I love how the media uses the word 'researchers' to justify any ends or any means.

Since this reporter is pushing an agenda, can this reporter show this research? Or the researcher? I want to see the data that is being quoted.

If the reporter cannot produce the researcher then he sould be fired for fabricating a news piece.

If the reporter wanted to look at research and facts that are disturbingly overlooked then he should write a piece on, Global Warming NOT happening, or truth about Islam.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at February 21, 2008 5:59 PM

Didn't Dan Rather convince even the most gullible American that the mainstream media is no longer capable of being trusted?
Reuters is probably worse than AP, although I think they are all the same -- not because they are controlled by Rupert Murdoch (conspiracy theorists take note) but because they don't check facts in even a rudimentary way.

Posted by: WC at February 21, 2008 6:05 PM

Associated 'Poppycock' Press is at it again! Where do they find their journalists - hidden under rocks?

Posted by: champ at February 21, 2008 6:06 PM

7 abortion doctors since 1973

3,000 Americans on 9/11

10,000 terror attacks since 2001

43 million babies since 1973

So which of the above is worst?

Posted by: alaskan1000 at February 21, 2008 6:07 PM

Any item that contains the phrases "experts believe" or "researchers say" immediately raises a red flag.

Posted by: MP at February 21, 2008 6:27 PM

You run into this sentiment all over the web.
I believe it is called stupidity.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at February 21, 2008 6:43 PM

_Examples of religious-based include the white-supremacist Aryan Nation, founded in Idaho, and the Oklahoma Constitutional Militia; both are now closed down.

Of course they are closed down. Will islam be "closed down"? Of course not.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at February 21, 2008 6:49 PM

Ummmmm........Alaskan1000,

1st-Are you female????????To me,men who scream about abortions should SHUT UP...except that I DO respect free speech.....Do you KNOW what its like to terminate a pregnancy.It SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!I'm sooooooo sick of people who think that women use abortion as a BIRTH CONTROL METHOD.I've never heard such shit(ok,fair enough YOU didnt say that.)dO YOU KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO HAVE NO CHOICE????Have the baby and give it up????Sometimes thats just not possible....imagine the trauma of carrying a rape or incest baby to term................I'll tell you what also stinks......when you are sooooooooooooo careful about birth control and you're stuck in a situation that you never wanted to be in.To me,a man who wants to complain about abortions better have NEVER had unprotected sex,worn a condom no matter what SHE said......or better yet wait until you are married to a woman who agrees w/you.Do you know how many women I know....some have had the child,(some ended up having later term abortions b/c Mr.Promises bailed out)...and the man who said he'd do right "couldn't take the responsibility" or met someone else etc.

As far as abortions past the first tri-mester....Ive talked to/known many women who had them,.They ALL fall into one of 3 categories...

1.)They did not know they were pg. as they were still menstruating(Yes,it happens MUCH more often than people would think)

2.)They wanted to get it done asap(I DO see a huge diff.between early 1st term abortions and later ones as far as "ethics" go)but had not the $$$,and SINCE medicaid WILL pay for pregnancy,but not abortion...(Also maybe if the same people who gen'lly whine about abortions also whine about society helping young mothers in need a.k.a "welfare queens"didn't,more young women would have their babies.... raising a child is NOT easy and QUITE EXPENSIVE!!!!

3.)This is the saddest of all.Women who desperately want their babies,but b/c of either serious maternal or fetal health problems MUST terminate.

See this is off topic MAYBE but the same people who believe an unborn childs' welfare is ALWAYS worth more than the Moms are so like the Muslims in their devaluation of women.

you know ,abortions DO stink and Im super pro choice.....but I also believe in zero population growth.....b/c whatever your religion.or if you have none ,what we have done/are doing to this beautiful ,incredible, planet that G-D or the Universe created is the biggest sin of all.

Peace,KittyBootz

Posted by: KittyBootz at February 21, 2008 6:51 PM

KittyBootz ,
I just would not go there with this subject.
It is not for Jihadwatch, and is explosive.
I am totally against abortion, 3rd trimester abortion is an abomination.
Men have a right to say what they want to about abortion because many of the "products of conception" are male.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at February 21, 2008 6:55 PM

LOOK OUT AMERICA! You just NEVER know when one of those wretched, accursed Right to Life fanatics may emerge from the shadows to wreak terror, death, and the destruction of our very way of life!!

Good heavens, why this poster himself may have participated in the annual March for Life in D.C. not once, or twice, but eight times past! I never knew that terror lay as close at hand as my own bedstead!!

Posted by: John C at February 21, 2008 6:56 PM

No, I don't want to discuss abortion as such; I don't believe in directly intended abortion (the right to a dead baby), whether or not permitted by civil law, as it violates my understanding of natural moral law. (Ask me what I would do if a close female relative were sexually assaulted--GET HER IMMEDIATE MEDICAL HELP! DUH!!--I wouldn't talk about hypotheticals weeks after the fact.)

And I think Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton are deeply flawed constitutional law with unintended consequences, not divine fiat. It should be dealt with by elected legislators, not "an exercise of raw judicial power" that leaves no state's statutes untouched--striking down laws, like Texas' and Michigan's, that stood for over a century, and even New York's liberalized law, which stood for less than three years!

Very bad precedent, indeed, if you consider, say, organized effort by a growing Muslim majority to legalize polygamy under the rubric of "choice."

Posted by: John C at February 21, 2008 7:22 PM

Sorry, sould read, "growing Muslim minority."

Posted by: John C at February 21, 2008 7:25 PM

This attitude is the same I get each time I try to respond to someone who tries the "religious relativism" argument when attempting to explain why they see all religions as evil. They are incapable of understanding, or choose not to see, the absolute moral difference between Islam and any other religion and that, it seems to me is the crux of the biscut (Thanks, Frank Zappa). Over and over and over I try, Lord knows I try, to explain how Islam is a way, a path, a complete social way of behaving that excludes any free thought or action, and the anger, the animosity and the hatred that seethes from every pore is just amazing. There is no way, as far as I can see, to actually get any of these people to think critically and truly understand the difference between black and white, I would even bet that most would argue the SHADE of black or white rather than accept the obvious differences. And these shades enable them to rationalize away their deep misunderstanding, their abiding ignorance of even a shred, a scintilla of truth. It is sad, and depressing to think that these same deniers can and do wield their oh so obscure visions like a sword, ready to cut down the very souls who would, without missing a beat defend them and theirs, even at the expense of their own lives. The fight is long, and we are weary but we will push on, we will prevail God willing.

"Kuffirs of the world, Unite!"
"Islam, abusing women and children since 622AD"

Posted by: OregonJake at February 21, 2008 7:28 PM

Yes, PC moral equivalance demands that we exaggerate the menace of moribund home-grown kooks, and emphasize their exotic, rootless religiose colorings, rather than take the true measure of global Islamic jihad and the religiously grounded imperative of Islamic supremacy in all spheres of life, public and private.

Posted by: John C at February 21, 2008 7:40 PM

There's a Church full of Roman Catholic pro-lifers just three blocks from my house!!! Should I be afraid. I heard they even drink blood. lol

Posted by: James Martel at February 21, 2008 8:20 PM

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Posted by: John C at February 21, 2008 9:04 PM

Interestinconundrun,(and others)

You are right.Robert Spencer and the good folks who read and post dont deserve that......However,I got angry and saw red.......But unlike SOME OTHERS I COULD NAME I USE WORDS. Civilized people can agree to disagree......that is part of the beauty of this country,and the best part of Western Civilization.

I believe that is why the "Jihadis" use it against us.....But is one of our best traits.It is sad that people who live completely monoculturally a.k.a Islamic sharia states will never see it and feel so threatened by it....It places no .demands on ones beliefs,intellect,OR tolerance .....I just dont understand WHY are they so frightened & so threatened...If Islam is as wonderful as they say,they shouldn't be threatened at all,am I right?B/c by comparing and contrasting everyone will just flock to nIslam.Hmmmmmmm...Maybe they know the Emperors new clthes really arent there after all!

Posted by: KittyBootz at February 21, 2008 9:51 PM

Classic Muhammedan agit prop.

Whenever you get into a so-called debate with a follower of the 'RoP' the issue of the abortion clinics, the KKK, Tim McVeigh and Christian fundamentalists is thrown at you.

Its an old hat.

But the stupidity of the MSM to peddle this schlock and shove it down the collective throats of their readers is mind boggling.

However, those who still read LGF could see clearly (yesterday) why this happens: the perp is a close friend of the imam who regularly writes puff pieces in his fish-wrap, just like Gavin King of the Cairns Post writes Islamo-propaganda on behalf of the local imam.

Why? Heaven knows. But we've always had traitors in our society, the difference was that, in the past they were quickly hanged, nowadays we allow them to distort, to confuse and to peddle enemy propaganda. Strange world indeed.

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at February 22, 2008 1:26 AM

Posted by KittyBootz:
you know ,abortions DO stink and Im super pro choice.....but I also believe in zero population growth.....b/c whatever your religion.or if you have none ,what we have done/are doing to this beautiful ,incredible, planet that G-D or the Universe created is the biggest sin of all.
Peace,KittyBootz

Kitty,

Reading your entry made me think of a quote that has stuck with me since I first began reading about Islam. I believe it is a Cheyenne saying that I first read as a quote in one of Robert Spencer's books, but I may be wrong about that. My apologies in advance to Robert and the Cheyenne if I am incorrect. It's late, and I'm too tired tonight to chase it down.

The quote is simple, and I think, very insightful:

"A Nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground. Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong its weapons."

We can, and have, fielded the bravest warriors. We build the best weapons that can be built. But I worry that too many of the women in the West have their hearts on the ground. I hope you are not among them.

We can (and do) argue endlessly about the wisdom of fighting this or that military campaign. We argue about what resources to devote to military hardware.

But I think there's one thing none of us here will argue about. We need all the heart we can collectively muster.

Posted by: RalphInfidel at February 22, 2008 2:41 AM

This is NOT about abortion.

Those who get into heated debates over pro & con should take their moral beer elsewhere.

This is about the 5 or 6 fanatics who bombed abortion clinics!

Muhammedan's use them to make it look as if their 10.600 major terrorist attacks in the name of Allah since 9/11 could somehow be compared with the 5 or 6 nutbags who terrorized abortion clinics.

Stick with that!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at February 22, 2008 3:09 AM

Does anyone care which group is actually the second most prolific use of terror?

Environmentalists - here's an example:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080221/ap_on_re_us/ucla_researchers_attacks

Posted by: Pelayo at February 22, 2008 5:41 AM

Read the actual AP article. While it mentions the word "abortion," that is the only time it is mentioned. The majority of the article deals with groups like the nazi skinheads and ELF (which is the #1 domestic terror group on the FBI list due to the millions of dollars of destruction it causes).

I would be more concerned about this:

"Right-wing extremists tend to be early risers, striking in the morning, he said, while left-wing activists wait until evening and environmentalists wait until after midnight."

I like the play on words here. It's "right-wing extremists" vs. "left-wing activists" and then "enviromentalists." Keeping in mind that the far left loons...I'm sorry "activists" & "enviromentalists" account for the majority of domestic terrorism. Think about it, even PETA is a terrorist organization because it condones & endorses throwing paint on people wearing fur coats, regardless if animals were not killed for their fur.

Simply because the word "abortion" is mentioned, everybody goes nuts when no where else in the story are pro-lifers even mentioned. Using AP's definition, posters on this site are considered extremists rather than activists for a cause.

Posted by: Whatsittoyou at February 22, 2008 8:19 AM

"Right-wing extremists tend to be early risers, striking in the morning, he said, while left-wing activists wait until evening and environmentalists wait until after midnight."

Yeah, I laughed my arse off reading that tidbit of great knowledge.
All you "right-wing extremists" out of the rack!

Posted by: interestinconundrum at February 22, 2008 11:25 AM

Typical liberal/conservative agitprop.

Oh as far as the FBI is concerned, I'm surprised they name the Nazi skin heads as a threat since they are mostly a prison gang. Hell the Samoan gangs of Los Angeles have more members than the Skin heads have in the entire country.

They ought to be putting the MS-13 gang at the top since its nationwide in scope, specializes in drug dealing, extortion, prostitution, smuggling illegals, black marketing and has tens of thousands of members and routinely kill people who get in their way, especially blacks.

Since MS-13 is Hispanic they are given a pass.

BTW MS-13 is responsible for more deaths and injuries, property damage than PETA, ELF and Nazi skin heads combined.

Gotta love conservatives and their twisted reasoning where PETA and ELF get elevated to top threats while ignoring the real ones.

These overfed middle-aged clowns worry more about PETA and ELF than MS-13 that is selling drugs to their kids and taking over neighborhoods across the country.

It would be funny if the stakes weren't so high.

Posted by: waltc at February 22, 2008 11:38 AM

They also included environmental extremists, shouldn't that make cons happy?

Posted by: Dumbo at February 22, 2008 12:18 PM

KittyBootz,

Thank you for speaking up! I'm sick of all those people who come down on abortion too. Abortion is never the first choice. I guess those "holier than thou" would like to see millions of children in foster care or on the streets. I never see those people who are against abortion to volenteer taking in tons of children. I guess they never heard of the word 'rape'. Who the hell wants to have a child by a rapist? Or how about those kids who are sexually active? Should all kids who are 16 or 17 be having children? Hell no, they can't even take care of themselves for god sakes. You can drill birth control into their heads, but are they smart enough to use it? Hell no.

Posted by: mrockroll1969 at February 22, 2008 1:11 PM

KittyBootz...mrockroll1969

You are missing the forest by staring at a tree.

My point was numbers, and only numbers. Look at the numbers and tell which number is bigger, it is simple.

I am pro-choice. Surprise. I like to still say that there are pros and cons with every decision. I can see the numbers without trying to come up with situation ethics to justify someones existance. Jihadist have the same situation ethics to decide who should live or not in the West. All you have to do is search for an excuse.

A recent work discussion came up on the subject of 'Abortion vs. Immigration'. The idea was brougth up that if our population was 43 million bigger how much would our U.S. census growth be, how much healthier would our economy be, how many immigrants would the U.S. be needing to bring in?

Using Europe as an example, they have not, will not, and have a pill not to breed. This stance has created a declining population, thus then the need of immigrants. The problem we all talk about without using the 'A' word that causes backlash.

Numbers alone show that islam is being welcomed into western nations because westerners will not breed.

I have never seen this as an issue brought up in Western media or even Jihad sites. Abortion may not be an issue that should be discussed here, but if one of islams tools is reproduction and it is, then why wouldn't this be an issue of concern.

Islam is admitting that if they don't win by the gun they will win by the womb.

While on the surface it sounds like an abortion issue it quickly turns into an immigration issue.

Move past the word abortion without applying situation ethics, and see if I am clear in conveying a this immigration concern.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at February 22, 2008 2:04 PM

This is a total red herring issue. The fact that it was posted in the first place, an article that hardly anyone read and is vague as heck, shows a complete lack of purpose. So everyone here is supposed to fume at AP cause of this? Don't waste any time on this one!

Posted by: Dumbo at February 22, 2008 2:07 PM

The USA isn't bringing in muslims and giving amnesty to millions of mexicans because "they're doing the jobs Americans won't do". They're bringing them in for votes. And it's the same for Europe. How many people do you honestly need in a country that outsources all the jobs anyway? Isn't 300 million quite enough? I don't want to see non-muslims countries trying to "out breed" muslims. That argument is ridiculous. If we did that, we would turn into another starving 3rd world country. The middle east is filled with tons of people who can't support themselves. That's what will happen to us if we try to have a bunch of kids per family - how can anybody support all those children? It's impossible. Thats why most family have only 2-3 children - common sense.

Posted by: mrockroll1969 at February 22, 2008 2:19 PM

mrockroll1969 posted:

USA isn't bringing in muslims and giving amnesty to millions of mexicans because "they're doing the jobs Americans won't do". They're bringing them in for votes.

…and to provide taxpayer subsidized unskilled labor for businesses.

I don't want to see non-muslims countries trying to "out breed" muslims. That argument is ridiculous.

There aren't a lot of alternatives.

If Islam cannot be 'moderated', then demographics will eventually demand that the West either submit to, out breed, or reduce the Muslim population.

As far as I'm concerned, the submission option is out.

This is why women need to get more involved in this conversation. Since apostasy is punishable by death, and abortion is not practiced in Islamic societies to the extent it is in Western societies, 'reducing' the Muslim population will become a major hand-wring-a-thon for the West. It will wind up as some form of ex post facto abortion. Like war.

Feminists should view the situation with even more alarm. If the West is out bred and Sharia rules, the freedom of self determination for women in the West is history. If Islamists have their way, I'm sure it will be forgotten history. All that lofty feminist debate about the superiority of the feminine and oppressive nature of the male will be over. The oppressive nature of the male, the Islamic male, will be the "natural order".

And it won't be like you'll just be able to hold an election and reverse it.

Posted by: RalphInfidel at February 22, 2008 4:16 PM

RalphInfidel,

Yeah I forgot about that slave labor thing - isn't that illegal? It should be.

The way I see it, deportation is the only way out of this mess. It's a lot more humane than the alternative. Our lawmakers better start getting to work (I know, quit dreaming) before it's too late.

They better hurry. According to naseem, the USA has about 50 years left.

Posted by: mrockroll1969 at February 22, 2008 4:46 PM

Ralph Infidel,

Im very curious about this saying you posted:

"A Nation is not conquered until the hearts of its women are on the ground. Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong its weapons."

I used to be very ummm"into" Native American Spirituality when I was younger,as I found a lot in that resonated w/what most would call .G-D,the G-dhead,the Great Spirit,the Universal Life force,the great unmade potentialty in me....

I guess there could be many ways to take it.How do you interpret it?

It seems like it fits the women of Islamofascists,but they might say its where their hearts should be,since their hearts are on the ground when they pray to Allah.

On to the topic,I believe myself & other "Western" women would ideally like to have more kids...HOWEVER.....ummmmm there are things like practical issues,money,quality of life,soul,LOVE.Most women I know, want children,but believe every life they have is precious,EVERY soul is precious and you must try and give it the best start you can,not necesserally w/money but w/love and good values etc(Im not explaining myself well AT ALL today=sigh)To just mindlessly pop out offspring so there can be "more of us than them" is pretty sinful.Look at most jihadis,WHAT KIND OF HOME LIFE DO YOU THINK THESE PEOPLE HAVE??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Every life is a rare and precious flower,to raise it up to "honor kill"(sic)it,just b/c she breaks a rule,or as cannon fodder"suicide bombers"....shows how little they value life....which seems like no matter how much they scream about Allah,or G-d shows they really do not seem to get it.

Also,as I said about the planet.The Lord gave us "dominion"over it,from my understanding that doesn't mean,trample on,ruin,use every resource selfishly &foolishly ,exploit &mistreat other creatures just b/c you are smarter than them.I always believed it means ruling wisely and well.If you are not an atheist then obviously all the creatures of earth,sea and sky were put here,or evolved here same as us,and have just as much moral and ethical right to be here as us(and we're crowding them out too much already.

Once again I apologize for going off.I'm just trying to clarify my point,(and I can't always seem to do so succintly )and ask others of theirs.
As it seems to me that most of the posters here are fairly intelligent.

Have a good night

KittyBootz

Posted by: KittyBootz at February 22, 2008 10:04 PM

When it comes to fears about a terrorist attack, people in the U.S. usually focus on Osama bin Laden and foreign-based radical groups. Yet researchers say domestic extremists who commit violence in the name of their cause — abortion or the environment, for example
...................................................

This last example is even sillier. Now please note, I am no defender of groups that threaten harm and destroy property. But eco-terrorists, to my knowledge, have never killed anyone. For the AP to cite these groups as a bigger threat than jihadists is just ludicrous.

Posted by: gravenimage at February 23, 2008 12:38 AM