Islamic law forbids Christians to build new churches or repair old ones, so that their communities will be in a perpetual state of decline and the hegemony of Islam assured. That is what is behind this action in Indonesia and others like it, and is why “the process for building a church in Indonesia – Catholic or Protestant – is quite complicated and may take five to ten years to obtain all permits required by law.”
As part of that process, “permission must be obtained from a number of residents in the area where the building is to be constructed and the local Group for Interfaith Dialogue.” It’s a bitter irony that the Interfaith Dialogue on which Western Christian leaders have placed so much hope and in which they have invested so much time and money is used in Indonesia to deny Christians equal rights.
“South Sumatra, hundreds of Islamists block the construction of a Protestant church,” by Mathias Hariyadi for Asia News, February 21 (thanks to C. Cantoni):
Jakarta (AsiaNews) – Late yesterday afternoon, hundreds of armed men, led by local Muslim leaders, stormed and forcibly occupied a plot of land owned by the Indonesian Christian community Huria Kristen Batak Protestan (HKBP). The incident occurred in the village of Talang Kelapa , located in the sub-district of Alang -alang Lebar in the regency of Palembang, South Sumatra province. The raid was motivated by an attempt to build a place of worship. In fact, on February 17 the ceremony of laying the first stone was held, amid protests from local residents. A decision that has created discontent among Muslims, who organized a task force to occupy the land – two acres in all – and to send a strong message to HKBP leaders: churches are not allowed in the area.
The process for building a church in Indonesia – Catholic or Protestant – is quite complicated and may take five to ten years to obtain all permits required by law. The procedure is governed by the Izin Mendirikan Bangunan (IMB), a species of written protocol that allows for construction to commence and is issued by local authorities. The story gets more complicated if it is a place of Christian worship: permission must be obtained from a number of residents in the area where the building is to be constructed and the local Group for Interfaith Dialogue. And even if the permission is granted “unspecified reasons” can come into play that will lead officials to block the projects. Often, this occurs after pressure from the Muslim community or radical Islamic movements.
Since 2011, the Christian community has initiated procedures to obtain the necessary permits, without any concrete results. Moreover, the lack IMB provides a legal foothold to the Muslim majority, who can enforce breaches and irregularities in the procedures to stop the building and forcibly occupy land. Junaidi Alhafidz, a local Muslim leader who headed the mob in fact declared the raid was motivated by “the Hkbp’s lack of IMB permit” reflecting the fact that “the authorities in Palembang have not yet authorized the building”. He also reiterated opposition “to the construction of a church”.
The Islamic leader points to the fact that the signatures of 60 residents of the area are missing, as well as the minimal number of faithful (90) necessary to get the go- ahead for the construction of the building. This is confirmed by the head of sub-district Sulaiman Amien, who states that the local Protestant community “has not yet received the permits”. The Ministry for Religious Affairs of Palembang has also weighed in ordering the HKBP to “halt” the project until all legal procedures are completed.
Indonesia, the world’s most populous Muslim nation, has seen a rise in the number of attacks or acts of intolerance against minorities, including Christians, Ahmadi Muslims and others. In the province of Aceh – the only in the Archipelago to apply Islamic law ( Sharia ) – following a peace agreement between the central government and the Free Aceh Movement ( GAM ) , the application of a radical form of Islam among citizens is becoming more extreme. In addition, certain rules such as the building permit – the infamous IMB – are exploited to prevent the building or close down places of worship, as was the case in West Java against Yasmin Church. The constitution provides for freedom of religion, but the community is the victim of incidents of violence and abuse. Local sources report that in December alone , at least five Christian places of worship have had to close their doors due to pressure from Islamists.
boakai ngombu says
so, the bigots down at the mosque see fit to eliminate the presence of a building, so as to eliminate right knowledge.
the supremacist bigots down at the mosque see fit to eliminate any inquiry, tolerate any semblance of freedom of conscience.
the supremacist bigots down at the mosque see fit to continue their centuries old war against anything that speaks variance to the will of the Allah god (unknowable; the bet of all deceivers) and its spokesman, Muhammad (lately contrived; full of lust – the best example of fallen man), marching across continents to corrupt, pillage, destroy, so that the delicate sensibilities of the bigoted boys down at the mosque won’t be disturbed.
equivalence … NOT; worthy of praise … NOT
john spielman says
islam is the refuge of the demonic. Because Allah is NOT GOD, Isalm is a lie and darkness. Liars cannot stand the truth or stand the presence of the light (of Christ).
boakai ngombu says
@ john spielman
i agree. the Allah god (unknowable; the best of all deceivers) has the influence to cause the adherent to “believe” that what is DOWN is actually UP. in this the Allah god is FALSE, unable to save, causing people to think DARKNESS is more powerful than LIGHT (the Son).
… the aforementioned power is not unlike POTUS purporting that COLD is HOT while having a threatening way to cause many to say YUP
Jay Boo says
The Islam apologists speak so casually about Indonesia as an Islamic democracy.
They act as if Christians and other religious minorities are irrelevant.
Democracy is supposed to be inclusive not a theocratic farce.
dumbledoresarmy says
And we Aussies, and the civilised non-Muslim city-state of Singapore, and the Catholic Filipinos (who are beset by full-on military jihad from within, waged by the Ummah Fifth Columnists of Mindanao), and the struggling little non-Muslim majority-Christian state of Papua-New Guinea, and the recently-released-from-Indonesian-Muslim rule East Timor, have *these people* – this massive dominated-by-Islam and steadily-going-sharia majority-Muslim entity – as our next-door neighbours.
*Not* pleasant.
Mazo says
@dumbledoresarmy
Excuse me, but judging from your sweeping remarks, you have no idea about the political situation in southeast asia and are ignorantly chalking it up to “Muslim” vs “non-Muslim”.
The situation is two oppresive governments, Indonesia and the Philippines, waging war against both Christian and Muslim separatist minorities.
In Indonesia, the separatism is based on ethnic lines. Both Muslim, Christians, and pagan minorities in Indonesia allied together to fight the Javanese dominated Indonesian government.
During colonial times, the Dutch ensured Javanese supremacy over all other ethnic groups and moved ethnic Muslim Javanese and Muslim Madurese settlers to Borneo, Papua, and other places. This not only pissed off the pagan Papuans, the Acehnese Muslims in Sumatra and the Malay Muslims in Borneo were equally pissed off at the Dutch dumping Javanese and Madurese Muslims in their land.
The four main separatists movements in Indonesia were the Muslim Free Aceh Movement led by Hasan Di Tiro, the Christian South Molucca separatists, the pagan/Christian Free Papua Movement led by Jacob Prai, and the East Timor separatists. They allies together and with the Moro separatists in the Philippines.
One of the East Timorese FRETILIN separatist leaders was an Arab Muslim, Mari Alkatiri, who became the First Prime Minister of East Timor. He led the struggle against Indonesian rule and was close to China, which was why you Australians didn’t like him. He moved East Timor close to China’s orbit.
Muammar Gaddafi, the Libyan strongman, supported all of the separatists in Indonesia and the Philippines under the Mathaba network. Hasan Di Tiro, the Achenese separatist leader, took control of Mathaba with Gaddafi’s support.
The Muslim Acehnese separatists under Hasan Di Tiro openly announced their support to the Chrisian and pagan West Papuan, Maluccan, and East Timorese separatists, saying that all minorities in Indonesia should be liberated from Javanese domination. Under Mathaba, the Libyans and Muslim Acehnese, trained and armed the Christian and pagan West Papaun fighters, the East Timorese FRETILIN fighters, and the Moro Muslim separatists in the Philippines.
As a result, Indonesia and the Philippines supported each other in cracking down on each other’s separatists. The Moro separatists were furious at Indonesia for siding with the Philippines, Indonesia helping the Philippines try to enter the OIC, and blocking Moro independence.
In Indonesia itself, after the anti-Chinese riots in Java, later in 1999, there were little publicized mass riots going on in Borneo. It involved Malay Muslims allying with Dayak animists, against Madurese Muslims.
The Dutch colonialists and the Javanese dominated Indonesian government had been moving Madurese Muslim colonists onto Dayak and Malay land in Borneo. The Malays had good relations with the local non-Muslim Chinese and Dayaks, but they hated and despised the Madurese, despite sharing the same religion. As a result, the Malays and Dayaks carried out mass murders and rapes against the Madurese, with the Indonesian government not lifting a finger to stop the violence.
If you study Philippines and Indonesian history, you would find that the evidence is on the side of the separatists, both the Muslims and the pagan/Christians. The Spanish and Dutch colonialists initiated the wars against the Moros and others.
The Moros practiced a form of Islam mixed with animism and Hindu-Buddhist influences, since they were converted peacefully by preachers. They never practiced full Sharia.
Look particularly at the Chinese minority community in the Philippines. The Chinese were pagans. The Spanish actively persecuted the Chinese minority for being non-Catholic, forcing them to live in the parang ghetto in Manila, levying higher taxes on them, and periodically massacring and expelling them.
By contrast, the Moro Sultans allowed the Chinese community to build temples in their capital, and form massive trading communities with no Jizya, ghetto, or persecution. Sometimes Chinese men even married Moros without converting to Islam since their practice of Islam was very lax.
Chinese pagans sided with the Moros in battle against the Spanish. In the 18th century, several thousand Chinese expelled from Manila joined the Moro armies to fight, and in the 19th century, Chinese traders were actively involved in shipping guns to the Moros to fight the Spanish.
The Moros also resisted and fought the Japanese in World War 2. The Japanese faced particularly fierce resistance from the Moros, while in Indonesia, the Javanese collaborated and sided with Japan.
The Philippine government and Indonesian government both engaged in demographic flooding, the Philippines sent millions of Filipino Christian colonists from Visayas and Luzon to colonize Moro land on Mindanao, the Indonesian government also sent millions of Javanese and Madurese to colonized Papuan, Moluccan, Dayak, Malay, Acehnese, and Timorese land.
The Flipino colonists engaged in brutal atrocities under the ilaga militia. These Filipinos mixed Catholicism with brutal animist practicies. Some Filipino Ilaga Militiamen killed an Italian Catholic priest and ate his brains in a ceremony.
In Indonesia, the Muslim Acehnese collaborated with pagan and Christians to fight the Muslim Javanese dominated government, thats because the fight isn’t about religion, its about ethnicity.
Please approach history with an open mind, and not with any bias towards on religion or another. I’m not making any comments on Islam or Christianity themselves (in fact I noted that Moros were lax Muslims, they didn’t levy Jizya on Chinese like they are required to in Islam, same with the Filipino cannibals who ate the Italian Priest, they weren’t true Catholics), just don’t apply the lens of religion to history because it is not what it seems.
God bless the East Timorese, West Papuans, Moros, Acehnese, south Moluccans, Chinese, and even the Indonesian Javanese and Filipino oppresors, we should hope and pray that the suffering and violence comes to an end and that all the minorities will have their full rights and autonomy.
gravenimage says
Mazo wrote, replying to Dumbledore’s Army:
Excuse me, but judging from your sweeping remarks, you have no idea about the political situation in southeast asia and are ignorantly chalking it up to “Muslim” vs “non-Muslim”…
……………………………
Mazo has tried this same obfuscating moral equivalence before on another thread, also in reply to Dumbledore’s Army. Among the absurdities, he claimed that Robert Spencer was “in sync” with the barbaric Saudis.
Notice that Mazo doesn’t even address the issue in the story: that of pious Muslims blocking the building or repair of Christian churches—or indeed of any non-Muslim place of worship.
This has *nothing* to do with the intricacies of the political situation in south-east Asia, and *everything* to do with supremacist Muslim Shari’ah norms.
This same thing has happened in Pakistan, Egypt, Syria, Nigeria, and many other parts of Dar-al-Islam that are not geographically part of south-east Asia, but are *very much* part of the Muslim world.
And Dumbledore’s Army is *very* knowledgeable about history—enough to see the pattern of Islamic domination.
More:
In Indonesia, the Muslim Acehnese collaborated with pagan and Christians to fight the Muslim Javanese dominated government, thats because the fight isn’t about religion, its about ethnicity.
……………………………
Mazo doesn’t tell you what the Muslim Acehnese have done with their increased autonomy: they have imposed Shari’ah law. They now have *stoning* on the books.
Pious Muslims will superficially “ally” with Infidels from time to time if they believe they can use them to attain their ends—the idea that this means that their goals somehow have nothing to do with Islam is absolute rot.
More:
Please approach history with an open mind, and not with any bias towards on religion or another…
God bless the East Timorese, West Papuans, Moros, Acehnese, south Moluccans, Chinese, and even the Indonesian Javanese and Filipino oppresors, we should hope and pray that the suffering and violence comes to an end and that all the minorities will have their full rights and autonomy.
……………………………
More attempts at moral equivalence. Mazo pretends that all Jihadists want is their “full rights”—what he won’t tell you is that pious Muslims believe that nothing less than imposing oppressive Shari’ah law on all Infidels is what they consider their “full rights”.
Mazo says
Excuse me, but Dumbledoresarmy was the one who mentioned East Timor, Papua, and the Philippines when they have nothing to do with the article, so I addressed the claims he made about those places. If he can go off topic, why can’t I respond to it?
And you totally ignore massive parts of my posts where I posted information too straitforward for you to twist its meaning.
I mentioned Malay Muslims in Indonesian Borneo (although ethnically related to Malay Muslims in Malaysia, they have very different views). They are not separatist nor are they agitating for Sharia, and they absolutely despise Madurese Muslims, yet they get along perfectly well with non-Muslim Chinese and non-Muslim Dayaks.
The Malays and Dayaks ganged together in 1999 to *rape and massacre thousands of Madurese Muslims, destroy their mosques, and drive them out of Borneo. The Chinese passively observed the Malay and Dayak butchery, not joining in themselves. The Indonesian government meanwhile turned a blind eye, Dayaks had attacked police stations and prevented them from interfering.
The reason was that the Dutch colonialists, and later the Javanese dominated government in Indonesia, moved these Madurese settlers onto Malay and Dayak land, and trouble quickly built up.
Pious Muslims are absolutely forbidden to join with non-Muslims for the express purpose of slaughtering and raping other Muslims.
You also could not say anything about the fact that non-Muslim Chinese were persecuted by Catholic Spaniards, while these same Chinese allied with the Moro Muslims and were treated with respect by them.
And Libyan and Acehnese (and Chinese) support to the East Timorese freedom fighters paid off. They won their independence, and the Arab Muslim freedom fighter Mari Alkatiri became their first Prime Minister, building closer ties to China, which Australia didn’t like. Now China is expanding its military and economic footprint in East Timor which is upsetting Australia.
Now tell me, what would Achenese Muslims, and Libyan Arab Muslims, have gained from supporting pagan Papuan and Christian south Maluccan separatists? For the Achenese, it is their shared hatred of Javanese Muslim oppresion.
Indonesia was an ally of America and the west in the Cold War. America support Indonesia occupying West Papua and East Timor because they were anti communist. China and Libya supported East Timor against pro-western Indonesia.
Gaddafi was actually supporting separatist movements all over the world, almost any separatist movement in a pro-western country (like Indonesia) could go to Libya and get a massive pile of cash and arms. Thats why Gaddafi supported pagans and Christians against the Indonesian Javanese Muslims, and Gaddafi also support Catholic Basque ETA against Spain, Catholic IRA against Britain, Muslim Arab Western Saharans agaist Muslim Arab Moroccans, Gaddafi didn’t have any particular religion in mind, he was just “trolling” pro-western countries like Indonesia, Britain, Spain, the Philippines and Morocco.
Acehnese are free to demand whatever they want in their own territory. They never demanded for Sharia in other parts of Indonesia. They were traditionally very orthodox Muslims while other southeast asian Muslims like the Moros were historically not strict.
And it was the Dutch colonialists who caused the entire Indonesia to fall under Javanese domination, the Dutch conquered the Acehnese, Moluccans, Dayaks, Papuans, as a result they are part of Indonesia today.
voegelinian says
If any Christians in Indonesia are allied with Muslim
“separatists” it is out of approximately the same dhimmi instincts that have deformed Mazo’s heart and mind.
Mazo says
FYI, it was Malaysia that expelled Singapore from the Federation of Malaya, while the Singaporean leader Lee Kuan-yew wanted Singapore to remain in Malaysia. So much for your claims about Singapore being threatened by Muslim conquest.
Mazo says
East Timor also has a major dispute with Australia over the gas field and Australian spying on East Timor. Australia is just further pushing East Timor into China’s arms, Alkatiri was asking China for help against Australian claims to East Timorese gas, and the current East Timor government is doing the same and expanding ties with China, while their ties with Australia is rapidly deteriorating over the gas dispute and spying.
Who needs enemies when you got a “friendly neighbor’ trying to drill into your gas field even though your country is over 90% dependent on gas revenue.
Mazo says
You should be concerned more about your local criminal gangs (Dlasthr, one of the most prominent and brutal gangs of Middle Eastern origin in Australia, is not made out of Arab Muslims, but Assyrian Christians), than flinging mud at southeast asian Muslims. These gangsters once brazenly and brutally scalped and killed an Australian police officer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dlasthr
http://assyriangossip.com/?p=612
http://www.assyriatimes.com/assyrian/news/assyrians-divided-by-fear-after-shooting-death/3189
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/police-smash-organised-assyrian-crime-gang-dlsthr-with-series-of-raids-across-sydney/story-fni0cx12-1226724964200
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-bust-violent-crime-gang-dlast-hr-20130923-2u9dg.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVJB36Jiyw8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUNZGCxVEoA
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/photos-fni0cx12-1226725356647?page=1
There are good and bad people in every religion in race, are you one of those people constantly complaining about “Muslim”and other non-Christian immigrants crime (like asian Triads), and turn a massive blind eye to crime committed by Christians?
Defcon 4 says
I seem to remember Indonesiastan’s oldest synagogue (non-functioning I’m sure) burned down mysteriously recently (say, in the last 6 months). I wonder if any investigation was conducted by the all muslime police and fire departments to determine how the suspicious blaze happened?
Bacchus says
Muslims MUST believe everything in the koran including these quotes.
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. 2:191-2; Intermarriage is forbidden. 2:221; Don’t believe anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:73; We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151; Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89; The Koran says tha Satan is a deceiver. “and [they] deceived and Allah deceived and Allah is the best of deceivers” Sura 3:54 The Koran admits that Allah is the GREAT SATAN.
gravenimage says
Indonesia: Armed Muslim mob blocks construction of church
Islamic law forbids Christians to build new churches or repair old ones, so that their communities will be in a perpetual state of decline and the hegemony of Islam assured. That is what is behind this action in Indonesia and others like it…
…………………………..
Exactly. And even when Christians are able to get a permit issued in an Islamic country, there is always the threat of the Mohammed mob—as here—come to enforce Shari’ah itself. *Ugh*.
Defcon 4 says
I sometimes wonder if the two synagogues blown up on the same day in Turkey in the early 21st century were ever rebuilt. I know all the perpetrators have already been released — despite this act of islamic terrorism took the lives of 26 people. By comparison, in the USA, a KKK member who blew up a black church in the Deep South and killed two girls in the process in the 1960’s got life in prison
Semeru says
Mazo you are right about the Dayaks attacking the Madurese, but I have not seen any where that the Malays where involved, so could you give a link to the source.
That was interesting to know that Mari Alkathiri the Secretary-General of the Revolutionary Front for an Independent East Timor (FRETILIN), what makes it more interesting that the Indonesian invasion of East Timor was planned and lead by a Roman Catholic, four-star general, Leonardus Benyamin “Benny” Murdani, he also led the invasion of Papua.
And Truthbender counters Mazo with
Notice that Mazo doesn’t even address the issue in the story: that of pious Muslims blocking the building or repair of Christian churches—or indeed of any non-Muslim place of worship.
What about the rebuilding by christians and moslems of the 28 churches that w here destroyed in Situbondo 1996.
No mention of the thousands of churches that already exist
In 2008, a new building for the Reformed Evangelical Church in Jakarta called Reformed Millennium Center of Indonesia (RMCI), which includes The Messiah Cathedral (a 4800-seat auditorium) was finished. It took 16 years to persuade the Indonesian government to issue a permit to build the church
In a four-days evangelistic outreach in December 2012 Stephen Tong preached in the Messianic Cathedral in Jakarta to 30 000 attenders, in a Muslim majority country
No I won’t do to report about the constuction of churches here on Jihad Watch.
More from truth bender
Mazo doesn’t tell you what the Muslim Acehnese have done with their increased autonomy: they have imposed Shari’ah law. They now have *stoning* on the books.
Gravenimage omits the fact that the indonesian government fought a long civil war in an attempt to prevent the Acehnese from becoming an islamic state.
Mazo says
Malay Muslims helped non-Muslim Dayaks slaughter Madurese Muslims.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia-pacific/1186401.stm
http://books.google.com/books?id=OrdM8X7CBTAC&pg=PA299#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://www.culturalsurvival.org/ourpublications/csq/article/violence-indonesian-borneo-spurs-relocation-ethnic-madurese
http://indahnesia.com/indonesia/SAMPEO/people.php
http://books.google.com/books?id=EUDii8kvQYAC&pg=PA73#v=onepage&q&f=false
gravenimage says
Of course, it comes as no surprise that Semeru would warmly welcome another poster tossing around obfuscation and moral equivalence.
Semeru wrote:
And Truthbender (sic) counters Mazo with
[GI] Notice that Mazo doesn’t even address the issue in the story: that of pious Muslims blocking the building or repair of Christian churches—or indeed of any non-Muslim place of worship.
What about the rebuilding by christians and moslems of the 28 churches that w here destroyed in Situbondo 1996.
………………………………….
Semeru hopes to distract from the fact that Muslim destroyed *28 churches*.
Muslims went on a destructive rampage because *a Muslim* accused of Blasphemy received what they considered too light a sentence—he was sentenced to five years in prison rather than receiving the death penalty.
They also burned down an orphanage, Christian schools, Chinese merchant’s shops, and the courthouse.
At least one Christian victim was burned to death, one was badly burned, and several suffered severe injuries in jumping to escape the flames. In all, five people died.
All of this violence and destruction was carried out with the pious mob screaming “Long Live Islam!”.
http://www.fica.org/persecution/10Oct96/chronology.html
Fifty individuals were arrested, of whom five were eventually tried and sentenced to just one to five months in prison.
I have found reports that the churches were being rebuilt—I will take Semeru at his word that the all the churches actually were finally rebuilt.
*This* is the story Semeru offers as an example of Muslim moderation—*good God*.
Muslims do occasionally allow Christians and other Infidels to rebuild their destroyed places of worship—but it is *always* on the sufferance of this or that Muslim ruler, and not on the basis of Infidel rights.
More:
No mention of the thousands of churches that already exist
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Good grief. Until a few decades ago, Indonesia was a Dutch colony. The idea that the presence of churches there is purely proof of Muslim magnanimity is absurd.
More:
In 2008, a new building for the Reformed Evangelical Church in Jakarta called Reformed Millennium Center of Indonesia (RMCI), which includes The Messiah Cathedral (a 4800-seat auditorium) was finished. It took 16 years to persuade the Indonesian government to issue a permit to build the church
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The mere fact that it took *16 years* to secure a permit should tell you Indonesia is not exactly friendly to the idea of the construction of churches.
More:
No I won’t do to report about the constuction of churches here on Jihad Watch.
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Ridiculous. Jihad Watch has reported many times on Christians’ struggle to rebuild destroyed churches—in Indonesia, in Egypt, in Syria, and in many other places.
Here’s one such:
“Egyptian military chief vows to rebuild Coptic churches”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/08/egyptian-military-chief-vows-to-rebuild-coptic-churches
Occasionally Christians are successful in being able to rebuild places of worship destroyed by Muslim mobs—often they face opposition and further violence.
The idea that Jihad Watch won’t cover these stories is simply ludicrous, and easily disproven.
More:
More from truth bender
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If you’re going to give me a ridiculous, inaccurate, and pejorative nickname, won’t you at least make an effort to spell it consistently? By the way, what happened to your use of “Americana’s” slur, “cravenimage”?
More:
[GI] Mazo doesn’t tell you what the Muslim Acehnese have done with their increased autonomy: they have imposed Shari’ah law. They now have *stoning* on the books.
Gravenimage omits the fact that the indonesian government fought a long civil war in an attempt to prevent the Acehnese from becoming an islamic state.
………………………………….
There is nothing unusual here. Dar-al-Islam is replete with splinter groups intent on violently setting up their own mini-Shari’ah states, and equally replete with Muslim countries violently suppressing the breakaway group.
This has more to do with the assertion of power than anything else. Indonesia did not want to lose Aceh province.
The implication that this meant that Indonesia was stalwartly opposed to allowing Shari’ah law is ludicrous.
Besides, Aceh now *is* a Shari’ah state, and an increasingly brutal and oppressive one—and this is with the countenance of Jakarta.
All in all, your efforts to posit a ‘moderate’ Muslim Indonesia here are not terribly persuasive.
Mazo says
Chinese temples were built in Moro controlled Sulu and Mindanao when it was ruled by the Sultanates, until the Philippine military burnt and razed the entire city of Jolo to the ground, slaughtering thousands of Moro and Chinese civilians, and destroying both the Chinese Temple and the Mosque.
The Indonesian government did nothing to stop Malay Muslims and non-Muslim Dayaks from ganging together in 1999 and slaughtering and raping Madurese Muslims, and destroying their mosques. Later on in 2001, the Dayaks went on another massacre of Madurese by themselves, and intimidated the Indonesian police into not interfering, and releasing Dayak suspects who were arrested. Does that mean Indonesia is persecuting Islam, since it let non-Muslim Dayaks get away with killing, beheading, raping Madurese and destroying their Mosques?
gravenimage says
Mazo wrote, among reams of other off-topic sand-throwing:
Indonesia was an ally of America and the west in the Cold War. America support Indonesia occupying West Papua and East Timor because they were anti communist…
………………………………….
All this shows is that the United States—and the Dutch, and every other Western nation—can be terribly short-sighted, especially given their ignorance over Islam and its aims.
This tells you nothing about Islam’s goals *actually* being in sync with that of the free West.
More:
Acehnese are free to demand whatever they want in their own territory.
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Really? In that case, I suppose we can expect demands for the imposition of Shari’ah in east London, the French Banlieues, and Dearborn, Michigan. Oh, wait…we *are* seeing such demands…
Good to know that you are perfectly fine with the organized oppression of women and non-Muslims, as well as flogging and with *stoning* on the books. *Appalling*.
Moreover, the claim that Shari’ah is a discrete phenomenon in Aceh alone is utterly false:
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3579/indonesia-sharia
Mazo says
The only sand thrower here is you. Libyan Arab Muslims and Acehnese Muslims supported West Papuan pagans and East Timorese Christians against the Javanese dominated Indonesian government. Indonesian repression of West Papuans and East Timorese and Acehnese has to do with Javanese supremacism, not Islam.
Acehnese are native to Aceh, they are not immigrants there, and they want to rule it by their own rules. They have not invaded other people’s lands like the Dutch did when they invaded Aceh and annexed it into Indonesia.
dumbledoresarmy says
Sez the Mohammedan sand-thrower: “Acehnese are native to Aceh, they are not immigrants there, and they want to rule it by their own rules.”
Those ‘own rules’ being, one must assume, the hideously antihuman and inhuman sharia of Islam…that is, of the Arab Imperial Cult.
But what if an Acehnese person living in Aceh were to want to *leave* Islam, and become a Buddhist or a Christian, and at the same time, *not* to be killed, and *not* to live as a degraded, oppressed, humiliated and imperilled dhimmi?
Nor did the Muslim Acehnese, historically, show any particular inclination to remain peaceably within their ancestral territory (that is, the territory their forebears inhabited before embracing the Death Cult, the Religion of Murder, Lies, Rape and Robbery). They were *pirates*. They waged *Jihad*. They *attacked* and raided and invaded and robbed their *non-Muslim neighbours*. Their traditional literature has been studied: it is *chockful* of Koranic verses and is basically all about glorifying Jihad.
Indeed, it’s probable that the *Dutch* went after the Acehnese Muslims for precisely the same reasons as the French went after the North African Muslims: if you want to stop piracy, and render the sea lanes more peaceful, you have to burn out the pirates’ nests.
Semeru says
Poppycock, the dutch went into Aceh so as to exploit its natural resources, especially black pepper and oil, and to eliminate an independent native state player, It was the Dutch who where the marauders and thieves.
The Dutch colonial government declared war on Aceh on 26 March 1873. An expedition under general-major Köhler was sent out in 1874, which was able to occupy most of the coastal areas, but never gained full control over the mountainous interior. The Sultan requested and possibly received military aid from Italy and the United States in Singapore: in any case the Aceh army was rapidly modernized, and Aceh soldiers managed to kill Köhler. A second expediton led by general Van Swieten managed to capture the kraton (sultan’s palace): the Sultan had however been warned, and had escaped capture. Intermittent guerrilla warfare continued in the region for ten years, with many victims on both sides. Around 1880 the Dutch strategy changed: rather than continuing the war, they now concentrated on defending areas already under control, which were the central region (modern day Banda Aceh), and the harbour town of Olehleh. On 13 October 1880 the colonial government declared the war as over.
War began again in 1883, when the British ship Nisero was stranded in Aceh, in an area not controlled by the Dutch. A local leader asked for ransom from both the Dutch and the English, and under English pressure the Dutch were forced to attempt to liberate the sailors. After a failed Dutch attempt to rescue the hostages, where the local leader Teuku Umar was asked for help but he refused, the Dutch together with the English invaded the territory. The Sultan gave up the hostages, and received a large amount in cash in exchange. The Dutch Minister of Warfare Weitzel now again declared open war on Aceh, and warfare continued, with little success, as before. The Dutch now also tried to enlist local leaders: the aforementioned Umar was bought with cash, opium, and weapons. Umar received the title panglima prang besar (upper warlord of the government). Umar called himself rather Teuku Djohan Pahlawan (Johan the heroic). On 1 January 1894 Umar even received Dutch aid to build an army. However, two years later Umar attacked the Dutch with his new army, rather than aiding the Dutch in subjugating inner Aceh. This is recorded in Dutch history as “Het verraad van Teukoe Oemar” (the treason of Teuku Umar).
In 1892 and 1893 the subjugation of Aceh was considered to have failed. Major J.B. van Heutsz, a colonial military leader, then wrote a series of articles on Aceh, proclaiming the use of excessive force to subjugate the province. This advice was followed: in 1898 Van Heutsz was proclaimed governor of Aceh, and with his lieutenant, later Dutch Prime Minister Hendrikus Colijn, most of Aceh was (nominally) brought under Dutch control. They charged colonel Van Daalen with breaking remaining resistance. Van Daalen destroyed several villages, killing at least 2,900 Acehnese, among which 1,150 women and children. Dutch losses numbered just 26, and Van Daalen was promoted. By 1904 Aceh was fully under Dutch control. Estimated total casualties on the Aceh side range from 50,000 to 100,000 dead, and over a million wounded.
Mazo says
@Dumbledoresarmy
Do you realize that the Dutch and Spanish colonialists in southeast asia are equally despised by the non-Muslim Chinese and other natives as they are by the Muslims?
Did you not read what I posted about Spanish in the Philippines and Moros ? Why did non-Muslim Chinese side with Moros against Spain. Could have someing to do with the behavior of the colonialists. Massacring people and colonizing their land doesn’t make for friendly behavior.
The same in Indonesia. In 1740, the Dutch colonialists massacred Chinese in Batavia in Java. The Chinese then rose up in rebellion along with Javanese Muslims against the Dutch rule in the Java War in 1741. The Dutch were only able to defeat the rebels because Madurese Muslims sided with the Dutch against the Chinese and Javanese Muslims.
In fact there was no anti-Chinese sentiment until the Dutch came, and instilled it in the native population, the Dutch did everything they could to make Chinese and Indonesians hate each other through their policies. The same with the British in Malaysia.
Since the Moros were never conquered by Spain, they weren’t subjected to Spanish brainwashing, and never had anti-Chinese sentiment. The Moros would only attack and kill Filipinos, Spaniards, Americans, and Japanese, while not lifting a finger on the Chinese. In fact in the Philippines, its the Catholic Filipinos and Chinese who hate each other, Filipinos disciminate against Chinese and they helped Spain massacre Chinese in Manila in 1603 and 1663. While Moros and Chinese fought side by side against the Spanish and then the Japanese.
The Dutch once wiped out the entire (non-Muslim) male population of the Banda islands. They were violent and brutal colonialists and no amount of twisting by you can change that.
Most of the Sultanates in southeast asia were peaceful until provoked and invaded by the colonialists, Moros started raiding the Philippines only after Spain started attacking them.
In fact they were mosly on the receiving end of violence. Thailand (Ayutthaya) had long dominated the Malay states by attacking them, and reducing them to vassal status, forcing Malay Kings to acknowledge the Thai King as their lord and pay tribute. Around 1400, Parameswara converted to Islam, changed his name to Iskandar Shah and paid tribute to China, asking the Chinese for help against Thailand. The Chinese then placed the Malacca Sultanate under Chinese protection and forced the Thai to give up their overlord status over the Malays.
The Portuguese too were reknown for their piratical activities by the Chinese. The Portuguese conquered the Malacca Sultanate in 1511 and brutally sacked the city, massacring thousands of civilians and enslaving people. They then tried to enter relations with China, but the Malay Sultan sent a letter to China about the Portuguese invasion. After that, China imprisoned and executed the Portuguese delegation, defeating the Portuguese twice at Tamao, and wiping out Portuguese pirates along the coast of China, demanding that the Portuguese restore the Malay Sultan to his throne.
Thailand was free to resume its attacks on the Malays again after the fall of Malacca. Again, Thailand reduced Malay Sultanates like Pattani and Kelantan to vassalage, forcing the Malay Sultans to pay alleigance to Thailand. After several Malay rebellions against the Thai, the Thai split Pattani into several vassal Sultanates. The British in 1909 demanded that the Thai cede Kedah to Thai rule, after signing a treaty with the British, the Thai then directly annexed Pattani as a province instead of being just a vassal state, since they didn’t want the British taking anymore, that is why there is an insurgency in Thailand today.
Semeru says
A case of chronic truth bending
Mr Spencer who is sitting several thousands of miles away from the incident writes
Armed Muslim mob blocks construction of church and then cites
“South Sumatra, hundreds of Islamists block the construction of a Protestant church,” by Mathias Hariyadi for Asia News, February 21
Jakarta (AsiaNews) – Late yesterday afternoon, hundreds of armed men, led by local Muslim leaders, stormed and forcibly occupied a plot of land owned by the Indonesian Christian community Huria Kristen Batak Protestan (HKBP)
The local fish wraps report
Church project needs proper permit
Certain residents in Talang Kelapa subdistrict, Alang-alang Lebar district in Palembang, South Sumatra, were up in arms Thursday over the construction of a Huria Batak Protestant Church (HKBP).
The protesters said the project lacked the relevant permits from the Palembang municipality and Religious Affairs Ministry.
Rally coordinator Muhammad Syueb, 41, said residents were not against the church per se as long as the project went through the right process.
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2014/02/20/church-project-needs-proper-permits.html
Another local fish wrap
Residents Reject Gutters Coconut Development HKBP
During the activities carried out by the security police Sukarame, chairman Comr Imam and monitored by Danramil 418-07/Sukarame along Babinsa Village Coconut Gutters to prevent things that are not desirable.
Dozens of these people do longmach of the page to the place of the Al Fatah HKBP development, while carrying banners that read “Allah akbar, we Muslims Village Coconut Gutters premises expressly disclaims HKBP development within the Village Coconut Gutters’.
http://goo.gl/dv6dgd
More
There are no permits, construction of the church in Palembang residents protested
Merdeka.com – Dozens of people from the Village Coconut Gutters, District Reed Width (AAL), Palembang, occupying land HKBP development on an area of two hectares. The land is located on RT 12, RW 05, Village Coconut Gutters, District AAL Palembang, Wednesday (19/2) afternoon.
The refusal of the occupation as a place of worship around their settlements because they have not obtained permission from the city government.
http://goo.gl/PBFAyM
If you should look at the photo in the above link, there cannot be more than several dozen people, more importantly none of them appear to be armed.
Then if we go to Huria Kristen Batak Protestan (HKBP) website, we will notice they have not even bothered to report the incident
http://hkbp.or.id