It's the same song with car and homeowners insurance. Car insurance is allowed only when state law requires it. Some Muslims may still refuse to have car insurance. Those of you who live in high Muslim density areas, make sure you have the uninsured motorist option.

http://www.islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=15243

Homeowner's insurance:
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2352&ln=eng&txt=insurance

This one is interesting:
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=2352&ln=eng&txt=insurance

Apparently, if someone receives compensation that is more than they have paid in the premiums, then the excess is owed to charity. Sure, they'll make the charitable contributions.

Posted by: Pelayo at April 6, 2008 3:56 PM

By the same token, I suppose vaccination is also prohibited. After that, not too long before all medical treatment is also "haram". Wait long enough and the Moslem population will solve it's own population problem. Seems the religion that started in the 7th century has not progressed since then.

Posted by: kenprice at April 6, 2008 7:00 PM

kenprice,

Here's a start:

http://news.google.com/news?svnum=10&as_scoring=n&hl=en&tab=wn&ned=us&aq=f&aq=f&aq=f&q=polio+muslim&btnG=Search

Posted by: Aiken Bryce at April 6, 2008 7:18 PM

"Could this turn Hillary into an anti-jihadist?"
-- from a posting above

At this point, Obama -- whom if we are to judge (and by what else can we judge him, since his record is so thin?) not ony by his spiritual advisor and mentor, Rev. Wright, but also by his good friend and, in some ways, a figure akin to Obama in his articulate presentation of self, Deval Patrick, the governor of Massachusetts, whose behavior and failures in office have greatly disappointed his most ardent supporters, not least his plan for dealing with budgetary shortfalls, which has been to construct three (!) casinoes, in an over-casinoed area of the country, not only a clear assault on the poor, but full of rosy and wildly exaggerated estimates of potential state revenues from such a venture.

And if Wright and Patrick are the only guides we have to Obama in domestic policy and views, in foreign policy we have heard such names as Brzezinski (whom he still consults), Samantha Powers (who just like Nicholas Kristof made her career deplorign genocide in the Sudan, but has yet to understand that in the Sudan what is at play is not motiveless malignity, but rather Arab supremacism, the supremacism for which Islam has always been a vehicle, and it is this that not only explains the Janjaweed backed to the hilt by the government, but it is also Islam that explains the much longer and much more murderous campaign against Christians and animists in the southern Sudan, over the past 20 years.

And with McCain disastrously nailing his colors to the mast that Bush erected -- the bringing of "democracy" to Iraq, and toys and good things to eat to all the Muslim boys and girls on the other side of the moountain, which is Bush's confused idea as to how to win unwinnable hearts and minds, and how to best deal with Islam -- and even talking about long-term military commitments as the way to "defeat" (there is no such thing as "defeat" here: there is only the possiblity of successful containment of Islam and of Muslims, especially in the threatened Western world) those who conduct what McCain still calls the "war on terror."

The most calculating, and the least sentimental, of the three candidates, is Hillary Clinton. In dealing with Islam, those are good qualities to possess, even if they may not make one loved or even greatly admired. Objectively, the prompt removal of American forces from Iraq, even if it is done under cover of some such reason as "at this point the Iraqis are going to have to reconcile, if they can, with each other, and the best way to do that is to have the various sides no longer count on the Americans to settle scores for them, or to rely on American soldiers to fight and die because this faction, or that, manages to convince the Americans that it "represents the Iraqis."

Hillary Clinton no doubt knows that violence, probably low-level but continuous, will not stop but continue after an American withdrawal, and it doesn't bother her. And that is good. Whether or not she is clever enough to jettison such advisors as Madeline Albright, and of course the egregious Samuel Berger -- two people who know nothing about Islam (see Albright's latest book, in which she attempts to demonstrate exactly the opposite)--and to instead see if Holbrook can get beyond his initial encounter with Islam, in the atypical setting of the Balkans, with atypical Muslims and a highly unusual situation where, for Holbrook, they seemed to be the victims (and he may have learned more, learned about the centuries of Ottoman rule, learned about the devshirme, and Serbian worries, and what Izetbegovic threatened -- to imopse the Shari'a --if he has been reading up, as he should have been, on Islam), is another question.

But as of now, what she seems to intend would, objectively, further most the Infidel cause. If, on the other hand, McCain gets rid of the kagans and kristols, and comes to his senses, and dispenses with that sentimental streak, and also learns that "war" is not always fought through military means -- a hard lesson for military men to learn, but learn it he must -- then....

Posted by: Hugh at April 6, 2008 7:53 PM

Hugh says,

"But as of now, what she seems to intend would, objectively, further most the Infidel cause."

An interesting premise. You might be correct, but somehow I viewed the title of this article, Health Insuarance (sic) illegal: Islamic body, and the quotes within -- i.e.

"Health insurance schemes have turned a noble service in to a business activity, hence under Islam it is not permitted, they said.

-- to be more in tune with Hillary's liberal and social agenda, that being a health system for all, paid for by all.

Please correct me if I've misunderstood, but don't the insurance companies have the right, in this free-market society, to profit from their business?

How will Hillary's intent "to further the infidel's cause" be realized when her idea concerning health care seemingly falls in line with Islamic "authorities" from India?

Posted by: Aiken Bryce at April 6, 2008 8:27 PM

I was discussing only what she intends to do in Iraq, and what I take to be her refusal to use the phrase "war on terror" or to think of "war" the way, I'm afraid, John McCain still thinks of it. I was not discussing health insurance or health care, or for that matter a promised potential chicken in every promised potential pot.

Posted by: Hugh at April 6, 2008 8:53 PM

Gotcha.

I've always taken the view of the promised "poule au pot" as political bait thrown out to the "potless".

Similar chum is also thrown out by the propa(gators) of Islam and certain intenders to "further most the Infidel cause".

Of course, you already know that.

Posted by: Aiken Bryce at April 6, 2008 9:25 PM

I am surprised to hear this. I hought Muslims would be in favor of health insurance since it is supposed to help the poor, a group of people who Muslims are required to help according to one of the Five Pillars of Islam. If Muslims think that some frms of health insurance ar gambling, I have one question. Are there any Muslim countries that have health insurance plans based on Islamic law? If so, please tell m what countries have such plans.

Posted by: Christian at April 6, 2008 9:37 PM

Muslims worry about the poor only a little more than they worry about orphans. Note the unemployment and poverty in Saudi Arabia.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at April 6, 2008 9:47 PM

The gathering had this too as a way out.

"The Ulema suggested that the community could itself organise services to help in the treatment of poor."

That would be a very good thing to do by them. It will save millions of money for other needy 'Infidels'. Let them 'self annihilate' themselves and this policy should be extended to all 'non-infidel' countries immediately. The whole modern allopathic medicine is 'Haraam' for them. Don't they realise ?.Too late for 7th century 'paigambar' . All the dead ones are rotting in hell fire and fresh ones are following 'History' will record the monumental stupidity and idiocy called 'Islam'.Perish . A record will be there.

Posted by: Kash225 at April 7, 2008 2:04 AM

Hugh

McCain is a personification of everything wrong with our foreign policy - his support to Kosovo, his endorsement of the State Department and his close ties to Powell and Rice, et al. His way is business as usual in Washington - the McCain of today is not the McCain of even 1996 (who was then running Phil Gramm's campaign).

And I see no reason to suspect that Hillary will be any better than Obama. If anything, her record shows that she and her husband are for sale to the highest bidder, which means that Saudi and other Islamic cash will be there to buy them. Much as I have my concerns about Obama re: his ties to Wright, Farrakhan, et al and his participation in the million man march, the only reason I see to support him is so that given the suspicions about him, he'd at least be careful about appearing to be pro-Islamic, and secondly, without McCain as president, anti-Islamic factions within the GOP at least have some chance of recapturing the party in 2010 from those in the party who think that al Qaeda combatants deserve their day in US courts, instead of at Gitmo.

Posted by: Infidel Pride at April 7, 2008 2:38 AM

The TOI published this article today.

http://sheikyermami.com/2008/04/06/india-islamic-clerics-denounce-terrorism-in-all-its-forms/

The editors of the TOI are still unaware of the fact that the islamic meaning of the word "innocent" is "muslim". No kaffir is innocent. He/she is guilty. Of being a kaffir.

Posted by: arjun.sevak at April 7, 2008 5:00 AM

The fact of insurance being unlawful is something which is widely known - it is not lawful in Islam to buy and sell something not knowing whether the product will actually be delivered, or in what form. In the case of health insurance, however, the position of the Indian Fiqh Academy (which appears to be a Deobandi institution and thus probably doesn't represent all the Sunni Muslim scholars in India, let alone anywhere else) is not universal, as Shaikh Nuh Keller told students in the west that he was not willing to call health insurance haraam (presumably he was not talking about countries with a state-funded health service, like the UK), and Shaikh Nuh refers to scholars in the Arab world, particularly Jordan and Syria.

Posted by: Yusuf Smith at April 7, 2008 6:28 AM

"as I have my concerns about Obama re: his ties to Wright, Farrakhan, et al and his participation in the million man march, the only reason I see to support him is so that given the suspicions about him, he'd at least be careful about appearing to be pro-Islamic"
-- from a posting above

A very thin reed.

His record is so thin, but everything we know about his choice of advisers on foreign policy -- Brzezinski, Powers, originally Malory -- and everything we know about his statements, before he began to run for President, and some of them after, do not suggest someone who sees Islam as a threat, but puts a premium on his supposedly fascinating life experience, which includes a brief period in Indonesia. His knowledge of Islam, then, is based on what a child picks up, in a quite unrepresentative Muslim country, where he is unaware -- how could he have been aware? -- of the texts, and tenets, of Islam, but has only memories of fellow children. In this respect Obama's view of Islam (it is he who makes much of his supposedly enriched view of the world, that coms magically from the fact of his parentage, and from a brief period outside the United States, but what one wants is someone who has burned the midnight oil, and it amazes me that he has yet to meet, as would be the obvious thing to do to at least signal that he has put away childish thiings, with Ayaan Hirsi Ali) is as skewed as is that of Paul Wolfowitz, who also "learned about Islam" from his experience in Indonesia, but in somewhat different circumstances -- as ambassador in Jakarta, surrounded by Indonesians eager to please, eager to tell him what they thought he wanted to here.

I presume that Obama attended a quite atypical, English-speaking school in Indonesia, certainly a school that might have been filled with non-Muslims and with the children of diplomats and the foreign elite -- there is nothing in the record to suggest that he ever learned Bahasa Indonesya. A little like an embassy or foreign service's kid who goes to the American School in Kuwait, or Argentina.

His choice of foreign policy advisers, his astounding remarks (in the past) that show a naive sympathy for those conducting the Lesser Jihad against Israel (and a palpable want of sympathy for that permanently beleauguered country, for which he now utters the routine, Jimmy-Carteresque assertions of support that should not relieve, but worry), and his failure to explain just why he was opposed to intervention in Iraq (what made no sense was not the invasion, and given the misinformation that the Administration offered, there was nothing shameful or illegitimate about voting to support the use, if necessary, of military force -- what did make no sense was to remain in Iraq once the regime had been overthrown, and the country scoured for weaponry), for all kinds of people -- Noam Chomsky, Ward Churchill, you name it - were opposed to military action, and so an explanation is needed.

There is so little to go on with Obama. It has become a cult of personality, or an expression, mainly, of people trying to prove how wonderful they are by voting for him. A Presidential election as a homework assignment, willingly assumed by all those -- and there are so many in America doing so -- who are getting their degrees in Self-Esteem Studies.

The thin reed to which you cling -- that Obama will have to demonstrate his bonafides, relieve worries about his understanding of Islam -- is one which I would like to share, but don't.

And I don't thing there is anything about him to suggest that he feels keenly that the most important matter today is to protect the states and peoples of Western Europe from the effects of Da'wa, the Money Weapon, and above all, demographic conquest. I don't think he thinks about "the West" or its civilization. He likes to think about other things. That's a danger.

Besides, there are fantastic problems looming. The march of Islam, and the instruments of Jihad that go beyond, are much more effective than, outright violence-- either of qitaal or combat as we understand that word, or of terrorism. The economic decline of the United States. The rise of China as a potential threat to other countries in Asia, and to countries outside of Asia. Anthropogenic climate change that at this point cannot be avoided, is already well underway, and that in the next century will lead to many things, including inexorable rises in sea levels that will threaten lower Manhattan, Shanghai, much of Bangladesh, many islands, and to all kinds of changes in agriculture, and also to the likely disappearance of 90% of the world's species. This whole exaggerated attention to the supposed problem of "race" and the desire of some to prove that "we" (Americans) can "get beyond it" by voting for Barack Obama, siimply is not, in the scheme of things as they now present themselves, inappropriate at this time, with all kinds of catastrophes looming, for the United States, for the West, for the entire world.

Posted by: Hugh at April 7, 2008 7:23 AM

One more thing. Jimmy Carter, following on the lead of Lee Hamilton, will no doubt endorse Barack Obama. These are endorsements that, if they were sought by the candidate, should give anyone pause.

Posted by: Hugh at April 7, 2008 7:27 AM

By all means. But no insurance, and you'll have to pay cash. Or (I'm thinking of socialist countries) they might not even treat you.

That would be such a shame.

Posted by: tanstaafl at April 7, 2008 10:59 AM

A colleague who worked for years in Saudi Arabia told me that Muslim drivers there consider wearing a seat belt to be an insult to Allah. You see, Allah is protecting them, so by wearing a seat belt they are not trusting him. This insurance thing sounds to have the same basis to me, the bit about gambling seems to be a smoke screen.

Posted by: Paul at April 8, 2008 2:45 PM