My God, how I loathe the Saudis and all they represent. Any non-muslim sentient human being should feel,similarly. That being said, there is always value for one who believes in free speech such as I and as Robert does, to allowing these clowns to speak their minds in public, for all to see.

May God bless free speech in all forms, Robert Spencer, and specifically for this gem, Marisol (at Midnight) Seibold.

Posted by: awake at June 22, 2008 12:22 AM

Much appreciated. Right back atcha.

Posted by: MarisolJW at June 22, 2008 1:02 AM

Awake,

I 'second' your comment to Marisol. Interesting find (at al-Reuters, nonetheless.)

Robert is right about this monologue being held in Spain - the propaganda value is too much.

Same if the meeting were held in Rome. We know the muslims have Rome in their sights.

Question though? How many of the Saudis would show up if this venue was to be in Jerusalem?

Oh, I forgot: They would never have proposed it.

Posted by: boneshack at June 22, 2008 1:19 AM

Boneshack-- thanks.

I write the commentary on my postings, though I definitely assimilate aspects of the writing style of anyone I've recently read a lot of... which makes it tempting to bone up on Dr. Seuss during the upcoming 4th of July holiday.

Posted by: MarisolJW at June 22, 2008 1:30 AM

From an earlier thread.. Looks like my German National Football MANNSCHAFT will be able to strike another BLOW against encroaching islam - and those ugly islamist flags in our very own lands - when we dispatch Turkey from the EUROPEAN Cup once and for all.

If we lose the Final against hose lovable intrepid RUNNING RUSIANS.. yes I will CRY.. but these young Russians will have EARNED their way there..

The never-say-die Russians who just knocked off my personal pick Holland as much as I hate them - would be an honorable opponent in the Final!!

Deutschland - Rußland.. LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!

A TRUE CLASSIC for the AGES!!

TWO exuberant RUNNING TEAMS.. he tactical smart Germans Professionals versus the UNLIMITED talent of the Russian KINDERGARTEN!!!!

That's one team I won't gripe about losing against.

If I weren't a German I'd be long on their bandwagon!

RUS!!!!!

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at June 22, 2008 3:54 AM

And as the SOWdis go.. they'd be TROUNCED in the Eurocup. no matter WHO they played..

Take that to maca put it in yer [water]pipe and SMOKE it!!!

The JEWISH women in New York say Germany will win the CUP so ya better believe it!!

It's gonna happen with iron precision..

Yep, they see our WILL since 2006 getting cheated out of the Finale..

This is OUR TIME...

We'll own the FOURTH COPA!!!!!!

But if I can hedge.. the Russians ain't half bad.

The Jewish Ladies I been talking to discount the Russkies so they are giving us a LOT of Love if not knowledge.. they just seem to think it's our time ponce again..
As in when the Germans really want something they will get it..

As long as it's something positive like winning the EUROPE Cup an unprecedented FOURTH time I am on board!!

Let's see how fast those tyrkey flags disappear from our GERMAN windows!!!!

But if not WE.. RUUUUUSKIEEEE. you guys are playing your HEARTS OUT and many of your European Brother wish you the BEST!!!!

Based on this intrepid young Russian team.... and their fanatic supporters.. dangerously shirtless and all.. How can any but their direct opponents not embrace this fearless never-say-die squad?!

I want them to face Germany in the Final!!

What a beautiful game that will be!!

Abondon and talent vs, skill and cool tactic!

Yes, and we Germans have just a bit of talent ourselves..

Let's take down those tyrq flags we had so see in those German Homes..

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at June 22, 2008 4:18 AM

We Germans would HATE to lose to a team which is so clearly beneath us. If we lose to the nascent Russians surely none of us will be happy but we will pay respect to a great and wonderful team who are ringing in Russia's return into the European Fold.

RUSSIA is part of Europe. No more war between any of us ever again I hope..

The Russian Football Team is the best ambassadors you RUS guys ever had..

The BEST of luck to you.. not that you need it.. I KNOW you will know out those eternally-cheating [yrs of course they will beat those bumbling Spaniards] Italians in the Semis..

More likely than not.. we Germans will be waiting for you!!!

RUSSIA!!.. versus GERMANY!!!!!! yep. that's the score

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at June 22, 2008 4:29 AM

"Spain's history as an Islamic posession and the trumped-up myth the nearly utopian, Islamic Andalusia of yore"

Oh, I love this expression. I have a good Spanish friend who has swallowed this "myth" hook, line and sinker. She LOVES to mention the "Arab influence on Spain". She can't have a conversation on the topic of Spain and Spanish culture without mentioning the "Arab influence". It doesn't matter if she's talking about Spanish cuisine, Spanish art, Spanish lanuage, Spanish culture. She has to mention the Arab influence. She is a very beautiful raven-haired, dark-eyed, semi-dark-skinned Spanish beauty and she will even point to her own self and say "See, I obviously have Arabic blood. My hair and eyes are so dark; what's the point of trying to deny it?". She's right. There's no point in trying to deny it. But do you really have to love and adore it so much? Although she doesn't practice her Catholic religion anymore she has a great deal of respect for the Church, so I asked her how she can be so benevolent when speaking about a religion and a conquest that raped her country, murdered her ancestors, tried to destroy the Church, and kept the whole nation under oppression for 700 years? Sure it's part of history, but why the almost undying love for it? I don't get it. So they left their mark on the hair color of Spaniards and in the cuisine. So freakin' what? What's so great about the Islamic conquest that this period of Spanish history has to be so lauded? I think it's ignorance. I don't think my friend or most other Spaniards really undestand what was done to their country and their ancestors. And my Spanish friend will defend the Islamists by saying criticizing the very Crusaders who liberated her land. Ironic, isn't it?? I once got angry and told her that I almost believe she would be just as happy if Spain had never been librated and was still Islamist. She didn't deny it. She's just ignorant like so many others who think Islam is a magical, exotic religion and benevolent.

Posted by: Madame Vengier at June 22, 2008 7:39 AM

"she [a Spanish friend] will even point to her own self and say "See, I obviously have Arabic blood. My hair and eyes are so dark; what's the point of trying to deny it?". She's right. There's no point in trying to deny it."

One reason "to deny it" is because there are all kinds of reasons to think she is attached, sentimentallly, to a myth of being more exotic in her ancestry than perhaps she is. And the very idea of "having Arab blood" therefore making one more prone to justifying or defending Islam -- an ideology that has essentially ruined the Arabs, and ruined others who had their own pre-Islamic pasts, their own cultural and linguistic histories, put paid to, in so many places, by the arabization that accompanied islamization -- makes as little sense as someone of Russian descent defending Stalin and the Comintern, or someone of German descent being enthusiastic about Hitler, Himmler, and the whole crew.

Leaving aside the fact that most of North Africa was Berber -- and under the Arab names, and the false consciousness of being Arab, many of those "
"Arabs" can be seen, through analysis of DNA, to have Berber origins, which might provide a salutary shock to those "Arabs" who suppoort the suppression of the Berber language, culture, and political rights -- all over what is called, too carelessly, the "Arab world," one discovers that Arab-Islamic imperialism, that favoring the original conquerors out of the Arabian peninsula (extending into preent-day Jordan), rests largely on the ability to convince those non-Muslims and non-Arabs conquered by Muslim Arabs -- the Muslims being the "best of peoples" and the Arabs being, among the Muslims, the very best of Muslims -- that if they used Arabic, and took Arabic names, they could often be considered Arabs, and promoted to that status, permanently.

What makes your raven-haired think her looks are not purely Spanish, Roman Spain, or Spain of the (unpleasant) Visigoths? Are we now to conclude that every raven-haired beauty is of Arab descent? And what about the Berbers, the main conquerors of Spain? The Berbers were forcibly islamized by the Arab conquerors, but before that the population of North Africa was Christian.

And, of course, she might also seek her ancestor -- the one responsible for her dark hair and dark eyes, among the Jews, who at one time made up nearly one-third of the population of the Spain, and perhaps even more of the population of those who went to New Spain, and to Brazil.

Posted by: Hugh at June 22, 2008 8:17 AM

"What makes your raven-haired think her looks are not purely Spanish (etc..)"

Exactly! And I asked her that. She said she knows because certain parts of Spain have heavier Arab influence than other parts and she's from that part. But her brother (same parents) is blonde-haired and blue-eyed, so I really think she's just full of it and doesn't know what she's talking about. Like you said, she has some sentimental attachment to thinking that her own ancestry is more exotic than it really is. But the bigger issue was not about her looks, but about the fact that she's a Spaniard who has enormous hero-worship for a people and a culture that has systematically raped and overrun other countries, including her own. It's a major bone of contention in our friendship and a topic I try to avoid with her because it makes me so angry.

Posted by: Madame Vengier at June 22, 2008 9:56 AM

"Saudi-led "interfaith" meeting to be held in... Spain"

Interfaith meeting don't go over well in Saudi Arabia...something about Death to Infidels that they preach.

Posted by: pulsar182 at June 22, 2008 10:15 AM

I think it will be interesting to see the crew that the Saudis will assemble for this obvious agitprop op.

Posted by: stickman at June 22, 2008 11:25 AM

I don't think my friend or most other Spaniards really undestand what was done to their country and their ancestors. And my Spanish friend will defend the Islamists by saying [sic] criticizing the very Crusaders who liberated her land. Ironic, isn't it??

Ironic in that she resents the very country that nurtured her ability to avoid contributing to nothing more than its consumerism and tax base.

Perhaps freedom really does have to be earned to be understood, appreciated, enjoyed, and protected. Or bought, no leased, with the blood, limbs, life and sacrifices of their own persons or relations. And by each generation, lest you produce specimens like the above, which have become all too common, bored with the usual amusements, turning to flirting with dangerous idiocies dressed as profundities.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at June 22, 2008 1:04 PM

This is yet another effort to put lipstick on the Islamic pig.The Christians and Jews are there for cover and to lend an air of legitimacy to this "interfaith" meeting.If the Saudis really wanted to promote "peace" and "living together in the world", they would start in their own house. One good place to start would be to end the practice of teaching Islamic hatred and supremacy in their schools. That would include the Saudi sponsored school in Virginia.A school that produced the only valedictorian in American history convicted of plotting to kill a President of the United States.

Posted by: Roxane at June 22, 2008 1:14 PM

And it will be convenient near by to the Saudi billionaires’ residences at Costa del Sol in Andalusia. After strenuous and trying meeting with all kind of hell bound infidels it might be convenient to be able to pop over to the residences in infidel land for a strengthening drink.

Isn’t the Islamite piggybacking leftist invited to interfaith?

Posted by: Engelbrekt at June 22, 2008 1:24 PM

And by each generation, lest you produce specimens like the above, which have become all too common, bored with the usual amusements, turning to flirting with dangerous idiocies dressed as profundities.
Posted by: Concerned Citizen

How long did it take the Poles or Ukrainians and all other Eastern European countries to climb out from under the heavy yoke of Communism? Oh how their 'intelligentsia' loved it at first, flirting with this socially progressive Communist idea of total mind and body domination. Only baby steps away from total body and mind domination of Islam in its pure form Sharia. Oh how they love to flirt with these dangerous ideas, then when freedom is lost, they will cry for generations until liberated again... Only to repeat. Human nature perhaps?

Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at June 22, 2008 1:25 PM

So, why don't we ask to Saudi Arabia to make in Saudi Arabia NOWADAYS the myth of tolerant Andalusia become a reality?

Freedom for all religions ... tolerance ...

If Saudi Arabia did this, than, Saudi Arabia could be believable!!!

In the meantime Saudi Arabia stays what it is ...

Posted by: Coaltaxopeuh at June 22, 2008 2:55 PM

If Saudi Arabia did this, [then] Saudi Arabia could be believable!!!

Good point. Boycott and protest this "interfaith dialogue" until the "World Muslim League" changes the venue to be hosted in Saudi Arabia.

WHAT, it would be against the law there to try to find common theological grounds and compromises, discuss the Jewish and Christian scriptures, and to bring our Bibles for references? What the hell?!? What are y'all, a bunch of Islamophobes??

(Large, loud, noisy and especially photogenic protests. Flames, tattered flags, thrashing and grotesque effigies always look good on camera. We do have some things to learn from them.)

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at June 22, 2008 3:06 PM

mADAME I SUGGEST YOU SHOULD SAY TO YOUR FRIEND AS I HAVE RESPONDED TO OTHERS LIKE HER AND THE MYTH OF ISLAM AND THERE ENVY OF IT .
Very simple i agree with ya hun i think you should be controlled to in a burka no rights no nothing stove kitchen and you should be a baby factory for islam i think its a great idea you should convert this way when you want to go to the store and theres no male family members around when you leave your house you can be beaten by a stick by any muslim male that sees you unescorted i think your right you should no be allowede to think for your self.

Posted by: spcbat at June 22, 2008 4:11 PM

I wonder why they chose to hold this meeting in the same week as the (Catholic) World Youth Day (week event) in Sydney.

http://www.wyd2008.org/

Posted by: payingattention at June 22, 2008 7:00 PM

Most things I've seen that are "interfaith" are touchy feely let's sweep differences under the rug..anotherwords, most do not know what they believe and water God's message down as to not "offend" others.

With that aside, I wonder if the Christians will be allowed to point out where the koran says they must be killed and for the muslims to "remove it kindly". Wonder how that'll go over? /rolls eyes

Posted by: diaphanous at June 22, 2008 10:08 PM

What *I* would like to see during this conference?

Large groups of philosemitic and pro-Israeli Christians wearing stars of David and parading up and down the streets of Madrid wearing T-shirts inscribed with the words "I am a Gharkad tree" in English, Arabic and Spanish. (The Muslims will instantly understand the allusion to Hamas' favourite Hadith concerning the Muslim view of the end-times -

"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews. - Sahih Muslim 41.6985 (Similar sayings in Bukhari 4.52.176 and 177.)").

Are there any counter-jihadis in Madrid bold enough to organise public readings of selected chapters of Andrew Bostom's "The Legacy of Islamic Antisemitism" (portions dealing with Spain), "Legacy of Jihad" (ditto), and "The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians Under Islam" (ditto), or salon-style discussion groups, perhaps taking over a sidewalk cafe or two, focusing on same?

See how long it takes for the smiling Saudi mask to peel off.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at June 23, 2008 2:16 AM

The Modern Swiss Are Crusaders... But Islam is nothing but nice.

Posted by: A Simple Sinner at June 23, 2008 8:27 PM

Or, god forbid, it could be a good-will gesture since Spain is in a rather unique historical position, being a region where each of the three Abrahamic religions held much sway at one point in time, but none of them reign today seeing as it's a secular state. Leaving everyone on equal political footing.

Full disclosure; I'm Saudi (Oh boy, here comes the s***storm)

Posted by: Omega at June 24, 2008 7:58 AM

I am so tired of this 'three Abrahamic religions' nonsense.

For the benefit of any new or future reader, here, who has been bamboozled by it:

Judaism and Christianity are Abrahamic religions, based on the records of the self-revelation of YHWH.

Islam is not. Islam is a monotheistic paganism.

Islam has appropriated (and grossly distorted) some persons and stories from Jewish and Christian sources, in what amounts to brazen identity theft. Same thing applies to the divinity: the claim that the Arabs' war-god and divine slave-master is 'the same' as YHWH the loving parent, covenant-maker, covenant-keeper and LIBERATOR of slaves, is... passport fraud.

Dr Mark Durie's little book 'Revelation? Do Muslims and Christians Worship the Same God?' and Jacques Ellul's excellent essay, 'The Three Pillars of Conformity' make it clear that there is NOTHING meaningful in common between the way that Jews and Christians understand the character of God and the relations between God and man, and the way that Islam conceives of these things.

The Jewish scholar and philosopher Franz Rosenzweig drew exactly the same distinction, early last century: he places Christianity and Judaism together, over against all other systems of belief; and he identified Islam as a version of paganism. It is not polytheism, sure. But it is pagan, that is, non-biblical and in fact ANTI-biblical, through and through.

There is, of course, a different line that can be drawn, and Ali Sina, and Bill Warner of the Centre for the Study of Political Islam, have defined it: there are belief systems that recognise and teach the Golden Rule ('do to others as you would they should do unto you') as a universal principle, i.e. 'others' = at least potentially, 'all other human beings'; and then there are belief systems that do not.

Nazism was one such denier of the Golden Rule (benevolence was supposed to extend ONLY to fellow-Aryans, all other humans were dehumanised, to be treated as prey, enslaved, or exterminated); Islam is another - "those who follow him [Muhammad] are ruthless to the Unbelievers but merciful to one another". That is: kindness to fellow Muslims ONLY; but toward kafir, unless and until they convert, CRUELTY.

Ali Sina's line - between the 'Golden Rule' systems, and those that deny it and teach the opposite to the Rule - puts Jews, Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Taoists, and many other groups, on one side of a line; and Islam, with such shortlived nasties as Satanism and Nazism (and systems such as that of the ancient Aztecs, most likely) on the other.

We don't need a 'three Abrahamic religions' conference.

We need a Great Kafir Conference, of all the great non-Muslim world religions, and including atheists and agnostics of good will, to discuss how we are going to deal with those who follow the Quran's instructions to curse us and make unceasing war upon us.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at June 24, 2008 9:21 AM

By definition, any monotheistic religion that follows the teaching of Abraham as part of its history or teaching is considered an Abrahamic religion. And seeing as there's no doubt that Islam is a monotheistic religion, plus the fact that Abraham is mentioned in the Koran more than any other prophet except Moses, I'd say it's hard to argue that Islam, by design, is not an Abrahamic faith.

And Islam not following the Golden Rule? Not quite. Though I can't speak for the acts of some Muslims today, the Koran itself has this to say; "“Woe to those . . . who, when they have to receive by measure from men, exact full measure, but when they have to give by measure or weight to men, give less than due”". Add to that that in his last Sermon, Mohammad said "Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.".

Posted by: Omega at June 24, 2008 10:39 AM

Dearest Omega,

"Abraham" is not mentioned once in the Qur'an. "Ibrahim" is mentioned a lot, but is not the same character. This has been explored so many times on this site, further discussion is not required. I refer you to Durie's book for your introduction:

http://www.cityharvest.org.au/shop/index.php?main_page=pubs_product_book_info&products_id=100

The Islamic Golden Rule canard has like wise been over done. Please refer to the search engine to the left of the frame on the main page.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at June 24, 2008 12:15 PM

Omega,

By the way, I'm sorry I forgot that you can't order that book in your country. Rules and all. But perhaps you can be our inside contact to facilitate the "interfaith dialogue" being held in Saudi. Thanks.

Oh, and welcome to JihadWatch.

P.S. I'm glad you've missed the dualism and abrogation in Islam. Teach others to do the same.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at June 24, 2008 12:38 PM

BTW, Omega,

I thought among Mo's last words were some related to these:

Book 019, Number 4366:
It has been narrated by 'Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen...m/019.smt.html

Yahya related to me from Malik from Ibn Shihab that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Two deens shall not co-exist in the Arabian peninsula." Malik said that Ibn Shihab said, ''Umar ibn al-Khattab searched for information about that until he was absolutely convinced that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, had said, 'Two deens shall not co-exist in the Arabian peninsula,' and he therefore expelled the jews from Khaybar." (Book #45, Hadith #45.5.18)

I guess you're going to say no one was "hurt" during that?

Posted by: Concerned Citizen at June 24, 2008 1:10 PM