I wonder about Naseem, who left this site after having been accused of being an impostor; I thought she was real -- certainly an Ahmadi, even if possibly now an Ahmadi living in England rather than in Pakistan as she continued to claim.

And reading the article above, prompted me to find that one of her postings, about the mistreatment of Ahmadis, that was certainly not a fabrication, and that I well remember:

Here it is:

Assalamau-LAikum Plague,

You say "I'm glad for the sake of my own soul that I have not been put to the test like the Jews have been. I know that I would not pass muster".

That was a very interesting yet sad post. But you know I can relate with you but in a reverse way.

An Ahmdi boy in our neighourhood got badly beaten because he had insulted a sunni...we know that reporting to the police would do nothing....but we did anyway.

With the flick of his wrist the sunni policeman waved us away. "What is the crime here? he said...go away before I arrest you all"....and he meant it.

So we had to seek solace with Allah Ta'alah and really felt a need for out own homeland for the Ahmadi, but ofcourse that will never happen.

The Ahmadi will never resort to firing rockets like Hizbullah...but our intellect can help. I often spoke to Anwer when he was alive on the subject matter...and ofcourse he said that at least the infedel tried to be fair ...to start with anyway.

He said that if the infedel could see that the Ahmadi was different, relate to him and you could get them to covert to Ahmadi, perhaps we could finally outnumber and out monuevere the sunni.

Plague you peoples can help...always always support the Ahmadi....and make the necessary consessions and conversions to Ahmadi-ship.

Anwer would see sitting by Allah Taalah's side that his dreams are becoming true...please start those conversions...Plague ..you owe it to Anwer.

May Allah show you much mercy Plague

Allah Hafiz.

[Posted by: Naseem at July 31, 2006 5:57 PM]

The point is that Naseem herself continued to hold two contradictory notions in her head. She recognized the horrible treatment meted out to Ahmadis by mainstream Sunni Muslims. But she could not, would not, allow herself to be truthful about the violence and aggression and intolerance that is not accidental, but so much a part of mainstream Islam. That is, she could not allow herself to begin to make sense even of her own situation, and that of other Ahmadis, for that would mean having to think, or re-think, her commitment even to an admittedly slightly more benign version of, or some would say variant on, Islam.

The Ahmadis are not, on official forms in Pakistan, allowed to identify themselves as Muslims. In sub-Saharan Africa, because of their more relaxed view, they have historically been good missionaries for Islam, among black Africans who might be scared off by Islam taken straight up. What has happened, though, is that places perhaps initially islamized by Ahmadis have then been taken over, lock stock and madrasa-and-mosque barrel, by well-paid agents of the Saudis, that is of those spreading Wahhabi Islam. Muslims who left Niger for France, say, ten or even five years ago, and who have recently returned, are horrified at what has happened. And you know why Niger is important, don't you?

Posted by: Hugh at June 9, 2008 9:49 AM

This article is technically incorrect.

Indonesia's constitution guarantees freedom of religion, but many in the nation of 235 million consider it offensive that the sect does not recognize Muhammad as the "LAST" prophet.

The muslims dont care of any prophet before mohammad, only being infuriated if there is someone else after him.

after all, saying something 41 times makes it a reality. such reality creates power.

Posted by: tjwork at June 9, 2008 9:51 AM

Sounds reasonable to me.

(Now back to buttering my stuffed owl.)

Posted by: profitsbeard at June 9, 2008 10:26 AM

As long as Allah Taalah's in the picture there will always be trouble. Ahmadiyya may be the lesser of two evils, but the lesser of two evils is still evil...

Posted by: duh_swami at June 9, 2008 10:38 AM

Muslim paranoia regarding insults - real or imaginary - goes back to the founder of Islam himself. The Jews laughed at Mahomet; they derided him (quite rightly) as a deluded false prophet. Thus the murderous, paranoid hatred of the Jews that has always been at the heart of the murderous, paranoid cult of Islam.

Posted by: StrulZigelboim at June 9, 2008 12:33 PM

What happened to the old "there is no compulsion in religion"?

Oh, yeah. It was abrogated.

Posted by: tanstaafl at June 9, 2008 12:36 PM

Hugh, I'm glad to see that my exchanges with Naseem did you some good. I wonder how she's doing these days.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at June 9, 2008 2:56 PM

Where are our forthright leaders now, who are happy to fight the enemies of freedom with troops and military action of all types? Why never rhetorically, where the playing field is just as lopsided as the battlefield?

Posted by: Quijybo at June 9, 2008 3:49 PM

Islam is about honour and piety, not love of neighbour and service to others.

Our existence as non-Muslims says that we think that Islam is not worth belonging to. Our existence is an insult to Islam. If this were not the case, they why don't they just leave this sect alone.

Islam is a dangerously supremacist and aggressive religion. People deny that truth to their peril.

Posted by: James Martel at June 9, 2008 5:23 PM

And to think that our U.S. State Department removed Indonesia from the list that specified which nations were guilty of violating freedom of religion.

Posted by: alaskan1000 at June 9, 2008 6:49 PM

And Europeans are also going to jail for insulting Islam; note the Finnish man, Seppo.

Posted by: Voltaire at June 9, 2008 7:14 PM

"I thought she was real"

But RS did not think that.

*

Hugh, I'm glad to see that my exchanges with Naseem did you some good. I wonder how she's doing these days.

Posted by: A_Plague_on_Both_Houses at June 9, 2008 2:56 PM

I reiterate: RS did not think "Naseem" was a real Muslim, or that it was a "she." That's what I recall.

I think "she" was a fraud as well. English too good. Especially when "she" got mad. That's what exposed "her" as an imposter.

So, what happened to "her?"

Posted by: darcy at June 9, 2008 8:06 PM

In what meaningful sense does Indonesia have "secular values"?

Posted by: aynrandgirl at June 9, 2008 10:55 PM

many in the nation of 235 million consider it offensive that the sect does not recognize Muhammad as the only prophet.
...........................

As TJWork noted, Mohammed is usually considered the *last* prophet, or "seal of prophets". Abraham (Ibrahim), and Moses (Musa), and even Jesus (Issa) are all considered Muslim prophets. Oddly, though, anything they had to teach the world is entirely forgotten by Muslims, in favor of the Dark Ages warlord creed of Mohammed.

Posted by: gravenimage at June 10, 2008 4:20 PM