Can someone help me here?

What race is Islam?

Posted by: tanstaafl at August 10, 2008 5:17 PM

"...the proposed conference was aimed at arousing anti-Muslim sentiments in Europe and that it would pose a threat to inter-communal peace and harmony in society."

Yeah. Like a special conference is needed. Muslims arouse anti-Muslim sentiments, worldwide.

Posted by: Abscedere at August 10, 2008 5:47 PM

I would be willing to send them $$$ in support of what they are doing?

Posted by: Truth at August 10, 2008 6:02 PM

If anyone has a link to an English language site for Pro Koln, please leave me a note here or at my link. I'd be happy to go and meet some of these people and report first-hand on what is from here a very murky view of who and what these folks are and what they're up to. It's too important to leave this to partisans of either side of this question. My first-hand view might not satisfy anyone other than myself, but it's some start. Not that I don't trust C.J. and his lot, but I don't trust them. Nor am I keen on Filip DeWinter after listening to his rambling, obfuscating nonsense about Jews. But I can't be sure till I speak to these folks in person.

If you know of where to contact them, please let me know.

Posted by: dag at August 10, 2008 6:16 PM

If the OIC wants to stop so-called Islamophobia they'll have to start by banning the Koran, the Hadiths and about 99% of texts written by Islamic scholars.

Because they inculcate hate, sexism, rape, violence against non-believers, etc.

Islam must ban itself in order to stop the Islamaphobia.

Heck I remember when I became a Islamophobe, it was right after reading the "Alchemy of Happiness" by Al Ghazzali when I was interested in Sufism many years ago. It cured me real fast of Sufism.

In that dreadful little tome, Al Ghazzali, disabused me of the notions that Islam and Sufism was anything but something concocted by murderous lunatics and control freaks.

And a few a years ago my opinion was strengthened when I joined as a lark a Sufi newsgroup run by a American professor turned Bektashi Sufi. This Sufi demonstrated all the traits of a good Muslim - foul temper, lying to kaffirs, smearing other faiths, being a intolerant asshole, control freak and pushing a agenda that would make CAIR proud.

I later found out that other Sufi groups were no different. They were all doing Da'wa and whitewashing Islam's ugliness.

Oh if you think Sufis don't like the Shariah, they are some of the biggest promoters of it. Strict obedience of the Shariah is a requirement for acceptance in all tariqas here in the west.

Posted by: waltc at August 10, 2008 6:19 PM

Islamophobia Observatory?

Does that mean they're like, looking for islamophobia in the stars? On other planets? Islamophobes on Mars? Little green islamophobes?

Posted by: ImNoDhimmi at August 10, 2008 6:36 PM

Abscedere, the conference in Cologne is designed to battle the ever-increasing pace with which mosks are being built in the country.

Since other countries are affected, they are sending people to attend this conference.

I wonder since when do foreign entities like the OIC [pig guts be upon them] define us and the groups who are holding this conference?

Should it not be up to Germans and the other Europeans how many mosks they want in their countries?!

Let the SOWdi swine spend some of their money on Barak Hussein Obama's "Global Poverty reduction" scheme instead of wasting their money on mosks all over the world and wasting everyone's time with their idiotic BS and bloviating on how we Europeans run our busines!!

All they do is make more enemies than they have already. It makes me wish to see their black rock idol destroyed.

Posted by: Ummah Gummah at August 10, 2008 7:04 PM

"Islamophobia Observatory?"

They need look no further than our own gloriously brilliant, beloved Jupiter!--ain't that right, Kevin? Taking anti-islamism, counterjihadism, and sharia-aversity to stellar heights, by Thunder!

Jupiter Rising, by Jove!

Posted by: John C at August 10, 2008 7:17 PM

waitc

your story is fascinating.

I don't suppose you could share with us, or at least with Mr Spencer and Mr Fitzgerald, the *name* of the "American professor turned Bektashi Sufi" whom you mentioned?

You also said that "other Sufi groups were no different. They were all doing Da'wa and whitewashing Islam's ugliness".

Again: do please communicate to Mr Spencer, at least, the specific local habitations and names of those "other Sufi groups".

I have read portions of Al-Ghazzali, courtesy of various articles and books by Andrew Bostom. So I think you are completely correct about the 'control freak' aspect of Sufism in general - to judge by the samples of the views of other Sufi writers that I have also encountered, for example, Ahmed Sirhindi and Ibn Ajibah. For a truly hair-raising excerpt from Ibn Ajibah, see this article by Andrew Bostom

http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2008/03/22/losing-our-soul-to-the-islamintern/#comment-372

Bostom observes:

"Describing unabashedly the purpose of the Koranic poll tax (as per Koran 9:29) of submission for non-Muslims brought under Islamic hegemony by jihad, Ibn Ajibah makes clear the ultimate goal of its imposition was to achieve what he called the death of the 'soul', through the dhimmi’s execution of their own humanity...".

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 10, 2008 7:19 PM

It is odd the Hindus don't seem to complain about racism in the West. Their religion is certainly not something that most Westerners know well.

Posted by: Jerry M at August 10, 2008 9:49 PM

The organizers of the conference are motivated by racial hatred and xenophobia, said the OIC spokesman.

____________________________________

Racial hatred?

1.) What race is Islam?

Xenophobia?

2.) Etymology: New Latin
Date: 1903
: fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign

Well, let's see here...

Not motivated by fear, or hatred of strangers, or foreigners.

However, it is motivated by a fear of:

Terrorist attacks - 9/11 / 7/7 - the Russian school massacre

Beheadings - Nick Pearl and many others.

Imposition of Sharia and Honor Killings - In the United States, London, Canada and elsewhere.

What do ALL of the above have in common?

Hmm.. all done in the name of Islam under the doctrine of Jihad. That's a fact period.

So this isn't some "phobia" or irrational fear, but a VERY rational and logical fear based upon facts and the history, especially recent history.

Reject the label "Islamphobia!" It's an oxy-moranic term given the real-world events.

Long live: Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness!

Posted by: Monkeywho at August 10, 2008 10:23 PM

I was vaguely interested in Sufism done New Age style. Back in 1974 or so. Went to a few Sufi communal dances run by a Pir Vilayat Kahn organization. He wrote "Conference of the Birds" which is a catchy title

One summer I traveled in Europe. One way or another I was invited to a Sufi commune in London. I was in the kitchen. A grain grinding mill bolted to a sturdy kitchen table. The leader was an Englishman with a goatee. He implored me to join

I beat a retreat because I got very gay vibes from him. I wonder what went on in that org. Haven't a memory of the name

Posted by: dennisw at August 10, 2008 11:42 PM

Why is every non-Western, non-white nation on earth permitted the luxury of maintaining its ethnic, cultural, and religious integrity, but Western nations have officially become diverse, multicultural jungles as a result of rampant, third-world immigration?

When will we stand up and demand that islamic countries provide the same freedoms and rights to non-muslims that we give muslim immigrants, or tell them to shut up, mind their own business, and stay out of our countries? These supremacist, muslim hypocrites have no right to interfere in the activities of private citizens in the West. Surely there is a "leader" out there somewhere with enough spine to tell them to put up or shut up.

Posted by: Susanp at August 10, 2008 11:45 PM

Ach Du Lieber, Augustin! Zehr ist only ein vay to be kyurt ov zees eelness, und zat ist to be MuSlim, ja? ist only machen zens to confert to ze van true fate, ja? Das ist alles zo geclear to mich, now!

Posted by: Jewel Atkins at August 11, 2008 12:53 AM

As a highly intelligent race of beings with an exponentially-advanced Civilization, we inhabitants of Jupiter are prepared to meet every sort of potential threat or contingency (all right, so we were blind-sided by Shoemaker-Levy 9; but, hey, we did a better job of evacuating our Southern Hemisphere than FEMA and LA did of evacuating New Orleans; and, when it goes on line in a century's time, our new Antigravity PulseBeam will make your levees look like mole-ridges) by Thunder!

Here on Jupiter, our leading astronomical observatory is devoted to Islamofanaticism containment, under contract with the Jovian Security Agency and Jovian Armed Forces. It closely monitors Islamic movements, movers and shakers. Its multi-spectral systems are closely integrated with our highly-advanced anti-matter weapons systems; target aquisitions include Mecca, Medina (SA, not OH), Qom, Quetta, Khartoum, Gaza, and Al-Azhar; intensity settings vary from "Incinerate" to "Annihilate" to "Totally Vaporize, Dude."

Now, if the OIC, Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, or DouDou Diene start meddling in Jovian internal affairs, then get ready for a display of fireworks BIGGER than the COMET IMPACTS on JUPITER, by FULGURATOR!!

Posted by: John C at August 11, 2008 2:13 AM

Jewel,

None of that defeatist GermanoIslamist gibberish for us Jovians--nosiree, bob Mien lieber Tonans!

Posted by: John C at August 11, 2008 2:29 AM

I sink zat you must need zome treatments, ja, Herr Chohn?

Posted by: Jewel Atkins at August 11, 2008 2:48 AM

Dumbledore

The name in question is Mushtaq Ali aka: Richard Dobson. He moderates a Sufi discussion group at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sufi-studies/

The reason I brought him up was to illustrate as best I could that the more authentic Sufis aren't our friends any more than a Salafist is. The only difference is their approach and intensity.

Put it another way, Sufis won't come out and publicly condemn FGM, honor killings, slavery or any other more barbaric practices of Islam. Instead they keep silent like mutes.

As for Sufis who practice Da'wa check out the Mevlevi's under Kabir Helminski. Who is a American convert to Islam and presents a politically correct version to westerners.

And who is also a supporter of that threatening Letter to Christians from 138 hierarchs and satraps of Islam.

And here is his reply to the Pope(full of half truths as usual):
http://www.sufism.org/society/articles/Islam%20and%20Logos.html

Posted by: waltc at August 11, 2008 2:51 AM

When anybody looks through the Islamophobia Observatory and believes what he sees, he should be told "Ur looking at Uranus".

(Can't believe I'm the first to use that joke here)

Posted by: DenverRodeo at August 11, 2008 3:01 AM

Almost forgot.

Go to various Sufi websites and count how many have statements on them condemning various barbaric practices still performed in Islam.

Why is that these supposed moderates of Islam are silent even though they enjoy more rights here in the west than they did in their countries of origin?

IMO there are no moderates in Islam. Some are just better at putting out a better public face.

Posted by: waltc at August 11, 2008 3:14 AM

Wasn't it Turkish Sufis who annihilated 1.5 million Armenians and 330.000 Greeks?

Very moderate, indeed!

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 11, 2008 3:43 AM

This is exactly the same complaint that all "progressives" have against the convention.

Posted by: tomcpp at August 11, 2008 3:59 AM

"I remember when I became a Islamophobe, it was right after reading the "Alchemy of Happiness" by Al Ghazzali when I was interested in Sufism many years ago. It cured me real fast of Sufism."
-- from a posting above

Good to see that you saw right through all that "otherwordly Sufism" stuff, and did so with Al Ghazzali. It didn't stop Carl Ernst, so very fond of Sufism, and thence to full-bodied mainstream Islam. It didn't stop Eric Ormsby, poete a ses heures, of McGill's Islamic institute, whose main subject was Al Ghazzali, of being an apologist in a most minor key -- and becoming more minor still -- Ormsby's been very quiet of late on the subject of Islam possibly because he's had to rethink it, because in the end he's too intelligent not to realize what Islam does to the minds of men, even if it is difficult, having spent so much of his professional life with it, and with the odd attractive Muslim to cause a little confusion, as does so often happen.

Al Ghazzali, as Bostom provides the evidence for in "The Legacy of Jihad," thought that aggressive Jihad, Jihad through qitaal, was a duty that every Believer should discharge annually. Not exactly whirling dervishes, and the love poetry of Rumi, and all that jumble of impressions that leave the young -- Searching For Meaning (why don't they just get on with it, for god's sake?) -- thinking that Hesse's "Siddhartha" is about some Sufi, and Sufis mean Love, and Love -- well, as Cheryl Campbell sings in that Forest-of-Dean schoolroom in the original, English version of Dennis Potter's "Pennies From Heaven," Love Is Good For Everything That Ails You.

Posted by: Hugh at August 11, 2008 8:30 AM

The OIC is basically saying that resisting Islamization, is 'racist hatred' and 'xenophobia'.

I'd prefer to call it 'a smart move'.

And again...what race is Islam?

Posted by: Rogster at August 11, 2008 8:59 AM

You are so right John. In fact, Jupiter has been islam-free for.....ever. Of course it didn't hurt that the muslims never figured out how to escape Earth's puny gravitational field. Hahahaha. Pathetic.

As far as stopping the conference, they ain't in England so the liberal libel laws won't work. And Germany, well, maybe not conservative enough for me, but lately, they seem to be getting on the right track with some issues. I just hope these folks have excellent security. Oh, for the conference organizers, best not to hold the conference on a Friday. Or at least make sure you end the conference before the end of Friday blood-lust....er sermons.

Posted by: Kevin at August 11, 2008 10:20 AM

There are Sufis and there are Sufis; its a mixed bag. Sufism originally represented a survival of pre-Islamic religious and mystical traditions which had to hide themselves embedded within a social structure created by the Islamic conquerors. As such much of their ideas derive from Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism and the ancient mystery religions of the Near East and Asia Minor.

In early times Sufi sages were subjected to merciless persecution when discovered - caliphs were beheading Sufis long before Popes burned heretics. Eventually, the Sufi leaders accomodated themselves to mainstream Islam - in other words they sold out; Ghazzali was a prime example. Ever since assorted Sufis and dervishes could sometimes be even more blood thirstily fanatical than their mainstream counterparts. Other Sufis, e.g. Rumi, by humanizing and softening the harsher aspects of Islam made it more acceptable to the conquered; this occurred to a very large extent in Anatolia.The unfortunate consequence is that there are now many more Muslims.

However, there has always been a reservoir of distrust by mainstream Muslims toward Sufis, just as there is to the syncretistic Alawites. Some Sufi savants have continued to maintain a healthy skepticism toward Islamic doctrine. Historian of Turkey Lord Kinross relates the tale of a Sufi who was with the Ottoman army on the eve of some battle or other. He went about telling them that they were fools to believe all the hype about being rewarded in paradise for being killed in battle.

Posted by: RBLA at August 11, 2008 10:20 AM

>>The organizers of the conference are motivated by racial hatred and xenophobia, said the OIC spokesman.

If someone would say that to me, I would reply, "I hate Islam as much as I hate Fascism and Naziism." That takes the focus off me, and onto Islam, in a BIG way!

2 "DEFEATJIHAD/JIHADWATCH.ORG" bumper sticker stories:

1. Middle-aged white guy driving a late-model sedan-type vehicle with "Marine Corps" and "Vietnam Vet" bumper stickers gave me the thumbs-up! (Positive response)

2. 60-ish white lady looked at the sticker and noticeably frowned! I was parked, and returning to my vehicle. I have a McCain sticker now, too. I saw that her vehicle was a Mercedes, and she sported an Obama sticker! We pointedly ignored each other! (negative response) and LOL

Posted by: darcy at August 11, 2008 10:27 AM

Great story about the bumper sticker. I was going to say if someone would put "ISLAMOPHOBE" on a tee-shirt, I'd wear it!!!

I had a sign in my car's back window until recently that was taken from the Sunday "Prayers of the Faithful" of a delightfully politically-incorrect priest. He "shocked" the whole congregation by saying, "For the conversion of the Muslims, we pray to the Lord." It was hysterical watching the entire church look around in confusion!!! Since I thought that was a much more Christian sign than several others I'd considered making, I put it in the window--in green (no one can say I'm insensitive!!!).

Posted by: RosettaStone at August 11, 2008 11:16 AM

PS: How do you get a DEFEAT JIHAD bumper sticker?
I have never seen one, and couldn't find it in the online stores on this site or that of FrontPage Magazine. Where are they available?

Posted by: RosettaStone at August 11, 2008 11:28 AM

"Other Sufis, e.g. Rumi, by humanizing and softening the harsher aspects of Islam made it more acceptable to the conquered; this occurred to a very large extent in Anatolia.The unfortunate consequence is that there are now many more Muslims."

Hm, isn't that still going on today? I wonder how many people continue to be fooled by Sufism and isn't that just helping Islam ?

Posted by: DenverRodeo at August 11, 2008 12:59 PM

"I wonder how many people continue to be fooled by Sufism and isn't that just helping Islam ?"

That concern is quite correct. There are some modern Sufis, Idries Shah comes to mind, who are only interested in teaching certain meditation techniques and spiritual exercises without requiring any "conversion" to Islam; and these techniques could just as easily be those from any other mystical tradition - Hindu, Buddhist or Christian. Unfortunately, most other teachers have a more aggresively Islamic point of view and have inveigled numerous sincere but weak minded seekers into becoming Muslims.

Posted by: RBLA at August 11, 2008 5:34 PM

waitc - thanks for the info on Helminski. I shall add it to the little dossier I am keeping, as regards those 138 'scholars'.

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at August 11, 2008 5:43 PM

Since when has Islamophobia been a crime?

I would suggest that fighting back against Islam is a moral duty of any sane person.

Posted by: Stephen Gash SIOE England at August 11, 2008 6:06 PM

PS: How do you get a DEFEAT JIHAD bumper sticker?
I have never seen one, and couldn't find it in the online stores on this site or that of FrontPage Magazine. Where are they available?

Posted by: RosettaStone at August 11, 2008 11:28 AM

Rosetta - look on the JW left margin right above the pic of Oriana Fallaci. Voila!

Posted by: darcy at August 11, 2008 7:19 PM

Since when has Islamophobia been a crime?

I would suggest that fighting back against Islam is a moral duty of any sane person.

Posted by: Stephen Gash SIOE England at August 11, 2008 6:06 PM

Oh, that's good! So right.

Posted by: darcy at August 11, 2008 7:21 PM