Yeah I would really hate that every morning and night

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/12/1097406576795.html?from=storylhs

Posted by: payingattention at February 20, 2008 6:20 AM

There is little that I can say that has not already been said except that in Oxford, England the local people are still protesting against plans to allow the Call to Prayer to be broadcast in a city famous for its ancient university. Apparently this will be used, in the fullness of time, as a precedent to permit such broadcasts to be made in all of England's ancient cities.

The remedy, in a democratic society, is for ordinary citizens to elect representatives who will stand firm against the strategy of radical Muslims.

Posted by: LondonBorn&Bred at February 20, 2008 6:23 AM

ot. Do you know something about this?
http://www.woking.co.uk/news/2021/2021853/secret_talks_over_burial_ground
Secret talks over burial ground

The Muslim community has a problem with burials because graveyards within the borough are attached to churches and it is costly to buy a plot in Brookwood Cemetery.

Posted by: Kybeline at February 20, 2008 6:30 AM

Remember, besides expressing supremacy and claiming the world to be Allahs the Call to Prayer is deeply rooted in Moslems fear of the devil. The louder the call, the more it scares the farts out of Satan. Look at the Hadith:

Bukhari
1.582: Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "When the Adhan is pronounced Satan takes to his heels and passes wind with noise during his flight in order not to hear the Adhan. When the Adhan is completed he comes back and again takes to his heels when the Iqama is pronounced and after its completion he returns again till he whispers into the heart of the person (to divert his attention from his prayer) and makes him remember things which he does not recall to his mind before the prayer and that causes him to forget how much he has prayed."

SAHIH MUSLIM
vol. 1, #751:

Abu Sufyan reported it on the authority of Jabir that he had heard the apostle of Allah say: "When Satan hears the call to prayer, he runs away to a distance like that of Rauha". Sulaiman said: "I asked him about Rauha." He replied, "It is at a distance of 36 miles from Medina."

Posted by: buraq_is_dead at February 20, 2008 6:36 AM

This. Is. Just. Scary.

I can't for the life of me understand why this country is sitting down for this!! Why are Americans sitting down for minerets, foot baths in universities, 5 times prayer breaks at Dell company, etc????

Posted by: Dumpling at February 20, 2008 6:47 AM

Are you sure this isn't a hoax? It's hard to tell from the photos, but the height of the minaret is not in keeping with the height of the surrounding buildings, which makes me wonder how it got planning permission.

Also, I would have expected the "Islamic Community Center" to have a domed roof if it were being used as a mosque. Obviously, not all mosques have domed roofs but if they've gone to the trouble of building an unfeasibly tall minaret, why not have a dome too?

Most odd.

Posted by: watling at February 20, 2008 6:52 AM

"Meet me in St. Louis, Louis,
Meet me at the fair,
Don't tell me the lights are shining
any place but there;
We will dance the Hoochee Koochee,
I will be your tootsie wootsie,
If you will meet in St. Louis, Louis,
Meet me at the fair."

Somehow "meet me at the minaret" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at February 20, 2008 7:47 AM

Assalamau Laikum all,

Isn't St. Louis famous for 1904 fair.
Lot's of razz matazz and blues singing and noise?

Well can you please tone it down now peoples, wuslims need sleep to get up in time for fajr (5am) prayers.

It is said that this is arguably the most important prayer to perform. It is this prayer that truly tests your sacrifice - mainly between your sleep and Allah (SWT).

Imagine if your boss tells you ..."from now on, every single day, I want you to come to my house and wake me up in the morning, about 1/2 hour before sunrise. If you do this, I will give you £100 for every time you wake me up. The condition is - that you cannot miss a day - and that you must wake me before sunrise".

Simple enough isnt it? Ask yourself, would you do it for £100/day? Now, unless you are not capable for some reason, most people would do it. I know I would.

So let us pose this exact same scenario with Fajr prayers. Allah (SWT) has asked that you wake up in the morning for prayers before sunrise and for that he will give you countless Sawabs (rewards) for waking up in the morning and foregoing sleep for a mere 5-7 minutes to remember Him.

Always remember, Allah (SWT) does NOT need your worship, but it is the RIGHT of Allah (SWT) to be worshipped - Just for a moment consider what you have in your life - and just reflect on it and ask yourself - what would I do, or how would I live if I did not have such and such that I now have in my life?

In this digital age you may argue that wuslims should leverage audio tracks - mp3s etc. download the Adhan in mp3 format. Indeed, this is a fantastic way to wake up for morning prayers when your alarm itself is the Call for Prayer - where the first thing you hear is:

Allahu Akbaaaarrrrr -

This is a fantastic reminder to all of us - whether we are in deep sleep or not, that Allah (SWT) is Great - and deserves our Worship!

Unfortunetely many of the older generation are not into internet, MP3 etc....therfore DO need the loudspeakers in the minerets.

Remember what the Koran says about prayer

“Keep up the prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.” Holy Quran, 17:78

Posted by: Naseem at February 20, 2008 8:34 AM

Unfortunetely many of the older generation are not into internet, MP3 etc....therfore DO need the loudspeakers in the minerets.

Posted by: Naseem at February 20, 2008 8:34 AM

Posted by: Shy Guy at February 20, 2008 8:49 AM

Ah, Naseems, your veil (mask) is slipping. The writing style here veered away from the "little Amadhi widow sitting writing from Pakiland" into something a little more....university-pretender.

Best have a little chat with your producer. You need more cohesion.

Posted by: Vee at February 20, 2008 9:10 AM

Ah, Naseems, your veil (mask) is slipping. The writing style here veered away from the "little Amadhi widow sitting writing from Pakiland" into something a little more....university-pretender.

Posted by: Vee at February 20, 2008 9:10 AM

;)

Posted by: Shy Guy at February 20, 2008 9:15 AM

Posted by: Vee at February 20, 2008 9:10 AM

Agreed, 100%. Naseem is a charlatan, and a minimum of two persons.

Posted by: awake at February 20, 2008 9:18 AM

Well, both he and she need to STFU.

Dumpling wrote: I can't for the life of me understand why this country is sitting down for this!! Why are Americans sitting down for minerets, foot baths in universities, 5 times prayer breaks ...

So, stand up. You. Lead. Inspire others to follow you, to seek and embrace truth and act on it as though their freedoms depend on it.

Posted by: undaunted at February 20, 2008 9:43 AM

Compare Naseem's comment here to one he/she/they posted on June 6, 2007.

Naseem 2008 uses the term: Allah (SWT) whereas Naseem 2007 prefers Allah SWT. i.e. inconsistent use of parentheses.

Naseem 2007 likes to use multiple dots to separate phrases - e.g. (from June 6, 2007):

JehanZeb calls it Diversity...call it what you want...what's in a name

whereas Naseem 2008 prefers hyphens.

Naseem 2008 uses commas to separate phrases whereas Naseem 2007 does not.

Posted by: watling at February 20, 2008 9:49 AM

Ah, Naseems, your veil (mask) is slipping. The writing style here veered away from the "little Amadhi widow sitting writing from Pakiland" into something a little more....university-pretender.

Best have a little chat with your producer. You need more cohesion.

Posted by: Vee at February 20, 2008 9:10 AM

Oh, yes! Go to Hugh's article yesterday about not being fooled and see the latest piece of "Naseem's" writing addressed to RS near the end - NOT MOHAMMEDAN AND NOT FEMALE!

As RS has said, Naseem is a non-Moslem and is not female!

Posted by: darcy at February 20, 2008 9:49 AM

Shy Guy, your link was hilarious. But I hope you removed your shoes before entering the site.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at February 20, 2008 9:45 AM

Posted by: Shy Guy at February 20, 2008 9:54 AM

Naseem also doesn't live in Pakistan. She/He is a UK resident.

Posted by: Aiken Bryce at February 20, 2008 10:01 AM

Watling:

"Are you sure this isn't a hoax?"

Not everything is a grand conspiracy, Watling. A quick check on t'Internet would have confirmed that it's true.

As for the domed roof, you‘re mistaken. Most of the mosques - euphemistically disguised as "Islamic centres" - that have sprung up in East London over the past ten years look just like the one pictured. Typically, they take over old commercial premises and convert them into mosques. The one in St Louis used to be a bank.

Francis G. Slay, Mayor of St Louis, is all for the project. On his blog he stated: “I am absolutely delighted to welcome this new symbol of our Bosnian neighbors.”

The site also provides some background to the project. Note in particular the bold text.

"The City of St. Louis already has a world-class collection of water towers and bell towers. Soon, however, we will also have the first minaret in the history of our City, thanks to Imam Muhamed Hasic and his congregation. The Imam, who is president of the St. Louis Islamic Community Center, located at 4666 Lansdowne, has applied for a zoning permit for a minaret."

"...This particular minaret’s balcony feature will be more decorative than functional. The Imam told the Post-Dispatch’s Tim O’Neil that the real value of the minaret on Lansdowne will be its symbolic power. "Everyone will know that we are a mosque," said Hasic. The zoning permit application advances the organization’s dream and will add yet another interesting, attractive, and highly visible feature to the south St. Louis skyline."

UPDATE: The Mayor's site reposted the above article today {Feb 20}, underneath the following paragraph:

"Writers in some local and national blogs have begun spewing invective about the local Bosnian community’s new minaret in south city. According to the newspaper, the St. Louis office of the FBI has been asked to investigate the threats."

http://www.mayorslay.com/desk/default.asp

Posted by: Matamoros at February 20, 2008 10:09 AM

Looks like lipstick on a pig, to me.

Posted by: Abscedere at February 20, 2008 10:27 AM

All joking aside, this is exceptionally offensive being built in a city named for a Catholic saint who fought in the Crusades and died on his way to the Holy Land. You don't think the jihadists are getting a good laugh out of this?

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at February 20, 2008 10:30 AM

Francis G. Slay, Mayor of St Louis, is all for the project. On his blog he stated: “I am absolutely delighted to welcome this new symbol of our Bosnian neighbors.”

Oh yea, great call. I wonder how delighted Mr. Mayor and his constituents will be when it brings the same peace and tranquility it has brought to Bosnia. You know the kind of serenity that John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo brought to Washington DC. Oh, what am I thinking, those were secular criminals... rrrright?

No doubt the noise will make constituents happy right away. I know when I lived in St. Louis, my first thought was: 'what this place really needs is some insomniac fanatic wailing away on a loudspeaker like he had his nuts in a vice… especially at 5:00 am'.

That's going to be popular.

And, once it is in place, how difficult will it be to remove legally?

Looking on the bright side, its stature and noise will leave no doubt where the trouble is coming from. It should make a great hangout after Friday night happy hour.

Is the mosque connected to any of the organizations that are forwarding the Muslim Brotherhood's "grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house"? Is anyone even trying to find the answer to that question?

What's the likelihood that it is not?

Posted by: RalphInfidel at February 20, 2008 11:18 AM

How close does the Mayor of St Louis live to the minaret he is so delighted about?

Posted by: watling at February 20, 2008 11:29 AM

Now that they've staked their claim in a very big way, St. Louis natives will be expected to steer clear of that area and the Islamic encroachment will continue. Since you can't have a happy hour at the mosque, or anywhere near it, St. Louis natives will diminish in that area as Islam increases. There will probably be more building, more Hefty bags and more indignation at any St. Louis born native expecting to have anything the way they would like it.

It is interesting that zoning and height limitations on structures obstructing the city skyline are ignored for the religion of peace. They probably argued that the St. Louis Arch is really, really tall, so why not a butt-ugly minaret, with all the attendant intimidation and subliminal messaging?

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at February 20, 2008 11:30 AM

"Unfortunetely many of the older generation are not into internet, MP3 etc....therfore DO need the loudspeakers in the minerets."

Hey Naseem, the muslims can do all of the wakeup calls they want to; but they have no right to wake ME up, and force me to hear all of the muslim sounds at whatever hour of the day they choose.

Tell you what: since preaching to non-Christians is a part of the obligation of each Christian, why don't the Christians of St. Louis build a Christian center right next door to the Islamic center? Christians can use that as a "base of operations" to go out and preach to the muslims.

And we'll put a big church bell on the top of the building, and ring it for about 20 minutes whenever any church service is to be conducted in the Christina center.

After all, it's part of our religious obligation. You can't stop us from fulfulling our religious obligation.

Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at February 20, 2008 11:35 AM

As a ROMAN Catholic, I remember reciting the Morning Offering upon rising and the Angelus at Noon and again at 6 p.m. Like too many good habits (every pun intended)inculcating this practice in Catholic children fell away during the Post Vat II fever aka "The Silly Years of Father Flakes and Sister Sunshines".

But I have my ANGELUS along with the APOSTLES' CREED and PRAYER TO ST. MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL dusted off and ready to rip forth in full voice should any muezzins start to bellow forth here in Chi town. In fact I am relearning them in both English and my ancestor's beautiful LATIN so that I can say them quietly and fervently now and, as more and more of my country "submits" and more minarets spring up, I can bellow them over the Adhan, fajr, whatever, whenever.

Posted by: bevc at February 20, 2008 11:37 AM

Jews fought this kind of bigotry 50 years ago by the Christian community. They strung up Leo Frank in Atlanta for being nothing more than practicing Jew. The KKK strung up and blew up black churches in the south for being nothing more than what they were. Here we have the same kind of bigotry. It doens't belong in America. I support the mosque and I am Jewish.

Posted by: semitic at February 20, 2008 11:38 AM

I wonder if "spewing invective" includes actual threats to blow the thing up, or merely expressions of hatred or dislike which fortunately are still legal under the first ammendment? I also wonder if (besides votes) the St. Louis islamic community contributes to Hizzoner's campaign warchest? Enquiring minds want to know. Obviously Mr. Mayor would like any of us who do not view this mosque as a positive to sit down and stfu, and happily uses the threat of the FBI to attempt to enforce this.

Posted by: MP at February 20, 2008 11:44 AM

Semitic:

Jews fought this kind of bigotry 50 years ago by the Christian community. They strung up Leo Frank in Atlanta for being nothing more than practicing Jew. The KKK strung up and blew up black churches in the south for being nothing more than what they were. Here we have the same kind of bigotry. It doens't belong in America. I support the mosque and I am Jewish.

Sure you are.

But let it be noted that no one here is talking about lynchings or bombings except you.

Cordially
Robert Spencer

Posted by: jihadwatch at February 20, 2008 11:46 AM

"I support the mosque and I am Jewish"

"Sure you are...Cordially, Robert Spencer"

I'll bet "Semitic" is a Koran-style Jew - one who believes all of the Muslim doctrines. In other words, not a real Jew at all.

Calling himself "Semitic" doesn't mean anything, because Arabs are also semitic people.

Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at February 20, 2008 11:52 AM

I tried to stop this with the help of two Copts and some orthodox. Mayor Francis Slay is a dhimmi Democrat Catholic, the youngest of 11 children. The county executive is also a Dem dhimmi who is spending his days campaigning for Osama Obama and doubling our taxes.

The middle class neighborhood I grew up in is a Bosnian slum full of Section 8 housing and welfare recipients. Hat trick: Us rep Dick Gephardt.

The average St. Louisan doesn't even know about this, but they can probably recite the Cardinals' spring roster or yesterday's winning lotto numbers.

It is so over here.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at February 20, 2008 11:55 AM

From Slay's blog:
Writers in some local and national blogs have begun spewing invective about the local Bosnian community’s new minaret in south city. According to the newspaper, the St. Louis office of the FBI has been asked to investigate the threats.

While they're at it, maybe the FBI could look into who made off with the mayor's common sense. They'll be in the area anyway, now that he has okayed construction of a military command center, not connected with the US government, in the middle of your city.

Checkout this, also from the mayor's blog:

So, what is a "minaret"? Barb Geisman, my office’s expert on such things, says that a minaret is a tall slender tower attached to a mosque, with one or more projecting balconies from which a muezzin summons the people to prayer, and can be freestanding or actually attached to the mosque. The City’s new minaret will be freestanding — kind of like a church steeple without the attached church.

That's a pretty in-depth analysis.

So Barb, what values, traditions, and ideology are attached to that "tall slender tower" that is "kind of like a church steeple without the attached church". And what will be the propaganda taught inside? Perhaps how to make freestanding infidels, without heads?

What's next, a giant swastika?

More than six years after 9/11 and this is the level of education of our elected officials?

We're screwed.

Posted by: RalphInfidel at February 20, 2008 11:55 AM

Why don’t these morons get a watch.

http://www.almedatime.com/medicalalarmwatches.htm?gclid=CPzW_Jqd05ECFQUYlwoduirzbg

Posted by: Joe Schmoe USA at February 20, 2008 11:56 AM

I e-mailed the stupid mayor keeping well-within the bounds of Freedom of Speech so the FBI won't get me! Unbelieveable I have to fear that threat as an American citizen exercising the 1st Amendment!

Here's something I said:

"You remind me of the mayor in the movie "Jaws" who didn't know the monster with which he was dealing, and who was also, like you, an utter fool. And really the Great White Shark is an apt metaphor for the Islamic Barbarians - rapacious and merciless.

So, when will St. Louis be re-named Saladin as demanded by it's Mohammedan residents? Probably within 20 years."

Posted by: darcy at February 20, 2008 12:07 PM

Semitic - You are wasting your breath attempting to cow me by comparing a dislike of islamic theocracy with the racist beliefs of the KKK or National Socialism. In fact, the ambitions of the ummah have much more in common with the Nazis and the Klan than they do with the goals of any other major organized religion.

Posted by: MP at February 20, 2008 12:07 PM

Semitic:

Jews fought this kind of bigotry 50 years ago by the Christian community. They strung up Leo Frank in Atlanta for being nothing more than practicing Jew. The KKK strung up and blew up black churches in the south for being nothing more than what they were. Here we have the same kind of bigotry. It doens't belong in America. I support the mosque and I am Jewish.

Sure you are. --RS

LOL. The above is transparently penned by a Mohammedan. What tells me? Sentence structure, misspelling, and in particular, the word choice of "bigotry" (said twice).

In short, not educated enough to come from a Jewish person.

Posted by: darcy at February 20, 2008 12:13 PM

I think "Semitic" must have once worked in a Baby Milk Factory.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Gryphon at February 20, 2008 12:36 PM

I think "Semitic" must have once worked in a Baby Milk Factory.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Gryphon at February 20, 2008 12:36 PM

Sorry, I don't get your meaning.

Posted by: darcy at February 20, 2008 1:16 PM

Where are all the ordinary folks of St. Louis? Why are they not protesting this with daily picket lines, sandwich boards, a campaign of thousands of letters to the editor, etc.?

I thought it was only those dastardly "Elites" who are blind to the problem of Islam. Right?

Posted by: cantor at February 20, 2008 1:17 PM

Sounds no good to me I wonder if it will sound good to the troops returning from Afghanistan, Iraq etc who are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome or just want to forget.

But of course, they don't count do they.

Posted by: ericthekuffar at February 20, 2008 1:24 PM

I think "Semitic" must have once worked in a Baby Milk Factory.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Gryphon at February 20, 2008 12:36 PM

Sorry, I don't get your meaning.

Darcy
hope this helps

Baby milk factory controversy

One of Arnett's most controversial reports during the Gulf War was a report on how the coalition had bombed a baby milk factory (officially the Abu Ghraib Infant Formula Production Plant). Shortly after the report, an Air Force spokesman stated "Numerous sources have indicated that [the factory] is associated with biological warfare production". Later that day, Colin Powell stated "It was a biological weapons facility, of that we are sure". White House spokesman Marlin Fitzwater stated "That factory is, in fact, a production facility for biological weapons," and "The Iraqis have hidden this facility behind a facade of baby-milk production as a form of disinformation." The image of a crudely-made hand-painted sign reading "Baby Milk" in English and Arabic in front of the factory, and a lab coat dressed in a suit containing stitched lettering reading "BABY MILK PLANT IRAQ" only served to further the perception that purportedly civilian targets were simply being made to look like that by Saddam Hussein, and that Arnett was duped by the Iraqi government. The sign appeared to have been added by the Iraqis before the camera crews arrived as a cheap publicity ploy. Newsweek called the incident a "ham-handed attempt to depict a bombed-out biological-weapons plant near Baghdad as a baby-formula factory."

Posted by: Meccano at February 20, 2008 2:04 PM

Posted by cantor:
Where are all the ordinary folks of St. Louis? Why are they not protesting this with daily picket lines, sandwich boards, a campaign of thousands of letters to the editor, etc.?

I thought it was only those dastardly "Elites" who are blind to the problem of Islam. Right?

Good question. Probably lulled to sleep by media too 'sensitive' to print the details of Islamic duty or show the carnage it causes. What beacons of freedom and objectivity those courageous reporters and news bureaus are, so brave in confronting anyone not posing an actual threat to them and so generous in their praise of an ideology that will eventually shut them down.

No, it's not just the "dastardly Elites" who are clueless, but it is the "elites" in government and media who have the legal and moral responsibility to learn about threats to the nation, to our system of civil law, and communicate those threats to the public in a rational, factual manner.

Precious few in either group have spent time and energy to gain more than a superficial knowledge of Islamic theology, its system of law, and its history. There are really just a few possibilities available to explain their lack of concern: complicity, stupidity, cowardice, and ignorance. These may not be seven deadly sins, but they could prove to be four fatal frailties.

Posted by: RalphInfidel at February 20, 2008 2:54 PM

RalphInfidel,

I agree that the Elites have a responsibility to inform the public, and that they have been horribly remiss in that responsibility.

However, in relatively free democracies such as pertain throughout the West (Great Britain, Europe, Australia, NZ, North America), the public have little excuse to find out for themselves about major pressing problems.

So the fact of the public's general attitude (whether more or less unthinkingly automatic, or more the fruit of actual opinions they have developed) of politically correct multi-culturalism with regard to Islam is not due only, or even mostly, to their being "lulled to sleep". In relatively free democracies, the broad majority of people are not manipulated, nor manipulable like that -- and to think so is to indulge, IMO, in excessively dark cynicism and alienation, leading too easily to untenable conspiracy theories, etc.

The public's general PC MC is not, in main part, due to machinations by anybody: it simply reflects the dominant worldview of the modern West in our time, the fruit of a sea change in consciousness that has occurred throughout the West in the past half century or more.

I am not denying that machinations by Elites do not occur. What I am maintaining, however, is that --

1) the majority of those Elites are not consciously traitors supporting the enemy willingly and consciously either for money (right-wing Elites) or for ideology (left-wing Elites);

and that

2) what machinations certain Elites do successfully perpetrate would have little or no traction, were there not a broader, deeper predisposition toward PC MC already existing in the Western mindset on all levels, all classes, all positions on the political spectrums -- with those thinking outside the Box being in the small minority, which as far as I can see is still only growing at an excruciatingly slow rate.

Most Western Elites -- particularly in politics and media -- do not as a rule go against the general flow of attitudes and opinions. Thus, it stands to reason that when Western Elites are being pro-Islam, they are not being mavericks going against the grain: no, they are going with the grain, and they have become very good at determining what that grain is. They spend millions of dollars of studies that raise a wet finger up to the air, trying to ascertain the broad majority consensus.

Furthermore, most Western Elites are themselves true believers in PC MC, and so when they say and do things that manifest stupid blindness to the dangers of Islam, it is not, for the most part, because they have been bribed with money (right-wingers), or because they are "Gramscian" Revolutionaries who are trying to overthrow the West (Leftsts) -- No: it is primarily because, as true believers in PC MC, they automatically assume that Islam itself is not a problem, and that the vast majority of Muslims are good decent "moms and pops" like the rest of us. When one assumes these axioms, other actions follow logically. And these axioms are the mainstream.

Posted by: cantor at February 20, 2008 3:42 PM

Answer to al DW'ers asking, "Where are all the people in St. Louis," i.e., when the giant minaret was being constructed?

During the Clinton Kosovo War, St. Louisans were told to "welcome war refugees" to our city. Catholic Charities and Reform Hebrew Groups went into overdrive funding this welcome wagon reuse.
My attorney, an orthodox Serb whose office is about 2 mi. from this mosque, sounded an alarm. The same people who plundered his homeland were now coming to his new homeland.

We went to meeting after meeting citing zoning issues, but there is a large water tower near there and they said it was a precedent...hell, I said the St. Louis Arch was a precedent, but neither of these structures are religious ones. No one at these meetings wanted to be "against anyone's religion" (except me).

If you mapquest the address on Lansdowne Ave. where the gigantic minaret is to the 25,000 sf mosque on Lemay Ferry Rd., it is about 10 Miles. South St. Louis has ethnic gang problems and this adds to the mix. The labor unions jumped in and let Bosnian men and illegal Hispanics join without initiation fees. Blacks and whites must pay $200-600 to join these unions. BOTTOM LINE: THE DEMOCRATS HAVE RUINED ST. LOUIS.

Posted by: CapitalistGig at February 20, 2008 3:52 PM

Cantor,

I agree with your points (1) and (2). But I don't agree with:

The public's general PC MC is not, in main part, due to machinations by anybody: it simply reflects the dominant worldview of the modern West in our time, the fruit of a sea change in consciousness that has occurred throughout the West in the past half century or more.

My question is: how did PC MC become the dominant worldview in the West?

It has been taught in universities. Those university students become professors, teachers, politicians, church leaders, etc; and being true believers, continue spreading the ideology. Sounds exactly like what Gramsci had in mind to me: government by feeling, not reason. As in: spread the feeling, make it a movement, and bring down the West from the inside.

The "Religion of Peace" and "Islam means peace" lines are perfect examples. This was not the general public mood on 9/12/2001, yet this is what we were told.

I am not absolving the general public of our responsibility to educate ourselves, but we should expect more from our leaders and educators. We should expect them not to lead us down the garden path. We should expect them, at the very least, to lead and educate, and replace them if they don't.

Posted by: RalphInfidel at February 20, 2008 4:28 PM

Answer to al DW'ers asking, "Where are all the people in St. Louis," i.e., when the giant minaret was being constructed?

During the Clinton Kosovo War, St. Louisans were told to "welcome war refugees" to our city. Catholic Charities and Reform Hebrew Groups went into overdrive funding this welcome wagon reuse.
My attorney, an orthodox Serb whose office is about 2 mi. from this mosque, sounded an alarm. The same people who plundered his homeland were now coming to his new homeland.

We went to meeting after meeting citing zoning issues, but there is a large water tower near there and they said it was a precedent...hell, I said the St. Louis Arch was a precedent, but neither of these structures are religious ones. No one at these meetings wanted to be "against anyone's religion" (except me).

If you mapquest the address on Lansdowne Ave. where the gigantic minaret is to the 25,000 sf mosque on Lemay Ferry Rd., it is about 10 Miles. South St. Louis has ethnic gang problems and this adds to the mix. The labor unions jumped in and let Bosnian men and illegal Hispanics join without initiation fees. Blacks and whites must pay $200-600 to join these unions. BOTTOM LINE: THE DEMOCRATS HAVE RUINED ST. LOUIS.

We just can't get enough of bringing things upon ourselves, can we?

There can be no doubt now how great civilizations collapse. Toynbee was accused of reading too many of his own views and presuppositions into Roman history with respect to the way in which collapse in morality and public virtue led to a collapse in civilization. There can't be much doubt now, can there?

Posted by: PRCalDude at February 20, 2008 5:09 PM

Remember the movie The Time Machine - the one released in 1960 starring that handsome hunk, Rod Taylor? ....heart be still!!

Anyway - this Call to Prayer reminds me of when the Morlocks would blast their loud horn, and then the humans living above ground would turn into zombies - as if in a trance - and then they mindlessly found themselves walking into an underground trap where the Morlocks lived and would eat them.

I'm seeing some interesting parallels between Islam and that movie:

Morlocks = Muslims
Loud Horn = Prayer Tower
Zombies = Zombies
Feed the false god = Feed the false god

There are some striking similarities, alright.

Posted by: champ at February 20, 2008 6:10 PM

Champ,

Spot on with your analogy to The Time Machine.

I have always felt another sci fi flick was very analogous to the threat we are facing ... John Carpenter's They Live.

Robert Spencer is sort of provding us with the "special" sunglasses and contact lens upgrades. What do yo think?

Posted by: Paleologos at February 20, 2008 7:57 PM

"I have always felt another sci fi flick was very analogous to the threat we are facing ... John Carpenter's They Live.

Robert Spencer is sort of provding us with the "special" sunglasses and contact lens upgrades. What do yo think?"

Posted by: Paleologos

I have not seen the movie, They Live, but I did a little research and read a short summary on the movie. At first I didn't understand what you meant by "special sunglasses", not until I read the summary; and according to it, the main character finds a pair of glasses that give him unique insights that would otherwise escape his attention. Sounds like a movie I should rent!

Posted by: champ at February 20, 2008 8:44 PM

What about, "They Saved Hitler's Brain" - a must see!

Posted by: darcy at February 20, 2008 8:46 PM

RalphInfidel,

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree: I don't agree with your answer to your question -- "how did PC MC become the dominant worldview in the West?"

I think it's a much broader sociological process of change concomitant with Western Progress in general (the flaw in the ointment). Why otherwise do so many conservatives buy into the party line that "Islam is a religion of peace" and the "vast majority of Muslims are nice people"? Surely conservatives haven't been manipulated by those university elites. No: a broader deeper process of change has occurred in the modern West, not so easily reducible to dastardly agents.

Posted by: cantor at February 20, 2008 9:03 PM

"I support the mosque and I am Jewish."

@ semitic:

The post (and subsequent comments) isn't about the mosque. It's about the mineret and loudspeakers. Please try to stay on track. And since you support the mosque (if you really are Jewish, and I doubt it) I guess you won't have any problems with it when they start preaching "death to the Jews" from said mosque--like in Dearborn, MI.

"So, stand up. You. Lead. Inspire others to follow you"

@ undaunted

Actually, I am very involved. I don't need to share the details of that with you or anyone else here. My comment was referring to the people who ALLOW these things to take place--such as the president of the college who allowed the foot baths. Such as the CEO of Dell who allowed Muslims to take extra breaks during work time for their prayers. Like the mayor of St. Louis who allowed Muslims to erect a mineret WITH LOUDSPEAKERS.

This should have been obvious.

Posted by: Dumpling at February 20, 2008 9:22 PM

Oh.

Posted by: undaunted at February 20, 2008 9:54 PM

Does that thing look like it is leaning to anyone else?

One can always hope.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at February 20, 2008 10:13 PM

BTW, Brigitte Gabriel sent me this and will be attending this event:

We would like to invite you to join us at the Forum on Global Terrorism: Prevention, Strategies and Policy “Glimpse of a Tragedy without End”*

View a powerful photojournalism exhibit on the terrorism in Kashmir, designed by award-winning journalist and author Francois Gautier. Watch clips from award-winning documentaries on the impact of global terrorism. Participate in an Expert Interfaith Panel Discussion with:

Ilan Avisar, PhD, Moderator, Professor of Film and Television, Tel Aviv University, Israel, and visiting Professor at ODU

Benjamin Dobrin, PhD, Academic Fellow on Terrorism with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, Virginia Wesleyan College

Rabinder Koul, PhD, Director of the Foundation Against Continuing Terror-USA and an expert on Kashmir

Special Guest, Former Muslim, Expert on the Quran, Radical Islam and Terrorism

ACT for America will have a display table at this forum. This will be an excellent opportunity not only to learn more about global terrorism but to network with others who share the passion and persuasion that it is time to rise in defense of America.

Where: Regent University Campus – School of Communication and the Arts Building
When: Thursday, Feb. 21, 2008
Reception: 6:30, Lobby
Event: 7:00, Screening Room A

Anyone living near there or anyone willing to drive is welcome to attend.

1.757.226.4127

Regent University
1000 Regent University Drive
Virginia Beach, VA 23464
USA

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at February 20, 2008 10:36 PM

It doens't belong in America. I support the mosque and I am Jewish.

What don't belong in America are muslims and their supremacist icons like obscene minarets and tacky mosques full of rabid jihadis. Fully veiled muslimas don't belong in America, nor do malevolent imams and mullahs.

You're no more Jewish than I am but if you were, you would be a blind fool to support your mortal, eternal enemies. Muslims despise Jews with unrestrained passion, or haven't you heard?

Posted by: Susanp at February 20, 2008 10:39 PM

HAAA HHAAHHA!!!! Frank Zappa Rocks!! LOVE your idea!!!

Posted by: champ at February 21, 2008 2:27 AM

"The height of the minaret is not in keeping with the height of the surrounding buildings, which makes me wonder how it got planning permission."

From a posting above.

That's the trouble with Islam. If they get permission to built the minarets 6 meters high, they will make them twice as tall and pay the fine. Standard procedure everywhere.

In most places they also promise to never call to prayers with loudspeakers, but once the minarets are up they are just doing their thing. And the dhimmi's usually back off when they're being intimidated by large numbers of bearded kaftan-men and burka-clad females who scream for their blood....

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at February 21, 2008 3:06 AM

I wonder if they will hear the awful screeching in Oxford ?

Posted by: ericthekuffar at February 21, 2008 8:03 AM

People - letting you know that the mayor of St. Louis e-mailed me back and said that the minaret, "designed by a St. Louis architect" is "purely ornamental not functional" and will not have loudspeakers or any other noise coming from it.

Let me repeat: "PURELY ORNAMENTAL NOT FUNCTIONAL."

Please pass this along.

It's an outrage nonetheless.

Posted by: darcy at February 21, 2008 10:27 AM

Thanks for writing the mayor, darcy! It certainly is an outrage, as well as an eyesore; and one has to wonder if future plans include 'sound', otherwise what's the point? Just to be IN YOUR FACE about it?

Posted by: champ at February 21, 2008 12:41 PM

Posted by cantor:

I think it's a much broader sociological process of change concomitant with Western Progress in general (the flaw in the ointment). Why otherwise do so many conservatives buy into the party line that "Islam is a religion of peace" and the "vast majority of Muslims are nice people"? Surely conservatives haven't been manipulated by those university elites. No: a broader deeper process of change has occurred in the modern West, not so easily reducible to dastardly agents.

Apparently, I didn't express myself clearly:

It has been taught in universities. Those university students become professors, teachers, politicians, church leaders, etc; and being true believers, continue spreading the ideology. Sounds exactly like what Gramsci had in mind to me: government by feeling, not reason. As in: spread the feeling, make it a movement, and bring down the West from the inside.

Think of those Gramscian memes as a small cloud of noxious gas released in a large room. Soon it diffuses through the entire room, stinking the whole place up.

I also agree to disagree... that has to be one of the objectives of this website, and our civilization.

Posted by: RalphInfidel at February 21, 2008 1:27 PM

Take a look at how the religion of peace built this minaret and look at how they obtained the materials to build it...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ec-V5FVt_bs

Posted by: kasper1062 at February 21, 2008 3:45 PM

That's a tall tower. Could be a hazard to aircraft navigation. I hope no one flies a plane into it.

Posted by: Guy Macher at February 23, 2008 6:20 PM

Guy Macher, I've had a very long day but you just made it with that last comment. LOL!!!

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at February 23, 2008 11:38 PM