The latest Muslim Martin Luther, taking up the tattered crown from the cynical, deceptive Tariq Ramadan, is Egypt’s General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who has called for a reformation within Islam. Such a reformation is certainly urgently needed, and even in calling for it, Sisi has gone much farther than the Muslim Brotherhood scion Ramadan ever did.
Sisi, however, is a general, not a member of the Egyptian ulama; his words are unlikely to spark a mass movement for general reformation of the elements of Islam that give impetus to violence and supremacism. And the existence of those elements, and people who believe in them, is likely to menace Sisi for simply making this call — as others have been menaced for calling for reform in Islam in the past. Just last year, the Moroccan activist Ahmed Assid condemned violence in Islam’s name, and was promptly declared an apostate and an enemy of Allah by Muslim clerics, and threatened with death. The Iraqi Shi’ite scholar Sayyed Ahmad Al-Qabbanji called for reason in Islamic discourse and jurisprudence, and was immediately arrested.
Sisi has the power of the state behind him, for now, so such a fate is not likely to befall him, at least in the near future.
“Islamic ‘Martin ‘Luther’ issues his proclamation,” by James Zumwalt for UPI, January 28:
HERNDON, Va., Jan. 28 (UPI) — During late January, two high-profile personalities took actions — one outside the United States and one within — that couldn’t be any farther apart in terms of their global impact.
Due to irresponsible media coverage, the first story — with major global impact — went unreported while the second — involving an out-of-control, spoiled 19-year old kid — kept grabbing daily headlines.
Starring in the latter was Canadian entertainer Justin Bieber whose drinking, drugging and reckless driving binge in Florida was ended by police, fortunately before he killed anyone. The other action starred Egyptian leader Gen. Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who made the bombshell announcement it is time for Muslims to reform Islam, bringing it into sync with modern times….
While the United States’ Islamic nightmare seems unending, time will have to tell whether Sisi’s declaration will have its intended Martin Luther-esque effect on the religion.
Sisi delivered a speech, saying, “Religious discourse is the greatest battle and challenge facing the Egyptian people, pointing to the need for a new vision and a modern, comprehensive understanding of the religion of Islam — rather than relying on a discourse that has not changed for 800 years.”
The “800 year” reference was to the year 1258 — allegedly when highly qualified Islamic scholars of the day (“mujtahids”) declared, through “ijtihad” (independent reasoning), they had officially resolved all disputes about religious doctrine. Therefore, the “gates of ijtihad” were closed to future debate as no scholar could ever again qualify as a mujtahid — obviously a somewhat short-sighted position to assume.
For Sisi to suggest reopening ijtihad “to improve the image of this religion in front of the world” is the equivalent of Martin Luther defiantly nailing his proclamation (known as “The Ninety-Five Theses”) to a church door in 1517, seeking to reform self-promoting Roman Catholic religious practices.
Exercising his “independent reasoning” within these 95 theses, Luther challenged existing church doctrine such as that suggesting the road to heaven was paved with monetary donations. He found the church’s “marketing jingle” — “As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs” — repugnant, teaching instead that heaven’s road was paved with good deeds performed for others.
Sisi has thrown a gauntlet at the feet of Islamic extremists embarked upon a journey of violence, chastising them for their “destruction around the world, due to the crimes falsely committed in the name of Islam.”
The Muslim world will pay more attention to the general’s message than has the West. It will be intriguing, however, to see whether an undercurrent for reform exists under the surface due to dissatisfaction with the high-profile violence extremists strive to maintain….
Only time will tell whether Sisi’s proclamation turns over a new leaf for Islam or simply initiates yet another violent phase in its history. The former guarantees him a respected place in history; the latter, a violent death.

mortimer says
Robert,
Of course, you know better than anyone that the scenario is one of recurring Greek tragedy here!
Any Islamic ruler who is evil and unjust, but enforces Sharia, must be obeyed. Any Islamic rule who is fair and just, but omits Sharia, must be murdered.
Of course, you remember what MB did to Sadat!
The Islamic ‘Reformation’ has already occurred in the person of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab (1703–1792). We are seeing Islam’s equivalent of a return to the original Islam as now practiced in Saudi Arabia…PURE Islam…the Islam of the Pioneers (Salafis).
Foolster says
Indeed, what needs to be mentioned every single time the term “a Muslim reformation” or ” a Muslim Martin Luther” is that Martin Luther’s reforms wasn’t taming a violent Christianity (as many far leftist anti-Christians would try to have us believe, and I’ve heard this line many many times), but removing corrupt elements that are not biblical (selling forgiveness etc.), and Islam conversely is at it’s core violent and any reformation would indeed by a taming of an innately violent religion.
Champ says
True; great comment, Foolster!
nacazo says
Judaism was a violent religion. Rebellion against the Roman oppressors was the yearly norm. How did they become so pacific?
They were defeated by the Romans in three wars.
Their main religious center was destroyed (akin to the Kaaba being destroyed)
The Jews were expulsed from their homeland (akin to getting all Arabs out of the Arabian peninsula)
Things that make you go hmmm
Foolster says
Nacazo:
No. You’re using what Jews did to try to define what the religion teaches.
(I don’t know you, but this is a common argument anti-Judiesm and anti-Christian bigots use over and over, and sounds a lot like a tu quo que fallacy.). Their absolutely not the same thing.
Just because some people did X thing, if it isn’t commanded by their religion it is a logical fa lacy to claim that “thus the religion teaches X.
There’s no open call for violence for all times in Judaism. There are commands to fight certain tribes that were wicked in a certain time and place. Also last time I checked Rome was actually an oppressive empire that conquered their land, and so if Jews wanted to fight back to take their homeland, that has nothing to do with the Jewish religion and whether or not it’s violent. This argument is absurd.
I have no idea what your point is about Jews being kicked out of their homeland and Arabs being kicked out of the peninsula (I’m pretty sure that never happened, and no one here is advocating such a thing, so it just reads as a total non sequitor).
…
Nacazo uses arguments commonly used by anti-Judism/Christian bigots, and tries to make tu quo que arguments against Judism.
Things that make you go hmmmmm.
Dennis Trisker says
Foolster: first it is Judaism and not Judism. Second I am Jewish and proud of my cultural inheritance. I also admit that when we were in the formative years creating a people hood and later a kingdom we were a violent people. We were so violent that we split into two Kingdoms, Israel and Judea. We even fought with each other. When the second temple was destroyed we went into exile and produced ethical reforms. Our great prophets began to preach justice, love and peacefulness. We also created in exile our greatest literature: Talmud, Gemorrah and the mystical Kaballah and Zohar. Most non-Jews have no idea of our history. It continues on even today in the exile and in Israel. New forms of Judaism challenge the biblical image of Jews created by both Muslims and Christians. I hope that Sisi can also bring about a reform. It certainly is possible. There are many educated and well meaning Muslims who are liberal and open minded and not particularly religious just as there are many educated and well-meaning Christians and Jews.
LemonLime says
For the purposes of sociopolitical policy (which must include — when threats are present and/or likely — protecting men, women and children from murder and torture and physical and psychological trauma and dislocation caused by enemies, as well as infrastructure destruction), what the followers of an ideology or religion do is no less important than the tenets they profess.
To put this principle another way, and underscored with simpler clarity: If there were a religion or ideology whose tenets professed the imperative to kill every other child in any society in which the followers live at random times — but not one follower had ever done this horrible crime nor ever tried to do it — then on a sociopolitical level, that religion and its followers could be deemed of low security concern (though it would still be prudent to surveil them).
Or let me put it in even another way:
If Baptists, or Episcopalians, or Presbyterians, or Amish, or Quakers, or Jehovah’s Witnesses, or zen Buddhists, or Shakyamuni Hindus, or Zoroastrians, or Agnostics Who Don’t Like Chocolate, were to have been doing what Muslims have been doing around the world in the past dozen years (including what their 1,001 revealed plots and disingenuous behaviors portend every minute of the day), I would want them rounded up and deported no less than I advocate for Muslims.
Spinoneone says
Roman troops occupied the current area of Israel in 63BC following the end of the Third Mithratic War. The Jewish people rebelled against the Roman occupation in 66AD-70AD and lost. Their Temple was destroyed and about ten percent of the Jewish population was deported to all points of the Empire. The Bar Kokbar rebellion of 132AD-135AD resulted in another loss by the Jewish people and the closing of Jerusalem to all Jews except for one day a year when they were allowed to enter the city and lament the destruction of the 2nd Temple. With the loss of the Temple the Jews reformed their worship from being led by Temple Priests to being led by Rabbis. The study of the Talmud was developed as was the transmission of the Jewish religion by teachers rather than priests. This system was in place throughout the Jewish world by about 300AD. Israel was conquered by Arabs in 638AD.
Bezelel says
Of course you conveniently left out the social norms of the people the Jews were resisting.Does the word barbarians ring a bell? Can you say that? Barbarians? HMMMMMM?
Defcon 4 says
On at least two occasions Israel was allied w/the Roman Republic against the Seleucids. But the Roman Republic was dead and gone by the time the Roman legions came to Jerusalem in conquest.
Charlie Griffith says
Look closely at that wonderfully depicted skeptical expression in the eyes of that famous [Albrect Durer?] portrait of Martin Luther. Very courageous man.
Those eyes seem to sum up the acute need for that needed Reformation.
gravenimage says
Charlie Griffith wrote:
Look closely at that wonderfully depicted skeptical expression in the eyes of that famous [Albrect Durer?] portrait of Martin Luther. Very courageous man.
…………………………….
Charlie, this painting of Martin Luther was done by Lucas Cranach, and was one of several—I agree, though, a wonderful portrait.
Certainly, the Muslim world has not only failed to create such art, but actually bans figurative work (except for a few lax exceptions where there was a strong local Infidel artistic tradition, as with the Mughal miniatures in medieval India).
Defcon 4 says
Muslo-nazis go way beyond merely banning figurative art. They will destroy/erase the art of other peoples given half the chance. Muslo-nazis burned down the library at Alexandria. they defaced and vandalized Armenian and Assyrian Churches in Turkey and in a more modern vein they destroyed two Buddhist statues in Afghanistan (statues that predated the existence of islam) this despite the fact China offered to bribe them to not do so.
boakai ngombu says
those skeptical eyes, caught by Cranach, were of a man who – with quill and ink – had led in the efforts to translate both the Old Testament and New into the German. those skeptical eyes had “seen” to truth in both Testaments, which
the ignorant Muslim scholars are too apt to dismiss … can’t believe anything in a language that isn’t the ancient Arabic … can’t even come near because of fear of being contaminated
the ignorant Muslim scholar, dismissing the previous revelations, has no concept of how pen and ink can bring on a reformation of spirit and mind
Al-Sisi has matured in that ignorance, and given a little power, may prefer to see blood and guts strewn about and give that no thought
gravenimage says
Sisi calls for “modern, comprehensive understanding of the religion of Islam”
……………………………….
Good luck with that.
Somehow I doubt that Al Azhar, which is in Egypt itself, is going to throw their support behind any “modern” concept of Islam.
More:
Just last year, the Moroccan cleric Ahmed Assid condemned violence in Islam’s name, and was promptly declared an apostate and an enemy of Allah by other clerics, and threatened with death. The Iraqi Shi’ite scholar Sayyed Ahmad Al-Qabbanji called for reason in Islamic discourse and jurisprudence, and was immediately arrested.
……………………………….
This—or simply assassination—is what tends to happen with any would-be reformers.
In fact, the figures who have generally had the most luck with enforcing a lax Islam are those relatively benign despots who keep fairly quiet about Islam, and just follow their own whims.
Even that might be pretty difficult in these times, with the “islamist” awakening of the “Arab Spring” and the Muslim Brotherhood.
I hope Al-Sisi is not simply denounced as an “Infidel” and “apostate”—but that is the most likely outcome.
More:
…pointing to the need for a new vision and a modern, comprehensive understanding of the religion of Islam — rather than relying on a discourse that has not changed for 800 years.”
The “800 year” reference was to the year 1258 — allegedly when highly qualified Islamic scholars of the day (“mujtahids”) declared, through “ijtihad” (independent reasoning), they had officially resolved all disputes about religious doctrine. Therefore, the “gates of ijtihad” were closed to future debate as no scholar could ever again qualify as a mujtahid…
……………………………….
Will anyone pay attention to the opinions of a non-scholar on this subject? I really doubt it…
And given that sixty-one percent of Egyptians have said in a Pew poll that they would prefer to follow Shari’ah as practiced in Saudi Arabia, I’d say that Al-Sisi has his work cut out for him.
Goodness knows I wish him well—I’m just not sure that many Muslims actually will…
LemonLime says
Read the mass of information about al-Sisi I posted, courtesy of Andrew Bostom, apparently the only Counter-Jihad blogger to be alerting us with the pertinently alarming data about him .
gravenimage says
LemonLime wrote:
Read the mass of information about al-Sisi I posted, courtesy of Andrew Bostom, apparently the only Counter-Jihad blogger to be alerting us with the pertinently alarming data about him .
…………………………
Actually, you’re quite right, LemonLime—I was speaking more generally about supposed Muslim “reformers” of any kind.
But Al-Sisi himself is a troubling figure, as Andrew Bostom rightly points out.
Note that he vaguely refers to a “modern, comprehensive understanding of the religion of Islam”, without ever saying quite what that would mean. It is only hopeful Infidels who assume that that would mean turning Islam into something compatible with Jeffersonian democracy.
You cite his 2006 “Democracy in the Middle East” with good reason. He hems and haws quite a bit as to what this would mean, as well, while making it clear that “Middle Eastern democracy” would look nothing like that of the United States and the rest of the West.
At one point—tellingly—he refers to Hamas as a “democracy”—without noting that it is a genocidal one that even homicidally targeted their own Muslim enemies in Fatah.
He also emphasizes the importance of Islam, without ever quite characterizing what part it would play in such “democracies”—and even noting that it is suspicious of democracy to begin with.
The one thing Al-Sisi *was* sure about? That through this “process”—wherever it might lead—that “Western democracies will need to be supportive, providing economic, educational, and technological support”—in other words, ‘keep the Jizya and armaments flowing, filthy Kuffar’.
Joe Dokes says
Oh, please.
1) This makes Sisi look like an American stooge reading a script. Which is probably true.
2) Why should we care? Let them stay backwards.
3) Let’s not forget that the conflict between Protestants and Catholics was long and bloody. Wars, torture, massacres…Look it up.
fair_dinkum says
a nice thought, a “modern concept of islam” good luck. but..
if it becomes fact at some stage, and it won’t be soon, maybe someone will remember him and these words/ideas (well its not an original idea really).
but seriously, what is he trying to achieve? testing the water for the right response before another coup? lets hope hes a dictator that modernised Egypt’s outlook.
and i have presumed that “modernised” means freedom for women and minorities, protection of all as equal. abolition of barbaric punishment, etc etc.
but the ONLY modernisation ive seen of islam, is in weaponry and explosives.
using cell phones etc. and the internet to display these horrors.
EYESOPEN says
Sad but true, fair dinkum.
Salah says
Sisi, like many Muslims, is a decent person who wants to live in peace. He just happened to be a Muslim. He’s not playing “taqiyya”, he is sincerely trying to reform Islam. Of course, most of us know that Islam cannot be reformed. Nevertheless, if he succeeds in doing so the world will be a much safer place to live. If not, he will be assassinated.
In a couple of days Sisi will be promoted to the highest egyptian military rank of Field Marshal, then he will resign and run for office. In a couple of months, if he’s still alive, he will be the president of Egypt. I have no doubt about that.
We need to pray for him and wish him luck. Under his rule Egypt will be a safer place especially for the Coptic Christians.
LemonLime says
How can Salah be so naive about al-Sisi?
Read this before you make unfounded claims:
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2013/08/03/make-public-egyptian-general-abdel-fattah-al-sisis-classified-2006-u-s-army-war-college-thesis/
Salah says
I’ve alredy read it and I’ve already answered it: This was a long, long time age. People do sometimes change.
Defcon 4 says
But islam doesn’t for it is the immutable word of a Jew hating, xenophobic, god of death. Or didn’t you get the memo?
Salah says
I should also add that, not only Sisi has changed, but the whole Egyptian muslim people has also changed. After only one year under the Muslim Brotherhood rule EVERY SINGLE EGYPTIAN has changed…including AL-AZHAR!!!
gravenimage says
Salah wrote:
I should also add that, not only Sisi has changed, but the whole Egyptian muslim people has also changed. After only one year under the Muslim Brotherhood rule EVERY SINGLE EGYPTIAN has changed…including AL-AZHAR!!!
…………………………………
“Every single Egyptian”—really, Salah?
What about the Egyptian Muslims responsible for *these* stories?
“Egypt: Muslims attack Church of the Virgin Mary in Cairo, murder a police officer”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/01/egypt-muslims-attack-church-of-the-virgin-mary-in-cairo-murder-a-police-officer/
“Egypt: Christians murdered for refusing to pay the jizya”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/01/egypt-christians-murdered-for-refusing-to-pay-the-jizya/
“Egypt: Islamic jihadists target Egyptian police with bombs and gunfire, murder five, wound 70”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/01/egypt-islamic-jihadists-murder-five-wound-90-with-three-bombs-one-at-cairo-police-headquarters/
These are stories from just the last few days, and I’m afraid they certainly don’t seem to indicate any sort of universal change…
Salah says
Gravenimage, I can’t even image you don’t know who these thugs really are. The MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD remnants!
They are not considered Egyptians anymore. Egyptians are those who approved the new constitution with a record of 98% YES against less than 2% NO. Egyptians are fed up with these criminals. Problem is, they will have to endure them for a while.
The Muslim Brotherhood thugs are simply ANTI-EGYPT.
Cliff Willard says
I agree wholeheartedly with Salah. Egypt needs someone to run the country –a “strong man” and Sisi fills the bill. Let’s see how he goes — before criticizing him and let’s all wish him well.
LemonLime says
I agree that Egypt — and all Muslim countries — need a Strong Man who is more, rather than less, likely to be in accord with a geopolitics approximately allied with our interests (which for any Muslim regime — even the most “secular” (e.g., Morocco, Tunisia, the Shah’s Iran, Ataturk’s Turkey, the Indonesia of Sukarno and Suharto, etc.) includes regularly rounding up, arresting and torturing jihadists, as well as occasionally deporting them). We had that already, with Mubarak. Al-Sisi, as Andrew Bostom has shown, is alarmingly unlike Mubarak. We need to put in our own puppet who will do our bidding, not support an Islamic jihadist who successfully (to gullibly naive Westerners) pretends to be Moderate, like Al-Sisi.
To be informed before one spouts unfounded claims, one would read the following:
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2013/08/03/make-public-egyptian-general-abdel-fattah-al-sisis-classified-2006-u-s-army-war-college-thesis/
nodrog says
I cannot see how it is possible to reform Islam and still have Islam. It would require a new Mr. Perfect with a new Koran without all the hideous parts.
joed says
As far as I can determine, islam has been undergoing a reformation for forty or so years already – returning to the original, fundamental teachings and texts on which it is based.
We know what that entails.
nodrog says
I can’t see how it would be possible to reform Islam while retaining Islam. It would need a new Mr. Perfect with a new Koran which doesn’t contain all of the horrible parts. And that would be impossible!! It would mean that Allah had it all wrong to begin with, and that would imply that Allah really doesn’t exist. The Koran we have is the only possible Koran. Let “reform” take place, by all means. It should logically lead to the complete demise of Islam.
JIMJFOX says
I WISH he had not said this; he might have quietly planned his strategy and implemented it slowly. Now he has signed his own death warrant long in anticipation of his elevation to national leadership, which he may not now achieve. Tragic.
Theo Prinse says
In the Netherlands we have protestant pastor Klaas Hendrikse
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaas_Hendrikse
I share his view that the super being god cannot be perceived is a being.
Hendrikse says that the word god is what can happen between people.
Religion in truth is only about the morality of life and death. What is justifiable and what is murder.
These moral findings are described in the criminal code through the process of democratic but secret ballot inwhich everyone can express their natural right to have a moral opinion. (judge Napolitano)
However as with the false perception of the word god falsely projected into some invisible authority or supreme being instead of a personal inalienable
indivisible (right to have a) moral opinion … Christian intellectuals from the first century have tried to falsify, monopolize and replacing the Jewish Tenach calling it the old testament (aspect of Supersessionism).
Islam from the above western moral philosophical view basically is their special Arab form of supersessionism. Merely a Muslim attempt to replace the aspiration of western mankind for republican government by a Islamic theocratic dictatorship.
Instead of being a moral religion Islam in reality is a military murderous doctrine disguised as an Abrahamite religion.
George Parker says
If memory serves, the reformation for christians only involved the protestant breakaway sects. Modernisation of the original roman church only happened afterwards and slowly.
If islam is to “reform,” modernise or even civilised is a better term. It will start with someone in authority saying exactly what Sisi has said.
Defcon 4 says
Saying you want to reform islam and doing it are two different things.
I find it laughable that anyone can give any credence to such a concept,
the whole idea is as ludicrous as reforming nazism. Maybe magical unicorns
and djinns will fly down and assist Sisi, that is, if he’s not merely lying as
muslime leaders are particularly prone to do.
Zaynab bint al Harith says
The founder of this faith was corrupted by Satan.
The Satanic verses debacle demonstrates this.
The verses of the sword and the principle of abrogation are from Hell.
Let the ummah arrange their book chronologically.
Let the world see the hideous descent of the man.
His story is a cautionary tale.
It ends with either the redemption or the destruction of his followers.
Theo Prinse says
In the Netherlands we have protestant pastor Klaas Hendrikse
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaas_Hendrikse
I share his view that the super being god cannot be perceived as a being.
Hendrikse says that the word god is what can happen between people.
Religion in truth is only about the morality of life and death. What is justifiable and what is murder.
These moral findings are described in the criminal code through the process of democratic but secret ballot inwhich everyone can express their natural right to have a moral opinion. (judge Napolitano)
However as with the false perception of the word god falsely projected into some invisible authority or supreme being instead of a personal inalienable
indivisible (right to have a) moral opinion … Christian intellectuals from the first century have tried to falsify, monopolize and replacing the Jewish Tenach calling it the old testament (aspect of Supersessionism).
Islam from the above western moral philosophical view basically is their special Arab form of supersessionism. Merely a Muslim attempt to replace the aspiration of western mankind for republican government by a Islamic theocratic dictatorship.
Instead of being a moral religion Islam in reality is a military murderous doctrine disguised as an Abrahamite religion.
duh_swami says
How can you reform perfection? What Mahoundian is going to stand before Allah on judgement day, and say, ‘ I didn’t like parts of your religion so I reformed it’. I decided to ignore or change some of your verses…I hope you don’t mind’…
Theo Prinse says
In the Netherlands we have protestant pastor Klaas Hendrikse
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klaas_Hendrikse
I share his view that the super being god cannot be perceived as a being.
Hendrikse says that the word god is what can happen between people.
Religion in truth is only about the morality of life and death. What is justifiable and what is murder.
These moral findings are described in the criminal code through the process of democratic but secret ballot in which everyone can express their natural right to have a moral opinion. (judge Napolitano)
However as with the false perception of the word god falsely projected into some invisible authority or supreme being instead of a personal inalienable
indivisible (right to have a) moral opinion … Christian intellectuals from the first century have tried to falsify, monopolize and replacing the Jewish Tenach calling it the old testament (aspect of Supersessionism).
Islam from the above western moral philosophical view basically is their special Arab form of supersessionism. Merely a Muslim attempt to replace the aspiration of western mankind for republican government by a Islamic theocratic dictatorship.
Instead of being a moral religion Islam in reality is a military murderous doctrine disguised as an Abrahamite religion
SM ISAC says
General Sisi seems like the right leader for Egypt, with love (not lust for power) and vision for his country which explains the groundswell of popular support. He seems to also clearly see what’s holding the country and the entire region back and shows true courage in articulating the urgent need to reform Islam if it were to survive as a legitimate religion.
LemonLime says
Inform yourself with the data, before you spout unfounded claims and gush with feelings:
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2013/08/03/make-public-egyptian-general-abdel-fattah-al-sisis-classified-2006-u-s-army-war-college-thesis/
LemonLime says
Also see:
http://pjmedia.com/blog/egyptian-army-general-wrote-radical-thesis-while-attending-u-s-army-war-college/
Defcon 4 says
So Sisi was lying, why am I not surprised?
awake says
Islam cannot be reformed. To do so would strip the Qur’an of its supposed divinity as proclaimed by Muslims, essentially destroying Islam.
Any adequate meaningful reform would preclude the foundational theme in Islam, eternal warfare against all things and persons non-Islamic for all time, with the results of such a reform rendering Islam an empty shell of itself, again, essentially destroyed.
Defcon 4 says
There was a rabbi speaking on the Glenn Beck show who asked Penn, of Penn and Teller fame, if the world would be a better place if muslims were to convert to evangelical Christianity. Penn, hemmed and hawed a great deal, but finally agreed.
Imagine a world without islam. For the najjis kaffir enduring the persecution of living in any muslim state, it would be the dawn of a whole new day.
Theo Prinse says
In the Netherlands we have protestant pastor Klaas Hendrikse from Middelburg.
I share his view that the super being god cannot be perceived as a being.
Hendrikse says that the word god is what can happen between people.
Religion in truth is only about the morality of life and death. What is justifiable and what is murder.
These moral findings are described in the criminal code through the process of democratic but secret ballot in which everyone can express their natural right to have a moral opinion. (judge Napolitano)
However as with the false perception of the word god falsely projected into some invisible authority or supreme being instead of a personal inalienable
indivisible (right to have a) moral opinion … Christian intellectuals from the first century have tried to falsify, monopolize and replacing the Jewish Tenach calling it the old testament (aspect of Supersessionism).
Islam from the above western moral philosophical view basically is their special Arab form of supersessionism. Merely a Muslim attempt to replace the aspiration of western mankind for republican government by a Islamic theocratic dictatorship.
Instead of being a moral religion Islam in reality is a military murderous doctrine disguised as an Abrahamite religion
Theo Prinse says
my apology for the extra posting. It is caused by a link that I included but then the comment does not appear and I only realised it was caused by the link after I posted the comment for the third time
Wellington says
Interesting thread. Just a few comments if I might. First of all, I would just like to put in a plug for the Roman Empire. As empires go, it was not bad at all. Roman law was an enlightened legal system and still remains in force in many countries to this day under such names as the Napoleonic Code or Civil Law. Roman cultural achievements are many and Latin literature still forms one of the great literatures of the world. Roman governance itself brought peace and security to sundry areas which had not known virtually any peace and security till Rome took over. It was a great honor to become a Roman citizen, as exampled by St. Paul (of course by the time Caracalla gave Roman citizenship to everyone in 212 A.D. it had become a burden but that is another story). And remember, a portion of the Jewish people actually welcomed Pompey’s conquest of Palestine in 63 B.C. because of revulsion towards the Maccabaean dynasty. Unfortunately, two great people, the Romans and Jews, never came to understand each other and thus antagonisms of all kinds persisted for centuries, though individual friendships between Romans and Jews were many. I don’t mean to gloss over Rome’s wrongs, which were numerous, but no people have ever been devoid of wrongdoing and, on balance, I would say Rome produced a first-rate civilization.
Second, any violence sanctioned in the Old Testament for Jews to conquer the Promised Land (not to be confused with New Jersey) was for a time long ago, not for all time and, what is perhaps even more important, it was for the sequestration of a very small area of the earth, some 20,000 square miles at most, and not a call to conquer all the earth in the name of Judaism. Huge differences here between Islam and Judaism.
Finally, I personally am convinced of the capacity of religions like Christianity and Judaism to reform, principally because their respective theological blueprint is not menacing and certainly not possessed of any instruction, contra Islam, to make war upon unbelievers. A reformation of Islam, as indeed even some Muslims wish, is not going to happen because the core doctrines of Islam are rooted in ideas of conquest, submission and contempt for those who do not accept what Mohammed taught. You’d have to gut Islam like a fish to reform it and then there would be precious little left. In short, unlike other faiths, Islam started out rotten and you can’t reform rot.
Defcon 4 says
The Roman Empire featured gladiatorial combat, in which people fought to the death, not for ideals, not for self-defense, but for entertainment.
GWhizz says
The world needs a new religion based on the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of men(and women). See the Urantia Book. It claims to be written by Angels. Check it out. I have been reading it for 30 years.
Robert says
I would actually look at this with guarded optimism. Yes, many, many putative Muslim “reformers” are actually taqiyya technicians like Reza Aslan and Tariq Ramadan, but by no means are all of them(Irshad Manji, Tarek Fateh). The problem for the real reformers, of course, is that there is so little scriptural basis for such a reform, so their efforts tend to get quickly drowned out. A genuine Muslim reformer with actual stature and gravitas is desperately what the world needs.
Defcon 4 says
Islam has had a millennium to reform, why should I believe they’re going to now?
Why should I believe anyone whose very faith inveighs him to lie?
To even suggest, publicly, that Islam needs to be reformed in any islamic state will get you arrested or dead. Sadat was murdered for making peace w/Israel, he never questioned the tenets of islam. I wouldn’t be suprised to see the same thing happen to Sisi.
Wellington says
With deep respect, Mr. Spencer, you who has done so much to alert the free world to the many intrinsic perils to liberty which the Islamic theological blueprint poses, nonetheless seemingly still clings to the hope that so-called moderate Muslims, including one or more with a considerable amount of stature and gravitas (per your own statement), can reform Islam, but if Islam is the totalitarian creed that both Bertrand Russell, a man of the Left, and Winston Churchill, a man of the Right, thought it to be, how then can it, or any totalitarian ideology for that matter, be reformed? Pray tell.
For myself, I see no way that Islam can be reformed. It can only be discarded, like Marxism and Nazism, and none too soon I would add.
Sorry for the Dickensian length of the first sentence. I couldn’t help myself, in part because I’m a great admirer of Dickens, though I regret deeply in this sound-bite age we live in that such a master of English prose is increasingly read less and less, but then, in general, the best of Western Civilization is being ignored, to the detriment of all mankind I would argue. Meanwhile, the worst among us (read the Islamic world here first and foremost), are licking their chops, all of which demostrates just how fragile civilization, real civilization and not the faux kind that “merely” produces things like great art from time to time, really is.
LemonLime says
Wellington, I don’t think that “Robert” was Spencer. While I have been dismayed to see signs of asymptoticism in Spencer over the years, I don’t believe he’s so asymptotic that he would readily promote Irshad Manji as at all viable.
Champ says
“For myself, I see no way that Islam can be reformed. It can only be discarded, like Marxism and Nazism, and none too soon I would add.”
I concur, Wellington.
Defcon 4 says
WRT the whole concept of reforming islam and the effusive praise for Sisi’s empty words, I’d quote PT Barnum: “There’s a sucker born every minute”
Jay Boo says
Islam is peace?
It might be possible to reform Islam into a new kinder gentler religion.
The only problem is that it would be necessary to first
remove everything Islamic about Islam.
Of course the name would have to change.
Imagine if the name Islam became its opposite ‘Peace’
LemonLime says
The most important information about al-Sisi has come from Andrew Bostom, who fought for, and finally succeeded in, having al-Sisi’s military school’s thesis (from an American military academy, of course — Carlisle Barracks, PA, U.S. Army War College) released to Bostom through the Freedom of Information Act (hm, I wonder why the U.S. government was so leery of having anyone read it…?):
…Sunday July, 28, 2013, Foreign Affairs published an alarming analysis of the ideology, and political ambitions of General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, the man who orchestrated Egypt’s military putsch, which deposed President Muhammad Morsi.
Written by Robert Springborg, a professor at the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California, long recognized for his published expertise on the Egyptian military, the essay highlighted al-Sisi’s previously unrecognized (or dismissed) near term political aspirations—such as running for Egyptian President (also suggested here, here)—and of equal significance, his political ideology.
During various interviews he granted in the immediate aftermath of Morsi’s overthrow (see here, here, here, and my own earlier blog), Springborg had forthrightly summarized al-Sisi’s core Weltanschauung as being essentially identical to that of the sacked Egyptian President, and Muslim Brotherhood ideologue, Morsi.
<i>Now, Springborg’s 7/28/13 Foreign Affairs essay has provided irrefragable, hard evidence of the General’s, and potential Egyptian Presidential candidate’s, Sharia supremacist ideology: al-Sisi’s own written words, recorded in his 2006 U.S. Army War College mini-thesis.
,,,
Now publicly revealed, in full, al-Sisi’s expressed ideology—in both his 2006 mini-thesis, as well as its “leavening” by the recent comments he made to the Washington Post—must be featured prominently in the debate on military, and all other forms of aid to Egypt. Moreover, the fulfillment of his Islamic, Sharia-based vision—which will surely result in the ongoing abrogation of fundamental Western freedoms of conscience and speech, and continued legal discrimination against non-Muslims and women, that have plagued modern Egypt for two centuries, now—also merits serious consideration.
Al-Sisi’s little thesis is here:
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/Al_Sisi_JW-FOIA.pdf
and his Washington Post commentary is here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/washington-post-interviews-egyptian-gen-abdel-fatah-al-gen-sissi/2013/08/03/6409e0a2-fbc0-11e2-a369-d1954abcb7e3_story.html
See Bostom’s article which veritably teems and bristles with pertinently evidentiary links
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2013/08/03/make-public-egyptian-general-abdel-fattah-al-sisis-classified-2006-u-s-army-war-college-thesis/
P.S.: It took me 20 minutes to amass and type out this most useful comment, for which I am paid nothing (not to mention more often than not sneered at generally).
N.T. Riisgaard, DK says
Uplifting news from Egypt which harbours the chief center of Islamic learning, Al Azhar University. Thrilling to think of coming fatwas to be issued by its scolars, the ulamas. Are their chickens coming home to roost!
N.T. Riisgaard, DK says
Thrilling news from Egypt, the land of Al Azhar University, the chief center of Islamic learning. Its scolars, the ulemas, must issue an interesting fatwa now! Question: Have the chickens come home to roost?
Foolster says
(For some reason it looks like I can’t reply to posts that are replies to replies)
@Dennis Trisker: My apologizes for the spelling error, but I stand behind my post. Whether or not Jews were violent at that time does not follow to “Judaism is violent”.
gravenimage says
I can’t reply directly to Salah beneath his post, so I will do so here:
Salah wrote:
Gravenimage, I can’t even image you don’t know who these thugs really are. The MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD remnants!
They are not considered Egyptians anymore.
……………………….
Well, that’s convenient. I’m sure all those Christians and police officers and other victims will be relieved to know that their murderers weren’t ‘real Egyptians”.
Salah says
“I’m sure all those Christians and police officers and other victims will be relieved to know that their murderers weren’t ‘real Egyptians”.
Relieved? of course not. But hey, this is a war, a war between Christians, police officers, army, you name it… and the MB thugs. The whole egyptian population is at war with the MB. This is the only country that is seriously fighting islamic terrorists. They need our prayers and our support. The MB is an international organization, it is very powerful, it is backed by Obama, Turkey, Qatar, Iran, Hamas etc. They are well equipped, well organized, and they fight really dirty. The good news: they represent a mere 1 or 2% of the egyptian population. They will never ever rule Egypt again and they know it.
Egypt has won.
Foolster says
“The whole egyptian population is at war with the MB. ”
So, what you’re saying is, the MB are the only devout Muslims (i.e. not actually apostates) in Egypt, all the others are secularists?
“The good news: they represent a mere 1 or 2% of the Egyptian population. They will never ever rule Egypt again and they know it.”
I see, Egypt was only hijacked by a minority of extremists! Never is a long time, and there’s no indication that even if they never do rule that someone just as bad won’t come to power.
voegelinian says
LemonLime here.
When we see one group of Muslims attacking another group of Muslims, we should not have a reflex spasm automatically assuming the Muslims being attacked are Moderates, as Salah is doing here. Salah’s naivete is all the more disquieting given that he or she hails from that region, and should know even more vividly than we in the West do how irremediable Muslims are. I suspect some trace amounts of dhimmi conditioning is afoot here.