So, assuming that all involved in a polygamous marriage are consenting adults ... what right has the State to interfere?

You're being hypocritical on this issue - you want to enforce Christian law (which prohibits polygamy) on non-Christians.

To be clear, I'm not arguing that Muslims should have special exemption from laws prohibiting polygamy, I am arguing that laws prohibiting polygamy (or in fact any consensual adult relationship) should not exist.

Posted by: Duncan Bayne at December 7, 2008 6:00 PM

"You're being hypocritical on this issue "
Posted by: Duncan Bayne

This is a joke, right?

A man is caught speeding, and his defense is he has two wives?

Posted by: Larry at December 7, 2008 6:13 PM

yeah now western europe should be an "anonymous society" without roots, without principles and traditions .Let's just ditch our judeo-christian (and platonician) ethic.
My god, moral relativism is a cancer ...

Posted by: Péguy at December 7, 2008 6:24 PM

Duncan,
The problem with your attitude is that Islam would never allow a woman to have more than one husband. And if a guys has 4 wives, that leaves three guys with a lot of time for, I don't know, how about jihad, maybe? And then some will justify the practice because, with those excitable lads having blown themselves up, there are widows who need some polygamous guy to take them in, which is very convenient for the caliphate. Demography bores will tell you that having an excess amount of unattached guys is a dangerous problem for society.

Posted by: sophia1453 at December 7, 2008 7:10 PM

We're being hypocritical? Holding all people to the same standard is hypocritical? In what sicko-pervert parallel universe does that hold true? Polygyny is the height of hypocrisy and narcissism. This creep is mentally ill. It's not a Christian law. It's a reasonable, decent, thinking, moral, ethical, civilized, evolved, outbred, upright-walking, non-knuckle-dragging, backbone-possessing, soul-possessing, sane law.

Posted by: jdamn at December 7, 2008 7:14 PM

Duncan is right - the state has no right to deny legal status to polygamy. Perfectly fine. But let's not stop there - we can't impose "Christian Law" on non-Christians.

What about the poor pedophiles? They have rights too! And what about bestiality? Why discriminate against them? Why can't somebody marry their sheep?

Those darn Christianists! That's the real threat against an egalitarian society. We have to stop them before they kill again!

Posted by: Ernie Banks at December 7, 2008 8:27 PM

Duncan.. This is too easy. First of all you ask what right the state has to impose their laws on these people? The moment they choose to live in a country, they are obligated to obey the laws of the counntry THEY VOLUNTARILY MOVED TO!!

Second, as was pointed out, the guy has now been given permission to speed when he wants because he has two wives. Or are you defending that too?

Third, Why should he or any other polygamous household get more benefits than if he had one wife?
The moment one penny is taken from me to support someone else, it becomes my business. End of story.

Posted by: one of the chosen people at December 7, 2008 8:49 PM

"He has one wife in Motherwell and another in Glasgow and sleeps with one one night and stays with the other the next on an alternate basis. Without his driving license he would be unable to do this on a regular basis."

Even though it’s not really funny, I couldn’t help but laugh. It’s like a story from the Cartoon Planet Times.

It’s no wonder Muslim men are killing each other all the time, too much stiff competition for too few women. And I mean that in all seriousness. If feminists think they've got it something to complain about now, just wait till this quaint little "custom" spreads.

Academics justify it, while politicians blithely meet with polygamists or declare Westerners should "find a way to live with it" and journalists describe polygamy with empathy, sympathy and compassion.

Let me see now, Marxist academics and politicians want to eliminate capitalism... so there won't be a way to better your life through ingenuity, competition, and hard work. And, they want to allow the ratio of available women to... shall we say anxious men to fall waaay below 1 to 1. I get it now; the competition will be limited to fighting over raw power and women.

Gezuz, why didn't I think of that? Oh, yeah, now I remember, we gave it up hundreds of years ago because we were killing each other all the time.

Those goofy dweebs have no idea what their getting into. Westerners should "find a way to live with it"?… What an interesting way to put it.

Sympathetic to the polygamist's plight, the judge permitted him to retain his license.

Comedy judge in comedy court. Glasgow, you crack me up.

Let the games begin.

Posted by: RalphInfidel at December 7, 2008 8:54 PM

Political correctness has run so amok that it defies belief.

Polygamy is degrading to women. Period.

Posted by: Always On Watch at December 7, 2008 9:15 PM

That douchehat claims to be an objectivist! Funny, but the English definition of 'objectivity' is Golden Rule morality, one standard for everyone, and one set of rules. In his most non-objective, sicko-pervert parallel universe, women are necessarily subhuman, obviously, and so are Muslims if they are not to be held to any standard whatsoever, be it moral, ethical, or legal. And he calls us "hypocrites." Why is it always the people who lack 7th-grade educations who invoke hypocrisy at the same time that they most hypocritically practice it?

Posted by: jdamn at December 7, 2008 9:49 PM

The suffering caused by polygamy is horrendous. It destroys any possibility of trust between a man and a woman, it creates problems for the children, and there's nothing to recommend it. To confuse polygamy with some kind of laidback suburban adultery where everyone's 'swinging' shows a real lack of understanding.

Posted by: jewcat at December 7, 2008 10:29 PM

Next time I get a speeding ticket I'm going to try the old "trying to get to my other husband" excuse.

Just ridiculous.

Posted by: charlie at December 7, 2008 10:37 PM

Polygamy is exactly how you get people like Osama bin Laden. His mother was his father's least favorite wife. In a society in which women and children are second-class citizens, being even lower on the totem pole and vying for a father's attention, not to mention having a caste system in an already segregated home explains the level of hatred and victimhood that Muslims thrive on. Even if it isn't practiced, the possibility that one's family can become second fiddle in their own home overnight ruins all trust and dignity.

Posted by: jdamn at December 7, 2008 10:49 PM

As I was looking through The Daniel Pipes archives about Muslims and their marriage practices, one comment from a reader touched me a great deal.

"I'm a muslim from an Islamic country, all these stuff about Muslims are real, I hope with the help of christianity and other religions, all of these will vanish from the earth".

I rather hope it was a male Muslim saying that; in any case it is heartening and encouraging. It often seems that we have got to the stage where we must fight just to save our own skins, as Christians or at least as Westerners - but we can maybe hope for more, if we put our minds to it.

Remember, they don't all hate us, and some - who knows how many? - are depending on us, as we still operate from a basis of relative freedom, while they are trapped, physically if not mentally.

Posted by: PG at December 7, 2008 11:43 PM

And yet his stance not that he should change or that his society should change, but that our society owes it to his to make change, even though we will get killed and pay a fortune doing it, because that worked so well in Iraq, and because wherever Muslims are close to Jews and Christians and Buddhists and Hindus they try to learn from us rather than slaughter and extort us. Furthermore, he's so uneducated and has such a warped worldview that he thinks that legitimate religions manifest themselves in laws, because the free world came about through state religion in his crazy version of reality. And those and the smarter, more decent ones. The Muslim world is screwed. Mentally trapped indeed. Trapped in a pre-civilizational hellhole of idiocy and evil.

Posted by: jdamn at December 7, 2008 11:55 PM

Let's bend the rules for islam, again! This is like some bad B movie that keeps repeating itself, over and over again, throughout the west and europistan! More women's rights from the modern world of 7th century islam. Muslim women have it rotten enough without this type discrimination but what choice do they have? The more it thrown in our faces and lives, the more accpeting we should be, academic's justify it and we, in the west should learn to"live with it." Wrong, as jdam made it very clear this is just wrong from every angle, not matter how you slice it.

Why should the west accept what is perversevly
permitted in other countries? Oh, I forgot! It is us that have to bend islam's will and be dominated by that cult from hell. I missed the memo on this one along with many others about what we should be "accepting and learning to live with." Where ever muslims go, they alawys bring their filthy lifestyle with them. Way to go Scotland! I think this judge would be a perfect fit for the 9th circus court of appeals in San Francisco. Get them all together and move them to Detroitistan or one of those private muslim enclaves where this kind of perversion is normal.
Islam ='s perversion and it is a cancer that threatens us all. Do you think BO has an extra wife or two stashed on the eastside or over in ohiostan???

Posted by: PatriotUSA at December 8, 2008 2:39 AM

Stupid men die in Jihad. Smart men have many wives and sons. If you marry and die in Jihad, you leave a widow. And only a pussy marries a widow. A real man accepts nothing less than a virgin.

Posted by: Columnist at December 8, 2008 3:04 AM

Scots!?, theyve been ruining Britain for the last 12 years did you really think they were going to suddenly stop.

Posted by: OLDEngland at December 8, 2008 3:41 AM

As posted before, Motherwell to Glasgow is, depending on which parts of the relevant cities, at best about 12 miles and at worst about 25 miles.

Posted by: grobari at December 8, 2008 5:39 AM

That's not all, a polygamist in Brown's Britain can also claim state benefits for all his wives (in between churning out babies and looking after her husbands needs and looking after her numerous kids, there is little time to actually find work and support ones on self). He can also receive child benefits for all his kids borne to his multi wives.

A muslim polygamist is nothing short of a millstone around the country's dwindling financial resources.

And what of these kids? are they going to grow up learning about the history of this sceptered isle? Are they going to grow up with the pride of being British willing to lay down their lives for King and country?

Like hell they are. Their loyalty will be to islam and no one else. Their history will be that of muhammad's, their cue will come from a distant land in a desert and their culture will not be that of a suit and tie but of kameez and kurta.

He will not be interested in the War of the Roses, but the war with the Jews and Christians and of course the pagans.

All paid for of course, by the very tax payers and the system of governance that he will no doubt, grow up to despise.

Posted by: Hermit at December 8, 2008 5:52 AM

Columnist, so real man = pedophile. Got it.

Posted by: jdamn at December 8, 2008 8:11 AM

Geez, why doesn't he just ride one of England's famous trains? They run everywhere, no?

I cannot stand this cultural relativism.

Posted by: Vee at December 8, 2008 8:15 AM

From post above: Stupid men die in Jihad. Smart men have many wives and sons...

It would seem that way to a kufr. But getting killed in jihad, gets you 72 virgins who don't argue or complain, and those 'boys pure as pearls'...and wine and fruit...

While the Mohammadan with four wives has to put up with quadruple personalities, complaints, and assorted problems that the dead jihadi does not have...No wonder dead jihadi's are happy, while those with multiple wives need therapy...

Posted by: duh_swami at December 8, 2008 10:46 AM

Duncan.. This is too easy. First of all you ask what right the state has to impose their laws on these people? The moment they choose to live in a country, they are obligated to obey the laws of the counntry THEY VOLUNTARILY MOVED TO!!
Posted by: one of the chosen people

We in the West living under constitutional democracies choose our laws, while in the Mohammetan countries they are slaves to their laws of Allah. They chose to live in our constitutional democracies, so they MUST live under our laws, or else their entry should be denied.

There is a simple solution to this problem: Ask them on their entry application if they either believe in, or have, polygamous marriage. If they answer “yes” their entry is automatically DENIED. If they answer “no” then have their marriage records investigated, and if found out the man lied, application stamped ENTRY DENIED.

Live by our laws, or you and your wives don’t bother coming here. End of story.

Posted by: Battle_of_Tours at December 8, 2008 11:53 AM

Make that "if they believe in ANY aspect of Sharia." There is absolutely no middle ground between Sharia and decency.

Posted by: jdamn at December 8, 2008 12:00 PM

"Columnist, so real man = pedophile. Got it.

Posted by: jdamn at December 8, 2008 8:11 AM"

You don't want to go there, kallah!!!

I simply pointed out the tensions within the muslim view.

Posted by: Columnist at December 8, 2008 1:12 PM

"Columnist, so real man = pedophile. Got it.

Posted by: jdamn at December 8, 2008 8:11 AM"

Kinsey:Crimes and Consequences, anyone?!
Both liberals and conservatives accuse each other of pedophilia. Let's keep debate civil.

Posted by: Columnist at December 8, 2008 1:15 PM

What is revealed here is the difference between how today's gov'ts deal with their own subjugated domestic population vs how they deal with aggressive foreign forces.

Christians go to jail for polygamy, aggressive scary foreigners get accommodation.

Posted by: joeblough at December 8, 2008 1:30 PM

" And only a pussy marries a widow. A real man accepts nothing less than a virgin."

Only an inadequate loser that women laugh at in bed would worry about that.

Posted by: KrazyKafir at December 8, 2008 4:58 PM

Another thing wrong with this kind of legal decision is that when it is heard about, Muslim men will - can I presume? - become further emboldened to go home and fetch more wives. Potentially then, we in the welfare-West will be required to support four wives and twenty children for one Muslim man: I don't know about England, but here in Australia if a woman has several children she is not obliged to look for work.

Furthermore, with the pulling of girls out of their Muslim countries to be multiple wives in the West, there will be fewer girls in their own countries for the men to marry; this could lead to further militarization of the men there - or further incentive for those men to go to the West, or both. And possibly other consequences; who knows which, as we experiment with our beloved multiculturalism to the point of oblivion.

Posted by: PG at December 8, 2008 5:55 PM

Oh PG they do! I read an article here about the fact that the British social services give out welfare to these Muslims with multiple wives and children though it is against the law there! I send these articles to my British nephew-in-law and thank God he has a great sence of humor and only accuses me of making sure he brings my niece home to live here in the US. (Of course I am!)

And with the practice of female infanticide just wait until China confronts it's so many more men than women problem which will soon cause at least 20% of the male population to have no women to marry. Won't that be fun! Chinese women will finally get some respect!

I think I could cry this is so awful. A judge condoning this kind of behavior is despicable.

Posted by: CLL1709 at December 8, 2008 7:47 PM

OT re shortage of women in China.

The really devout Christian families, in China, when they have their one permitted child and it's a daughter, *do* rear her. After all, she is a gift from God. So it is possible that a significant percentage of the - scarce - available marriageable girls, might be Christian.

How many lonely young Chinese hound dawgs are going to jump into the baptismal font / pond/pool, in order to be able to marry that virtuous Christian girl who has stated firmly that she prefers to marry a fellow Christian, thank you very much? How many are going to go prowling and howling off to the local church because it's the only place they can find...girls?

(Men do strange things. My own dad told my mother, while they were courting, that if she would let him see her hair down, he would attend church [she was very devout; she also had long, lovely blond hair which she always wore pinned up in a bun]. Well: she did; and so, he did.)

Posted by: dumbledoresarmy at December 9, 2008 11:51 PM

I am sorry to disappoint you, but from what I can see young Chinese women are quickly becoming very arrogant about their status as being in short supply. They think they can get away with anything and still have a range of choices, and the poor men can only hope to get any kind of wife at all. (Saw a show on TV about trollopy Chinese girls going from one man to another, making big demands on them, etc.)And considering Chinese girls are in great demand with Western men as well...not a good scenario for young Chinese men.
Bah to Mao's communism (which doubled the population in one generation), globalization, as well as Islam! What a mess!

Posted by: PG at December 10, 2008 12:38 AM

I think that's awesome. They treated women like crap for centuries and now they're their bitches and women can get away with anything. Divine justice. I would love to see this happen in the Muslim world. Unfortunately, they just kill off the pretty women and sex slavery is arranged and is a business transaction, so there's no bell curve. If they need more women they just ask their sisters to breed them and then buy them as sex slaves once they turn 4.

Posted by: jdamn at December 10, 2008 5:12 AM