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No compulsion in religion -- and under sharia, it can be any religion you like, as long as it's Islam. An update on this case, which remains predictably unresolved. "Egypt: Father's brief conversion traps daughters in Islam," from Compass Direct News, October 10:
ISTANBUL, October 10 (Compass Direct News) – An Egyptian Coptic Christian woman has been sentenced to three years in prison for failing to uphold her Islamic identity – an identity she didn’t know she had for over four decades.
Sisters Shadia and Bahia Nagy El-Sisi, both in their late 40s and residents of the small east Delta town Mit-Ghamr, were arrested and tried for claiming their official religious identity as Christian. Unknown to them, their religious identity officially changed 46 years ago due to their father’s brief conversion to Islam. Both are illiterate.
Shadia El-Sisi was tried for stating her religion as Christian on her marriage certificate and sentenced to three years in prison on Nov. 21, 2007. She was released two months later. Last Sept. 23 a judge also sentenced Bahia El-Sisi to three years in prison for “forging” her marriage certificate by stating her religion as Christian.
Their father, Nagy El-Sisi, converted to Islam in 1962 during a brief marital dispute in order to divorce his wife and potentially gain custody of his daughters, the sisters’ lawyer Peter Ramses told Compass.
Egyptian law is influenced by Islamic jurisprudence (sharia), which automatically awards child custody to whichever parent has the “superior” religion and dictates “no jurisdiction of a non-Muslim over a Muslim.”
If Bahia El-Sisi’s identity as a Muslim stands, then her religious status could potentially create a domino effect that would require her husband to convert to Islam or have their marriage nullified. Her children, too, would be registered as Muslims. Both women are married to Christians.
“All of their children and grandchildren would be registered as Muslims,” Ramses said. “[The ruling] would affect many people.”
Other sources said it is too soon to determine the fate of the sisters’ marriages and families, as neither of their cases have been finalized.
‘But I Am a Christian’
A few years after his conversion, Nagy El-Sisi returned to his family and Christianity. He sought the help of a Muslim employee in the Civil Registration Office, Ramadan Muhammad Hussein, who agreed to forge his Christian identification documents. Reversion back to Christianity for converts to Islam has been nearly impossible in Egyptian courts.
The daughters discovered they were still registered as Muslims when Hussein was arrested for forgery in 1996 and confessed he had helped El-Sisi obtain fake documents three decades earlier. El-Sisi was later arrested.
When the two daughters visited him in prison, they were detained and accused of forging their Christian identification documents, according to national weekly Watani. A criminal court gave them each a three-year prison sentence in absentia in 2000.
Shadia El-Sisi was arrested in August 2007, three days before her son’s wedding. Her first hearing was on Nov. 21, 2007 at the Shobra El-Khema criminal court; she asserted that she had no idea of her so-called conversion to Islam. Judge Hadar Tobla Hossan sentenced her to three years in prison.
Confronted with the sentence, Shadia El-Sisi kept repeating, “But I am a Christian. I am a Christian,” according to Watani.
She was in prison until Jan. 13, when Prosecutor-General Abdel Meged Mahmood retracted the sentence because she was unaware of her conversion by proxy and due to legal technicalities that voided incriminating evidence.
The advocacy group Egyptians Against Religious Discrimination also pressured the judiciary through a signature drive to release her from prison.
Bahia El-Sisi went into hiding following her sister’s imprisonment, but came out after news of her release. Legal experts believe that when Bahia El-Sisi’s case comes before the Supreme Court, her sentence will be retracted as her sister’s was, as their cases have no legal foundation.
Early in the morning of May 5, however, police arrested Bahia El-Sisi and held her in jail until her hearing on July 20, after which she was released pending the verdict.
On Sept. 23 she was sentenced to three years in prison for “forgery of an official document,” as her marriage license states her religion as “Christian.” Bahia El-Sisi was married years before learning of her father’s brief conversion.
Ramses will appeal to Egypt’s Supreme Court in next week. He said he worries the case could further erode the precarious situation of religious minorities in the Muslim-majority country of 79 million.
“How can the government say to [someone] who has lived 50 years in a Christian way that they must become a Muslim and their children must be Muslim and their whole family must all be Muslims?” he said. “This is very important for the freedom of religion.” ...
Posted by Marisol at October 11, 2008 12:11 AM
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One must defend the Christians of Egypt and the Middle East!
Why not asking the Muslims of the West to sign petitions in order to protect the religious freedom of the Christians in the Middle East?
If they refuse, who they really are shall be published in the media?
Do it in America, I think about doing it in Europe.
Posted by: Coaltaxopeuh![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at October 11, 2008 3:10 AM
We should consider doing this to Mohammedans in our midst. Dig up any Mohammedan's family tree, get to the point where they had an Infidel ancestor/ancestorette, and then force that entire Mohammedan family to convert. Like let's say Ahmed lives here with family, and it's found out that his maternal grandma's mother was a Jew, then all her descendants - including Ahmed's maternal grandpa - should be converted to Judaism - posthumously if required. Same for Ahmed's family - wife becomes Jewess, kids start going to Jewish schools, etc.
And then watch the ummah squeal!
Posted by: Infidel Pride at October 11, 2008 4:15 AM
Egypt is like a nation of Stalins. Oh wait, Stalin never drove out all the Jews or enforced the apartheid of women and Christians, and he actively fought Hitler instead of supporting him and carrying on his ideology in letter and in spirit 60 years after his death. Sorry, Stalin. You're way better than Egyptians in every possible way except dentally, in which case you're equal.
Posted by: jdamn at October 11, 2008 6:23 AM
Had Obama been born in Egypt, there would be no doubt as to his Muslimship. Obama's muslimship depends entirely on this interpretation of Sharia law, and where he was born. 'Age of puberty' is just another interpretation.
The Egyptian interpretation would find Obama a muslim.
The real test:
Do you believe Allah is God?
Do you believe Mohammad was/is the messenger of Allah?
I would really like to hear Obama's answer to those, but I will never get the chance to ask him, and I don't expect anyone in the media to do it either...
Posted by: duh_swami at October 11, 2008 7:36 AM
Egyptian law is influenced by Islamic jurisprudence (sharia), which automatically awards child custody to whichever parent has the “superior” religion and dictates “no jurisdiction of a non-Muslim over a Muslim.”
Why do the apartheid laws of the islamic countries not get the same attention in the worldwide press that the apartheid laws of South Africa used to get?
Where is the outrage? Where is the worldwide demand for infidel civil rights in muslim countries?
Posted by: David England
at October 11, 2008 8:47 AM
this is just insane. Surely people can see that?
Posted by: Monte Gardner at October 11, 2008 10:29 AM
Coaltax what you are thinking is illegal in america as saying sign this pettion of I will tell the public that you didnot sign it is illegal.
Posted by: DefenderofIslam at October 11, 2008 4:24 PM
Defenderofislam,
Do not worry, I do not mean to show the name of any persons:
Only the fact that it was asked to EVERY iman or influent Muslim ...
... and that only less than 1 % of them signed the petition to protect the rights of the Middle East Christians.
Some questions: "Defenderofislam" ...
How can you defend pedophilia? How can you defend stoning? How can you defend war to impose your religion? How can you defend the stealing and the killing of the other peoples than the people of the book? How can you defend the violence of the man against his wife? How can you defend murder of a person changing is religion? ... in one word: HOW CAN YOU DEFEND MOHAMMED and ISLAM?
Do not you understand that all the Mohammed's and Islam's behaviour hereabove are evil?
Who is the source of evil?
PLEASE, ACCEPT TO ANSWER ALL OF MY QUESTIONS: thank you so much.
I pray for you to be happy! And I must tell you that you cannot be really happy in such an evil thing as Islam.
Posted by: Coaltaxopeuh at October 11, 2008 4:41 PM
This is less and less the "religion of peace" and more and more the religion of desperation.
For some reason, I am just not sure of all those Muslim population "estimates" coming from Islamic apologists.
Posted by: tanstaafl at October 11, 2008 5:46 PM
Dave asks:
Where is the outrage? Where is the worldwide demand for infidel civil rights in muslim countries?
I'll answer that. Infidel civil rights are being duly blocked and thoroughly ignored by order of the UNHRC.
Don't expect any scrutiny, examination nor condemnation from the World.
We've already gone over the brink.
at October 11, 2008 7:15 PM
This is so evil, words cannot begin...
Any American diplomat, President, Congressman or soldier giving Egypt a dime of American money should put on trial for treason. They are pure scum. This is that attitude we must have toward our own government until they refrain from associating America with these Islamic monsters.
The plight of ex-Muslim dissidents in Islamic countries is the new abolition movement of our time. Let all free people unite and get on board. This is the moral cause of our lifetime. If we fail, millions despair and suffer at the hands of Muslim sadists.
Posted by: Max Publius at October 11, 2008 7:48 PM
There is no proof that Mo was than pedohilia. Only than very old senile scholar make that claim and no other scholar of his time make than simlar claim. There is alots of proof that his second wife was between 13 and 16 year old the marrage age of many people back then. Islam is no more violation than anymore religion on this planet.
Some of you rightwing christian raceist are now calling the leader of North Korea than pedobilia with than haren of 4000 female girls between the age of 8 and 13 year old I say this is demonise by you people of your enemies.
The Quoan doesnot support wife beating and 99.99% of the muslim women are happly marriage to than man who treat then kindly.
Plus this court is than seclur government court that make this ruleing not than real religious court.
Posted by: DefenderofIslam at October 11, 2008 10:53 PM
So Defender, are you saying that the Ayatollah Khomeini never said that because Mohammad married Aisha when she was six and consummated the marriage when she was nine, that the marriageable age for girls should be reduced to nine years old when he took over Iran after the revolution there in 1979?
The Ayatollah said, "A man can marry a girl younger than nine years of age, even if the girl is still a baby being breastfed. A man, however is prohibited from having intercourse with a girl younger than nine, other sexual act such as forplay, rubbing, kissing and sodomy is allowed. A man having intercourse with a girl younger than nine years of age has not comitted a crime, but only an infraction, if the girl is not permanently damaged. If the girl, however, is permanently damaged, the man must provide for her all her life. But this girl will not count as one of the man's four permanent wives. He also is not permitted to marry the girl's sister."
"A woman who has had her ninth birthday, or who has not yet entered menopause, must wait for three menstrual periods after her divorce before being allowed to remarry. If a woman who has not reached her ninth birthday or who has not entered menopause gets temporarily married, she must, at the end of the contract or when the husband has released her from part of it, wait two menstrual periods or forty-five days before marrying again."
You can read it for yourself here:
http://www.xomba.com/ayatollah_khomeinis_religious_teachings_on_marriage_divorce_and_relationships
So let's go back to Coaltaxopeuh's question: How can you defend pedophilia?
Posted by: Isabellathecrusader at October 11, 2008 11:28 PM
Do not worry, I do not mean to show the name of any persons:
Only the fact that it was asked to EVERY iman or influent Muslim ...
... and that only less than 1 % of them signed the petition to protect the rights of the Middle East Christians.
Kind of like every Muslim Students Union and Muslim Student Association refused to sign David Horowitz's Declaration Against Genocide.
And don't deign to argue with Defender's claim that Mo wasn't pedophile.
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) Bukhari 8. 73.151
Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Allright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. Bukhari 5.234
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old. Muslim 8. 3310
Narrated 'Aisha:that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). Bukhari 7. 62. 64
Narrated 'Aisha:that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)' Bukhari 7. 62. 65
Narrated 'Ursa:The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death). Bukhari 7. 62. 88
And my favorite, which has nothing to do with Aisha, but rather with a baby:
(Suhayli, ii.79: In the riwaya of Yunus I.I recorded that the apostle saw her (Ummu’l-Fadl) when she was baby crawling before him and said, ‘If she grows up and I am still alive I will marry her.’ But he died before she grew up and Sufyan b. al-Aswad b. Abdu’l-Asad al-Makhzumi married her and she bore him Rizq and Lubaba….(Ref.3, page 311)
He's just embarrassed because, since Muslims must follow Perv MO in deed, word, and thought, we know that he's a pedophile too. And in keeping with that model, when he's not in here he's by definition actively advocating that people rape their retarded 6-year-old nieces:
Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you?" Bukhari V7 B62 N16 Bukhari V7 B62 N16
Posted by: jdamn at October 12, 2008 9:42 AM
Defenderofislam isn't interested in facts. You are all wasting your breath. Mocking him is a waste of breath, too.
Posted by: Jewel Atkins at October 12, 2008 3:06 PM
Thanks, Defenderofislam ...
You said that all recognized writers of hadith are senile and that the Quran is senile! Both Hadiths and Quran justify paedophilia!
Instead of saying "senile", I had rather said EVIL or something in that kind.
Several parts of the Quran and several Hadiths are evil.
Change if you want to avoid the evil one AND go to a real paridise!
(Not that false LUXURY (a sin, isn't it?) of 72 virgins promised by a lyer called Mohammed.)
, I shall pray so that even the sinner called Mohammed can be saved from his sins, very grave sins (there is a purgatory in my religion).
The consequences of the sins of Mohammed (bad example of life, false prophet, false "messages" "from God", paedophilia, killing, beating his woman, and lying, lying, lying) are awfull, even nowadays!
Posted by: Coaltaxopeuh at October 12, 2008 5:49 PM
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