Good God!

The depravity never ceases to shock.

Posted by: Meccano at May 11, 2008 7:29 AM

"what she did was unacceptable to any Muslim that honours his religion,'

He was terrified that his daughter would see that all the horror stories she had heard about Christians were lies. This meant she had to realize that her own father was a liar and racist bigot. Then she must have connected the dots when she realized that the father and his religion , Islam, shared the hatred that has been responsible for so many deaths.

Her father killed because he realized his daughter had not only discovered love but had also discovered the truth.

and Muslims really hate it when the truth gets out.

Posted by: pulsar182 at May 11, 2008 7:58 AM

Poor child. Had she known she was born into a muslim family, had she known of her eventual fate, she likely would have preferred to be stillborn.

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at May 11, 2008 7:59 AM

Father stomps and stabs daughter, brothers join in, uncles spit on the corpse. Just another fun family night in islam.

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at May 11, 2008 8:05 AM

Would he have been punished under Saddam's regime?

Posted by: Celsius at May 11, 2008 8:42 AM

For our international visitors, today is Mother's Day. One would assume that the Mother would intervene and stop this horrific act from coming to fruition. Yet she didn't, or couldn't- unfortunately, this is the case of many abused spouses. The only difference between an abuse case in the West and an abuse case in Islam is the simple fact that this action, this abuse, is sanctioned by Islam, the religion of the masses.

There is so much wrong with Islam, so much that needs to be drastically altered, that I'm not sure it can be done. It seems like the best solution would be to throw it out and start all over, but I can see about a billion Muslims that would protest that-and rightly so, since I'm not only suggesting getting rid of their religion, but their whole way of life. However, it's a way of life that is destructive to it's female population, and something must be done other than constant appeasement.

Posted by: s at May 11, 2008 9:27 AM

"Would he have been punished under Saddam's regime?

Posted by: Celsius "

Honor killing occured during Saddams regime, sometimes the the killer was arrested, sometimes not. The arrestees were usually give light sentences and receive minimal punishment. Many honor Killing just went unreported. No One cared enough to even report the suddenly missing person. Honor killing were not a priority item for Saddam, wiping out whole villages with chemical and biological weapons were..

Posted by: pulsar182 at May 11, 2008 9:32 AM

"'Death was the least she deserved,' said Abdel-Qader. 'I don't regret it."

he would have said the same thing if he had sent her out with a suicide bomb belt on to go out and kill some infidels or other Muslims not being Muslim enough..

Islam is a thrill kill machine

Posted by: pulsar182 at May 11, 2008 10:14 AM

Is there any information on the incidence of honor killing, female genital mutilation, and other such barbarity among non-muslims, such as christians, buddhists, hindus, zoroastrians, etc., living in the same culture as the muslims? We keep hearing that these acts are cultural and are remnants of a pre-Islamic past. And that Islam is not the source. If these despicable things only occur among muslims and not among the non-muslims in the same country or culture, then pre-Islamic culture surely cannot be blamed for their existence. Is my thinking logical here?

Posted by: norman at May 11, 2008 10:57 AM

I this story this AM and noticed this immediately,

'what she did was unacceptable to any Muslim that honours his religion,'

Those that insist that this is cultural only, will have a hard time getting past this muslims belief system. So why does it shame 'him' primarily as the father, and to the family secondarily? It seems that Islam is a patriarchal system. The duty of keeping family members in line with Islam is the fathers.
(He also threatened his sons about gays). If one of his family members strays, he must take action.
This may consist of various types of force and discipline, up to and including 'honor killing'.
If he takes no action, or he is weak about continued infractions, he will loose face with his muslim brothers, and appear to look inferior to them.
Soon, they will begin to question him and his own safety may be at risk. Only swift and decisive actions, like murder, can rectify this disgrace.
The police understand this also and applauded him for doing the 'right' thing. Now he has assured his standing in the Ummah as a good father and a good muslim. No one can now question his faith...
The shame has been erased by the death of the shamer...Ain't Islam grand...peaceful too...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 11, 2008 11:15 AM

If honor-killing and FGM are merely "cultural" things, it's strange that nearly 1400 years of Islam haven't stamped them out, along with virtually everything else from the indigenous, pre-Islamic, culture. No, if they truly were pre-Islamic, they have survived only because Islam approved of them. Slavery, likewise.

Posted by: ebonystone at May 11, 2008 11:25 AM

Abdel-Qader, 46, a government employee, was initially arrested but released after two hours. Astonishingly, he said, police congratulated him on what he had done. 'They are men and know what honour is,' he said.

They are not men and do not know how to even spell "honour", much less practice it.

Posted by: tanstaafl at May 11, 2008 12:21 PM

"Though her horrified mother, Leila Hussein, called Rand's two brothers, Hassan, 23, and Haydar, 21, to restrain Abdel-Qader as he choked her with his foot on her throat, they joined in. Her shrouded corpse was then tossed into a makeshift grave without ceremony as her uncles spat on it in disgust."

Is it possible that the followers of islam are just one big, dysfunctional family?

Or just a bunch of non-thinking robots controlled by an evil collective like the Borg in Star Trek?

Or both?

Posted by: PorkFatRules at May 11, 2008 12:41 PM

This is just the Moslem nersion of being 'Pro-Choice'

Posted by: dm60462 at May 11, 2008 1:35 PM

Is it possible that the followers of islam are just one big, dysfunctional family?

Or just a bunch of non-thinking robots controlled by an evil collective like the Borg in Star Trek?

Or both?
Posted by: PorkFatRules

I think it's closest to both...In terms of Star Trek, Islam is the Klingon, Infidels are the Romulans, and there is no Federation...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 11, 2008 1:42 PM

When discussing lapidation (stoning for adultery), Muslims often point out that this punishment is exceedingly rare in the Muslim world, which is true. But the reason for such rarity is that the "perpetrator" is usually victimized in an honor killing before a lapidation sentence can ever be applied.

Furthermore, when discussing the prevalence of honor killings, we must remember that the issue is not only the hundreds (perhaps thousands) of Muslim women who die this way every year, but the hundreds of millions of others whose lives are tragically constricted by the fear of such a possibility.

Posted by: Cornelius at May 11, 2008 1:45 PM

Girls and boys naturally go through a time of puppy love, infatuations that fade with time, though at the time they seem strong and true to the inexperienced children.

I cannot imagine in that culture of brutality the girl confiding her feelings to her father, I would bet that she confided to her mother who let it slip to the old tyrant.

Perhaps the mother knowing the culture thought that the father would keep her at home, before things actually got serious and the families "honor" was compromised, perhaps the mother had to tell the father because the mothers authority in that household was on par with just one of the childrens authority.

So what would you do if you were a mother that loved her daughter in such a culture? If you warned the girl of the consequences if it was found out would a mothers warning be inconsequential since the mother is little more than chattel?

And now is the mother under threat because she gave birth to a girl who was a bad seed, romantic and dreamy?

If asylum was given to all the women under such threats in the realm of the pedophile prophet, they would bring in the same sort of culture to wherever they went.

Of course I am looking at the whole question from a perspective of respect to life, and the God of life and truth and love, and not the perspective of one that is in thrall to a demon of hate, death and lies.

Posted by: stickman at May 11, 2008 2:07 PM

Cornelius...But the reason for such rarity is that the "perpetrator" is usually victimized in an honor killing before a lapidation sentence can ever be applied.

I think you hit that nail right square on the head...

Posted by: duh_swami at May 11, 2008 2:11 PM

A second known 'honour'killing in Jordan in the same week:

"The victim, who was married almost two weeks before the incident, was returned to her family home on Friday by her husband, who questioned “her fidelity”.

The victim’s family interrogated her and she allegedly told them that “she knew a man but was not involved in an affair with him” so they beat her until she almost fainted, the source told The Jordan Times.

The 23-year-old brother then told his sister he wanted to take her for a ride to calm things down, the source added.

“He drove her to the Dead Sea, and when the call for dawn prayers began, he asked her to recite verses of the Holy Koran, then dunked her head in the water until he made sure she was dead,” the source said."
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.com/2008/05/2-jordanian-honor-killings-in-week.html

Posted by: Silvester at May 11, 2008 2:19 PM

Islamic culture is an oxymoron. What gives me hope is that lots of Muslims are beginning to realize this and leave this perverse religion.

We must give support to person's who want to leave Islam and force Islamic states to accept freedom of religion as a condition of any foriegn aid. We must also impose sanctions on Islamic nations who do not accept religious freedom.

And of course expel from our countries any immigrants, Muslims, Christians, or whatever, who thinks that those who leave their religion should be threatened. This is intolerable. Oops, only Muslims kill those who leave ... as I said Islamic culture is an oxymoron.

Posted by: James Martel at May 11, 2008 4:26 PM

"Is there any information on the incidence of honor killing, female genital mutilation, and other such barbarity among non-muslims, such as christians, buddhists, hindus, zoroastrians, etc., living in the same culture as the muslims? We keep hearing that these acts are cultural and are remnants of a pre-Islamic past. And that Islam is not the source. If these despicable things only occur among muslims and not among the non-muslims in the same country or culture, then pre-Islamic culture surely cannot be blamed for their existence. Is my thinking logical here?"
Posted by: norman

Excellent point, norman, and your logic is impeccable. My guess is that there might be remnant echoes of this in some of the other cultures, but nothing anywhere near what is still so prevalent in Islam. It would be good to have the statistics in hand to be able to counter the excuses cultural relativists give for this. I have no idea where they could be found.

Posted by: Eastview at May 11, 2008 5:12 PM

"Sitting in the front garden of his well-kept home in the city's Al-Fursi district, he remains a free man, despite having stamped on, suffocated and then stabbed his student daughter to death."

"Abdel-Qader, 46, a government employee, was initially arrested but released after two hours. Astonishingly, he said, police congratulated him on what he had done. 'They are men and know what honour is,' he said."

I want out of Iraq. I do not want one more dime spent on these people. I do not one more American life lost to protect these people.

Posted by: greatcometof1577 at May 11, 2008 6:10 PM

"'Death was the least she deserved,' said Abdel-Qader. 'I don't regret it. I had the support of all my friends who are fathers, like me, and know what she did was unacceptable to any Muslim that honours his religion,'" --from the article

The "religion" (Islam) is relevant here because classical sharia demands the death penalty for both the Muslim female and non-Muslim male who have a sexual relationship. (The Quran also forbids that relationship). There doesn't appear to have been such a relationship here, but it may have appeared that way to the father. Even so, Islamic law absolves him of any crime (or else allows for a much-reduced sentence) in a case where the Muslim parent kills the offspring.

The notion that this is "cultural" but not "religious" (Islamic) is misguided because Islam is not merely religious but covers all aspects of culture. Indeed, Islamic law has harsh penalties for actions that fall under broad, open-ended categories of "offences," such as upsetting to the Muslim community, causing turmoil, or causing "mischief/corruption."

Something to keep in mind about those people who still talk about winning hearts and minds...

"She was believed to have last seen him in January, and the pair, whose relationship was innocent, only ever met while working at the aid station. The soldier was helping deliver relief to displaced families as part of his regimental duties" --from the previous dhimmiwatch-linked article about this same story.

So the girl's father, who is apparently Shia, does not in the least appreciate the fact that British soldiers put their lives on the line to remove Saddam and to secure Basra, and effectively set up the conditions for a Shia-dominated government, and on top of that are risking their lives to deliever aid to the people of Basra. This story should be presented to anyone still naive enough to believe that there is something, anything, that non-Muslim Westerners can do to "win the hearts and minds" of the Iraqis. This typical Iraqi father (like the popular leader Sistani) regards non-Muslims not only as "the enemy", but as dirt, urine, or feces, so disgusting that even the remotest hint that his daughter showed a romantic interest in a non-Muslim was grounds, in his mind, to torture her and brutally execute her. As the Quran says, Islamic loyalty trumps family.

Posted by: Kinana of Khaybar at May 11, 2008 11:11 PM

"Please lock me away
And don't allow the day
Here inside where I hide
With my loneliness...

I don't care what they say
I won't stay in a world without love."
-Peter and Gordon

Somebody should seriously craft this into a Romeo + Juliet for the twenty-first century and disseminate the cold hard reality while at it. Just be sure to hire blackwater to cordon off a perimeter for the premier.

Posted by: We need G.C. Scott at May 12, 2008 12:37 AM

We keep hearing that these acts are cultural and are remnants of a pre-Islamic past. And that Islam is not the source. If these despicable things only occur among muslims and not among the non-muslims in the same country or culture, then pre-Islamic culture surely cannot be blamed for their existence. Is my thinking logical here?"
Posted by: norman

There aren't too many non-muslims today in what once was Christian territory but if the non-muslims practice the same "cultural" perversions as muslims, you never hear about it. Non-muslim Arabs abandoned these savage practices centuries ago; muslims made them religious obligations.
Female genital mutilation predated islam but was seamlessly incorporated into accepted islamic practice. FGM complimented islam's misogynistic ethos so well that it became a religious duty in most islamic societies. Abandoned long ago except in a few areas of Africa, muslims are the primary practioners of this barbaric practice today. Honor killing was probably practiced by the pre-islamic Arabian bedouins and while its origins are cultural, it melded with islam and muslims are responsible for 99.9% of all honor killings today. Islam began in Arabia and was borne of Arab cultural imperialism, so while the qur'an may not address honor killing one way or another, it has always been a part of islam's patriarchal, tribal ethos. The clerics and scholars do not forbid honor killings and the perpetrators usually get off with little or no punishment, so it has islam's stamp of approval. Much of islam is derived from pre-islamic, Arabic culture, which muslims have endeavored to spread and forcibly impose because it is superior to all alternatives. Don't laugh.

There are domestic violence episodes in every society and among people of all religions. But I think it is safe to say that muslims are the only people who kill their wives, daughters, and sisters to cleanse their honor. Islam is the only major patriarchal religion/culture left in existence and the absolute domination of females is imperative to its survival.

One of islam's survival mechanisms is iconoclasm; as soon as muslims dominate they eradicate all vestiges of the conquered culture, history, religions, and political system. They desecrate and then destroy religious icons, literature, art---everything associated with a non-islamic society, and they kill the unconverted intellectuals and clergy so their knowledge and influence will die with them. So you can rest assured that if the perversities inherent in islam were not of Arabic origin, they would have been eradicated long ago.

Posted by: Susanp at May 12, 2008 12:49 AM

All the talk of pre-Islamic practices obscure the simple fact that Islam reinforced these barbaric practices. Islam took all that was evil and coveteous in man and gave it the cloak of religion. This accounts for the sanctimonious look that most of their pious have. I recall laughing when Bill Clinton made his half-hearted confessions. The Muslims were all over this, (he lost cachet with them over his support for Israel) to wit Clinton was immoral and a womaniser. But in their religion Ms Lewinsky would be wife number 4, or else something the right hand possesses.

This murderer was surely one of the millions of Iraqi cowards who let Saddam rape them. I'm glad he found some area to display his prowess in.

Posted by: ivan at May 12, 2008 1:40 AM

I post here the remainder of the article in case the link goes dead, something that often happens with news stories...

[excerpt]
Sitting on a chair by his front door and surrounded by the gerberas and white daisies he had planted in the family garden, Abel-Qader attempted to justify his actions.

'I don't have a daughter now, and I prefer to say that I never had one. That girl humiliated me in front of my family and friends. Speaking with a foreign solider, she lost what is the most precious thing for any woman. 'People from western countries might be shocked, but our girls are not like their daughters that can sleep with any man they want and sometimes even get pregnant without marrying. Our girls should respect their religion, their family and their bodies.

'I have only two boys from now on. That girl was a mistake in my life. I know God is blessing me for what I did,' he said, his voice swelling with pride. 'My sons are by my side, and they were men enough to help me finish the life of someone who just brought shame to ours.'

Abdel-Qader, a Shia, says he was released from the police station 'because everyone knows that honour killings sometimes are impossible not to commit'. Chillingly, he said: 'The officers were by my side during all the time I was there, congratulating me on what I had done.' It's a statement that, if true, provides an insight into how vast the gulf remains between cultures in Iraq and between the Basra police the British army that trains them.

Sources have indicated that Abdel-Qader, who works in the health department, has been asked to leave because of the bad publicity, yet he will continue to draw a salary.

And it has been alleged by one senior unnamed official in the Basra governorate that he has received financial support by a local politician to enable him to 'disappear' to Jordan for a few weeks, 'until the story has been forgotten' - the usual practice in the 30-plus cases of 'honour' killings that have been registered since January alone.

Such treatment seems common in Basra, where militias have partial control, especially in the districts on the outskirts where Abdel-Qader lives.

While government security forces and British troops have control over the centre, around the fringes militants can still be seen everywhere on the streets or at the checkpoints they have erected. And they have imposed strict laws of behaviour for all the local people, including what clothing should be worn and what religious practices should be observed. There are reports of men having their hands cut off for looting and women being killed for prostitution.

Homosexuality is punishable by death, a sentence Abdel-Qader approves of with a passion. 'I have alerted my two sons. They will have the same end [as Rand] if they become contaminated with any gay relationship. These crimes deserve death - death in the name of God,' he said.

He said his daughter's 'bad genes were passed on from her mother'. Rand's mother, 41, remains in hiding after divorcing her husband in the immediate aftermath of the killing, living in fear of retribution from his family. She also still bears the scars of the severe beating he inflicted on her, breaking her arm in the process, when she told him she was going. 'They cannot accept me leaving him. When I first left I went to a cousin's home, but every day they were delivering notes to my door saying I was a prostitute and deserved the same death as Rand,' she said.

'She was killed by animals. Every night when go to bed I remember the face of Rand calling for help while her father and brothers ended her life,' she said, tears streaming down her face.

She was nervous, clearly terrified of being found, and her eyes constantly turned towards the window as she spoke. 'Rand told me about the soldier, but she swore it was just a friendship.
'She said she spoke with him because she was the only English speaker. I raised her in a religious manner and she never went out alone until she joined the university and then later when she was doing aid work.

'Even now, I cannot believe my ex-husband was able to kill our daughter. He wasn't a bad person. During our 24 years of marriage, he was never aggressive. But on that day, he was a different person.'

The mother is now trying to raise enough money to escape abroad. 'I miss my two boys,' she said. 'But they have sent a message saying that I am wrong for defending Rand and that I should go back home and live like a blessed Muslim woman,' said Leila, who is now volunteering with a local organisation campaigning for better protection for women in Basra.

One of those running the organisation, who did not want to be identified, said that Rand's case was similar to so many reported in Basra, with the only difference being she was in love with a foreigner, rather than an Iraqi.

'There isn't too much to say. Rand is dead. It is a tragedy and will be a tragedy for many other families in Iraq in the days to come.
'According to information we have been given, some from Rand's colleague, we have doubts that her love was reciprocated. We have the impression that Rand was in love, but the English soldier wasn't. But, for a girl to be paid nice compliments about her beauty and her intelligence, it was enough for her to think she was in love.

'She isn't here any more for her mother to ask any of the questions she would like to. Rand's case had repercussions because she fell in love with a foreigner. But what about the other girls murdered through "honour" killings because they fell in love with some of a different sect, or lost their virginity, or were forced to become prostitutes?'

Rand's mother used to call her 'Rose'. 'That was my nickname for her because when she was born she was so beautiful,' she said.

'Now, my lovely Rose is in her grave. But, God will make her father pay, either in this world ... or in the world after.

[end of article]

Posted by: Kinana of Khaybar at May 12, 2008 3:42 AM

"'Even now, I cannot believe my ex-husband was able to kill our daughter. He wasn't a bad person. During our 24 years of marriage, he was never aggressive. But on that day, he was a different person.'" --from the article, Rand's mother.

So she's married to him for 24 years and could not have predicted that he would have done this.

How, then, should anyone expect Western non-Muslims to reliably tell the difference between "moderate" and "extremist" Muslims?

Posted by: Kinana of Khaybar at May 12, 2008 3:53 AM

Until the above question can be resolved, the West should halt Muslim immigration and expell anyone who supports at least one of the key components of sharia (which are all criminal in Western laws)...

--apostasy penalty
-blasphemy penalty
-"honour killing" of any sort
-adultery penalty
-homosexuality penalty
-wife-beating
-marriage to underage brides

In addition, any Muslim who supports the goal of establishing sharia should be expelled.

Muslims who spread da'wa with the assumption that they can eventually punish those who refuse to accept Islam (as da'wa is tied conditionally to the jihad policy) should also be expelled. Islamic proselytizing should be banned until Muslims remove the threat of penalty against those who do not accept the call to embrace Islam. Until then, da'wa must, prudently, be regarded as a veiled threat.

Posted by: Kinana of Khaybar at May 12, 2008 4:06 AM

I hope that all our and other soldiers, take good note of this.
Yes, we have freedom of religion, but should we allow such a cruel religion over here.
We have had now a couple of "honor" killings.
How do we stop this madness?
For me, Islam is a cult and should be banned. Burn all the Korans and forbid the sale of new Korans.
Then people, who still practice that cruel religion, should go back to their native country, if you were born here, go back with your parents.
I wished, the black people in the States, would wise up, by converting to Islam.
May be, the "Macho" type, like it by having control over women. It is disgusting. And it only shows how ignorant you are, when you convert to Islam.

Posted by: Maria at May 12, 2008 4:14 AM

It is way past time to do two things:

1. Develop an alternative energy source to oil, so that we are completely independent of the muslim-occupied territories.

2. Invade the muslim-occupied territories, and establish human rights there.

If we have our own energy sources, they won't be able to stop us.

Posted by: PersonOfTheBook at May 12, 2008 6:57 PM

A picture of the girl, Rand, is posted at this link http://solomonhezekiah.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/the-price-of-honour/

Posted by: Kinana of Khaybar at May 13, 2008 2:52 AM

What a heart breaking story. And the fact that "Abdel-Qader, a Shia, says he was released from the police station 'because everyone knows that honour killings sometimes are impossible not to commit'. Chillingly, he said: 'The officers were by my side during all the time I was there, congratulating me on what I had done.'" makes blood shoot out of one's eyes with rage and want to vomit. Aren't there any REAL men there who could avenge this girls death?

Posted by: Eastview at May 13, 2008 11:15 PM

"t is way past time to do two things:

1. Develop an alternative energy source to oil, so that we are completely independent of the muslim-occupied territories.
2. Invade the muslim-occupied territories, and establish human rights there."
Posted by: PersonOfTheBook

Completely agree with no. 1. About no. 2, that's more or less what the plan was for Iraq, and we see how well that's going.

Posted by: Eastview at May 13, 2008 11:19 PM

kinana -

I followed your link. The comments attached to the story included this interesting story from someone, about an attempted 'honor' murder by 'Palestinian' Arab Muslims in Arab-occupied Judea and Samaria:

"Many years ago, in a galaxy far, far away (ie, my youth) I worked for a year for Magen David Adom {i.e. the Israeli Red Cross} and in a pub one night I met this big, horrible, skinhead Russian import who was doing his time in the IDF.

"He was about 18 and was back from a tour of duty in the West Bank where he and his buddy had found a 13 year old girl battered senseless, barely alive and wrapped in a plastic sack. He was, honestly, not the nice face of the IDF or anything else but he was sober and crying. I never forgot."

Not what MSM and the let's-hate-the-evil-Zionist-occupier crowd want us to think about, when we visualise young (teenaged!) IDF soldiers on patrol in the 'west bank', i.e. Arab-occupied Judea and Samaria. Imagine those two young soldiers stumbling across (in a back alley? - in a ravine somewhere?) the battered, barely alive body of a poor little Arab Muslim girl whose horrible family have attacked her and then (presumably, believing her dead) have just...dumped her, like a stray cat or a dead donkey. One must assume the two young soldiers carried their shocking 'find' back to base and delivered her to some nice kind Israeli army medics, and thence to hospital in Israel...

And while the little girl's hideous father, brothers, uncles, or even her mother and sisters, were doubtless at home congratulating themselves on 'purifying' their 'honor', there in an Israeli pub was a young Jewish soldier (and *NOT* a 'sensitive' religious guy but a big tough Russian bloke) 'sober and crying', weeping for the girl as her own family would never do.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at May 14, 2008 12:29 AM