It's time to see on which side people like Red Ken are. Are they on the side of consensual hygienic rules and public health, or on the side of 7th century desert laws?

I can't wait to hear what the multiculturalists have to say.

Some students have said that they would prefer to quit the course rather than expose their arms

Good! Problem solved then. If you can't follow normal rules of hygiene, then you have no place working in a hospital.

but hygiene experts said no exceptions should be made on religious grounds.

Islamophobes!!

Posted by: Crusader at February 28, 2008 8:57 AM

"Some students have said that they would prefer to quit the course rather than expose their arms."

Good. Then let them quit, with no refunds and no appeals. And then when they file a suit against the hospital we'll see how much political correctness counts when it comes to the judge considering his and his family's health on the line because of it.

In fighting the back-ass-ward-ness of Islam you just have to find the right nerve that regular folks won't tolerate Muslims jumping on, and this one just might be it.

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at February 28, 2008 8:57 AM

Quick medical quiz folks: we CANNOT see microbes or Allah yet only one can kill or complicate your life, the other is a myth.
Seriously though, expel the Muslim students. If they are more concerned about their faith than medical hygene, they need to leave. There IS no negotiating with infectious pathogens, they're either stopped dead in their tracks or they infest. That goes for both the barbarian Islamic culture AND infectious disease.

Multiculturalism my ass.

Posted by: Quantum Infidel at February 28, 2008 8:58 AM

Well, when it comes to a choice between Islam, or following some common-sense rules that benefit all...

That UK health officials are entertaining such pernicious puerility for even one second, having 'crisis talks' (what crisis? who and what are causing this 'crisis'?) with people who hold such outrageous beliefs, is yet one more indication (no more are needed) of how far down the drain the UK really is.

Posted by: Dane at February 28, 2008 9:06 AM

I think Muslims went too far on this one. I am sure that some Muslims leaders are phoning these girls and tell them to chill.

oh, and I am sure that some islamic cleric will unearth an obscure hadith that "allows" women to wash their arms for public health reasons.

But notice, that hadith will only apear AFTER the public opinion rolls itself greatly against these unhigyenic Islamic women.

Posted by: Crusader at February 28, 2008 9:09 AM

"There IS no negotiating with infectious pathogens, they're either stopped dead in their tracks or they infest. That goes for both the barbarian Islamic culture AND infectious disease."

Good one, Quantum Infidel!

Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at February 28, 2008 9:12 AM

Women medical students at Alder Hey children's hospital in Liverpool objected to rolling up their sleeves when washing their hands and removing arm coverings in theatre, claiming it is regarded as immodest.

I wonder if this is the common practice of hospitals in muslim countries? Do they skip this step out of "modesty" in eqypt? syria? saudi arabia? jordan? etc...

Could this be another form of mini-rebellion against English/Western culture and practices? Is this another way to start a fight and make English society submit in a small way to islam?

It seems like more is at play than concerns over modesty.

Posted by: adobe at February 28, 2008 9:27 AM

Remimd me never to go to a muslim hospital.

YUCK!

Posted by: Crusader at February 28, 2008 9:46 AM

Don't UK hospitals risk losing accreditation? Having spoken with nurses about this topic, they wonder if the UK hospitals are inspected by accrediting institutions. American hospitals risk losing accreditation if government mandated health regulations aren't followed. If a hospital loses accreditation, it may no longer be qualified for insurance. In today's litigious society, no hospital could afford such risks.

Why would anyone patronize a hospital where a minority dictates policy that endangers the well being of the remaining population?

These politically pious believers must be told it's a choice between their piety and their career.

Posted by: justamomof4 at February 28, 2008 10:06 AM

Nobody seems to be mentioning just how absurd the idea that uncovering your arms to the elbow is immodest.
Isn't that, well just pathetic. Doesn't it expose what a neurotic, uptight, ludicrous set of rules Islam is.
Shouldn't our politicians and medical men be pointing this out. Say publically that they are just being, well, pathetic?

Posted by: Ian at February 28, 2008 10:49 AM

I can see why Islamic "republics" have higher death rates..............
Keep your primitive "religious" superstitions! By the way, why do they want to come to the west for medical treatment? Just asking...

Posted by: tanstaafl at February 28, 2008 11:11 AM

Two words: FIRE THEM

Posted by: RalphInfidel at February 28, 2008 12:30 PM

Tanstaafl: I don't think you'd have to worry about these women being doctors in Islamic republics ... they're not allowed to work there.

Posted by: Lori B. at February 28, 2008 12:43 PM

Is sex all these people can think about? As if every man is out to see some Muslim woman's arms and get aroused by it! It's ridiculous, and it is what happens when you put head-to-toe sacks over women.

Posted by: TS at February 28, 2008 1:02 PM

As a member of the Associated Professionals in Infection Control, I say that any medical student or resident who refuses to perform hand hygiene needs to be disciplined and removed from medicine if the discipline doesn't work.

Infections kill thousands of Americans annually, and "political correctness" has run completely amuk when people's safety and right to safe care can be compromised to please the Muslims.

The Joint Commission accreditation organization requires hand hygiene as well. Patients in our hospital and home care agency are encouraged to report staff who don't wash. Are patients supposed to check if the staff member is Muslim first, and then excuse the lack of cleanliness out of "multiculturalism"?

I wonder if the Brits' problem is that they don't pay enough to make medicine attractive to the native-born, so they import many students and doctors from the Middle East and Pakistan(excuse me, South Asia).

Posted by: NavyMom at February 28, 2008 1:52 PM

NavyMom

Infections kill thousands of Americans annually,

Now I see their logic

Posted by: Shiva at February 28, 2008 3:34 PM

Health officials are having crisis talks with Muslim medical staff who have objected to hospital hygiene rules because of religious beliefs.

One wishes those "crisis talks" went something like this:

"There's the sink. There's the door. Your choice."

Posted by: special_guest at February 28, 2008 4:13 PM

From the article: "but hygiene experts said no exceptions should be made on religious grounds."

The had to get a "hygiene expert" to confirm that being a Muslim does not, in fact, mean that someone's unwashed arms can't harbour nasty micro-organisms that could kill people?

Educational levels in Britain really have gone down the tubes.

Posted by: angloirishslav at February 28, 2008 5:32 PM

Don't UK hospitals risk losing accreditation?
Posted by: justamomof4

Don't forget that the U.K. has socialized medicine and that most hospitals are government-run ones. So that the accreditor and accreditee are the same organization. Also note that there are no states in the U.K., and that localities have little power, so there is no question of a state or local hospital or clinic being subject to a federal audit or examination, like in the U.S.

Posted by: ebonystone at February 28, 2008 7:37 PM

This "situation" is so ridiculous it's difficult to summon appropriate words for comment.

I like special_guest's proposed response.

"There's the sink. There's the door. Your choice."

No debate even required.

Posted by: Eastview at February 28, 2008 7:48 PM

The UK is un-islamic.

Posted by: interestinconundrum at February 28, 2008 8:41 PM

Patients will be able to demand that they are not treated by any muslims unless the muslims involved have signed an agreement to wash properly. Hospitals that allow muslims to get away with this will be subjecting themselves to huge legal liability.

Posted by: Obelisk1 at February 28, 2008 9:42 PM

Are there Muslim sharia laws about how a Muslim woman is to blow her nose, chew gum, or sneeze?

Posted by: Johnathan at February 29, 2008 12:58 AM

Are there any Muslim vetinarians, and do they roll up their sleeves when treating pregnant animals?

Posted by: meekee at February 29, 2008 4:39 AM

Two options here, Either they ditch the pathetic students or they change thier religion. Its as simple as that.

Posted by: OLDEngland at February 29, 2008 6:49 AM

Cleanliness is un-islamic.

Posted by: DukeOrange at February 29, 2008 2:30 PM

You all might want to have a look here:

Superbug deaths soar in England and Wales

The number of deaths linked with hospital superbug Clostridium difficile has soared in England and Wales, figures from the Office for National Statistics show.

Between 2005 and 2006 the number of death certificates which mentioned the infection rose by 72 per cent to 6,480. Elderly people were most at risk from the bacteria, which caused more than 55,000 infections in NHS hospitals last year.

It is thought that some of the increase may be due to more complete reporting on death certificates, but there has been a fiftyfold increase in C. difficile infections since 1990. ...

and further down,

... Brian Duerden, chief microbiologist at the Department of Health, said that ministers called for more accurate reporting of infections such as MRSA and C. difficile on death certificates in 2005.

“These statistics from 2006 show that this move has worked and our figures are now in line with other developed countries,” he said.

“Since 2006 we have taken significant steps to tackle infections. These include stringent hand-washing guidance for the NHS, a bare below-the-elbows dress code, putting matrons back in charge of cleanliness on their wards and an ongoing deep clean of every ward.”

I wonder if there's some relation. Hmmmm...

Posted by: joeblough at February 29, 2008 5:01 PM