German bishop - let's all call God Allah

Archbishop of Canterbury - sharia law may have a place in the English legal system

Malaysian bishop - Islam is like Christianity

Is there any point in Christianity any longer?

Posted by: Stephen Gash SIOE England at April 16, 2008 4:30 PM

Islam distorts sanity and truth.

If it 'distorts' the truth then why the riots and killing? Your actions speak louder then your words.

and 'just as we would not wish this on the Bible' oh, you mean the same book that is banned, thrown away, and burned in Islamic countries. And is this why Iran is now creating a counter Fitna movie about Christians and the Bible.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at April 16, 2008 4:31 PM

Lets see how distorted Islam is as Sharia Law seeps more and more into Malaysian society.

Posted by: Elric66 at April 16, 2008 4:32 PM

Translated, this might mean, "Please don't kill us Christians in Malaysia, cause some guy in the West said you were violent."

Posted by: James Martel at April 16, 2008 5:03 PM

James,

Being that the Malaysian Christians are slowly suffocating under the heels of the muslim overlords, I think your analysis is right.

Posted by: boneshack at April 16, 2008 5:10 PM

That is like saying 'do these jeans make my ass look big?'.

'no....your ass makes the jeans look small'.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at April 16, 2008 5:15 PM

Does he really believe his obviously-wrong comments, or is it "taqiyya?"

Posted by: darcy at April 16, 2008 5:22 PM

Rev Dr Shastri said in a statement the 15-minute feature film had distorted the core spiritual values of Islam, which like Christianity did not advocate violence....

--

could-a fooled me!

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 16, 2008 5:42 PM

I wanted to link to that terrorist incidents counter but I can't find it..

People you should STOP believing your lying eyes.. isma is THEE "religion of peace®"

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at April 16, 2008 5:46 PM

I somehow suspect that the Council of Churches is not even remotely expressing how they really feel; they're more under the burden of increasingly islamist imposed censorship. No way in hell are they gonna come out and say, "Yeah, Fitna just tells it like it is. Islam needs to become enlightened or perish. Hell yeah for freedom of speech and down with Islamist Supremacy." I mean, let's get real, they're not going to come out and say that. Neither are groups agitating for Hindu or Chinese rights, already in a volatile situation for trying to end bumiputra, nor are Chinese in Indonesia or Singapore-whose president has repeatedly called out Indonesia/Malaysia on ethnic discrimination but has never felt safe to call out Islamic traditions for contributing to it.

Even muslims who are trying to improve Malaysia and Indonesia are rarely in a position where it's safe for them to be calling out specific Islamic texts and traditions to be reformed or enlightened. Case in point is Abdurrahman Wahid, the Indonesian Islamic activist known for his efforts to improve Indonesia's religious tolerance, calling on and compelling on Muslims to protect Christians from Laskar Jihad, eliminating laws discriminating against the Chinese and public declaring support for Israel. His public remarks have been criticized here on JW, (http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/011551.php,

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/009623.php)

leading some to suspect him of being a taqiyah artist. While Spencer was perfectly right to criticize him for being too vague and not looking at Islamic texts, this was probably a situation where it would be better to look at the context of where Wahid was saying these things.

When it comes to concretely singling out Islamic texts and traditions, those who are most outspoken, brave as they are, are doing it within the safety and confines of Western nations where muslim are still less than 5 percent of the population. That includes Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Tashbih Sayyed before he passed away, Tawfik Hamid, Hasan Mahmud, Nonie Darwish, Ibn Warraq, Ali Sina and Wafa Sultan. When it comes to public statements about Islam with in Islamic places themselves, even places as relatively moderate-operative word being relatively here-as Malaysia or Indonesia, some common sense is still needed. Whether it's liberals like Wahid, the Malaysian Church Council, Hindu or Chinese intellectuals in Malaysia or even neighboring Singapore, some analysis is undoubtedly needed when looking at what they say before labeling them as deceivers, ignorant, cowards, sissies or "dhimwits", to use a thereligionofpeace.com term.

Posted by: maxwell46&2 at April 16, 2008 5:55 PM

Good Dhimmis! Now, pay the jizya in willing submission and feel yourselves subdued. Your wretched, miserable lives and property are "protected" until Isa comes to punish you for the grievous crime of unbelief.

Posted by: John C at April 16, 2008 5:58 PM

Can you say, "Yes, Effendi"?

Posted by: John C at April 16, 2008 5:59 PM

Well there you have it! Straight from the mouths of the dhimmi who have no reason to appease their peace-loving inner-spiritual-peace strugglers!

Posted by: A Simple Sinner at April 16, 2008 10:07 PM

The Council of Churches Malaysia is a liberal umbrella group of declining Protestant churches. Neither Malaysian Catholics nor most Evangelicals participate. It is affiliated with the World Council of Churches. The WCC member churches include numerous Protestant churches, such as the Anglican Communion, some Baptists, many Lutheran, Methodist, and Reformed, a broad sampling of united and independent churches, and some Pentecostal churches; and some schismatic Old Catholic churches.

Most Orthodox Churches have suspended active participation and the Roman Catholic Church was never a member. Many other churches have opted to stay out of the WCC, accusing it of being dominated by liberals and leftists. In fact, during the 1960s and 70s the WCC had become virtually a communist front.

Posted by: Provoslavni at April 16, 2008 10:09 PM

From the article:
"Wilders is provocative in his comments on selective readings of the Quran and seeks to present a distorted portrayal of Islam as a violent religion," said CCM general secretary Rev Dr Hermen Shastri.
___

Yeah? Well I find those 'selective readings of the Quran' to be quite provocative all by themselves, with or without Wilders' comments on them. Because, yeah, I have a problem with being referred to as an ape and a pig; yeah, I have a problem with your belief that I am going to burn in hell for all eternity as some rotten sinner because I don't believe in your beliefs; and yes, I have a big problem with your god demanding that you wage an open-ended, never-ending war on me and strike terror into my heart wherever you find me. I believe Islam is a violent religion because of what is said in your holiest book, not because of what some Dutchman tells me.
___

From the article:
"The film, which is now posted on the web, highly criticises Islam, setting verses from the Quran against a background of violent images from terrorist attacks."
___

I have a dream. I have a dream that one day soon, Mr Wilders will reveal to the world that the very same clips he used in 'Fitna' - video along with its original audio of Muslim atrocities - is in fact shot and produced in its entirety by jihadis, and is in fact posted on one of the thousands of Islamic death porn websites on the Internet nowadays.

Imagine that. Imagine how awesome it would be if Mr Wilders could come out and state that the very clips that Muslims are finding so offensive - not because of their inherent barbarity and violence, but because disrespectful dirty infidels DARE to draw attention to such Muslim atrocities - in his movie 'Fitna' are in fact propoganda clips that Muslim jihadis themselves have assembled and distributed.

Because I simply DO NOT see any difference with what Mr Wilders drew attention to in 'Fitna' and the disgusting death porn videos that jihadis produce and freely post on al-YouTube every single day. I mean, has anyone actually WATCHED a beheading video? It's all about Allahu Akbar! *saw saw* ALLAHUUU AKBAR!! That was not PRODUCED by Mr Wilders... he did not stage that to make his point. No, that point was made, and has been made countless times, by Muslims themselves, by committing heinously violent acts WHILE justifying them with Koranic verses. WE are not making the Islam-violence connection; jihadis are doing that themselves... and I'd say they were doing a bang-up job of it, too, except that so few of us actually seem to be aware of what is going on right under our noses, in plain sight.

Posted by: JenBee at April 16, 2008 10:42 PM

To Provoslavni,

Well, I guess that much i did not really know. However, i think what I said in my first response still holds; even if they were "right wing", so to speak, they may not be saying Fitma is responsible for spreading hatred or other such crap, but they sure wouldn't feel safe being as direct and forthright as Sultan, Warraq, Ali Sina, Tawfik Hamid, Tashbih Sayyed, Hirsi Ali or Magdi Allam. Not until the West starts acting like a protector of human rights and forces these nations to ensure their safety, anyway.

Posted by: maxwell46&2 at April 16, 2008 11:48 PM

maxwell46&2, provoslavni

I think you're both right. My own response, upon reading the article as posted, was thus: "Dhimmis!" (more in pity than in anger).

There is another Christian representative body in Malaysia - the National Evangelical Christian Fellowship.

It might be worth finding out what they have to say on the topic, if anything.

In the meantime - looking for CCM- I came across the following, on Australia's Radio National, 'the Religion Report', which is an interview between the host, Stephen Crittenden, and the then head of the CCM or MCC, concerning the Lina Joy case, in 2006. I'll post the link, as it shows quite clearly that Stephen Crittenden is no dhimmi and no dummy either...there's actually a link to 'dhimmi watch' at the bottom of the transcript.

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/religionreport/stories/2006/1673632.htm

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at April 17, 2008 12:42 AM

Yes, I believe my own church, the Anglican Church, is part of the CCM. But also the NECF.

Hah, you know, I *thought* I remembered the WCC as some unholy, unChristian thingy. I thought the CCM was more conservative, though. Guess I was wrong.

Aah, we don't really believe half of these nonsensical press releases anyway. Remember that to publish any sort of mass media you need to have a 'licence', and that can be revoked if you piss off the wrong people (I leave the question of who they might be as an exercise). I stopped reading the papers years ago. Except if it has to do with my work.

Geert could have improved his short flick a little, though, I must say. Still, it was quite a good bash at the topic/issue at hand. I hope his next projects get better and better and better - if he doesn't get hisself kilt, I mean.

Posted by: gkong3 at April 17, 2008 2:09 AM

JenBee,

As for those horrible jihadi videos that you have said in your posted comments are shown on YouTube there is an effort to get those videos flagged and the accounts closed.

Posted by: bigcatgirl13106 at April 17, 2008 6:46 AM

If only "FITNA" was able to distort Islam's long and tragic record of committing innumerable violent crimes against humanity (which it CONTINUES TO COMMIT across the globe with impunity) and Islam's infinitely nasty MODUS OPERANDI.

Too bad as well that "FITNA" isn't lying to the world about the very horrific impact Islam continues to have on our world. Most people, Muslims included, wish it was lying (it's just too horrible to bear).

Posted by: pythagoras at April 17, 2008 3:31 PM