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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Indonesia’s Abu Bakar Bashir: A lesson for the infidels

Sep 18, 2004 7:26 am By Robert Spencer

A revealing interview with a jihadist leader. From The Bulletin, with thanks to Kevin:

“I suspect that America and Australia themselves are behind the [embassy] bombing, for two reasons: one, the US issued a travel warning before the bombing. It means they already knew in advance; and two, the bomb intentionally exploded about the embassy gates which made victims of ordinary people, who are Muslim. It means it is aimed at pushing Islam into a corner. On these two indicators, I suspect the US and Australia are behind the bombing.

I disagree with fighting using bombing in a peaceful country like Indonesia. But I always appreciate the will and the purpose of those who fight against those who make war on Islam but the method is not correct if they use weapons in a peaceful country. But if we fight in the theatre of war, it is allowed.

We don’t need to compromise. The Islamic state must be fought for. If the [Indonesian] constitution says it is against sharia [Islamic law]. it is all a slander on Islam. All these disasters have continuously occurred, such as bombings, flooding and other destructions. This is simply because Allah has made it happen since the authority of this country has undermined Islamic law.

From Sukarno until today, the government has denied Allah’s law and, even worse, has harassed the law of Allah. The law of Allah has long been praised but here in Indonesia it has been rejected. That is the source of all these disasters in this country. If you are not serious in fighting to implement sharia, it will be difficult for us so I call on Majlis Mujahadeen Indonesia [Resistance Council of Indonesia] for their full effort….

Can Indonesia and Australia exist peacefully as neighbours?

Yes they can, as long as Australia understands they should not fight a war on Islam. We even can live together with America, under the same conditions. In Islam, we are asked to peacefully help non-Muslims as long as non-Muslims do not disturb Islam and do not make war on Islam. That is Allah’s order, we have to live peacefully and help each other and commit good and just deeds with the non-Muslims. But if they disturb Islam, there should be a barrier so that we are not allowed to be friends again. The problem is right there.

Philip Flood [who recently held an inquiry into Australia’s intelligence services] said the problem of terror in Indonesia begins in the pesantrens [Islamic teaching schools], and that action must be taken to shut them down. What do you say to this?

[Grows very angry/exasperated.] That is the basic mistake of Australia. Why do they accuse the pesantrens? The pesantren is the place where people are taught understanding of the true Islam and how to be devoted to Islam. But these devotees are considered fundamentalists by non-Muslims. So that is the Australian mistake. The pesantrens teaching true Islam will actually bring a peaceful life. So why make this a controversy? Those who make this a problem are kafir [strong Arabic word for infidels/unbelievers] and never Islam. Kafir, especially Jews and Christians, are not happy with the people who are devoted to Islam.

When that Australian man says there are problems in the pesantren, it shows the purpose of America and Australia is to destroy Islam from the inside. That is not the solution. The solution is that the kafir must have the will to live side-by-side with Islam and not disturb Islamic people who are devoted to their religion. If the kafir are willing to let Muslims be devoted to their faith, they will receive just treatment — it is said in the Koran. If Muslims want to rule their countries with sharia [Islamic law], do not forbid it.

Is there a “clash of civilisations”?

America will not be a superpower if Islam stands up. It is clear [a clash of civilisations] because kafir are evil and Islam is good but even though there is a clash, Islam can be peaceful. As long as the kafir lets Islam practise their religion, we Muslims will also let the kafir practise their own religion. Islam is not allowed to force kafir to convert into Muslims so between kafir and Islam, there will always be a clash of ideology but even so we can still live peacefully as long as they don’t disturb Islam. We believe all Christians will be in hell after death but maybe Christians have another belief. Just let it be….

How can Indonesia deal with this situation?

The world and Indonesia belong to Allah. Therefore it should be ruled under Allah’s law without bargaining. I believe that the clash of civilisations will continue but in the end, Islam will definitely win. It has been predicted by our Prophet Mohammad.

Is that because of a lack of knowledge of Islam by the West?

No, they just do not want to understand. As long as the West do not want to live peacefully and always force Islam to change in line with its own interests, this clash will continue. Peace can only be achieved after Islams triumphs.…

What do you want to say to Australia?

I suggest to the Australian people and government, if you all want to be safe and good, please try to embrace Islam because you are created by Allah for Islam. It’s only now that you are being disturbed by demons. If you are still unwilling not to embrace Islam, do not follow the steps of George Bush.

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