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"There are people who think the clash of civilizations is inevitable. But I reject this idea very strongly."
And apparently the way to avoid that clash is to pretend the differences don't exist, and surrender. "Islam, terrorism not linked, says top EU official," from The Peninsula:
Doha - The European Parliament is highly critical of those who equate Islam with terrorism, its President said here yesterday.
"I will not accept this and we in the European Parliament do not accept that Islam and terrorism are identified as the same thing. We don't believe in this idea and we reject this idea," Hans-Gert Pottering, who is here on an official visit to Qatar, told a news conference.
A sloppy statement on so many levels. Obviously, a belief system and a tactic (terrorism) are not the same thing. But that's not to say open-ended commands to wage war against unbelievers are not contained in that belief system, or don't pose a serious problem for Western nations and cultures. Then there's the imprecision of the term "terrorism," as opposed to armed jihad and all other forms of campaigns to overthrow non-Islamic govenments and subjugate non-believers. But we're not supposed to talk about that.
He said the European Parliament rejected statements, pictures or descriptions that identify violence and terrorism with Muslim beliefs.
Referring to the controversial Dutch MP Geert Wilders' anti-Islam film Fitna, Pottering said: "I express my opposition to this film and the same thing with the Danish cartoons."
"We in Europe are committed to the freedom of the press, on the one hand, but on the other the media should develop a sort of self responsibility. They should always know the consequences of what they publish about other cultures," he said.
"We should respect others' beliefs and our relations should be based on mutual tolerance."
He commended the opening of a church in Qatar, saying this is something he understands as tolerance.
Pottering said 2008 is the European Year of Inter-Cultural Dialogue. "I deeply believe that understanding between the Arab world and Europe is very important for our common future," he said.
"There are people who think the clash of civilizations is inevitable. But I reject this idea very strongly. I believe it is our moral and political obligation to work for partnership, peace and understanding."
Posted by Marisol at April 14, 2008 12:41 AM
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I don't suppose he realises the irony that the construction of ONE church in an islamic country is itself newsworthy?
Hermann Goering helped a couple of elderly Jewish ladies escape from Nazi Germany in the 1930's with all their possessions. It was an act of kindness. Didn't quite make up for the rest of what happened though.
Posted by: Celsius![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at April 14, 2008 3:12 AM
Wow. He really *does* want to ban the Quran, Hadith and Sirat!
That just might be a good move. Not? Oh, not what he meant..?
Ingnorant bum. I'll send him a copy of "What The West Needs to Know".
Anyway, what we are seeing here is another piece of what I call "The Totalitarian Temptation" - that those in power have the option to regulate every bit and detail of society, remove everything that looks dangerous, and eventually put down every kind of dissent. Power is deeply corrossive, in particular for those who have more than they deserve.
Since the European Union is now larger than the United States of America, incompetence is a worse problem than ever. We simply don't have persons to fill in these positions adequately.
Posted by: Henrik at April 14, 2008 3:48 AM
These increasingly vocal protestations about Islam NOT being equated with violence simply mean that efforts on the part of Geert Wilders and others, including the that of many bloggers such as Robert Spencer, are starting to have an effect.
Recall the four phases of conflict:
1. First they ignore you
2. Then they laugh at you
3. Then they fight you
4. Then you win.
We're somewhere between the second and third steps. The thing to do is ratchet up the pressure still higher, and not just on the Jihadis, but also on our politicians. They can't ignore the elephant in the room forever.
Posted by: Eastview at April 14, 2008 4:50 AM
"I will not accept this and we in the European Parliament do not accept that Islam and terrorism are identified as the same thing. We don't believe in this idea and we reject this idea," Hans-Gert Pottering, who is here on an official visit to Qatar, told a news conference.
Well Hans, it doesn't really matter what you believe; because those waging war against us do believe that terrorism is a religiously justified tactic.
"We in Europe are committed to the freedom of the press, on the one hand, but on the other the media should develop a sort of self responsibility. They should always know the consequences of what they publish about other cultures," he said.
We will either have freedom of the press or we won't. Apparently it is your take that we won't.
"There are people who think the clash of civilizations is inevitable. But I reject this idea very strongly. I believe it is our moral and political obligation to work for partnership, peace and understanding."
Yet not a word about freedom and constitutional, democratic government. I guess it's too much to expect something along the lines of:
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty."
--John F. Kennedy
Go ahead and cave in if you must Hans, just don't expect everyone else to follow you down.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
--Benjamin Franklin
at April 14, 2008 6:10 AM
RalphInfidel, totally agree.
Hans-Gert Pottering has already proved himself to be anti-democratic in the way he blocked any debate on the Lisbon Treaty in the European Parliment where he actually ignored the rules of the parliment. So his understanding of open-expression is likely to come out of the hand books of Hitler and Stalin who are his peers.
Posted by: Daffersd at April 14, 2008 6:30 AM
I spent most of yesterday 'pottering' around in my garden....this chap brings a new meaning to the expression!
Posted by: grobari at April 14, 2008 6:40 AM
"There are people who think the clash of civilizations is inevitable. But I reject this idea very strongly."
- from the article
He's absolutely correct of course.
It is an impossibility: a clash of civilizations requires two civilizations".
at April 14, 2008 8:57 AM
"They should always know the consequences of what they publish about other cultures," The pill being self censorship. This is the very thing being pushed in Canada. The leftards praise their precious freedom of speech but with limits on it. Just ask Ezra Levant or Mark Steyn.
Posted by: Sounder at April 14, 2008 9:01 AM
14/04/08
As a Hindu from India and with an experience of one thousand years and with 200 million muslims, my advice to the West is dissolve the EU. At least earlier you had a country and culture to defend; EU has made Europe an anonymous entity.
Posted by: Thiagan at April 14, 2008 9:04 AM
Good. Now they can start using this mandate to deport every fire-branded muslim preacher from Europe. Right?
Posted by: Jimmy the Dhimmi at April 14, 2008 9:21 AM
Someone needs to ask Hans, what about the terrorists themselves who link terrorism and Islam? What about when they saw off an infidel's head while screaming Allahu Akbar? Isn't that linking terror and Islam? What about when they fly planes into buildings, or blow up subways or buses while screaming Allahu Akbar? Is that not linking terror and Islam? Hans, we are only responding to what we see, and what we see are Islamic terrorists who are linking and identifying terror with Islam.
Someone then needs to tell Hans, we are in the unfortunate position we are in with radical Islam because we failed to *listen* to them when they declared war on us in 1998. Actually, though, they undertook many ACTS of war in the decades previous to 1998 when they actually DECLARED war, but Hans, I think you can see where I'm going with this. We need to listen to them, these Muslims who link terror with Islam. We ignored their explicit words to us once to our peril. We ignore them again, in the here and now when they are screaming and plotting for our subjugation and death, and this time they might just finish the job. Hans, we at DW are listening; you are not.
Posted by: JenBee at April 14, 2008 9:22 AM
"I believe it is our moral and political obligation to work for partnership, peace and understanding".
Dream on.
Islam has no partners and the only peace you will get is when you understand you are dhimmi and pay jizya, or else.
And the "or else" is not going to be pleasant at all.
Also, "Mutual tolerance", with respect to infidels, is not an expression you will find in any of the religious texts.
Posted by: Dsinc at April 14, 2008 9:25 AM
Hans-Gert Pottering is a dhimmi-elite who should be ousted - hounded out of office - and out of the Western -non-islamic worlds.
He, et al like this dhimmi, is a main part of the problem confronting Western Civilization: islam and its dhimmi-elite enablers.
at April 14, 2008 9:48 AM
Ostriches With Heads In Sand - OWHIS instead of EU.
Posted by: tanstaafl at April 14, 2008 10:02 AM
How do Hans-Gert Puttering and Geert Wilders get along???
Would be nice to hear a debate on this issue between these two or with women who want te leave the misserable lives they have.
You are in La-laland Hans.
The muslims who are calling you 'Cheesehead' love it when you are making these kind of statements.
at April 14, 2008 10:22 AM
"I will not accept this and we in the European Parliament do not accept that Islam and terrorism are identified as the same thing. We don't believe in this idea and we reject this idea,"
Hans-Gert Pottering
First off Hans; it is not an idea, it is an ideology that has governed Islamic thinking for 1,400 years.
Open up the Quran, before you open up your dhimmi mouth . Unfortunately there are way to many politicians who simply don't have a clue about Islam and yet their citizenry are forced to accept them as their voices. There should be a requirment that politicians demonstrate a clear knowledge of Islamic jihadist ideology before they are voted into office (pipe dream of course).
Posted by: Mackie at April 14, 2008 11:48 AM
Let this guy reject THIS : "I have been made victorious through terror"--al-lah in the Kuran.
We see here that al-lah itself advocates and employs terrrorism against humans.
It would seem that the Euros are now so desperate for Islam to 'not hurt them' that they are willing to overlook and discount Islam's source material itself(which conclusively PROVES that Islam is homicidal and malignant) to convince themselves that Islam is benign (when deep down they must know full well that its's not).
North Americans aren't far enough behind.
Posted by: pythagoras at April 14, 2008 12:50 PM
Where does this idiot get his notions?
"We should respect others' beliefs and our relations should be based on mutual tolerance."
?? WHY should we respect others' beliefs when those beliefs are hostile to our very survival?? WHY should we have to "tolerate" a culture that wants to obliterate us and rule the world according to the dictates of a 7th century megalomaniac??
"There are people who think the clash of civilizations is inevitable. But I reject this idea very strongly... "
?? So this dude rejects the idea of a clash of civilizations. WHY does he not believe what his own eyes must see?? The "clash" is happening everywhere in Europe that has significant Muslim immigration. He can "reject the idea" all he wants; (hey, he could "reject the idea" that our planet rotates around the sun); that doesn't mean it's not happening...
at April 14, 2008 1:13 PM
Will suicidal E.U. wake up before it is too late.
doubtful.
Posted by: alexon at April 14, 2008 2:21 PM
That is so odd, how could anyone relate Islam to terrorism? Islam is such a peaceful tolerant religion. Excuse me, I have to call the neurologists about my latest set of electro-shock therapy!
Posted by: Dumbo at April 14, 2008 3:18 PM
"Reject the idea very strongly" and, presto, it won't happen. Look the other way, and it will go away. Bow down to your own weakness, and others will respect it. They won't attack you then.
Do civilizations that undertake this adamantly to kill themselves off deserve to survive?
What was the way we used to think the world would end? With a bang? With a whimper? With the Cold War?
The West's longest standing and most implacable enemy has been waiting in the wings since 1683. Their chance has now come, and they know it.
Some of us are grateful for Robert and Hugh. But most people aren't. They just aren't.
Posted by: Novalis at April 14, 2008 3:22 PM
Pottering said 2008 is the European Year of Inter-Cultural Dialogue.
Wasn't it Goring that said when I hear the word culture I want to reach for my gun. When I hear the words Inter-cultural I want to reach for a submachine gun, and when they throw in that meaningless word dialogue get me a gattling gun not those old 19th century ones, but one of those they fit in the noses of warthog airplanes. This is something that I never felt like before, there is a slowly welling anger. I live in the Culturally enriched Netherlands. It gets more than its fair share of criticism from the bleechers over the pond but come and live here and see what support you get if you step out of line. Good old Geert can do what he wants because the Ministers will not call off his protection because if they do they have no moral right to protection themselves. Its called enlightened self interest. Someone like me would get short sharp shift. It doesn't mean that the people are Stupid or Dimmis far from it I live well out into the country in a small hamlet 100% Dutch, but the contempt most of them have for their politicians you could cut with a knife and serve up as pudding. I was in my local cafe at the week end. The Prime Minister wasn't referred too as Balkende but Bakellende roughly translated ( bucket of misery). They see through all this bullshit by there politicians and bottom feeders like Pottering, but they keep quiet and wait, things are steadily changing, there is a definite swing too the right, it is difficult to define and you can only see it when you look at the Gallup polls. Geert would get between 15 and 20 members of parliament if there was an election now up from 9. mainly coming from the other right wing parties at the moment, but wait a year and they will start coming from the left the way the BNP in England is picking up votes from the labor party in Great Britain. It takes a long time to turn round a ship of state and political changes have to gain momentum. When the next election comes expect profound changes. This is happening all over Europe not just here in the Netherlands. This is without the Muslims blotting their copy book by blowing up some train or Metro station. This is something that is inevitable here in Europe. Britain now is stretched thin and says that the Secret service can't keep up with all the islamic plots being hatched. Give it a few more years and it will only take one atrocity and the anal solids will hit the ventilation system and the E.U. will go into serious decline. To me and many here in Europe we see war as inevitable not because we want it but because we don't see how we can avoid it. We face a religion which is God ordained to rule the world and therefore can't compromise. We can't compromise, or we disappear, and there is still too much pride here in Europe to let that happen. A clash therefore seems inevitable, The triumphalist muslims might look on us now as a load of beer swilling hedonists who jump when they say boo but they forget that we are not Sudanese Christians who can be slaughtered at will. We can change in the wink of an eye from the appeasing government of Chamberlain to the determined government of Churchill willing to do what ever was necessary to survive, even to blowing an allies fleet out of the water as we did with the French fleet at Oran. Once it starts it is going to be very bloody and very messy especially as it will resemble the second world war because one side will be fighting for dominance while the other side will be fighting for survival. The only difference is that the side fighting for survival will be better armed and in no mood to compromise. Once it starts it will spread all over Europe the way the last two dust ups did. Don't expect the cobbled solution in Kosova to stand the test of time. The E.U. and the U.S.A. has seriously pissed off the Serbs, you can bet your live they are waiting for revenge when they get the chance. Pottering and his ilk have lost the thread, they are Utopians who see what they want to see and not the reality. They believe in a fairytale which begins Once upon a time Europe had a dream of Uniting all of Europe, and when they did they all lived happily every after. They do not understand that Europe faces an existentialist threat and they don't want to understand because if it did it would puncture their Utopian bubble. They do not understand that when the fighting spreads no country is going to send troops to another country when they have serious disturbances, at home and all the bleating from Brussels will be to no avail. They do not understand that when the balloon does go up they will be relegated to a very minor footnote in the pages of history, the way Chamberlain and the League of Nations were, and it will all happen in the blink of an eye. In the mean time the alienation of the people of Europe from there governments slowly continues, and the more they desire want and try to enforce Inter-cultural dialogue the more the Europeans will reach for there guns. We live in interesting times.
Posted by: Holger Dansker at April 14, 2008 5:48 PM
As soon as someone says they are "...committed to freedom of the press, but..." they've lost.
Their mind.
Their liberty.
Their spine.
And their future.
Freedom is not negotiable.
And doesn't not exist when your enemy can over-rule it.
History is a graveyard of all who tried to bargain with tyranny.
No deal, Pottering.
Back to your doddering.
Posted by: profitsbeard at April 14, 2008 6:39 PM
ABOVE:
"...doesn't...exist when your enemy can over-rule it." (second not, not.)
Posted by: profitsbeard at April 14, 2008 6:42 PM
"He commended the opening of a church in Qatar, saying this is something he understands as tolerance."
is that so?...THe Italian Interior Ministery said the following:
"If an Islamic country allows a church, why should we prohibit a mosque in Italy?" he said."
....hmmmmm Mosques have been discovered harbouring known terrorist, Mosques have been discovered preaching very violent anti Christian sermons, Mosques have been discovered with weapons and explosives..
and Christian Churches have been discovered harbouring ...Well...Christians..
Oh Yeah, I see ..tolerance, yeah that's it..the Christian Churches don't store weapons and explosives and send out killers...they are more easy to tolerate than Mosques which do send out killers...often killing other Muslims..
Christian churches are safer..
at April 14, 2008 8:18 PM
The white supremists, neo-Nazis, KKK, Black Panthers, M16, Mafia, Yakuza, Triad, etc should all jump on this bandwagon, making an unholy scene when their acts are associated with violence. Hey, if it's good enough for Muslims it's good enough for every other thug in the world!
Posted by: Madame Vengier at April 14, 2008 8:20 PM
"Hey, if it's good enough for Muslims it's good enough for every other thug in the world!
Posted by: Madame Vengier"
uh oh...now we have to worry about those soccer momns and tball coaches...
Posted by: pulsar182 at April 14, 2008 8:36 PM
Holger,
Bravo! Very well said and explained. Your post indicates that there is hope in Europe. I applaud you and all of your compatriots in standing up to this menace!
Please tell use more, and keep us informed!
at April 14, 2008 8:50 PM
Suposedly this gentleman speaks for parliment, parliment in turn speaks for the people of the EU. I for one, would like to hear what the people have to say about this matter.
Posted by: DeadRecknoning at April 14, 2008 11:37 PM
I for one, would like to hear what the people have to say about this matter.Posted by: DeadRecknoning at April 14, 2008 11:37 PM
at April 15, 2008 12:05 AM
To Holger Dansker,
I am so sad for you all in Europe. You have a beautiful history, culture, and society. I feel that the US will soon be in the same fight against the monster religion islam. I live in a small town in Colorado (USA) and two days ago I saw a family of allah's slaves in the grocery (I base this on the fact that the woman wore the hijab (it was maroon, and I have seen others)). I read postings on JW and DW and can only come to one conclusion. The western world concepts of Freedom cannot co-exist with islam. We have to stop islam. It is an infectious mental and societal disease. The part that baffles me is that it is almost always agreed to by a willing participant (at least in the west). How could a person accept that??? It is madness. I was recently in Amsterdam, Den Haag and Belgium, it looks like you are taking a bad turn. So sad.… Holger Dansker, when you’re ready to leave from being overrun… I will gladly offer sanctuary to you, and any like you. Perhaps we can stop them here, and push back.
Good luck
at April 15, 2008 12:31 AM
Life is like a box of falafel, you never know what your going to get when the elitists don't represent the citizens! Pay attention America....All Hail the Messiah!
Posted by: dmann at April 15, 2008 2:35 AM
Recall the four phases of conflict:
1. First they ignore you
2. Then they laugh at you
3. Then they fight you
4. Then you win.
...but unfortunately...
5. Then they legislate against you.
The AOC (Alliance of Civilizations) are suggesting that those who "spread hate" (i.e. people like us rather than Muslims) should be legislated against, if necessary. The UN is listening and considering "voluntary" legislation. The EU is also considering similar legislation. Canada has alredy implemented "anti-hate speech" legislation.
This is not a fight we can win... We will be silenced, one way or the other. This will lead to conflict.
Posted by: Stefcho at April 15, 2008 4:57 AM
Holger Dansker,
Great post, thanks. It's so interesting to hear about the problems in Europe directly from someone who lives there.
Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at April 15, 2008 7:50 AM
Holger Dansker
since Hollywood isn't going to provide any morale boosters this time around
read two novels by G K Chesterton 'The Flying Inn' and 'The Napoleon of Notting Hill', and his two poems - 'The Ballad of the White Horse' and 'Lepanto'.
Get his book 'The Everlasting Man' (it's online somewhere) - the chapter entitled 'the War of the Gods and the Demons' (Rome vs Carthage, lares and penates vs. Moloch the eater of children). The chapter on European Christendom - 'the five deaths of the faith' - isn't bad, either.
Oh yes: and J R R Tolkien, 'The Return of the King', the chapter called 'The Scouring of the Shire'.
Check out the Zionist websites and look for stories about a fellow called Orde Wingate, and what he taught the Haganah. You might find him inspiring.
Time to start a reading group...
at April 15, 2008 8:55 AM
Dear praxis9,
thank you for your offer of sanctury but I am afraid I will have to politely decline. I settled here 20 odd years ago after traveling round the world I have put down roots, deep roots. I have a family and children and I am happy here and I can assure you no one and I mean no one is going to turn me into a refugee which is what I would be if I was to take up your kind offer and anyway I am too old. It would also be a sign that Europe was lost and America was on its own. Thank you just the same.
Dear Dumbeldoresarmy,
thank you for the book list, but I am afraid you are too late, read them all, apart from one. May I humble suggest that if any of you are interested you go too Guttenberg.org and download this book by Gladys M Draycott called “Mahomet Founder of Islam” it is only about 130 pages long. It gives an excelent grounding for anyone wanting to study Islam. It was written in I think 1916 or there abouts so it is not tainted by any revisionist bullshit. It is a clear, well written. and concise biography. It is also free. Here is the link
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/10738
at April 15, 2008 12:50 PM
Who is WE, doddering Pottering??!!
I am ONE European who thinks otherwise!
I only speak for myself but I know I am not the only one.
Have the guts to speak for yourself you filthy contemptible dhimmi!
It's not enough that you keep soaking us for taxes which you prattle away on the most useless of things.. since money grows on trees..
On top of stealing our hard-earned money you act as an instrument of the enemy!!!!!
I would like to remind everyone how traitors were treated in France at the end of World War 2.
Sale collaborateur!!
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 15, 2008 10:23 PM
it sounds like this guy needs to read the history of Europe and about the Barbary Pirates and about how Muslims were basing their piracy on the following
, then the ambassador to France, and John Adams, then the ambassador to Britain, met in London with Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja, the ambassador to Britain from Tripoli. The Americans asked Adja why his government was hostile to American ships, even though there had been no provocation. The ambassador's response was reported to the Continental Congress:
It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise.
and frankly I cannot see any change in Muslims today they still follow the same Koran as the Barbary Pirates and we still have Muslims in demonstrations calling to take our women as booty so what is the difference frankly none that I can see
at April 16, 2008 2:40 AM
Holger Dansker
thanks for the tip.
glad to know that you have already read my suggested 'morale boosters'.
Posting the list was still worth it - even though *you've* read them, there must be plenty of lurkers and archive trawlers 'eavesdropping' on this conversation, who haven't yet, and may find them helpful.
Hang in there, sir.
If you're talking with young folks - pique their interest by getting them thinking about some of the analogies between our non-Muslim world facing the Third Jihad, and Tolkien's Hobbits, Humans, Elves, Dwarves and Ents facing Sauron's armies, or Rowlings' Order of the Phoenix and Hogwarts Castle confronting Voldemort and the Death Eaters. THEN show them 'Fitna' again, and 'Islam: What the West Needs to Know'...
We don't have a Gandalf. We don't have an Aragorn, or a King of Rohan. We don't have a Dumbledore, or a Harry Potter, not yet.
But we have Benedict XVI, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Bat Yeor, Robert Spencer, Patrick Sookhdeo, maybe a dozen others, as well as the recently dead whose books still speak - Ellul and Fallaci, say.
Let's hear their warnings; let's also read stories, and be inspired.
Here is Frodo, in Tolkien's 'Fellowship of the Ring': Bk I chapter 8, 'Fog on the Barrow Downs', waking up as a prisoner of the Barrow-Wight:
"But though his fear was so great that it seemed to be part of the very darkness that was round him, he found himself as he lay thinking about Bilbo Baggins and his stories, of their jogging along together in the lanes of the Shire and talking about roads and adventures.
"There is a seed of courage hidden (often deeply, it is true) in the heart of the fattest and most timid hobbit, waiting for some final and desperate danger to make it grow. Frodo was neither very fat nor very timid...
"He thought he had come to the end of his adventure, and a terrible end, but the thought hardened him. He found himself stiffening, as if for a final spring; he no longer felt limp, like a helpless prey".
Perhaps the ordinary Dutch, Danes, Scots and English are reaching that same desperate moment that Tolkien imagined for his character - and the seed of courage is awakening. Westergaard and Wilders may be only the beginning.
Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 16, 2008 4:49 AM
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