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Islamic Tolerance Alert from the Islamic Republic: "Iran: Authorities ‘Temporarily’ Release Badly Injured Christian: Local police demand US$43,000 bail from convert’s family," from Compass Direct News, July 3:
ISTANBUL, July 3 (Compass Direct News) – After four weeks in police custody, Iranian Christian Mohsen Namvar was released “temporarily” last week to return to his home in Tehran.A doctor summoned to Namvar’s home after his release last Thursday (June 26) administered medicines and serum to treat the badly beaten prisoner.
The physician reported that the 44-year-old house church leader had a fever and very high blood pressure. “His body is still in shock,” one Iranian Christian told Compass, “and his hands and feet are shaking all the time.”
The source added, “Maybe they were afraid he would die in prison.”
Arrested on May 31 from his home in Tehran, the convert from Islam was kept incommunicado until his release on June 26. Although once someone called his home saying he was all right, “It was not his voice,” a source told Compass.
Namvar has refused to answer questions from his wife about his weeks under arrest, saying, “Don’t ask me anything.” He has also avoided removing his clothes in her presence to prevent her from seeing the extent of his injuries.
“They put a great deal of pressure on his body and his mind,” the source said. “No one knows exactly what they did to him during those four weeks.”
Noting that government authorities know a great deal about Namvar’s Christian activities and want to punish him, the source said, “We praise the Lord that they have not killed him.”
Namvar was unable to walk for several months after he was arrested and severely tortured with electrical shocks in the spring of 2007, allegedly for baptizing Muslims who had become Christians.
Stiff Bail Demand
Last week local secret police authorities demanded that Namvar’s family put up just over US$43,000 in bail to secure his release, which they cautioned would only last for “a short time.”
Relatives came up with half of the bail demand and then borrowed the rest, but when they requested a formal receipt for the cash handed over on June 26, police refused to supply one.
“Don’t say anything,” a police official reportedly ordered them. “Give thanks to God that we are not keeping him under arrest.”
The imprisoned Christian’s case did not come before any local court or magistrate, his family has confirmed. “All of the authorities are thieves,” commented one Iranian Christian living abroad. “This bail was not ordered by a judge at all. The police are just putting this money in their own pockets.”
Police authorities who raided Namvar’s home while arresting him had already confiscated a large sum of cash along with his computer, printer, CDs and books.
During the past few years, courts have ordered arrested Christians to turn over their property deeds as bail collateral before releasing prisoners. But over recent months, the secret police have dispensed with court proceedings and demanded cash payments from the prisoners’ families.
Ongoing Threats
Ten days after Namvar’s arrest, police again ransacked and searched his home, threatening his wife Fereshteh and making intimidating comments to her.
About the same time, the couple’s 12-year-old son was approached at school by a stranger who offered to take him home, “because your father is not here.” But the lad first called his mother, who instructed him not to accompany the stranger. Since then the worried mother has escorted him to and from school every day.
During the weeks Namvar was under arrest, his wife was also subjected to a number of threatening telephone calls. Because she and her husband had rejected Islam, the anonymous callers said, “We must punish you, and we must kill you.”...
Posted by Robert at July 6, 2008 7:28 AM
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Churches in England, in America, around the world, might pay more attention to the martyrs of today. Not the Muslim "martyrs" or shahids who win their ticket to Heaven by mass-murder of innocents, but the Christian martyrs who suffer for their faith, as this man, Namvar, has so clearly done.
Martyrs are not only to be found in early Christianity. They are here, today, in Muslim lands. Find out about them. Make sure everyone in your congregation -- including those who may be roused to action -- is aware of this, and gives names, knows about, the individual sufferers, so as to bring home the reality.
Don't forget Bishop John Joseph, in Pakistan, who out of total despair killed himself. Don't forget the decapitated schoolgirls in Indonesia, the bombed churches and kidnapping and murder of a Bishop and of many Christians in Iraq. Don't forget the massacres of Christians in Damour in Lebanon.
Posted by: Hugh![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at July 6, 2008 7:59 AM
It is really a terrible shame that converts in Iran and other Islamic countries are met with so much violence. It makes you ashamed of being a Muslim. I wish I could do something.
Posted by: Amal.Mamoul at July 6, 2008 8:31 AM
Amal.Mamoul:
It would help to remove (Hadith 2:483) and (Hadith 9:57) for starters.
Posted by: Mackie at July 6, 2008 10:11 AM
There are about 500 verses in the Qur’an that speak of Allah’s hatred for non-Muslims and the punishment that he has prepared for their unbelief. .
Posted by: Mackie at July 6, 2008 10:20 AM
Amal.Mamoul -
How about getting rid of these teachings in the Koran? That would be a start. Somehow I don't think that's happening anytime soon.
http://conservativecolloquium.wordpress.com/2008/03/11/violent-and-intolerant-quran-verses/
at July 6, 2008 10:21 AM
It makes you ashamed of being a Muslim. I wish I could do something.AmalPosted by: Amal.Mamoul at July 6, 2008 8:31 AM
Being ashamed of being a Mohammedan is a good first step. A good second step would be to stop being one.
Do you live in dar ul Islam or bilad ul Kafir? If the former, I guess you don't have much choice but to pretend to be part of the crowd, while privately jettisoning Islam altogether. If the latter, dump Islam, and all your Mohammedan associates (since they, like Iran or other Islamic regimes, are likely to want to come after you for leaving their cult) and start a new life as anything else - Atheist, Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Confucian, anything.
You'll be a lot better for it.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at July 6, 2008 11:04 AM
Mackie,
I hope in advance that you will execuse my poor English. I don't use it very often, that is why. But I assure you that if I had the authority to do such, I'd certainly love to remove the two hadiths you mentioned (I suppose these are the ones which say that Mohammed was ordered to kill every one who won't accept the Islam). I even doubt if any one has this authority. It is a disgrace for a prophet to force people to believe his religion by threatening to kill them! The only thing I can do is to tell my fellow Muslims that you can't blindly believe the hadith because it was registered about 130 years after the death of Mohammed.
at July 6, 2008 11:13 AM
It makes you ashamed of being a Muslim. I wish I could do something.
Posted by: Amal.Mamoul
Ashamed or not, the Quran, Ahadith as Sira, carry and call for the abuses you are ashamed of.
As long as you believe in these, you have a reason to be ashamed. But what choice do you have, just your shame statement is enough to royally pzz off many of your brothers, how can you be ashamed of being a participant in perfectness?
Maybe the thing you should do is apostate yourself...Go to Faithfreedom.org, and see what former muslims have to say about their apostacy. You might find friends who will help you with your dilemma...
at July 6, 2008 11:13 AM
Infidel Pride (I like your name), and Mo,
The truth is that I do dissaprove of a lot of Islam's teachings, especially about women and the freedom of conciousness. I'm actually living in Europe. Technically speaking I can leave my faith and even become a Christian. Somtimes I contemplate this idea. That will actually mean cutting myself completely from my familly who stil lives in the Middel-East. Although I don't agree with many of their idea's, I find it difficult to never see them again, especially because they are honest and kind people.
at July 6, 2008 11:29 AM
Good luck, Hugh, in finding a church that cares more about their own martyrs than their music programs. I have often talked to my fellow Christians in church about this very topic, since the 1980s, but the eyes glaze over, the ennui. The unbearable ennui. Occasionally, there was a glimmer of interest during the whole Timisoara affair, but more often than not, the industry driving the modern churches today is Christian karaoke machine. Church has become "American Idol" for the Christian pop artists of tomorrow. I don't even bother going any more. Too depressing.
Posted by: Jewel Atkins at July 6, 2008 11:56 AM
when you are trapped in Islam, there is virtually no escape, you must submit or you must die...that's they way they wrote their rules..basically..
Posted by: exsgtbrown at July 6, 2008 12:28 PM
exsgtbrown,
I'm afraid you are right. Even here in Europe you can face many troubles from other Muslims if you publicly leave Islam. I'm sure there will be many people leaving if they were not so frightend and intimidated.
at July 6, 2008 12:57 PM
Any "religion" whose adherents call for the death of apostates and unbelievers should lose its religion status.
It should also follow that if its "religious leaders" call for the death of unbeilievers, that "religion" should be classified more as a cult, or political ideology and less a religion.
Posted by: PorkFatRules at July 6, 2008 1:09 PM
" I'm sure there will be many people leaving if they were not so frightend and intimidated.
Posted by: Amal.Mamoul ""
That day is coming. One of the reasons the violent Muslim hate Freedom of Speech is because there are so many articles and books and blogs and speeches now becoming prevelant that tears into to the very fabric of the long dominant control the Muslim leaders have had over their people..For centuries Muslims have had complete control over their people enforced by the blade and the the fear of death. With the advent of cellphones, TV, Internet, and the ever increasing numbers of westerners who are recognizing Islam's grand plan for world domination and the methods it uses to acomplish this, the Muslims plans are unraveling...You see Muslims panicking over cartoons, news reports, film videos of Muslims beheading someone, film videos of Muslims rioting in the streets, film videos of Muslims in the streets promising a new holocaust, promising death of all infidels, promising the the destruction on one nation or the other, videos of Muslims gleefully dragging the bodies of the victims in the streets or of the bodies of their victims hanging somewhere...Mass graves of Muslim victims continue to be found..the evidence keeps piling up that Islam is violent. Then then is evidence to the silent or stealth Jihad that is going on, the slow but steady infiltration of the MUslims into every sector of the infidel , circling much as a shark plays with and circles it prey before attacking. The Muslims keep making one demand , then another, then another and the infidels keep wavering, but the Infidels are beginning to stiffen and to fight back...and the power of freedom of speech is quickly spreading the alarm...it is why the Muslims are doing all they can to silence it..
But the tide is ever so slowly turning...and Time is running out for the Muslims to make their big push..it is all or nothing time.
at July 6, 2008 1:38 PM
'and the power of freedom of speech is quickly spreading the alarm'
Posted by: Pulsar 182
Even though this may be true for some Muslims in Europe and the US., I'm afraid it is not the case for most Muslims in Islamic countries. Even the intellectuals there are too much indoctrinated with the idea of the Evil West who wants to destroy them, the big plot of US and the Jews against the Islam and the Muslims, so much so that when talking with them I don't even know where to start. But luckily there are more Muslims like me, who are only social Muslims in Europe and who are starting to realize what a terrible miss Islam is.
Posted by: Amal.Mamoul at July 6, 2008 2:00 PM
Amal.Mamoul, I want to encourage you to continue to add your comments both at Dhimmiwatch and JW. Your perspective is one seldom heard from here and it is even more seldom there is a chance to trade comments back and forth.
I'm beginning to see an interesting contrast in the postions of the blogging at JW and http://www.faithfreedom.org/. Hugh continues to write, hopefully, that Islam can be moderated. That perhaps the pre-Islamic traditions of Persia will encourage todays Iranian people to cast off Islam. Ali Sina, conversely, writes that "Islam can't be reformed, but it can be eradicated."
The explanations someone like Amal.Mamoul may give for why it is so difficult to become apostate, even for Muslims in Europe, may help us better understand if we should hope for reform or eradication. Either would be good, I hope for the latter. It can't be fixed. Throw it away.
Posted by: Richard at July 6, 2008 3:04 PM
That will actually mean cutting myself completely from my familly who stil lives in the Middel-East. Although I don't agree with many of their idea's, I find it difficult to never see them again, especially because they are honest and kind people.Of all the reasons I've heard for not jettisoning Islam, the above is the only one (other than blatant intimidation and fear) that makes any sense.
Posted by: Amal.Mamoul
I know it's difficult for one to make such major breaks with one's family. OTOH, I have friends and relatives who are opposite of me in terms of viewpoints: while I recognize that religion is something far higher, I think the onus of not cutting ties with you if you jettison Islam should be on your family, not you.
But that's your call.
Posted by: Infidel Pride at July 6, 2008 3:21 PM
Amal means hope, Richard.
Posted by: Jewel Atkins at July 6, 2008 3:22 PM
"Even though this may be true for some Muslims in Europe and the US., I'm afraid it is not the case for most Muslims in Islamic countries. Even the intellectuals there are too much indoctrinated with the idea of the Evil West who wants to destroy them, the big plot of US and the Jews against the Islam and the Muslims, so much so that when talking with them I don't even know where to start. But luckily there are more Muslims like me, who are only social Muslims in Europe
unfortunately amal there are a fair number of muslims that come to the west and bring their islamic superiority complex with them and still act like the only law that they must follow is the sharia and we get honor killings etc among them and scoaily unacceptable behavior from them in fact i had one sommoli couple who were forcing peaple from the side walk into the gutter because
they were not muslims and the koran says thats were kufers muslt walk if a muslim is present they eavn tried to force my wheelchair into the gutter
a lot of muslim immigrants to the west try to recreate to muslim socitys they left instead of assimilating jim
and who are starting to realize what a terrible miss Islam is."
Posted by: Amal.Mamoul
at July 6, 2008 4:22 PM
'unfortunately amal there are a fair number of muslims that come to the west and bring their islamic superiority complex with them and still act like the only law that they must follow is the sharia and we get honor killings etc among them and scoaily unacceptable behavior from them'
Posted by: ISAMNOTFORME
You are right. I think that such people should not come to the West. Actually they are using the hospitality of the West in a shameful way. I wish Western countries would be more careful about who they let in
Posted by: Amal.Mamoul at July 6, 2008 4:49 PM
Yeah, they bring it with them. Anybody remember the Achille Lauro?
http://www.specialoperations.com/Images_Folder/library2/achille.html
I had a Muslim friend in college, 25 years ago. He approached me as we were quickly being assigned lab partners on the first day of an engineering lab. I was able to depend on him to hold up his end of getting a good grade, and we socialized some as well as studying together a fair amount in both the undergraduate and graduate programs of our school. Born in Jordan, he spoke with a bit of a British twang. He considered himself a Palestinian because his father was born there, though he was born in Jordan. I didn't really figure that out.
I saw him argue with Jews about Palestine and just wished they could leave it off campus so I could study engineering in peace. I watched him try to find an American girlfriend to marry him so he wouldn’t have to go into the Jordanian military when his student visa expired upon his graduation. The first one was a genuine girlfriend, the second a more deliberate shill. He showed me pictures from meetings of Palestinian activists he was involved with covering their faces so they wouldn’t be photographed at certain pro-Palestinian rallies. I just wasn’t getting it then.
Then the Achille Lauro happened. I was outraged. My Arab friend’s expressed feeling was “What else do you expect them to do if no one will listen to them?” Our friendship ended when he spoke those words to me. They bring it with them.
at July 6, 2008 6:49 PM
in fact i had one sommoli couple who were forcing peaple from the side walk into the gutter because
they were not muslims and the koran says thats were kufers muslt walk if a muslim is present they eavn tried to force my wheelchair into the gutter
--
You need Q to work on that wheelchair of yours.
SCREW moslems trying to run you off the sidewalk in YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!
At least there should be a neighborhood group that should monitor more vulnerable people among us and "teach" these interlopers some proper manners!
Ideally they should be sent back home where they won't have to worry about encountering "kufars".
Posted by: Ummah Gummah
at July 6, 2008 7:05 PM
Ummah Gummah posted:
At least there should be a neighborhood group that should monitor more vulnerable people among us and "teach" these interlopers some proper manners!
Anybody remember these guys?
http://www.guardianangels.org/
Red berets and all that...
at July 6, 2008 8:02 PM
Richard.. I listen to Curtis Sliwa every morning here in NYC.. and when he fills in for some of the other hosts on WABC.
He is WAY better than the cowardly ***kisser Imus or the wishy-washy Republi-bots Limbaugh/Vanity.
Sliwa is spot-on 99% of the time and he doesn't back down to islamo-fascists either.
And here a spot of good news from Bella Italia:
YEP!! They have a TRUE Conservative Party in Northern Italy and they are CLOSING a mosk which has turned into a public nuisance.
Though I daresay they ALL are public nuisances.
Please do not vote "H"Eytch Obama!!
ROLL THEM BACK!!!!
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at July 6, 2008 8:59 PM
In light of the recent stories out of England and Italy we can now safely say the English are the lovers and the Italians are the fighters.
Posted by: Ummah Gummah at July 6, 2008 9:01 PM
Ummah,
In light of the recent stories out of England and Italy we can now safely say the English are the lovers and the Italians are the fighters.
Reminds me of an old internet joke from the early nineties, and goes like this:
Heaven is where -
the police are British,
the cooks French,
the mechanics German,
the lovers Italian,
and it is all organized by the Swiss.
Hell is where -
the chefs are British,
the mechanics French,
the lovers Swiss,
the police German,
and it is all organized by the Italians.
----------------------------
What a crazy world we live in these days.
at July 6, 2008 9:40 PM
To everyone here who is a member of a Christian church: you may like to start thinking, now, about how to persuade your pastor and congregation to take part in *this* event:
International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church - 9 November 2008
"The International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church (IDOP) is a global day of intercession for persecuted Christians worldwide. Its primary focus is the work of intercessory prayer and citizen action on behalf of persecuted communities of the Christian faith.
"We also encourage prayer for the souls of the oppressors, the nations that promote persecution, and those who ignore it.
"See IDOP website for more details."
http://www.persecutedchurch.org/
You will note an emphasis on Iran, right there on the homepage.
This event does not, of course, focus exclusively on the plight of Christians within the Muslim world: outside the Islamosphere, there is horrendous persecution of Christians (and of ANYONE who is perceived as stepping out of line) in neo-Stalinist North Korea, for example.
However, my fellow dhimmiwatchers/ jihadwatchers, this Day of Prayer presents a golden opportunity to educate people about Jihad and Dhimmitude, and Muslim suppression of human rights generally.
For in order to adequately understand and empathise with the present-day sufferings of Christians in Muslim-dominated countries, one must learn about jihad and dhimmitude in general, past and present (affecting not only Christians but ALL non-Muslims in Muslim lands); one must learn about the punishment that sharia prescribes for 'apostasy' and 'blasphemy'. One can also draw attention to the vicious antisemitism that is coded into Islam, a Judenhass [hatred of Jews] that drives the endless, ugly jihad against Israel and the multiplying Muslim attacks on Jews even in western countries.
My fellow Christians - let's get cracking! We have five months to get our pastors on side (if they aren't already) and get something organised. Those of us who have access to groups such as 'Barnabas Fund' could arrange for guest preachers.
Hold a dinner or a workshop and have refugee Persian or Sudanese or Maronite or Coptic or Iraqi (Chaldean/ Assyrian) Christian as guest of honour, to represent their whole community.
Atheists/ agnostics/ sceptics might consider organising similar consciousness-raising events (dinners, workshops, film evenings) to put the spotlight fair and square on traditional Islam's murderous hostility toward 'apostates' and 'blasphemers' generally - after all, death-threatened freethinkers and critics of Islam, such as Ibn Warraq and Ayaan Hirsi Ali and the late Theo Van Gogh, are only the tip of a vast iceberg.
When *I* pray I pray for ALL victims of Muslim sharia-and-jihad-driven Quranically-inspired aggression and supremacism - Christians and Jews, of course, but also Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, animists, Zoroastrians, freethinkers...
at July 6, 2008 11:24 PM
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