Taqiyya alert: Cid Martel of Dutchdisease.com has kindly sent over a translation of this Dutch-language interview with the female head of a Dutch mosque, Leyla Cakir: “Islamic terror and other misunderstandings.”
The female head of the Ilhas mosque in Geleen, Leyla Cakir, will be part of a discussion about integration this Sunday. We asked her eight daring questions about Islam.
1. Integration of Muslims has taken a very bad turn, the murder of Theo van Gogh tells us that part of the Muslims in Holland do not wish to integrate.
Leyla Cakir: “The killer was integrated, wasn’t he? He was born here, he spoke the Dutch language and he studied here. What he did has nothing to do with him being a Muslim, it was just a murder. It’s a pity he did it in the name of Islam. It set us back ten steps.”
Her point about the killer’s being integrated is well taken, and good to bear in mind. But her deceptiveness is amazingly brazen in saying that a murder in which the killer pinned Qur’anic verses to the victim’s body and threatened other “blasphemers” has “nothing to do with him being a Muslim.” By that standard, no killing could ever possibly have anything to do with one’s being a Muslim — but those who hold such a view are either lying or willfully blinding themselves to the facts.
2. Muslims have a different kind of humour and don’t accept jokes about Mohammed, Islam or their spiritual leaders. They don’t take criticism very well. This is not compatible with democracy.
Leyla Cakir: “I have a good sense of humour. If a stand-up comic or columnist makes jokes about Islam I can understand that, it has a function. But it’s different when politicians say things about religion. They have to stay out of it. We have separation of church and state, don’t we?”
Sure. I guess that means you are renouncing any intention, now or in the future, to bring a Sharia government to Holland?
3. Remarks made by outspoken politicians like Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders lead to an honest debate about Islam and integration.
Leyla Cakir: “I don’t know a lot about Islam, neither does Hirsi Ali. But she’s portrayed like she studied the Quran. With her remarks she paints a picture of Muslim women as being suppressed and abused. I agree with her struggle but only if it’s against the oppression of all women. It has nothing to do with religion, on the contrary. I know a lot of women that grew stronger because of their religion, Islam helped emancipate them. What Hirsi Ali and Wilders talk about has nothing to do with politics but with provocation.”
Does Qur’an 4:34 have nothing to do with Islam either?
4. Islam is antagonistic and a hotbed for terrorists.
“There is no such thing as Islamic terror. Islam means peace. Young Muslims become radical out of desperation. For instance, because they are not accepted, can’t find a job and constantly have to defend their faith and people address them for what terrorists do. Plus they”re often still searching, they don’t know exactly what the meaning of Islam is and through the internet they can come into contact with the wrong ideas. The mosque can help them with this, but the government also has to cooperate.”
Even some Saudis have acknowledged that poverty doesn’t breed terrorism. And to dismiss the Islamic arguments used by jihadists, samples of which I have posted on this site innumerable times, as if they don’t exist is simply to play on non-Muslim ignorance.
5. In the war against terror some liberties will have to buckle.
“I think a lot is possible with existing rules. It looks like politicians don’t know what rules are already in place. They don’t know how to fight terrorism and want to make it look like they”re doing something about it. We put all freedoms aside to fight Muslims. But you have to address the root causes by making foreigners feel accepted and welcome.”
Self-contradiction alert for Leyla Cakir: “The killer [of van Gogh] was integrated, wasn’t he? He was born here, he spoke the Dutch language and he studied here.” But now integration — a word which Cakir repudiates later but which clearly will make “foreigners feel welcome” — will fight terrorism?
6. Extremist sites on the internet should be closed down as soon as possible. Foreigners that preach hatred should be sent out of the country.
“If it helps you have to close down those sites. I wonder if it will help. Besides, there are also nazi websites. You have to take care of them also. It’s true that young foreigners are searching for information on Islam and come into contact with the wrong ideas on the internet. If you can prevent that by closing sites you have to do that. And throwing people out of the country? Then you have to throw everyone out who preaches hatred, not just Muslims.” [It’s impossible to throw out people who have only one passport, the point is that we can kick out people with two passports like most Moroccans and Turks –Cid Martel.]
7. People who don’t speak the language and don’t celebrate carnival aren’t naturalised.
This is the level on which the debate is being conducted, even though Europe’s very life depends on it.
“I used to celebrate carnival in school but not exuberantly. Not anymore, I don’t like it. That’s not a criterion. Speaking the language is a criterion. But my mother doesn’t speak Dutch very well. She came here thirty years ago, the Dutch deliberately brought in uneducated people. You can’t expect them to learn Dutch, in that time they were never asked. Besides, communication is for the most part body language. When my mother goes to the butcher or the baker she talks to everyone.
8. Integration can prevent terrorism and extremism but the concept of integration is too vague and requires rules that are clear.
“Maybe we should stop talking about integration altogether, and talk about living together. Because integration is definitely too vague a term, nobody knows exactly what it means. But we all know what it means to live together. It’s mutual, you have to accept each other.”
Indeed. As van Gogh’s murder indicates, it’s the acceptance from the adherents of Sharia that has not been forthcoming.