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Recently I wrote about the Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA) in Minneapolis, which appears to be an Islamic academy that receives public funding. I depended for my information largely on the work of the indefatigable and courageous journalist Katherine Kersten, who now has new information about this school.
"Teacher breaks wall of silence at state's Muslim public school," by Katherine Kersten for the Star Tribune (thanks to all who sent this in):
...TIZA has many characteristics that suggest a religious school. It shares the headquarters building of the Muslim American Society of Minnesota, whose mission is "establishing Islam in Minnesota." The building also houses a mosque. TIZA's executive director, Asad Zaman, is a Muslim imam, or religious leader, and its sponsor is an organization called Islamic Relief.Students pray daily, the cafeteria serves halal food - permissible under Islamic law -- and "Islamic Studies" is offered at the end of the school day.
Zaman maintains that TIZA is not a religious school. He declined, however, to allow me to visit the school to see for myself, "due to the hectic schedule for statewide testing." But after I e-mailed him that the Minnesota Department of Education had told me that testing would not begin for several weeks, Zaman did not respond -- even to urgent calls and e-mails seeking comment before my first column on TIZA.
Now, however, an eyewitness has stepped forward. Amanda Getz of Bloomington is a substitute teacher. She worked as a substitute in two fifth-grade classrooms at TIZA on Friday, March 14. Her experience suggests that school-sponsored religious activity plays an integral role at TIZA.
Arriving on a Friday, the Muslim holy day, she says she was told that the day's schedule included a "school assembly" in the gym after lunch.
Before the assembly, she says she was told, her duties would include taking her fifth-grade students to the bathroom, four at a time, to perform "their ritual washing."
Afterward, Getz said, "teachers led the kids into the gym, where a man dressed in white with a white cap, who had been at the school all day," was preparing to lead prayer. Beside him, another man "was prostrating himself in prayer on a carpet as the students entered."
"The prayer I saw was not voluntary," Getz said. "The kids were corralled by adults and required to go to the assembly where prayer occurred."
Islamic Studies was also incorporated into the school day. "When I arrived, I was told 'after school we have Islamic Studies,' and I might have to stay for hall duty," Getz said. "The teachers had written assignments on the blackboard for classes like math and social studies. Islamic Studies was the last one -- the board said the kids were studying the Qu'ran. The students were told to copy it into their planner, along with everything else. That gave me the impression that Islamic Studies was a subject like any other."
After school, Getz's fifth-graders stayed in their classroom and the man in white who had led prayer in the gym came in to teach Islamic Studies. TIZA has in effect extended the school day -- buses leave only after Islamic Studies is over. Getz did not see evidence of other extra-curricular activity, except for a group of small children playing outside. Significantly, 77 percent of TIZA parents say that their "main reason for choosing TIZA ... was because of after-school programs conducted by various non-profit organizations at the end of the school period in the school building," according to a TIZA report. TIZA may be the only school in Minnesota with this distinction.
Why does the Minnesota Department of Education allow this sort of religious activity at a public school? According to Zaman, the department inspects TIZA regularly -- and has done so "numerous times" -- to ensure that it is not a religious school.
But the department's records document only three site visits to TIZA in five years -- two in 2003-04 and one in 2007, according to Assistant Commissioner Morgan Brown. None of the visits focused specifically on religious practices. [...]
TIZA is now being held up as a national model for a new kind of charter school. If it passes legal muster, Minnesota taxpayers may soon find themselves footing the bill for a separate system of education for Muslims.
Indeed. Read it all.
Posted by Robert at April 9, 2008 8:03 AM
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Where is the ACLU?
Posted by: Elric66![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at April 9, 2008 8:41 AM
Students are dismissed early on Friday to attend the religious assembly, so it didn't count as actual school time.
So are they meeting the minimum number of school hours per year if they dismiss early every Friday?
This needs an undercover investigation.
Posted by: Borg at April 9, 2008 8:42 AM
Where is the ACLU?
Posted by: Elric66 at April 9, 2008 8:45 AM
Katherine Kersten and Amanda Getz had better watch their step.
Ellison and the Nation of Islam in Minnesota don't take kindly to infidel obstacles in the way of the rightful supremacy of Islam.
At least one obstacle to Islamic supremacism in Minnesota has been murdered.
http://powerlineblog.com/archives/014415.php
When are the Minnesotans going to wake up to the dangers of Islam to their progressive socialist paradise?
Heck, I'm Australia and can see the danger of Ellison and Islam from the other side of the Pacific.
Posted by: Mike_W at April 9, 2008 9:06 AM
Elric,
I believe the ACLU and the Minnesota Department of Education have started an investigation.
I thought I saw a link to the letter sent to the school by the ACLU, but I can't find it anymore, anywhere.
Odd.
Posted by: awake
at April 9, 2008 9:08 AM
Awake,
I emailed them and got a repsonse in 18 Mar stating they were looking into it. Nothing since then.
Posted by: Elric66 at April 9, 2008 9:19 AM
Kinda violates that separation of church and state thing, don'tcha think?
Of course, there is no separation of mosque and state in Sharia Law. And Allah's law trumps anything those filthy kuffars come up with.
Posted by: tanstaafl at April 9, 2008 9:25 AM
Norm Coleman should make this an issue in his campaign against the unfunny comic.
Posted by: Hugh at April 9, 2008 10:08 AM
awake and Elric66, here is the link.
Posted by: special_guest at April 9, 2008 10:29 AM
Who needs the ACLU? Like the [True] Prophet said, "There are none so blind as those who have eyes and yet will not see." Other Minnesota citizens and taxpayers MUST take these Islamic Islamist Islamizers to court, and stop the state establishment of Islam in public schools now!
Posted by: John C at April 9, 2008 10:46 AM
Wait for an official response, finding, action or inaction. Then SUE THE STATE OF MINNESOTA and this Madrassa for violating the Establishment Clause AND ALSO the Free Excercise Clause on behalf of any non-Muslim staff or students!
Posted by: John C at April 9, 2008 10:57 AM
awake and Elric66, here is the link.
Posted by: special_guest at April 9, 2008 10:29 AM
Thanks much. I knew I saw it somewhere. Funny how I could not get that hit on a google search of JW.
Posted by: awake at April 9, 2008 11:07 AM
Perhaps someone can fill in the background on this isssue? Do the States not partially fund parochial schools that teach the Governments' mandated curriculum?
If parents choose to send their kids to a Catholic school, does the school not receive compensation for doing the work that the Public school system doesn't have to? Isn't that the point of a Charter system?
Isn't there a danger here of throwing the baby out with the fouled water?
I'm not supporting the maddrassas here but I'd hate to see publicly accepted, well run, parochial schools being strangled because of the bad apples.
(This issue perennially comes up in Canada where parochial schools have long been the recipients of Government subsidies. Just to clarify MY pov, I'm an atheist by conviction, but I do recognize the excellence of many of our religious private schools here.)
http://www.ourkids.net/bc-private-schools-british-columbia.php
)
at April 9, 2008 11:10 AM
Where is the outrage that you and I feel? Just where are the zeolous champions of "separation of church and state"? Oh, yeah--I forgot, this is a front for a mosque--must not be the same thing, then, as an accursed, vile, CHURCH, so then, this must all be OK, right?
Posted by: John C at April 9, 2008 11:11 AM
What a couregous reporter Katherine Kersten is! Even though it's few and far between, it is encouraging to see some real journalism.
Could you imagine any reporter in the mainstream media, including FOX, reporting on this????
Those of you waiting on the ACLU to do something, don't hold your breath.....
Posted by: adobe at April 9, 2008 11:26 AM
Posted by: DaninVan at April 9, 2008 11:10 AM
Parochial schools and charter schools are not the same.
Parochial schools do not receive government funding via the taxpayers, whereas charter schools do. Charter schools are an extension of public schools, with modified restrictions and rules which do not include religious indoctrinization.
If they want an Islamic school in Minnesaots, then fine, but let the Saudis or some other private entity fund it.
Posted by: awake at April 9, 2008 11:30 AM
It should be understood that students at such schools have received an education in hatred of the Infidels, have been inculcated in what is akin, save for the number of Believers, to a cult, and that they have been encouraged not to express themselves freely, nor to think, but to be submissive, "slaves of Allah." At every step, free and critical inquiry by the students is discouraged. To prove this one need only offer into evidence the Qur'an, the Hadith (in a collection of one of the most authoritative muhaddithin, Bukhari or Muslim), and the Sira (the biography of Muhammad).
Such students are not fit for admission to any university. Their grades are nearly meaningless. What they have been taught to believe, and what they have been taught to ignore, or to hate -- that is what matters. They should be seen, accurately, as not having sufficient preparation for college, and should not be admitted anywhere.
Posted by: Hugh at April 9, 2008 11:36 AM
I don't know what they do in Canada but this is the US.
Children copying Quranic verses into notebooks during school time. Ritual washing during school time. A cafeteria serving only halal (kosher rip-off) food.
In Missouri, a public school was stopped from using "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you" as a penmanship practice sentence. After all, it is from the Bible.
Is there a dress code at this school? I'd like to see some of the outfits I pass at bus stops every morning show up at this madrassa.
Or a lunch box with a ham sandwich. Maybe a t-shirt showing Saddam hanging from a rope. If this were really a public school, which it obviously is not, this would all be allowed.
at April 9, 2008 11:39 AM
Hugh says
"What they have been taught to believe, and what they have been taught to ignore, or to hate -- that is what matters. They should be seen, accurately, as not having sufficient preparation for college, and should not be admitted anywhere."
Haven't you been to an Ivy League school lately? It's an excellent preparation to be an 'aggrieved and whining Muslim student. And a far as getting in,I think they'd be chosen over much more qualified candidates.
Posted by: poetcomic1 at April 9, 2008 11:42 AM
DaninVan, this varies by state but the gist is this. States can provide services to private schools that are not associated with religious indoctrination. So, a private school can have a school nurse that is paid for by the state. The same goes with busing or a speech therapist. States vary widely on what the do and do not pay for. In some instances local school districts also have a say. The point though is that none of the support can go for the core institution and thus support religious education. Charter schools, as pointed out above, are still government schools but usually have less red tape. It anyone takes this school to court, they will lose and lose badly.
Posted by: Terrahawk at April 9, 2008 11:45 AM
"Haven't you been to an Ivy League school lately?"
Alas, yes.
Posted by: Hugh at April 9, 2008 12:17 PM
awake, I used Yahoo!. ;-)
You can use a hint like this...
site:jihadwatch.org
...as one of the search terms, and it will only search on that site. Very useful, and I think it works on Google too.
Posted by: special_guest at April 9, 2008 12:59 PM
awake said
If they want an Islamic school in Minnesaots, then fine, but let the Saudis or some other private entity fund it.
NO NO NO! Don't let the Saudis fund institutions for promulgating their hatred, intolerance, and racial supremacy, here in our own country. NO NO NO! Do everything possible to END Saudi funding of madrasses here. And END Saudi funding of our politicians' campaigns. And END Saudi ownership of our media. NO NO NO!
Posted by: special_guest at April 9, 2008 1:05 PM
Thanks 'Terrahawk', that's what I wasn't clear on.
We've never really had such a clearly defined (in the past) separation of State from religion up here in Canada. Catholic, and to a lesser degree Protestant, schools and colleges have played a huge role in Canada's history.
Private religious schools still play a prominent role, especially in that they seem to raise the bar for quality of education (up here).
http://vc.bc.ca/
Many non-catholic parents send their kids there because of the rigorous sports and academic programme!
As I indicated in my first post, I was concerned about the potential harm to well established and well recognized schools with religious ties.
Posted by: DaninVan at April 9, 2008 1:21 PM
Posted by: special_guest at April 9, 2008 1:05 PM
Agreed, but as long as the current rules apply and Saudi Arabia is considered our staunch ally and allowed to funnel money into the US to fund their jihad, then let it be forthright and transparent.
Better that way than on the backs of the infidel taxpayers. Let it be clearly identified as an Islamic school.
Regardless, I apologize for the lack of clarification and I agree my statement was a stupid one, in general.
Posted by: awake at April 9, 2008 1:35 PM
Public funding of a Catholic separate school system is guaranteed in Canada under the constitution. This goes right back to the British North America Act of 1867, as it was a mechanism back then to allow French Canadians to maintain their way of life.
So, no, we don't have the strict separation of church and state as in the US. But is this really a bad thing these days? We're not giving public cash to any other religion. And the Catholic system is utilized by a LOT of other Christian families to give their kids a fully publicly-funded Christian education.
I'm not a big holy roller or anything, and am definitely not a Catholic, but I can't take issue with public funding of Christian education in this day and age. The cult of secularism in the US as hammered home by groups like the ACLU is just giving Islam a big opening to move in and take over. With Christian education guaranteed in Canada under the constitution, it's going to be a lot harder for Islam to move into this gulf, because here it doesn't exist.
Posted by: OutOfAqaba at April 9, 2008 1:38 PM
Public funding of a Catholic separate school system is guaranteed in Canada under the constitution. This goes right back to the British North America Act of 1867, as it was a mechanism back then to allow French Canadians to maintain their way of life.
So, no, we don't have the strict separation of church and state as in the US. But is this really a bad thing these days? We're not giving public cash to any other religion. And the Catholic system is utilized by a LOT of other Christian families to give their kids a fully publicly-funded Christian education.
I'm not a big holy roller or anything, and am definitely not a Catholic, but I can't take issue with public funding of Christian education in this day and age. The cult of secularism in the US as hammered home by groups like the ACLU is just giving Islam a big opening to move in and take over. With Christian education guaranteed in Canada under the constitution, it's going to be a lot harder for Islam to move into this gulf, because here it doesn't exist.
Posted by: OutOfAqaba at April 9, 2008 1:42 PM
ACLU, mia?
Posted by: MP at April 9, 2008 1:53 PM
Ahem...Ladies and gentlemen, The Legal Counsel for the Minnesota ACLU is Teresa Nelson. She can be contacted by telephone at 651-645-4097 x122. Her e-mail address is tnelson@aclu-mn.org.
Please join me in bringing this to her attention for further action by her organization.
/that is all
at April 9, 2008 2:11 PM
The ACLU and secular liberals are perfectly content with taxpayers funding a Madrassa since its not Christian parochial school.
Their hatred of religion only extends to Christians not Muslims or any other faith.
And given that the public school system is infested with liberals and multicultural types don't expect them to protest this Madrassa in their midst.
The factor Minnesota being a liberal paradise.
Its the perfect place for Muslims to set up Madrassas.
Expect more of them.
at April 9, 2008 2:37 PM
The ACLU responded already:
RE:
From: Teresa Nelson (tnelson@aclu-mn.org)
Sent: Wed 4/09/08 2:38 PM
Reply-to: tnelson@aclu-mn.org
To:
Thank you for your e-mail. As the end of the article indicates – yes, we are investigating this school. Here is a link to more details on our website:
http://www.aclu-mn.org/home/news/aclumnopensinvestigationof/
Sincerely,
Teresa Nelson
Legal Counsel
ACLU Of Minnesota
450 N. Syndicate St., Suite 325
St. Paul, MN 55104
tnelson@aclu-mn.org
(651) 645-4097 x.122
http://www.aclu-mn.org
at April 9, 2008 3:35 PM
We know about the 18 Mar. We want an update. Great Ill probaly get the same email. How long does it take?
Posted by: Elric66 at April 9, 2008 3:40 PM
I sent an email, thank you for posting the contact information. Pursuant to the information and the copy of the letter the ACLU sent to this publicly funded madrassah, they are only asking that the prayer rug be removed and to stop asking for volunteers to help with Friday prayers.
One would think that the ACLU would also at LEAST investigate the madrassah's curriculum, teacher planning notes, testing procedures and grading system.
The ACLU is 10 feet tall and bullet proof when it comes to attacking other religions, but they are a little paper tiger when up against islam.
Posted by: Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis at April 9, 2008 3:45 PM
Posted by: Elric66 at April 9, 2008 3:40 PM
I got my reply in less than an hour.
at April 9, 2008 3:49 PM
Awake,
maybe Ill get the reply before I leave work. But the reply you got is the same one I got 18 Mar.
Posted by: Elric66 at April 9, 2008 3:51 PM
Awake,
Thats what I asked. I also told them if this had to do with Christianity, they would have been all over it. They probaly didnt like that. :-)
Posted by: Elric66 at April 9, 2008 4:00 PM
A must read for anyone concerned about Islam.
http://www.thepeoplescube.com/red/viewtopic.php?t=521
at April 9, 2008 4:04 PM
"They probaly didnt like that."
Elric,
Nah, everyone knows you make friends even faster than me on the net.
Posted by: awake at April 9, 2008 4:04 PM
Awake, sorry if my "Danger! Danger! Will Robinson!" impersonation went a little overboard.
It creeps me out that we allow them to open another franchise of hatred and intolerance here in our own backyard.
Posted by: special_guest at April 9, 2008 4:25 PM
Posted by: special_guest at April 9, 2008 4:25 PM
An apology was indeed in order, but not by you. In my zeal to clarify school types, I made a most unfortunate statement of concession.
Regards.
Posted by: awake at April 9, 2008 4:35 PM
The ACLU doesn't seem to be interested in religious influence in schools unless it's Christianity that's involved. Anything that furthers the goal of Socialism i.e., the disintegration of American ideals is okay in their eyes. What other criteria could be applied when the deem footbaths and publicly funded mandrasas okay?
Posted by: twoCents at April 9, 2008 5:23 PM
Brilliant strategy: Invade bilad-al-kuffar, make your gracious and naive kuffar hosts dhimmis in their own home countries, and then make them finance your da'wa. Federal and state tax systems now fulfill the role of jizya-collection and redistribution of kuffar wealth to the umma's vanguard.
If kuffar countries were likened to biological organisms, Muslim enclaves like Dearborn, MI and Falls Church, VA would resemble malignant tumors.
Posted by: US_infidel at April 9, 2008 5:32 PM
Here's the reply I got from the ACLU.
On Wed, 4/9/08, Teresa Nelson wrote:
From: Teresa Nelson
Subject: RE: Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA)
To:
Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008, 1:11 PM
Thank you for your e-mail. If you read the whole article, you would have seen that Ms. Kersten mentions the fact that the ACLU-MN is investigating this school. Contrary to what you may have heard, we generally do not go into court unless we have done extensive fact gathering and legal research beforehand. That is what we are doing right now and that process takes time. In addition, we almost always try to resolve matters without litigation if we can. Here is a link to information about our work on this issue:
http://www.aclu-mn.org/home/news/aclumnopensinvestigationof/
Your e-mail does not state whether or not you are a resident of the State of Minnesota. If you are a Minnesota resident, is this a matter in which you are interested in serving as an ACLU-MN plaintiff to challenge this school? If so, I would appreciate your full contact information so that we can keep in touch with you once we have completed our investigation.
Sincerely,
Teresa Nelson
Legal Counsel
ACLU Of Minnesota
450 N. Syndicate St., Suite 325
St. Paul, MN 55104
tnelson@aclu-mn.org
(651) 645-4097 x.122
http://www.aclu-mn.org
at April 9, 2008 5:40 PM
My reply:
Subject: RE: Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy (TIZA)
To: tnelson@aclu-mn.org
Cc: me@glennbeck.com, charles@littlegreenfootballs.com, director@jihadwatch.com, schnittshow@aol.com, Lgreen33594@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, April 9, 2008, 3:04 PM
Dear Ms. Nelson:
Thank you for your prompt reply. I have researched the article written by Ms. Kersten as well as the ACLU website and have also read the letter that was sent to TIZA by the ACLU.
Ms. Kersten's article included additional links, one of which included a list of questions that was sent to the director at TIZA to answer prior to publication of her piece. As you can see, his answers to the questions posed were quite vague and leave much to be desired as a concerned citizen.
The letter from the ACLU seems to allude to a 'request' for the removal of a prayer rug and a 'request' for TIZA to cease and descist its recruiting volunteers for "Friday prayers".
Will the ACLU look into the school's curriculum, teacher planning notes/books, testing procedures and results, and the grades for state aptitude tests? Will the ACLU look into student segregation by gender in classrooms and prayer rooms in a public school? Will the ACLU focus on TIZA as closely as they have focused on innocuous groups such as the Boy Scouts of America?
I personally respect the work of the ACLU, and fully trust that this case will be given priority attention. Many will anticipate the publication of the reply from the Imam at TIZA to your March 18, 2008 letter/inquiry. One would hope that after three weeks, the ACLU would have at least received an acknowledgment from TIZA.
Again, thank you for looking into this issue.
at April 9, 2008 6:05 PM
http://www.bsalegal.org/downloads/War_on_Scouts.pdf
This is the standard to which the ACLU should be held.
Posted by: Laughs_at_Silly_Jihadis at April 9, 2008 6:12 PM
"The building also houses a mosque. TIZA's executive director, Asad Zaman, is a Muslim imam, or religious leader, and its sponsor is an organization called *Islamic Relief*"
According to research of Debbie Schlussel,- http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2008/04/islamic_minneso.html#comments - Islamic Relief is Hamas run charity.
at April 9, 2008 8:33 PM
As a privately funded religious school - what they do in regard to religious practice is their business - just like a privately funded Catholic school, but this - being funded by tax-payers monies is wrong!
Where is the ACLU!
This needs to be shut down NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Monkeywho at April 9, 2008 10:26 PM
I noticed that the main page of the Academy's website states that they offer "tuition free education to all students".
I'm thinking that the government funding does not cover much of the expenses. So.... who is paying for this? My guess would be the Saudis; what a great way to convert peoples children. Offer "excellent" education in a private school type setting and give it to them for free. Hmmmmmmmm
Posted by: Chewchy at April 9, 2008 11:09 PM
I've fired off my letter of protest to Minnesota Governor Tim Pawlenty.
Have you?
http://www.governor.state.mn.us/contacts/index.htm
Posted by: Ernest T Bass
at April 10, 2008 7:18 AM
Keep the Saudi's faaaaaaaaar away.
The Madrasses every where are funded by the Saudi's.
Are they winning again with one footstep forward and us going one step back.
Lived for 2 years in a Moslim country and that was enough for me.
Good Luck too all.
at April 10, 2008 7:39 AM
Keep the Saudi's faaaaaaaaar away.
The Madrasses every where are funded by the Saudi's.
Are they winning again with one footstep forward and us going one step back.
Lived for 2 years in a Moslim country and that was enough for me.
Good Luck too all.
at April 10, 2008 7:39 AM
At least they are aware that it is an Islamic School. In some other states, they build school with a name like "Pleasant View school"and nobody in the city knows it is an islamic school.
It is time for each of us to wake up and look aroung us what is going on.....
at April 10, 2008 9:35 AM
Why are we always on the defensive these days?
Christian and Jewish school organizers should be planning right now to open as many schools as possible in Minnesota and applying for the same taxpayer aid that Muslim schools are receiving.
It's time for a government showdown on this spreading of sharia in America. Either taxpayer funds will be cut off to Islamic schools, or ALL religious groups will be afforded the same taxpayer money for their schools and offset the indoctrination of hate that is disguised as classroom teaching in Islamic schools.
Let's take advantage of the situation, get on the offensive and JUST DO IT !!!!!!
Posted by: Aunty Dhimmi <>< at April 10, 2008 12:01 PM
Apparently, they don't know how to operate a flagpole either.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/10/tiza-headmaster-were-too-incompetent-to-operate-a-flagpole/
Posted by: awake at April 10, 2008 12:24 PM
UPDATE: http://kstp.com/article/stories/S408718.shtml?cat=1 They have learned how to raise a flag consistant with state law on flags at public schools, however their attorneys insist that charter schools do not have to fly a flag. The school director says "We want to make good American citizens".
The article also states that the American Civil Liberties Union is looking into the situation but cannot act unless and until someone files an official complaint.
There is also a link on the station's homepage to the Islamic Relief USA. I wish the reporters would do some follow up investigating of that org. Their website is pure fluff.
Posted by: Shakey_Premise at April 10, 2008 11:43 PM
"Your e-mail does not state whether or not you are a resident of the State of Minnesota. If you are a Minnesota resident, is this a matter in which you are interested in serving as an ACLU-MN plaintiff to challenge this school?"
This is the part of the ACLU-MN response that gets me. Don't these ACLU-MN lawyers live in Minnesota? Don't they have a vested interest in this matter as individual citizens? Can't one of them hire one of their co-workers and proceed with the case?
Posted by: Rick at April 11, 2008 12:04 PM
There are lots of MN residents on this board. Contact the ACLU and offer to be a plaintiff!
Posted by: CGW at April 11, 2008 12:22 PM
Or are we afraid? Guys?
Posted by: CGW at April 11, 2008 12:23 PM
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