Yeah, that'll work.

Posted by: MP at June 3, 2008 5:05 PM

Yes let's put them in therapy never mind the fact the mental attitude and behavior was acquired from the teachings of the Koran and Islam and modeling of the so called prophet MoHAMtheMUCK, because we know Islam is a religion of peace. Funny and really odd that it always has to Muslims who end up with these strange behaviors of bombing and killing non Muslims, or I guess their psycho-analysis does not fall under the Diagnosis of Psychopathology that all other humans would fall under.

Posted by: savsiv at June 3, 2008 5:06 PM

This could be used to stifle anti-jihadist protest. You're being anti-social. You need to go to a re-education cam....err therapy session.
/Another multi-cultural success story.

Posted by: MP at June 3, 2008 5:10 PM

If this was an attempt at cult de-programming then I'd think it was a worthy effort. I doubt it based on these mission statements:

The measures on 'de-radicalisation' are based on examples overseas and on a scheme in Leicester which 'aims to encourage young people to feel more valued and to eradicate myths and assumptions which lead to young people becoming alienated and disempowered'.

Communities Secretary Hazel Blears said: 'Preventing violent extremism is about supporting local people to build resilient communities where extremists and their messages of hate cannot take root.

How do you build resilient communities if the communities are 'no-go zones' that encourage 'us vs. them' thinking? If extremists are running the community centers, mosques and are members of the local community policing force, how is this programme going to uproot extremism in the community and making it resilient?

Look at the nature of the community before you decide to make it resilient, please.

Also, what if being extreme makes the youth feel more valued? What if the youth is turning to radical extremist messages and adopting them because they get a sense of value, no matter how irrational, illegitimate and undeserved that value turns out to be? People adopt attitudes and actions because they see them as either 'right' or valuable in a selfish sense. Young people radicalize because they see it as 'right' and are foolish enough, given idealism and lack of experience, to pursue an extremist course of action. Young people are sometimes impatient and discount lessons of history that would moderate their agendas. We've all been there.

This same old claptrap about shoring up communities and the self-esteem of youth is wearing thin. It doesn't work on the South Side of Chicago. Why would it work in the south side of Leicester? It's fantasy at best and downright enabling dangerous in this case with a multicultural 'community'.

All of this feel-good western liberal thinking will continue to get its teeth kicked in until it can no longer feed itself. Then the shit will hit the fan.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at June 3, 2008 5:55 PM

I have this horrible, horrible feeling that it will be not be the jihadis and the jihad-inciting imams, but people like those two evangelists in northern England, who will be frog-marched away to be 're-educated'...

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at June 3, 2008 6:00 PM

I have this horrible, horrible feeling that it will be not be the jihadis and the jihad-inciting imams, but people like those two evangelists in northern England, who will be frog-marched away to be 're-educated'...

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at June 3, 2008 6:03 PM

I have this horrible, horrible feeling that it will be not be the jihadis and the jihad-inciting imams, but people like those two evangelists in northern England, who will be frog-marched away to be 're-educated'...

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at June 3, 2008 6:08 PM

Islamic extremists could receive counselling instead of criminal charges under new Government plans to 'deradicalise' religious fanatics issued today.

And if they are really extreme, then as dangerous mental patients, confined to secure institutions such as Broadmoor.

I really welcome this - in effect, the government is saying that anyone who really believes in Jihad etc, is mentally disturbed, or insane in common parlance. I'm sure that Secretary Hazel Blears did not mean it this way, but there it is.

Posted by: DP111 at June 3, 2008 6:09 PM

Ooops. Sorry about the multiple posting.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at June 3, 2008 6:09 PM

Anything, as long as they do not have to go to jail.

The British government is in with the jihadis and always have been.

Posted by: Voltaire at June 3, 2008 6:10 PM

"We are investing at local level to build resilient communities, which are equipped to confront violent extremism and support the most vulnerable individuals."
-- from the article above, quotiing Home Secretary Jacqui Smith

The seeming inability of so many to grasp that what they call a Muslim "extremist" continues to madden. Is it really impossible for those whose task it is to protect the public, and to instruct it in the dangers it faces, not to take the time out from their scheules to sit, and read the Qur'an and the Hadith and the Sira, and then to read, just a bit, about the significance of Jihad (say, by looking at "The Legacy of Jihad" which is not a narrative but a useful sourcebook)? Is it impossible for those in the security services, or those making policy to find a supposed "solution" to the problem of Muslim immigrants and their apparent inability to behave, or think, like any other immmigrant group, and to present, a difficult and indeed permanent problem, to the Infidels among whom they have come to live, that those who have been entrusted with the matter keep treating as if it is indeed a "problem" susceptible of a "solution" when in fact it is not, for the texts of Islam, are immutable, and no one has yet discovered a way to explain them away, and the handful of would-be reformers who think that the Hadith and the Sira, at least, can be jettisoned are simply whistling in the dark, because they do not want, as people born into Islam and unwilling or unable to leave it, have to keep convincing themselves that somehow, in a way they never explain, they will be able to convince many Muslims to simply give up the Hadith and the Sira, and leave "sola scriptura" - that is, the Qur'an -- and they then fail to recognize that the Qur'an alone is full of menace for Infidels, the Qur'an alone, if believed to be the Word of God, presents for Infidels a permanent and insolvable problem.

And if the Qur'an is here to stay, and cannot be changed, and if it is difficult to imagine circumstances in which a billion mostly very primitive people (made more primitive in their grasp of reality, and in their general understanding, by their adherence to Islam) would simply agree to ignore the Hadith and the Sira, then there is no chance that the tenets of Islam and the attitudes to which those tenets naturally give rise -- the hostility toward Infidels, the aggression, they hysteria so easily provoked by the slightest imagined slight to Islam, or to the Umma, or to the particular Muslim in question -- will change.

The very idea that, in order to fight "terrorists" one should shore up Muslim communities in the West, as the Home Secretary puts it, by "investing at local level to build resilient communities, which are equipped to confront violent extremism and support the most vulnerable individuals." is absurd. This will only make Muslims more secure, more sure of themselves, as they take Infidel money (as well as money from rich Muslims outside the country, paricularly the Saudis). There should be no attempt to create "resilient communities" in Great Britain. Indeed, the effort should be to cut off the lifeline of the Arab Money Weapon, so that mosques and madrasas have to close, and for private action, by Infidels, to boycott Muslim restaurants and stores, in order to make clear that the three or more decades of negligence about Islam is now at an end, and Infidels will do everything they can to halt and then reverse Muslim immigration, not least by removing as many of the benefits the governemnt so foolishly provides, and in cutting off the other sources of support from abroad.

Who, now living in Great Britain, would not, if he could turn the clock back forty years, knowing what he now knows, would have allowed in all those people from Paksitan? Who would have allowed those Muslim shopkeepers in Uganda, harassed by Idi Amin, to come to Great Britain, instead of insisting that they be repatriated to Pakistan? For that matter, what non-Muslims in Denmark, or the Netherlands, or France, or Sweden, or Belgium, or anywhere in Western Europe, if he muses on the matter of Muslim immigration -- whatever his current beliefs about what can or should be done -- would not, if he had the chance, undo the entire thing, turn the clock back, and this time, not make the series of disastrous mistakes that were made by the political and media elites, all over Europe, between the late 1960s until the day before yesterday, or perhaps until today.

The therapeutic state of those singing to Officer Krupke that "I'm depraved on account of I'm deprived" was, I thought, made sufficient fun of to be mocked out of fashion. I see that I was wrong. Perhaps there has been a misinterpretation of the supposed success of the Saudis when they manage to "un-radicalize" members of Al Qaeda. Of course they don't really do that. What they do do is convince some, not all, of these people, that it would be wrong, it would be an offense, it would be "hirabah," for Muslims to attack fellow Muslims. And all they do is convince those who supported Al Qaeda who are now in Saudi jails that they, the ruling Al-Saud, are good Muslims spending money to spread Islam all over, and doing a better job of it than Al-Qaeda does with its methods. That is what the Saudis do, that is their "therapy." The Home Secretary no doubt has no understanding of this, and certainly any local Muslims in Great Britain, slyly trying to get government funding and also to reinforce the idea that in its essence Islam is peaceful, Islam threatens no one. O yes it does. It threatens every Infidel in the world, and always will.

It would be good if those who fill such positions as Home Secretary had a sooterkins of sense, and a modicum of a sense of responsbility, enough to cause them to undertake a study of what Islam inculcates, and on which texts it relies, and on why that will never change, and what that means for Infidels.

But they won't.

Instead they will treat therepeutically a Complete Belief-System, a powerful ideology that offers what some may actually welcome, a system of Total Regulation, and this has great appeal. It will be money wasted, and time wasted, and meanwhile the clearing up of confusion among Infidels will be delayed again, as they confusedly accept, some of them, the judgment of their supposed betters. And they will continue to take false comfort in the notion of a "moderate Muslim" who, in most cases, will be a Muslim living in the West who, for current calculations of self-interest, will not participate directly but only indirectly in violent Jihad, And he will do that for reasons of calculated self-interest, because he understands that for now, Muslim interests in the West, and the solidifying of their position, requires less terrorism, for that tends to scare the Infidels, and for now we don't want them to be too scared. We want them to relax.

Posted by: Hugh at June 3, 2008 6:17 PM

Exile, imprisonment, or execution, according to law and due process.

Posted by: Hyman Roth at June 3, 2008 6:36 PM

It gets worse, it's time this government left. It's ideas are getting wackier and wackier.
Yet another benefit of mass immigration, there are just so many.
Sigh

Posted by: Ian at June 3, 2008 7:28 PM

Well said,Hugh.

Of course, those important powerful people who rule over us and who are supposed to protect us have way too many important things to do than read the koran, the hadith, the sira.

Posted by: the poetess at June 3, 2008 7:29 PM

"Community groups and councils in England and Wales will get cash from a £12.5m fund to implement the new measures."

This sounds suspiciously like a follow-up to the Preventing Violent Extremism Pathfinder Fund - not to be confused with the Preventing Violent Extremism Community Leadership Fund - both of which were launched by the Govt last year.

The PVE fund allows local councils to allocate money to Muslim groups that claim they are combatting extremism. It has already descended into farce, however, with money instead being awarded to Islamist front groups.

Tower Hamlets Council agreed to dole out cash to the Cordoba Foundation, a private company run by Anas al-Tikriti, the Muslim Brotherhood's main operative in the UK.

Cordoba runs the Muslim Debating Society, which in March this year organised a conference in Whitechapel at which an audience of young Muslims cheered when Dr Abdul-Wahid from Hizb ut-Tahrir and Makbool Javaid, a "legal observer" for the now banned al-Muhajiroun, told them that political participation in Britain was futile as democracy is forbidden in Islamic law, adding that only Islam was the solution to a moral crisis in Britain.

According to the local newspaper, Tower Hamlets council finally severed its contract with the Cordoba Foundation after the meeting was held, but still agreed to give them the £34,000 grant because it had promised it to them last year.

Matamoros (the original one)

Posted by: Matamoros at June 3, 2008 9:31 PM

The Communist government of the UK will not use the re-education camps for Muslim extremists. They will hunt down BNP candidates. The next time Nick Griffin goes to trial he will not return. The noose is getting tighter around the neck of the UK.

Posted by: Briars at June 3, 2008 10:28 PM

It's not up to the government to protect us. When is this going to sink in?

South v. Maryland (USSC 1856)
Ne Casek v. City of Los Angeles (1965)
Susman v. City of Los Angeles (1969)
Antique Arts Corp. v. City of Torrence (1974)
Hartzler v. City of San Jose (USSC 1975)
Warren v. District of Columbia (444 A.2d 1, 1981)
Bowers v. Devito (7th Cir. 1982)
Davidson v. City of Westminister (USSC 1982)
Westbrooks v. State (1985)
DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services (USSC 1989)

See below the DeShaney v. WCDSS cite.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0489_0189_ZS.html

Here's the point: Courts have consistently held that the government has no responsibility to provide any affirmative protection. If this is false, then list for all of us the names of the government employees who were fired a/o jailed because of the errors they made in permitting the 9/11/01 attacks... and all other attacks before and since.

AND, SINCE THEY HAVE NO OBLIGATION TO PROTECT ANY PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL, IT THEN FALLS TO YOU AND I TO PREPARE FOR AND, IF NEED BE, COMMIT CERTAIN REASONABLE AND LEGAL ACTS IN OUR OWN SELF-DEFENSE.

It matters what YOU do.

Posted by: undaunted at June 4, 2008 10:16 AM

"British police and councils have been told by the government to avoid putting some Islamic extremists through the criminal justice system.

Members of extremist groups that have not “clearly” committed a crime would receive therapy and counselling under new Government plans to de-radicalise religious fanatics."

What they actually mean is that they have lost control of their (over-capacity) prisons.

If the British government remains ignorant of or REFUSES to acknowledge the THREAT of islam to the United Kingdom then freedom and British culture will disappear under the shackles of dhimmification.

Islam is the problem and the British government refuses to acknowledge this. By refusing to name and identify the threat, the government has placed its citizens in one of the most precarious situations they have ever faced since WWII. The government has striped British citizens of self worth, hope and ambition by intentionally keeping them in perpetual poverty by clandestinely feeding an addiction to welfare. The government has striped British citizens of arms and rendered them defenceless. Defenceless against the REAL THREAT and defenceless against their own government.

The government has indoctrinated “multi-culturism in State run schools and "has created a situation wherein all facets of other cultures must be accepted ― no matter how malevolent ― at risk of great penalty to those who refuse to do so."

The looming confrontation between the conflict of self hatred and the threat of islam is potentially catastrophic to Great Britain.

The spread of dis-information and leftist propaganda through the media, the loss of control of immigration and more importantly the loss of authority & ability to govern with integrity, has rendered Great Britain to be currently in a very precarious situation.

Leftist indoctrination has citizens viewing George Bush as the enemy and the US as the biggest threat to world peace.

Muslims have had EVERY opportunity to moderate and integrate. Radicalism within islam is amplified on a carrier wave enabled and propped up by “The SILENCE of of the Moderate’s.

If 9/11 was a wake-up call, then the 7/7 bombings were just a hit on the snooze button for another apathetic lie-in.

Millions and millions of pounds are being funnelled into islamic studies, research groups and professional lobbyists under an a camouflaged umbrella of self perpetuating charities financed by major funding overseas. Immigration/Asylum Tribunals and advisory panels are dominated by whom? Britons or those with an agenda that serves the disintegration and demise of Great Britain.

Non-profit groups like the “Oxford Research Group “ One of the main aims of ORG and the Iran Action Group has been to make it politically unacceptable for the British government to support military strikes against Iran

Situations like The UK Government being denied permission to challenge an order that it take an Iranian opposition group off a list of banned terror organisations

And http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1938832/Islamic-preacher-Abu-Qatada-is-bailed.html >”The Home Office being FORCED to abandon plans to deport 12 Libyan fanatics

These rulings mean that not a single international terrorist has been forcibly removed from Great Britain..

Britons, your government is holding your country together by a very thin thread and it is seriously loosing its grip. With a desperate and enfeebled grip on the dull edge of Excalibur, it will be the government of the people that will be the assassin of Great Britain.

While I'm not sure this is going to work, I think we're on the right track in recognising religious extremism as a form of mental illness that requires treatment. If therapy doesn't work, perhaps we should look back to what we used to use before. Labotomy and Electroconvulsive therapy anyone?

Posted by: isalpha at June 5, 2008 9:20 AM

Can someone send Wafa Sultan's CV to the Home Office? I'm sure she could write them a splendid de-radicalisation program for Muslims...

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at June 6, 2008 6:47 PM