How will the MSM try to spin this? "We didn't pay them enough" or "We insulted them in some way".

Regardless, this needs to be a salutary lesson that you cannot and should not try to appease.

Hunt them down and kill them.

Posted by: Abu_Lahab at August 22, 2008 7:05 AM

Stop the jiziyah!

Italy suffered no major terrorist attack in more than 20 years, but Italians live in fear.

Italians fear the 'Musulmani'- but the real question is: how much are they really paying for this illusionary protection?

It is also frightening that Australia should be paying 2 billion dollars annually to Indonesia, a failed (and failing every day) state- construct.

We have no leaders. We are being led by wimps and corrupt charlatans. If America doesn't lead, who will follow?

Posted by: sheik yer'mami at August 22, 2008 7:33 AM

Glad he came out and admited what everyone should know: you dno't make deals with the demons because 1) you can't afford it, and 2) they always lie.

Posted by: Crusader at August 22, 2008 7:53 AM

You can't buy freedom or safety from some evil terror group, its a old fact Rome/byzantine did it for the last 50 years of its life as a empire it didn't work to well!
how many Romans do you see walking this earth and i don't mean the city of rome.

Posted by: Fred Dawes at August 22, 2008 7:56 AM

While Cossiga's statement here is, I think, true, Cossiga himself is a bizarre figure, supported at times by the Communists and at times by the real (the Alessandra-Mussolini line) Fascists of Missini, and recently given to suggesting that the 9/11 attacks were an “inside” job (CIA, Mossad, I soliti ignoti) a referendum should be held in part of the Alto Adige to see if it should be re-incorporated into Austria even given independence (a suggeston that got nowhere). He's slightly or more than slightly nutty, but one of those figures -- like Andreotti, like Moro, like the Eveready-bunny-rabbit Fanfani -- who just keep on appearing in Italian politics, through the decades, now in this position, and now in that, and holding now this position on a matter, and now that.

But what do you expect in a country where Mike Bongiorno and Pippo Baudo, after more than a half-century of Italian television under their respective belts and toupees, can still appear regularly? No term limits. Sometimes it can be soothing. Sometimes not.

Posted by: Hugh at August 22, 2008 10:05 AM

Cossiga-prompted:

An item from the "Cronache" in yesteday’s Corriere della Sera describes how three Pakistanis, impersonating Italian policemen in mufti, would accost tourists, and proceed to intimidate them (at times slipping an envelope with white powder into the tourist's things, and then "discovering" the envelope, thus frightening the tourist into total compliance) into handing over everything to be "searched" and, apparently, to be relieved of their money.

When the Italian police searched the car of these people, they found 2,000 Euros in cash, 150 Australian dollars, 430 American dollars, 200 Hungarian florins, 200 Czech crowns, along with Swiss francs, Rumanian lei, Indan rubles, English pounds, and Russian rubles. That, presumably, was just that day’s take (for surely they would have emptied the car of the accumulated loot at day’s end). And the oikuce also found in the same care three credit cards with the names of foreign tourists, fake driving licenses and counterfeit permessi di soggiorno (akin to long-stay visas), a flashing blue light, a beret with an army crest.

But – and this is most important –all of those tourists of so many different nationalities, English and French and Swiss and Rumanian and Czech, and Russian, and Indian, were apparently willing to believe that in Rome three Italian detectives might look exactly like Pakistanis. And while that is extremely unlikely in Itlay, it is not unlikely in England, and not unlikely that a maghrebin might be a policeman in France (where Sarkozy is busily “integrating” or so he thinks, Muslims) or elsewhere in Europe where the mad effort to actually put Muslims in the security services proceeds apace, when they should be kept far away from those security services, not be permitted to learn a thing about their operations.

And thus it comes to pass that today, in Rome, in the Piazza Trilussa, named after the quintessential Roman poet with his comical romanaccio, a Frenchwoman is accosted, and harassed, and is terrified by, and hands over her purse to, three Pakistanis, thinking that they must be Italian detectives.

Posted by: Hugh at August 22, 2008 10:10 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if more European countries made deals like that. The last European leader of any stature and backbone was Margaret Thatcher. Europeans have had spineless leadership for decades.

And it's no surprise the deal didn't bring Italy peace from terrorist attacks. The Prophet's attitude towards peace deals was that they were to be broken as soon as the Muslims were strong enough. His word wasn't worth the sand it was written on.

Posted by: Proud Infidel at August 22, 2008 10:14 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if more European countries made deals like that.

Quite possible. It would explain the "don't call the jihadists 'jihadists' "attitude of some politicians.

Posted by: FreeSpeech at August 22, 2008 10:22 AM

Quoting Hugh . . .

But – and this is most important –all of those tourists of so many different nationalities, English and French and Swiss and Rumanian and Czech, and Russian, and Indian, were apparently willing to believe that in Rome three Italian detectives might look exactly like Pakistanis.

Russell Peters might disagree (great sense of humor - crude language warning)

Posted by: heroyalwhyness at August 22, 2008 10:23 AM

Hugh:

Italian TV showmen and presenters like Mike Bongiorno and Pippo Baudo, along with characters like Gerry Scotti, are the real leaders and role models, binding the country together in its overriding passion for 'spettacolo' and 'virtuosismo'.... omnipresent figures of smarmy cynical charm,peddling banality and trivia, keeping the populace's attention away from what really matters...corruption, the contamination of true culture with crass and rampant commercialism and an ongoing creeping Islamisation.

Posted by: johndoe at August 22, 2008 11:04 AM

This paying off of terrorists deal is pretty bad and I'm sure other countries have done it. Of course, all such deals pale in comparison to the one Europeans made with the Koranists back in the 1970's that Fjordman and others have discussed here several times. When will they ever learn?

Posted by: ISLAMSFORLOSERS at August 22, 2008 11:07 AM

From Umberto Eco's "Fenomenologia di Mike Bongiorno" in his Diario Minimo:

“Il caso più vistoso di riduzione del superman all’everyman lo abbiamo in Italia nella figura di Mike Bongiorno e nella storia della sua fortuna. […] quest’uomo deve il suo successo al fatto che in ogni atto e in ogni parola del personaggio cui dà vita davanti alle telecamere traspare una mediocrità assoluta. […] Mike Bongiorno non si vergogna di essere ignorante e non prova il bisogno di istruirsi. […] In compenso Mike Bongiorno dimostra sincera e primitiva ammirazione per colui che sa. […] professa una stima e una fiducia illimitata verso l’esperto. […] Mike Bongiorno parla un basic italian. Il suo discorso realizza il massimo di semplicità. Abolisce i congiuntivi, le proposizioni subordinate, riesce quasi a rendere invisibile la dimensione sintassi. Evita i pronomi, ripetendo sempre per esteso il soggetto, impiega un numero stragrande di punti fermi. […] Non è necessario fare alcuno sforzo per capirlo. Qualsiasi spettatore avverte che, all’occasione, egli potrebbe essere più fecondo di lui. […] Mike Bongiorno è privo del senso dell’umorismo. Ride perché è contento della realtà, non perché sia capace di deformare la realtà. Gli sfugge la natura del paradosso […] Egli rappresenta un ideale che nessuno deve sforzarsi di raggiungere perché chiunque si trova già al suo livello. Nessuna religione è mai stata così indulgente coi suoi fedeli. In lui si annulla la tensione tra essere e dover essere. Egli dice ai suoi adoratori: voi siete Dio, restate immoti."

In Mike Bongiorno's defense, this can be said (and it's an important thing to remember): Mike Bongiorno behaved perfectly during the war. He joined the Partisans, was put up against a wall and almost shot by the Germans (who then found his American citizenship, and spared his life, but sent him to a prison where he observed the sadism of "Misha" Seifert, the Ukrainian-born Nazi collaborator who found refuge in Canada and for all I know, still lives there, unpunished.

He may owe his success, as Umberto Eco noted in his essay written long ago, to his being the embodiment of Absolute Mediocrity, but during World War II, at one point in his life, he was much better than that.

Posted by: Hugh at August 22, 2008 12:03 PM

Hugh:

Interesting information about Mike Bongiorno's wartime experience.

Back to Eco. I've also noticed Bongiorno's rather scary lack of humour but I've also admired his consummate professionalism. The problem is his chosen material...the interminable mind numbing game and quiz shows with all the usual Italian TV paraphernalia...gaudy sets and dancing girls. The material is mediocre but his presentation is impeccable. He would have made a great magician.I remember an appearance by Richard Gere some time ago on one of his shows when Bongiorno presented him with an oversized cheque for his Tibet institute in New York. Gere was incredulous and rather put out by all the girls,sponsor jingles and crazed female audience who wouldn't have been able to locate Tibet on the map, mumbling to Bongiorno in English that the show was surreal and inappropriate. It was quite excruciating to witness the contrast between the earnestness and seriousness of Gere's cause and the vacuous nature of the show. Bongiorno's response was something along the lines of 'this is the gig, the show, the way it is'..all this went untranslated of course. Looking back, Gere's cognitive dissonance was more embarrassing than Bongiorno's absolute belief in the format. He was relentless in his bulldozing of his host, coercing him into the formula. Professional for sure but a pity about his chosen medium.

Posted by: johndoe at August 22, 2008 12:32 PM

johndoe and hugh, what's your alternative? would you oblige everyone who chooses to entertain people in society to only do "productive" entertainment and never indulge in anything silly? if these Italian guys choose to indulge in their mediocre silly fun is that stopping others from pursuing a more suitable type of entertainment or art? if they are able to monopolize Italian airwaves is that their fault? are they tyrants who control the public appetites?

Posted by: DenverRodeo at August 22, 2008 2:08 PM

Italy's former Prez admits they tried to bribe jihadists and buy safety

A former Italian president says his country had allowed Palestinian terror groups to roam free in exchange for not attacking Italian targets.
.....................................

Dear crocodile, please eat me last!

Posted by: gravenimage at August 22, 2008 2:12 PM

Denver Rodeo: Entertainment? I think not. It was once said...by a rabbi I believe....that watching TV is like having an open sewer running through your living room. Italian TV, with its endless drivel, is a perfect example of what he was referring to. An alternative? A documentary like 'Islam:What the West Needs to Know' on Rete 4 or Canale 5? As likely as flying pigs. My suggestion? Unplug it, take out an axe and do what is necessary.

Posted by: johndoe at August 22, 2008 2:58 PM

Well they are Italians, what do you expect.
Probably pales into insignificance to what the French have paid.

Posted by: Ian at August 22, 2008 4:18 PM

HPosted by: Abu_Lahab
Hunt them down and kill them.

Which, the jihadist nutcases or the invertebrate losers who make deals with them? Or both?

Posted by: RalphInfidel at August 22, 2008 7:05 PM

Italian television has gone down hill. Even the advertisements have gone down hill. Here are two examples of advertisements from the long-gone days of Carosello (the name of the long series of advertising that each evening would be broadcast, not during the shows, but one after the other, during this "Carosello"):

Fernet-Branca:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-uyXVOY9Ao&feature=related

Aldo Fabrizi: Star Broth

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=103B0hYkgkk&feature=related

Posted by: Hugh at August 22, 2008 9:43 PM

Hugh: Just love that expression in the Fernet ad 'per le ore piene'. It is so much more poetic than 'when your stomach is full'.

As we're onto Carosello, here's some tremendous twisting and state of the art graphics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1ZrDrdJkaA

Something tells me this thread has veered wildly OT.

Posted by: johndoe at August 23, 2008 6:20 AM

Two rather contradictory points. The first is that Cossiga is probably lying, and lying for a reason - although I cannot imagine why he should. The best evidence about the Bologna massacre is that it was the work of Thomas Schramm, the right-hand man of the infamous Venezuelan Communist terrorist Carlos. Cossiga's vague accusations against Palestinians are backed by no credible evidence, whereas it is proven that Schramm was in the Bologna station a few minutes before the bomb exploded. Cossiga has a nasty habit of coat-trailing; in this case, I would think, to exonerate the Communist terrorists - many of whom were in the Prodi majority which he also supported - and blame the Palestinians, whom he regards as the bigger danger now.

The second is that the "deal" struck by the late Aldo Moro in the seventies was, alas, all too well known. It was mentioned almost by name in Paolo MIeli's 1981 interview with General Gian Adelio Maletti, former head of secret services at the time, who complained that he would jail terrorists and "someone" would set them free in exchange for oil supplies. And even before that, the suspicion had been repeatedly aired. I would say that by 1981, every politically aware Italian knew of the dirty pact.

Posted by: Paolo at August 23, 2008 9:16 AM

I translate the relevant passages of the interview:

MIELI:...You personally stood out for your pursuit of Arab and Palestinian [terrorists].
MALETTI: When I entered [the military secret service] SID, in June 1971, the Palestinian terrorists, who were trying to turn Italy into a stage for their activities, were the most dangerous. But in a few years we identified and arrested many.
MIELI: True enough. But then there were those who let them out of jail and sent them to Arab countries. And in exchange for these terrorists, Italy would obtain a little peace and a little oil. [NOTE: subsequent passages in the interview show that these "Arab countries" include Libya.] Did you never protest about this kind of behaviour?
MALETTI: They certainly did not bother about my views! However, everyone knew that I did not like that way of doing things.
MIELI: But what was the point of hunting down Arab terrorists, if then Aldo Moro, acting in agreement with colonel Giovannone and general Miceli [NOTE: Maletti's own predecessor as head of military intelligence], would make sure that they would never spend their sentences in Italy?
MALETTI: If nothing else, it was useful in that it made their life difficult, almost impossible. Anyway, I repeat, it was not within my power to do anything to stop Arab terrorists being handed over to Arab governments.
MIELI: Did you have any relationship with Libyan secret services?
MALETTI: No. But I know for a fact that Miceli did.

It is worth pointing out that when this article was published (1981), Aldo Moro was still alive and probably the most powerful politician in Italy. If he did not do anything about the claim that he had made shameful deals with Palestinians and Libyans, it was because he did not want any attention drawn to the charges. All his life, his policy had been to bury and forget, bury and forget - or, to quote a passage from our greatest novelist, "sopire, troncare; troncare, sopire".

Posted by: Paolo at August 23, 2008 9:32 AM