the "Palestinians' reduced to rubble Jacob's Tomb and have attacked other sites. They have destroyed as much as they can, or thrown out, into vast rubbish heaps, tons of material found to include ancient Jewish artifacts from the time of the Temple. They have filled with their own rubble the place known as Solomon's Stables, and in their attempt to efface any Jewish connection. They have been working like old moles, burrowing into the Temple Mount and, in their hysterical and a-historical hate, they have endangered the very foundations of the Dome of the Rock, the Mosque of Omar -- and are apparently prepared to blame "the Jews" should anything happen.
Sita Ram Goel filled up two full volumes merely listing, laconically, the Hindu temples and temple complexes that were destroyed by Muslim conquerors and invaders. One could do the same for Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, and Zoroastrian sites.
And one could even do the same, in a sense, to Muslim historical sites that have been destroyed by adherents of the "pure" Islam of the Wahhabis. The Saudi architect Algosaibi has deplored the way that the Al-Saud, buying off the Wahhabi clerics (in order to keep stealing much of the national wealth), have -- presumably in their role as "Guardians of the Two Noble Places" (Mecca and Medina) -- reduced to rubble what was said to be the house of Muhammad in Medina. They have in Mecca torn down almost every old building, and just a few years ago managed to finish the job by destroying an old Ottoman fort. In the place of these things they have put up an arab-muslim version of high-rises, making Mecca more akin to Dubai -- as Dubai, of course, is itself merely, in its thrust and lack of architectural charm, merely a more expensive Las Vegas.
Posted by Hugh at January 16, 2008 3:05 PM
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What have Arabs done to the pre-islamic archaeology of Egypt? Where these artifacts saved by being buried for so long?
How about the pre-islamic Babylonian archaeology in present-day Iraq? I have wondered what damage the bombing by coalition forces may have done to these sites. Of course, the US and UK forces avoid damaging mosques at all cost. The same cannot be said for Al Qaeda.
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at January 16, 2008 3:25 PM
Um, so when is the Iranian goverment going to end the occupation of Persian lands? Obviously they don't belong to them, just like Palestine is occupied by Israel!
Posted by: V.I.N.C.E.N.T. at January 16, 2008 3:32 PM
Here in America, the Islamists are busy undermining jahiliyya within our culture, educational system, and school texts.
Posted by: John C at January 16, 2008 4:29 PM
Islam: destroying civilization the old fashion way, erasing history one achievement at a time.
Islam lives in, indeed revels in, a perpetual Time of Ignorance.
at January 16, 2008 4:29 PM
The assassination of History is paramount in establishing Islam as all encompassing.
Like a parasitic wasp, it selects and ingests those aspects of the culture it has destroyed, and metamorphoses them into Islamic Butterflies to show the world the beauty of Islam.
Because Islam must be the sole originator of the world's wisdom .
The monotheist peoples of the book being unfortunate in that they were born before the coming of the prophet had the possibility of enlightening them to Islam.
Had they been subjected to his wisdom, they would have converted to Islam and therefore must even now be given the chamce to do so.
at January 16, 2008 4:30 PM
As the Moslems destroy the landmarks of the true history to create a fake history, so do the professors destroy the facts of the true history to create the same fake history, from the textual perspective.
Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 16, 2008 4:39 PM
The Egyptians were in different to the tombs. They robbed graves. The Turkish soldiers (remember the Mamelukes?) shot at the Sphinx, destroying her face -- don't believe the later stories that it was the "French soldiers under Napoleon" who did it, because there are accounts of that destruction that pre-date the arrival of those soldiers. Nowadays, there are those Egyptians who realize that the Pyramids means tourists, and tourists means money, and so they are willing to endure the pyramids -- though there are also more fanatical Muslims who wish them to be destroyed.
As for the pre-Islamic monuments, evoked by such names as Babylon, Assyria, Ur, Chaldea -- they were ignored by the local Arabs and Muslims. The discovery, retrieval, collecting, and catalogiing of the artifacts of the ancient Near East has been entirely a Western effort. Champollion (with the Rosetta Stone), Lepsius, Howard Carter, and all the other great Egyptologists, were from France, England, Germany, and never from Egypt. The Cairo Museum itself was founded by a Frenchman, Mariette.
In present-day Iraq, the artifacts of Ur were discovered by Leonard Woolley (many can now be seen in the collections of the University of Pennsylvania); Assyrian civilization was unearthed by Austen Henry Layard; and so on. The Baghdad Museum, staffed mainly by foreigners and by Christian Iraqis, was merely an outgrowth of Gertrude Bell's Department of Antiquities.
There is no interest in the pre-Islamic past. And in Saudi Arabia it is not merely lack of interest, but outright hostlity, to anything that smacks either of that pre-Islamic past, or that smacks of a saint-worshipping. The Saudis have themselves destroyed almost all of what remained of old Mecca, even destroying buildings connected to the life of Muhammad. Astounding, to us, but not to those who know the Wahhabis.
Look at the pitiful tiny collections, all that is left, in the Kabul Museum (with a forty-page pocket-sized "guide to the museum"). Look at how the Persians, the ones whose minds are thoroughly suffused with Islam, are contemplating the destruction of Persepolis (site of the late Shah's most famous celebration).
Do not assume that Muslims will treat the monuments of the countries within which they have so foolishly been allowed to settle any differently than they have the monuments, pre-Islamic and non-Islamic, in the lands they conquered through military force, long ago. The texts are the same. The tenets are the same. Texts and tenets are immutable.
Only connect.
Posted by: Hugh at January 16, 2008 4:43 PM
Most normal Westerners, even liberals, are not suicidal and not stupid. They may not frequent JihadWatch on a daily (or, in my case, hourly) basis, but they still glean bits of news from here and there, and are aware of the threat posed by Islamic demography and infiltration. I believe it is not an exaggeration to assume that the majority of every Western nation would prefer that the Muslim population they host be removed, forcibly if necessary.
What we see as this or that dhimmi behavior of this or that Western nation, is really the dhimmi behavior of a certain politician (or academician), who, due to his elite position, misrepresents the people of his/her nation.
What I'd like to know is how much longer will the commoners allow their treasonous ruling elites to let Muslims make their (the commoners') life more difficult by using judicial intimidation to frighten critics into silence; exploiting various government mechanisms to secure a privileged status; subvert Western systems of government to serve the Muslims' interests; gang-raping Western women; burning cars; openly declare their intent to take away their freedoms and impose the savagery and backwardness of shari'a; and being aware of and boasting of their eventual demographic supremacy. This last threat --- posed by the Muslim uterus --- should be the greatest cause of concern for Westerners.
One thing is certain: If it is not mass deportations now, it will be civil war against vast numbers of Muslim "compatriots" later.
Posted by: US_infidel at January 16, 2008 5:44 PM
Do not assume that Muslims will treat the monuments of the countries within which they have so foolishly been allowed to settle any differently than they have the monuments, pre-Islamic and non-Islamic, in the lands they conquered through military force, long ago. The texts are the same. The tenets are the same. Texts and tenets are immutable.
"One thing is certain: If it is not mass deportations now, it will be civil war against vast numbers of Muslim "compatriots" later"
Hugh, where do you stand on the "mass-deportation" question? Or maybe a more appropriate question is, given all of these risks you highlight regarding the risks Muslims in non-Muslim societies pose, what should be done with them?
Posted by: Haidon at January 16, 2008 6:54 PM
Islam faces a very serious historical problem. No archaelogical or historical evidence supports the traditional Islamic narrative of the life of Muhammad or of Mecca as the wealthiest trading city of Arabia. Only the Islamic traditions written 150-200 years after the supposed death of Muhammad support the story of Muhammad and the existence of Mecca as an important trading city.
Furthermore, Christian writings from 660-705 AD raise serious questions about the Islamic traditions. In my view, the Qur'an itself casts doubt about that narrative. For example, why would it fail to mention the name of Mecca if Muhammad received much of it there? Why would it fail to identfy the migration as being from Mecca to Medina if that had been the case.
In fact, much of the discussion of the destroyed cities in the Qur'an suggests a venue of the Qur'anic community nearer the Dead Sea than the Hejaz. Obviously, this point is extremely complex and far from clear.
Given the questionable historicity of the Islamic narrative, it should surprise no one that modern Muslems would want to destroy as much of their past and that of Israel as they possibly can. Also, there should be no surprise that they desperately want to prevent excavation by Israelis on Temple Mount.
Cheers.
Posted by: Abu El Banat at January 16, 2008 7:14 PM
US_infidel: ...how much longer will the commoners allow their treasonous ruling elites to let Muslims make their...
One thing is certain: If it is not mass deportations now, it will be civil war against vast numbers of Muslim "compatriots" later.
That's the conundrum of living in a free, civil society. A civil society requires the overwhelming majority live by generally agreed upon rules which attempt to balance individual freedoms and responsibilities. We agree to settle our disputes within a legal framework of nonviolent negotiation and arbitration. We agree to surrender the tactics of organized violence to the state, not only to ensure our domestic peace, but also the coherence and effectiveness of state sanctioned violence against enemies when it becomes necessary.
But when a foreign ideology, enemy, meme, pick your description, invades the intellectual space our society operates in, and desiring to end the civil contract that makes our relative peace possible, closes off areas of discussion, freedoms of expression, and clearness of thought, how far behind can large scale violence be?
The favorite tactic of Islamic imperialists appears to be infiltration to create chaos in infidel societies, to later offer Islam and Sharia as the antidote to the unrest they started in the first place.
The fact the parts of our government stubbornly still refuses to acknowledge the prophet's passion for violence makes the situation more alarming. It becomes unclear whether the problem is ineptitude or complicity. As the level of concern increases, the desire to distinguish between the two decreases.
If the government allows the internal threat to grow without addressing it, it may eventually be perceived as a greater threat to personal safety and freedom than government penalties for criminal acts, and civilization unravels into civil war against threatening elements in society, the government directly, or both.
It is not, in my opinion, too great a leap to believe that a sizeable percentage, very large in absolute numbers, may eventually consider the government fatally inept, even complicit, for its failure to understand and address the fascism inherent in Islam.
Our government's current strategy seems to be an irrational, often contradictory mix of efforts to convince Muslims that "Islam means peace" while convincing us that there is both a grave threat from some mysterious "extremist" philosophy, and no threat from "moderate", "true" Muslims. In that respect it is similar to, if not related to, the government "policy" on controlling the borders; lot's of rhetoric, but none that really addresses the issue, and no constructive action. Meanwhile the danger from government inaction on borders and Islam continues to grow.
at January 16, 2008 7:31 PM
"Or maybe a more appropriate question is, given all of these risks you highlight regarding the risks Muslims in non-Muslim societies pose, what should be done with them?"
Let's spend a trillion dollars surveilling them, because we don't have the balls to deport them, lock, stock and citizen-barrel.
at January 16, 2008 7:31 PM
Remember the Bombiyan Buddhas.
In the words of an expert:
"He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future."
Civilization: down the holy memory hole, known as Islam.
Posted by: profitsbeard at January 16, 2008 7:53 PM
Meanwhile, amid their ongoing and continual destruction of precious non-Muslim cultural artifacts, historical markers, and landmarks the world over, the Islamists rewrite our history, appropriate our technologies to their own nefarious uses, and credit themselves for our most glorious achievements and successes.
Considering the standard Islamic party line typified by Naseem's reference to the Pakistani nukes as "national treasures," I'm willing to bet that someday, should they finally extinguish every last vestigial reminder of our former presence among them, the Muslims will claim they split the atom and discovered the nuclear technology with which they wiped us out.
at January 16, 2008 8:12 PM
Yes, it seems true that the discoveries relating to pre Islamic civilisations in what are now Islamic lands were the work of western historians and archaeologists. And of course, it was assumed that such field of studies were of little interest to the Islamic nations.
In fact it was probably correct to say that we found what they had not yet managed to destroy.
If the Egyptian pyramids and vast structures were left standing, would that not imply that they were far too large to be destroyed.
Perhaps with the aid of acquired western technology this might yet happen.
One shudders to think what this might mean one day for the historic museums,palaces and churches of western Europe
at January 16, 2008 9:24 PM
I remember visiting the Near Eastern exhibits, that is, Islamic Art exhibition rooms both in KC and Philly, and my impression is that Islam produces no art, no literature, outside of the "alf leila wa leila" 1001 nights stories, and no music worth remembering. Even ancient civilizations, much of which have been erased by Islamic conquests, had more art and literature in them than anything in the Islamic era. Has there ever been, in all of history, any culture so bereft of culture?
Posted by: Jauhara Al-Kafirah at January 16, 2008 9:50 PM
Ironic the Muslims would try to distroy everything that came before them, but THEY MAKE BEAUTIFUL THEY OWN MOQUES. Strange and very hyporcritical.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 16, 2008 10:31 PM
For anyone here who has read the whole of Dante's "Divine Comedy", I make the following suggestion:
try reading the Inferno as an analogy for the Dar Al-Islam.
Certainly the ideology of Islam seems to combine in itself, and promote, many of the worst elements of human nature (all of them, I hasten to add, found elsewhere in plenty, but not, elsewhere, so assiduously admired and indeed systematically TAUGHT, as in Islam); when thoroughly put into practice it appears to produce a sort of downward spiral into a void where, at the absolute bottom, the Treacherous devour one another.
In order to enter that dark world, there at the vestibule, one must lose, or abandon, or surrender, 'il ben dell'intelletto', 'the good of the intellect', 'the intellectual Good'.
I think I know how Manuel Paleologus, and Benedict XVI, would interpret that 'intellectual good', that 'ben dell'intelletto'.
And so, then,: beyond and over against that Inferno that is Dar al-Islam (perpetually collapsing in upon itself, dividing itself, devouring itself in its pursuit of absolute Unity) there is...something that corresponds to the Purgatorio and even, in brief and shining moments, reflects or exhibits the Paradiso.
Despite our failures, our flagrant sins - and I speak here as a practising and instructed Christian - by contrast with dar al Islam the entire Infidel world is perpetually shot through and through with glimpses of that freely flowing yet ordered beauty - sinning yet ever newly penitent community; music, dance, art, song, and the life of the mind - which Dante celebrates in his astonishing poetic cathedral.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at January 16, 2008 10:36 PM
US_infidel, RalphInfidel,
It would not suprise me at all if the results will be civil war in the USA because remember, Americans are armed to the teeth. If freedom is threatened, a violent response is possible.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 16, 2008 10:38 PM
No Islam, Know peace.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 16, 2008 10:40 PM
Persepolis is one of the jewels of ancient civilization, preserved by the dry desert air in ruins as Alexander the Great leveled it 2500 years ago. The engravings on the stones have been widely copied in Persian art. Persepolis to many Persians is the most important historic national symbol of their ancient heritage.
Whether recent generations have that loyalty to their past history is a moot question, since their education has been subject to moulah control.
If the moulahs' plan to wipe out this icon of Persian history does not motivate a revolution from below, there is probably little hope that one will ever come.
Posted by: Jimmy Bones at January 17, 2008 2:42 AM
Were there any pictures taken of old Mecca?
When Islam is dust then maybe we can restore old Mecca to it's former glory.
Posted by: Voltaire at January 17, 2008 6:05 AM
Assalamau Laikum all,
When the world is ruled by sharia lite....where is the real need for history.
History says Jews ruled Mecca and Medina before Muhd SAW showed them how to really use the land and the cloth jewish grandaughters should wear.
Whether this is true or not is almost irreleveant...To me, it is the future that is more important, In the future:
Mecca will always be the land of the muslim/wuslim.
Jeruslum will be the city of the wuslim.
Eurabia will be the land of the wuslim.
ISA will the land of the wuslim.
Pakistan will be wuslim
India will be wuslim.
Your grandaughters (and few grandsons) will be Wuslims.
After this....where is the need to know that the historical infedel used to build a Penny's or a Marks & Spencer superstore.
This is Allah T'allah's mercy upon us all....stop wistling dixie in the wind ...and convert...
Posted by: Naseem at January 17, 2008 7:43 AM
naseem, who in an apologist for this...
http://illustratedpig.blogspot.com/2007/03/on-this-day-i4-o3.html
, is working overtime to get everyone stirred up. I, nabi ZK say ignore this troll.
nabi ZK
a nabi you can trust...
Posted by: zonie kafir at January 17, 2008 8:29 AM
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.
at January 17, 2008 9:49 AM
History is a roadmap of civilizations and that includes the historic landmarks. Ignorance IS NEVER STRENGTH, but a great weakness.
Ironic that even in Mecca, the historic is not honored, except for a cube of a building that houses the moon rock god that is worshiped.
Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at January 17, 2008 10:29 AM
From Naseem:
...where is the real need for history ...
Was it John Wayne who said: "Life is tough; it's tougher when you're stupid"?
Thanks for illustrating his point.
at January 17, 2008 1:44 PM
Naseem is baiting unwary eenfeedels again--caught that one about our "granddaughters (and few grandsons)? Harem Scarem.
Poor pathetic Deluded One [fool am I should I believe this troll], crew on this: The Crusader Zionist Yanks are coming! And they won't be back 'til it's over Over There!
DEUS VULT!!
Posted by: John C at January 17, 2008 5:49 PM
Ooops--mean to say, chew on this!
Posted by: John C at January 17, 2008 5:52 PM
CRUSADER ZIONIST YANKS
Great acronym--expresses the true spirit of America's Fighting Men.
Posted by: John C at January 17, 2008 6:07 PM
Please ignore my unintended SILLINESS.
Posted by: John C at January 17, 2008 10:06 PM
RalphInfidel
The favorite tactic of Islamic imperialists appears to be infiltration to create chaos in infidel societies, to later offer Islam and Sharia as the antidote to the unrest they started in the first place.
In short, what the Mob refers to as "a shakedown".
Congrats Ralph, on a very perceptive post. Your finishing paragraph on government evasiveness couldn't have been better timed, given the rebranding of jihad terrorism as "anti-Islamic activity" just a day later by the British Home Secretary.
Posted by: Matamoros at January 18, 2008 12:40 AM
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