A commenter on this thread has posted some statements from an article Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald wrote at another place, and has made some general allegations and asked some general questions about this site and my intentions. Since these are common questions, and quotes like these from Hugh are common fodder for those who attempt to discredit our work here, I thought I would post the commenter’s messages to me and my reply as a separate post, for the reference of any fair-minded readers who might happen along.
First came this message from “RickS,” replying to an earlier poster:
Ispanan –
Of course, there is always Hugh’s article “Islam for the Perplexed” – not written, as far as I can tell, as an “alternative” to Tancredo’s suggestion.
“The second important goal is to stop all Moslem migration from Moslem lands, to the U.S., to Canada, to Western Europe. For obvious reasons, Moslems do not migrate to Eastern Europe and Russia. If possible, not only should migration be stopped, but life can be made more difficult, if not by the government, then by private individuals, so that Moslems will be discouraged from remaining.
What do I mean? I mean that we, as private citizens, do not have to hire Moslems, we do not have to buy their goods, or make their lives, economically, more rewarding. It may seem mean, and many of you may be offended by it, and I am perfectly aware that there are nice Moslems, that there are those who simply ignore the main tenets of Islam. But as a group, the Moslems are a threat to me and those I love. Even the innocent ones, merely by being here, swell Moslem political power.”
In the St. Petersburg Times article that was recently linked to on JihadWatch, Robert Spencer said that “he bans” the “racists” who visit his site. Both quotes from him. Now, I know there are many among you who will say “Muslim” is a not a race. Clearly true, but the quote was in the context of people who are bigoted against Muslims. (To put this in context, the definition of Anti-Semitism in the M-W dictionary is: “hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group.” I’ll assume good faith in your statement and assume you meant the same, just replacing the word “Jews” with “Muslims”)
Seems that Hugh, “as a group, the Moslems are a threat to me and those I love”, qualifies.
Mr. Spencer: Will you a) clarify whether you also hold similar opinions to those above and b) ban Hugh from JihadWatch as one of the “racists” you claim to abhor?
Will you also make an unconditional statement that you are against those who hold or practice “hostility toward or discrimination against any religious, ethnic, or racial group, including Muslims”?
Thank you.
Then another poster recommended that he email me, as I usually don’t read the comments here, to which “RickS” responded:
Archimedes –
Thank you – good idea.
Re: the Quran, yes I have read it. I don’t dispute the fact that the much quoted verses are in there. I also don’t think that what is in the Quran is any worse than what is found in the Bible (esp the Old Testament). All Muslims that I know believe in the Quran literally, but also have a very strong grasp of the concept of context – that much of the Quran was day to day instruction at the time it was revealed, while other partss were eternal mandates. Almost all of the verses quoted by those who want to demonize it fall into the former.
I do dispute the idea that the quoted constitute a majority of the verses, and I doubt the motives of people, like Spencer, who emphasize that without a single mention of the more positive, and common, elements of the Quran.
I also know, from first hand experience being in the Middle East, that Jihadist ideology is not widespread amongst Muslims. Nationalism explains (but does not excuse) most of the violence (Kashmir, Palestinians, Thailand, Iran, etc) better than religion. That jihadist groups have infiltrated these groups is very dangerous, I agree.
Frankly, I am as worried about Jihadists as everyone here is. I also agree with Stephen Schwartz that the Wahhabis are extremely dangerous, and they they must be stopped.
But I strongly believe that people like Hugh, who would easily be counted as an Anti-Semite if he had written the stuff he publishes about Jews instead of Muslims, are bigots of the worst kind.
And I believe Robert Spencer is trying to have it both ways – operating what I do consider to be a thinly disguised hate site while providing what I also consider to be valuable news and information about a real threat.
However, RickS did not email me, but Jihad Watch reader Miss Moneypenney alerted me to his posts, whereupon I posted this reply:
My dear “RickS”:
No need to email me. I have not read this whole thread but a reader alerted me to your questions.
Yes, Hugh is against Muslim immigration into Western lands. He opposes this because of the abundantly documented fact that violent jihadists operate within Western Muslim communities and that those communities have made little or no practical effort to root them out. Vague condemnations of “terrorism” that do nothing to address jihadist theological arguments not only do not cut it, but by their vagueness and obvious inadequacy raise suspicions as to their overall purpose.
As long as all that remains true, what natural right do Muslims have to settle into Western countries? Must Western governments cheerfully aid in the importation of large groups of people among whom are significant numbers who wish to remake their societies to the grave detriment of women and non-Muslims?
I personally am not in favor of ending Muslim immigration. But I believe that renunciation of any desire to implement Sharia and similar statements should be a condition of residency, and that the continuation of that residency should be contingent upon adherence to those statements. Just as former Nazis, when discovered, can be deported, no matter how long they have lived here.
This is a matter of defending universal human rights. You, on the other hand, decry it as “racist,” saying, “Robert Spencer said that ‘he bans’ the ‘racists’ who visit his site. Both quotes from him.”
Incomplete and inadequate quotes, indicative of the inadequacy of the whole article. As I have said many times here, comments are unmoderated. I never see 90% of them. Unless somebody brings a post to my attention, I probably will not delete it. If you wish not to be adversarial but to help in this work, send me notice of such posts, and I will delete them.
You continue: “Now, I know there are many among you who will say ‘Muslim’ is a not a race. Clearly true, but the quote was in the context of people who are bigoted against Muslims. (To put this in context, the definition of Anti-Semitism in the M-W dictionary is: ‘hostility toward or discrimination against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group.’ I’ll assume good faith in your statement and assume you meant the same, just replacing the word ‘Jews’ with ‘Muslims’).”
I am one who will say that Islam is not a race. It isn’t. It is a religious ideology. People of any race can and do hold to it. I am not interested in keeping white jihadists here and deporting brown jihadists. That would be racism; it would also be asinine. To say, on the other hand, that I don’t want those who want to impose Sharia law, which violates norms of human rights that are otherwise universally accepted, to be here, and that as long as a larger group does nothing to stop such people from living and working within it, that larger group is under suspicion, that has nothing to do with racism or bigotry. Bigotry is an irrational hatred of a group. I don’t hate anyone; I simply oppose a murderous ideology of supremacism and oppression. Your analogy about the Jews founders on the fact that there is no global movement of Jews working to impose Jewish laws on the rest of us. Nazi Jew-hatred was essentially racial: the Nazis had all sorts of race laws to determine who was a Jew and who was not. That, sir, is racism.
If, on the other hand, the Muslim communities in the West today proclaimed their renunciation of Sharia now and forever, and acceptance of Western pluralism and peaceful coexistence with non-Muslims, and full genuine equality of rights for women, and began to manifest the truth of such statements by their actions, well, I would be the first to welcome them by the planeload into our nation. But to assume that all who arrive here have already done that when there is so much evidence to the contrary — that is just foolhardy. And it is in that context that I read Hugh’s statement that you quote: “as a group, the Moslems are a threat to me and those I love.” If you read his whole article (it is not on this site, but I’m sure you can find it), you will see that he explicitly says that all Muslims are not terrorists, etc. But the problem is, again, this business of distinguishing. I have said many times that it is virtually impossible to tell a moderate from a jihadist Muslim. Some have seized on that as some kind of statement of bigotry. I can’t see why it would be. It is simply a statement of fact, confirmed by the strange life paths of Maher Hawash, Fawaz Damra, Ahmed Omar Abu Ali, the Lackawanna Six, and so many others. Where is the firewall? If there is one, why is it so spectacularly ineffective on so many occasions?
So finally, I will not dismiss Hugh from his position here, because he is not a racist, and because I (and he also, I am sure) would happily make, as you bid us to, “an unconditional statement that [I am] against those who hold or practice ‘hostility toward or discrimination against any religious, ethnic, or racial group, including Muslims.'” Self-defense is not hostility or discrimination. Awareness of the facts of the case is not hostility or discrimination. Let the Muslims in America begin to expel and expose jihadists, working with law enforcement, and teaching pluralism and the equality of rights of all instead of the hatred of Jews and Christians that Freedom House discovered in so many mosques just last year, and I will welcome them happily. Let them stop opposing sensible measures like the monitoring of mosques for radiation, and I will applaud them.
You also say: “I also don’t think that what is in the Quran is any worse than what is found in the Bible (esp the Old Testament).” You are quite wrong in this. The Qur’an contains open-ended statements calling for Muslims to wage war against all unbelievers. The Old Testament does not. What’s more, traditional Islamic theology holds those statements to be valid for all time. No Jewish or Christian group teaches anything similar on the basis of the Old Testament.
And you add: “All Muslims that I know believe in the Quran literally, but also have a very strong grasp of the concept of context – that much of the Quran was day to day instruction at the time it was revealed, while other partss were eternal mandates. Almost all of the verses quoted by those who want to demonize it fall into the former. I do dispute the idea that the quoted constitute a majority of the verses, and I doubt the motives of people, like Spencer, who emphasize that without a single mention of the more positive, and common, elements of the Quran.”
If you had read my books you would know that I discuss all this at great length, particularly in “Onward Muslim Soldiers.” In that book I discuss the Qur’an’s relatively tolerant verses and how traditional Islamic theology holds them abrogated. I am not the originator of this perspective. I just report on it. Here is a Muslim explication of it: http://www.islamworld.net/jihad.html
But at this point I am not writing this to you, because I can tell that you are not disposed to think anything but ill of me. However, I am writing it for unbiased observers who may be reading this.
You say: “I also know, from first hand experience being in the Middle East, that Jihadist ideology is not widespread amongst Muslims.” That is, alas, changing.
You say: “But I strongly believe that people like Hugh, who would easily be counted as an Anti-Semite if he had written the stuff he publishes about Jews instead of Muslims, are bigots of the worst kind.”
If Hugh had written about Jews what he wrote about Muslims, he would not only be a bigot; he would be a liar. But the fact that what can be truthfully said about one group cannot be truthfully said about another does not make it untrue, or bigoted. Especially when the group in question exists as a group because of its shared ideology. If that ideology has abhorrent features, that is simply a matter of fact. It must be dealt with somehow, and not allowed to continue because of fear of “bigotry” or “racism.”
You say: “And I believe Robert Spencer is trying to have it both ways – operating what I do consider to be a thinly disguised hate site while providing what I also consider to be valuable news and information about a real threat.”
In this you are like those who decried anti-Nazi efforts as “hatred of Germans” or anti-Communist efforts as “hatred of Russians,” and you reveal yourself as just another one of those whom the ones who wish to destroy us find so useful.
Cordially
Robert Spencer