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Copts demonstrating in Egypt
A good assessment of the Coptic situation in Egypt. "Coptic Christians Are Still Marginalized," by Lee Jay Walker for the Seoul Times, October 17:
Egypt is viewed to be a moderate nation, however, if you scratch under the surface and study the laws of this land, and how Coptic Christians are treated, then your opinion may change. So when will the Christians of Egypt be given genuine equality? Also, are Coptic Christians best served by the estranged democracy of President Hosni Mubarak or open democracy which may unleash Islamic forces? This issue is very complex because if we look at the crisis in Iraq, then change can sometimes usher in an even more dangerous period. So what are the best options available to the minority Christian community?Before focusing on this it must be stated that the Coptic Christians of Egypt resided in this land a long time before the Arabs invaded their nation and colonized Egypt in the distant past. Also, despite massive past historical persecution, colonialization, jizya tax, massive inequality, pogroms, massacres, and Dhimmitude, many still remained loyal to their Christian faith because of the strength of the Coptic Christian church which was extremely tenacious. Of course many Muslim leaders were very moderate and many Christians were protected providing they paid jizya tax. Therefore, the plight of Christianity often relied on the respective Muslim leader and the moderation of leading Islamic clerics.
However, it only took one major spark or crisis of confidence within the Muslim community to cause havoc. Therefore, Copts understood that being passive was their only option when we focus on past history and the same applied to accepting Dhimmitude for many centuries. More recently, Coptic Christians have been divided because many in the diaspora are outspoken but many Christians in Egypt feel that "a quiet approach" is best.
Again if we look at past history it doesn`t look good. After all, when Camp David was signed between America, Israel, and Egypt, all three nations were happy; however, the same Anwar Sadat persecuted the Christian community via anti-Christian laws. Therefore, just like the Christian community in Iraq which doesn`t count and which isn`t protected, it is clear that Western nations have different interests. This fact alone should worry the Coptic Christian community because America supported the introduction of Sharia Islamic Law in Sudan in 1983, and they of course did the same in Iraq and Afghanistan.
However, in more recent times many parts of Africa are in transition because in the early 19th century Islam dominated over Christianity in this part of Africa, apart from Ethiopia and Eritrea (new nation state) where the Christian and Muslin population was well established. However, by the middle of the twentieth century times had changed because Christianity grew rapidly in parts of Chad, Kenya, Tanzania, and Uganda. Therefore, the religious map of this part of Africa and the surrounding region was radically altered. Also, by the end of the twentieth century Christianity was around 13% to 17% in Sudan and the mainly Christian elite of the south fought back against radical Islam.Therefore, the embattled Coptic Christians of Egypt are no longer isolated within the dynamics of the surrounding geography of Africa and churches are now being planted in parts of northern Sudan. Given this, it is hoped that greater Christian unity will lead to more pressure on Islamic states which discriminate against Christians in this part of Africa. So now it may be time for the Coptics to reach out and strengthen their cause in Egypt and Eastern Africa?
Unlike Africa, the future of the Christian community in the Middle East looks rather bleak because they face dhimmitude, terrorism, persecution, inequality via the legal system, a demographic time bomb, marginalization, and so much more. Also, history tells us that they do not count in the eyes of major Western powers and of course most Western governments are pro-Saudi Arabia, despite this nation not allowing one single Christian church. Given this, the Christians of the Middle East must unite and they must gain strength from their longevity in order to stop this onslaught.
Turning back to Egypt, then it is clear that organizations like the Muslim Brotherhood desire to create an Islamic state and the central government often panders to the Muslim majority. Therefore, Coptic Christians suffer dhimmitude via radical Islam and suffer discrimination at the hands of the Egyptian government. Given this, Christians are in a no-win situation and while many want "true democracy" others do not because they fear that radical Islam may come to power in the long run. Given this, the Christians of Egypt are in a major dilemma. Do they fight back against the central government which discriminates against them? Or do they remain quiet because of the fear of radical Islam? In truth, whatever they do could backfire and this is the problem.
Before concluding, it is important to state that many Christians and Muslims have great relations in Egypt. Also, in the past some local Muslims have also tried to protect Christians from radical Islamists. So persecution in Egypt is much more moderate rather than the direct persecution which happens in nations like Saudi Arabia. Also, some Muslim writers have been outspoken and they have supported the Christian community during times of persecution. Yet despite this, negative aspects of Egypt must not be ignored and many Christians have suffered within Egypt because of discrimination via the state system or they have suffered at the hands of radical Islamists.
Therefore, recent flashpoints will continue and Coptics will suffer more religious persecution, educational inequality, inequality in law, discrimination in the workplace, discrimination in national government, and they will be limited by land laws which will hinder them from building new churches or monasteries. So, overall, their situation looks negative but the changing religious map could be a future lifeline? For now, however, the Christian community must remain firm and strong, and to unite against their enemies within Egyptian society. Yet if any community can survive against all the odds, then this certainly applies to the Coptic Christians of Egypt who have remained strong in faith despite many negatives being stacked against them.
Posted by Raymond at October 17, 2008 9:06 AM
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Egypt, in the photograph, looks remarkably like Belgium or Holland.
Posted by: StrulZigelboim![[TypeKey Profile Page]](http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/nav-commenters.gif)
at October 17, 2008 9:20 AM
Talk about an "Apartheid regime"!
Posted by: Cornelius at October 17, 2008 11:14 AM
The solution is obvious-the West should take in these people, not more Koranists. Once these people leave Cesspoolia there will be an added bonus-a natural worsening of the place by the departure of the infidels.
Posted by: "Islamophobia"=BS at October 17, 2008 11:21 AM
Islam is essentially genocidal given that it creates a two tiered society whereby the non-Muslim is expected to wither away. While Muslims have committed overt genocide through killings, I accuse Islam of soft genocide in the Middle East. One need only look at the abuse and the movement of Christian populations out of the Middle East to understand that some sort of soft genocide is occurring.
Posted by: James Martel at October 17, 2008 2:17 PM
I don't think this has been posted here:
NSider's Letter To Sony And Media Molecule Re: Qur'an References
A worldwide recall was issued for a Sony game that contained references to the Quran, apparently because some Muslims complained.
Posted by: Jesus Christ Supercop at October 17, 2008 2:47 PM
Egypt is viewed to be a moderate nation
Really? By whom? It's a nation in which 97% of the little girls endure clitoridectomy during which their female family members generally gather 'round and sing a sick little song about how empowering they find the mutilation experience. It's the nation that gave us Sayyid Qutb, the mastermind of modern jihad, and the Muslim Brotherhood, which is alrgely responsible for the radicalization of this generation of Muslims. It's an apartheid state that drove out al of its Jews and where Christians are forced to live like rats among garbage. It's the land of slaughtering monks. It gave us 2 of the 9/11 hijackers.
The Egyptians I know aren't 'moderate.' The parasitic sex-slave baby factories all crap out at least 3 monsters by 20 and wear those disgusting Dark-Age Nazi slave rag explicit calls for genocide on their inbred, monkey-looking heads and speak in spineless, soulless, fake little-girl voices. The 'men' say things in the classroom like 'women are genetically inferior,' 'blondes are genetically inferior,' and 'separate but equal [apartheid] is an ideal that all societies should aspire to.' Moderate my ass. Hitler's Nazis were 'moderate' compared to the Egyptians I know. They're not moderate by monster standards.
Posted by: jdamn at October 17, 2008 3:10 PM
"The future of the Christian community in the Middle East looks rather bleak"
Well fu(k me sideways; you don't say!
well of course it's fu(king bleak. Everything is fu(king bleak.
Europeans are living in a "post-Christian" society which enables them to feel very pleased with themselves, and therefore ambivalent to the situation in the middle east regarding Christians. Most think that Christianity, if it exists (or for that matter ever existed)in third world countries, is probably a legacy of colonialism; so why not let the natives revert to their authentic equally (i.e. much much much more) valid religion(s). God bless Multiculturalism!!
Even Christian leaders such as the Arch Mufti of Canterbury who is supposed to represent the worldwide Anglican community, is too afraid to raise the issue for fear of offending anyone, and is anyway far too preoccupied promoting gay Bishops, female priests and denying the Virgin birth/Resurrection etc. etc. etc. to be getting involved with crass things like summary executions of Christian shopkeepers or crucifixions of Christian schoolchildren by jihadis in places like Mosul.
The future of the Christian community in Europe looks equally bleak along with European atheists, gays, Jews, Hindus, 7th Day Adventists, non-conformists, Morris Dancers, and Vegan animal rights activists (not necessarily in that order).
God I'm so fu(king angry!!!
I want a fu(king revolution.
And I'm not even a Christian.
What to do...........!!??
Jesus wept.
at October 17, 2008 5:16 PM
"It's a nation in which 97% of the little girls endure clitoridectomy during which their female family members generally gather 'round and sing a sick little song about how empowering they find the mutilation experience."
posted by jdamn
Hi
with respect,
are you sure it's as high as 97% This seems very high to me even for a country like Egypt, could you provide references?
I would think (hope)it is much lower, but am happy(unhappy) to be corrected.
Regards
Posted by: Meccano at October 17, 2008 5:28 PM
"It's a nation in which 97% of the little girls endure clitoridectomy during which their female family members generally gather 'round and sing a sick little song about how empowering they find the mutilation experience."
posted by jdamn
Hi
with respect,
are you sure it's as high as 97% This seems very high to me even for a country like Egypt, could you provide references?
I would think (hope)it is much lower, but am happy(unhappy) to be corrected.
Regards
Posted by: Meccano at October 17, 2008 5:29 PM
Hi Meccano,
"A Shafi'i fiqh ruling on female excision helps explain why the FGM figure in Egypt is reported by UNICEF at 97% despite 1997 State legislation."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/2008/01/019729print.html
Posted by: jdamn at October 17, 2008 6:11 PM
If you didn't believe me about the sick little song either, it goes like this:
"We used to be friends, but today I am the master, for I am a man. Look-I have the knife in my hand. Your clitoris, I will cut it off and throw it away for today I am a man."
http://nospank.net/demause5.htm
Really defensible human beings, the Egyptians.
Posted by: jdamn at October 17, 2008 6:14 PM
Although, (and sorry for the 3 consecutive posts) that sick song is not so bad in light of the Somali tradition of all the women plunging their fingers into the excised clitoral hood to make sure that no clitoris remains after it's been ripped from way up inside the body, thus nearly ensuring infection. And then they get Type III fgm. But what they don't tell you about Type II is that it usually heals into a Type III unless it's done in a hospital with nice stitching, like in this pic:
http://islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1460&Itemid=72#sadly
(3rd pic, about 1/3 of the way down the page).
at October 17, 2008 6:19 PM
"America supported the introduction of Sharia Islamic Law in Sudan in 1983 ..."
Is that true? What happened? Does anyone know anything about it?
Posted by: calatrava at October 17, 2008 6:57 PM
Hi jdamn
thanks for the clarification ..it looks like UNICEF's own figures. I didn't think it was this prevalent. I was hoping that the majority of Muslim fathers would refuse to subject their daughter to that.
What fu(king annoys me is the lack of media coverage in the west. Speaking as a father of two daughters the silence is deafening.
Posted by: Meccano at October 17, 2008 7:00 PM
On the contrary, those Muslim fathers do it as what they believe to be altruism because they think, and probably rightly so, that if they don't do that then they won't be able to pimp their daughters into incestuous Sharia sex slavery. That's a woman's whole purpose in life in that culture - to be an undead corpse/mutilated sex slave/baby factory for Allah's army. So if they don't then they're failures. They probably also think it will decrease the likelihood of them 'having' to 'honor' kill their daughters. It's also just part and parcel of Shafi'i Islam. It's required, so all that crap about 'let's blame fgm on the black Africans because it's an African practice is just that - crap. It's pervasive in Pakistan, Indonesia, anywhere the Shafi'is are, and in many places they aren't, where Hanafis and Hanbalis, etc., live. Plus Salafists are into aything inhumane and extreme and most Muslims in the free world and Africa are Salafists, whether or not they know it, even Shi'ites, because of the Muslim Brotherhood.
I say great. Fewer Muslims. Lots of them die from hemorrhage and infection, and it also causes ridiculously high rates of maternal death during childbirth and infant mortality, especially with Type III.
What kills me is that the Copts do it too.
Posted by: jdamn at October 17, 2008 7:40 PM
Raymond,
Many thanks for the this update on what we would all consider inevitable.
Anyway, I would add that this certainly is nothing new. For your calendar of Muslim Aggressions against the kafirs, I would to point out that today, 10 Oct, should be a new, additional Day of Rememberence, wherein the zombies destroyed the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem:
Quote:
On October 18, 1009, under the so-called "mad" Fatimid caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, orders for the complete destruction of the Church were carried out. It is believed that Al-Hakim "was aggrieved by the scale of the Easter pilgrimage to Jerusalem, which was caused specially by the annual miracle of the Holy Fire with the Sepulchre. The measures against the church were part of a more general campaign against Christian places of worship in Palestine and Egypt, which involved a great deal of other damage: Adhemar of Chabannes recorded that the church of St George at Lydda 'with many other churches of the saints' had been attacked, and the 'basilica of the Lord's Sepulchre destroyed down to the ground'. ...The Christian writer Yahya ibn Sa'id reported that everything was razed 'except those parts which were impossible to destroy or would have been too difficult to carry away'."[5] The Church's foundations were hacked down to bedrock. The Edicule and the east and west walls and the roof of the cut-rock tomb it encased were destroyed or damaged (contemporary accounts vary), but the north and south walls were likely protected by rubble from further damage. The "mighty pillars resisted destruction up to the height of the gallery pavement, and are now effectively the only remnant of the fourth-century buildings."[5] Some minor repairs were done to the section believed to be the tomb of Jesus almost immediately after 1009, but a true attempt at restoration would have to wait for decades.[5]European reaction was of shock and dismay, with far-reaching and intense consequences. For example, Clunaic monk Raoul Glaber blamed the Jews, with the result that Jews were expelled from Limoges and other French towns. Ultimately, this destruction provided an impetus to the later Crusades.[6]
Source:
Just one more day to add to the ever-growing list of zombie atrocities committed in the name of "Peace."
at October 17, 2008 8:32 PM
Call me Homer!
Anyway, I would add that this certainly is nothing new. For your calendar of Muslim Aggressions against the kafirs, I would to point out that today, 10 Oct, should be a new, additional Day of Rememberence, wherein the zombies destroyed the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem...
Where I meant to say...today, 18 Oct...
at October 17, 2008 8:39 PM
Note that this article is appearing in the 'Seoul Times': that is, in South Korea.
South Korea has a large Christian minority (about 32 % of the population), and they are very faithful. courageous, well-educated, intelligent and fervent.
Christianity began in South Korea in the 18th century when some curious Koreans went across to China after hearing rumours of a new and interesting religion and studying one of Jesuit Matthew Ricci's treatises. Result: newly Catholic Koreans went back home and singlehandedly created a Korean Catholic church which was, later, nearly obliterated by a ferocious persecution (see account in Stephen Neill, 'A History of Christian Missions' [Penguin paperback, revised edn 1986] pp. 349-350).
The second wave of Christianisation in Korea involved an encounter with Protestants - mostly Presbyterians - from the late 19th c onward (Neill, pp. 290-92).
From 1910-1945 Korea was occupied by Japan: many Korean Christians suffered or even died as martyrs {Neill, p. 433).
Today, South Korea sends out large numbers of Christian evangelists world-wide (according to my Christian sourcebook, there are an estimated 10 000 Korean Christian missionaries).
If the attention and sympathy of wealthy, intelligent and fervent Korean Christians, who themselves have endured, within their history as a church, long periods of suffering and persecution, has been drawn to the suffering of the Copts under the Muslims in Egypt, the Copts may have just gained themselves some friends worth having.
And if the Korean Christians work out what Islam really is and does and get it in their crosshairs then Islam had better look out.
Shoutout to any Korean Christian reading this, whether you are in S Korea, or the USA, or Australia, or Canada, or anywhere else: if you have not read Robert Spencer's, and Bat Yeor's, and Andrew Bostom's books about Islam, you must.
For there are some Muslims in South Korea, and they must not be allowed to grow in numbers and in power, or they will in the end destroy The Land of the Morning Calm, and reduce it to a state of desolation and delusion comparable only to the desolation and delusion suffered in North Korea under Kim Jung Il.
And you must move heaven and earth to spread the information in those books, concerning Political Islam, Jihad and Sharia and Dhimmitude (dhimmitude is what the Copts endure), among the entire Korean church, and indeed among all Koreans, in Korea and throughout the world.
My fellow jihadwatchers - if you have Korean Christian or Korean Buddhist friends or neighbours or work-mates or classmates or business contacts, English-speaking/ English-learning, living in the US or Australia: get them to jihadwatch. Give them 'Islam: What the West Needs to Know'. Give them Spencer's books.
If they're Christians, give them Mark Durie's book, 'Revelation?' which briefly and clearly explains the bottomless gulf that separates the anthropology and theology of Islam, from the anthropology and theology of Biblical faith, of Jews and of Christians.
at October 18, 2008 4:56 AM
I don't know what to say guys, but you really have no understanding of the Christian life.... this is nothing!
There is only one country left Chrisitan, and they want that one out too....Lebanon. The last Chrsitian president and patriarch.
It is one thing to post an article or two, but from our Middle Eastern CHRISTIAN point of view....should we clap?
Maybe we should....because this is about the only help we ever get....Israel is the one who gets the tanks and guns.
Posted by: orangeblossom at October 20, 2008 12:25 AM
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