It’s odd that Basel Ghattas, who is himself a Christian, would want to stop Christians from enlisting in the IDF, when he himself is a member of the Knesset. Shouldn’t he be loyal to the State of Israel, and want to see it defended? And why does he think that the Pope would take an interest in who does or does not join the IDF, which is not a question involving matters of the Christian faith? In any case, Ghattas should be removed from the Knesset, as he is clearly an enemy of the State of Israel and has no business holding a seat in its representative body.
Ghattas is apparently a willing tool of the Muslim agenda, which co-opts Arabic-speaking Christians and demands their loyalty on the basis of a shared Arab identity (while keeping up a low level of harassment and persecution at the same time). A more coherent alliance is the one long advocated by the pioneering historian Bat Ye’or: an alliance of Jews and Christians against the Islamic jihad that endeavors to subjugate both of them and relegate them to dhimmi status, denied basic rights. The increasing Christian enlistment in the IDF is a welcome sign of the strengthening of that alliance. Free people worldwide should hope that the rate of that enlistment will increase still more.
“Stop Christian Enlistment in IDF, Arab Lawmaker Urges Pope,” from Israel Today, February 23:
Israeli Arab Member of Knesset Basel Ghattas (pictured) has issued an appeal to Pope Francis to personally intervene against the enlistment of Arabic-speaking Christians in the Israeli army.
Ha’aretz reports that Ghattas’ letter was delivered to the Vatican’s representative in Jerusalem, Archbishop Giuseppe Lazzarotto, in hopes that Pope Francis would address the issue when he visits the Holy Land in May.
Like most other minorities, local Arabic-speaking Christians are not required to serve in the Israeli army, but a growing number are choosing to do so, many at the encouragement of the Nazareth-based Israeli Christian Recruitment Forum.
Ghattas and other Arab MKs have grown increasingly hostile toward the activities of the forum. Recently, Ghattas’ colleague MK Hanin Zoabi called the forum’s spokesman Shadi Haloul a “coward” and threatened that he would be dealt with on the streets of Nazareth.
In related news, the Knesset’s Labor, Health, and Welfare Committee last Wednesday passed the second and third readings of a new bill that will differentiate between Arab Muslims and Christians.
The practical implication of the bill is that Christians will be recognized as an independent minority on local councils and labor committees. For Haloul and others, it means so much more. It means that they can finally step out from under the shadow of an imposed Arab identity.
eib says
Christians are not the allies of Muslims.
Our faith is directly descended from the Jews.
Salvation comes from the Jews.
It does not come from a Muslim or Arab.
Alex says
This is the mentality of Dhimtude. Please review the brilliantly written book by “Mark Durie” called ” The Third Choice”. That will explain why this ignorant “Arab Christian” is saying what he is saying.
shrugger says
It’s called the Israeli Defense Force not the Jewish Defense Force.
Are the Christians in Israel [also] citizens of Israel? Wouldn’t they also like to defend their home? Seems fairly simple to me.
miriam rove says
Excellent! M
mortimer says
Ghattas is a perfect example of a dhimmi, a co-opted kafir. The despised kafirs (‘who have gone astray’) are tolerated as long as they help in the advance of Islam.
Were it not for Israel, the whole lot of them would be Syrians or Jordanians. Jordan annexed the West Bank and ran it as a province of Jordan for about 20 years. They weren’t ‘Palestinians’ at that time. (What ‘Palestinians’?)
The comments of Ghattas are treasonous and a breach of his oath of loyalty to Israel.
Rudy Grant from Canada says
I agree that all non-Muslims must join together to fight jihad.
As far as salvation is concerned that would require a God and of course we all know there is no tooth fairy!
Long live a secular Israel with a Jewish identity, the only place in the middle east where all religions, those of no religion, and all sexual orientations can live in peace.
thomas_h says
“As far as salvation is concerned that would require a God and of course we all know there is no tooth fairy!.”
Absolutely!
But we (both theists and atheists) also know that existence, or nonexistence, of tooth fairy has nothing to do with existence, or nonexistence, of God.
You seem to imply we hope God will save us from Islam while we idly wait and watch. If so, you are wrong.
We don’t believe God will do for us what we can and should do ourselves. God saves our souls, but we must save our life, family and country. The believers among us may pray to God to give us strength, courage and intelligence to succeed in the task, but nobody asks Him to do our job.
“Long live a secular Israel with a Jewish identity, … where all religions … and all sexual orientations can live in peace.””
I wonder why you needed to add the “secular” and “sexual orientation” qualifier…
Rudy Grant says
Well of course there is no tooth fairy or Santa or Zeus.
Israeli scientists have found no proof of any Biblical stories.
In fact, many bible stories have been thoroughly debunked.
So if we can agree upon the possibility of no God of Abraham we can stop fighting over who are the chosen people and concentrate on defeating Jihad.
The Jewish people deserve a homeland with a Jewish identity.
I mention the the extreme tolerance and acceptance Israel has shown to other religions and sexual orientation simply because in other countries in the Middle East you would be put to death.
I would hope all Israelis, Jew or not would want to protect that.
It’s amazing that all three of the Abrahamic religions are intolerant to others yet Islam is best at carrying out the immoral morals of their particular storybook.
Defcon 4 says
Hahahahaha. It’s strange how libtards like you have nothing to say about the LGBT community’s bashing and intolerance of Christianity and Judaism (while ironically embracing the one “Abrahamic” religion that would destroy them all).
BTW, just because a child molesting, mass murdering, Jew hating psychopath said his was an Abrahamic religion doesn’t make it so — especially considering islamic dogma states that the religious texts of Christians and Jews is corrupted and superseded by the hate filled books of islam.
thomas_h says
”Israeli scientists have found no proof of any Biblical stories.In fact, many bible stories have been thoroughly debunked. So if we can agree upon the possibility of no God of Abraham we can stop fighting over who are the chosen people and concentrate on defeating Jihad.”
I admit I can’t see in what way your comment is a reply to mine…But since you think it is, I am curious to hear when is the last time you have seen anyone here “fighting over who are the chosen people”?
And why do you think we need to be informed that “many bible stories have been thoroughly debunked”. Do you seriously believe an averagely intelligent grown-up person becomes an atheist, or theist because a story gets debunked, or confirmed? But if you do, why do you come to this website with this “news”?
Rudy from Canada says
I come to this site because I don’t need your permission to do so and I love the idea of Israel.
I also think that the entire world knows that the Middle East is the way it is because of religion. (France & Britain as well)
As a realist, I strive to make a more muscular Secular society.
Something like Israel.
Joel says
RE: Proof: (of the Torah aka Old Testament))
When I was in graduate school in NY, a number of decades ago, there was an archeological find, carbon dated to be about 3,000 years old–of skeletons of men who were over 7feet tall–in Exodus ( when Moses sent the 12 spies) they talk of a land of giants.
A few years ago, some other archeologists found, in a body of water, ancient chariots, including one with gold wheels. Again, in the Book Of Exodus, the Pharaoh and his army, in chariots, chased the Jews, and the Pharaoh’s chariot had gold wheels.
The Tomb of Rachel (mentioned earlier, I believe in Genesis) still stands.
———————————————————————————————-
There have been other archeological discoveries over the decades.
Wellington says
Not being religious myself, I am in sympathy with some of what you say, but I would caution that being non-religious should not mean it’s justifiable to also be anti-religious. Anti-Islam, certainly, since Islam in an egregious, liberty-crushing and dangerous religion, but anti-religious in general, no.
I would quote here (as I have on previous occasions) someone who was about as wise as anyone who ever lived and who himself was a skeptic (though not an atheist). I refer to Ben Franklin who observed that if man is bad with religion, imagine what he’d be without it. Of course, Islam would be the exception to this shrewd assessment.
Rudy from Canada says
Expressing my disbelief is not being anti-religious.
Although I agree with you that Islam is the ideology that needs watching.
JIMJFOX says
“LGBT community’s bashing and intolerance of Christianity and Judaism” EVIDENCE?????
Religious twerps just don’t get it- you ALL claim “my God’s the right one” and yet all 3 Abrahamic lies (sorry, “religions”) claim the same God, in different disguises.
Until you religiots grow up and defeat your CHILDISH fears of death and hell there’s no chance of ending these religious wars. You’re a gutless bunch.
IT’S ALL IN YOUR HEADS, FOOLS!
dumbledoresarmy says
Never, never, never use the phrase “Abrahamic religions”.
It was coined by *Muslims*. That alone should give you pause.
I personally refuse to use it. It’s totally inaccurate.
There are the two Biblical faiths – Judaism, and Christianity.
Then there is Islam, something else entirely, an Enemy Alien masquerading as ‘long lost cousin’; a fake, a foe-fic plagiarism that has the unutterable *hide* to pretend that it is the original and the *other* two are fakes.
See here for a wide-ranging discussion of the subject. Presented at a synagogue, by an Anglican priest.
http://markdurie.blogspot.com.au/2014/01/the-abrahamic-fallacy.html
somehistory says
You wrote: “Israeli scientists have found no proof of any Biblical stories.”
You should look up the many, many, many accounts of verification of “Biblical stories” found in archeology journals. There have been so very many discoveries made that prove much of what the Bible says about the ancient past of Israel and surrounding nations that wished to wipe them out or even tried in one way or another. Proof about what happened to Jerusalem, Babylon, Tyre, Assyria, Jericho, etc. The ruler-ships of King David and his son Solomon.
Look it up. Broaden your horizons.
And one other thought: long before *scientists* discovered that the earth is round, the Bible said it is (Isa. 40:22). This is just one of multiple facts found in the Bible that scientists have *proven.*
stipe oz says
I also think that the entire world knows that the Middle East is the way it is because of religion. (France & Britain as well)
As a realist, I strive to make a more muscular Secular society.
Something like Israel.
muscular secular society? gates of vienna, reconquista, lepanto, battle of tours ring a bell. you are free because a religion opposed islam rudy and that was the MUSCULAR christian forces until you libtards demanded less of the doctrine that created west civilisation. people like you are the reason the west is falling.
Transmaster says
Why doesn’t Basel Ghattas come out and just say it, he is one of those crap Christians that even after all of these millennia blames the Jews for the crucifixion of Jesus.
n.a. palm says
O.T. Robert: FYI: A 25 year old muslim was taken off a plane bound for Jordan here in DFW. He was a suspect in a hit and run incident in Arlington Texas in which an elderly man was critically injured. It seems that the young man had to drive up on the sidewalk in order to his this man. Muslim terror? Absolutely.
Joel says
Why are you calling this young pos a man?
He is an animal; slime
My opinion)
citycat says
I think some of that is happening here in England. After the b&q knife fatwa there were knifings, and there has been strange accidents, but that is probably my Islamophobian mind, which is what Islam wants, to cause Islamophobia, strike terror into their hearts.
That accident was probably on impulse on seeing a lone vulnerable infidel, for some weird gratification.
Killing infidels at random- probably a sexual buzz for the Muslim. They can’t rise above that level, like dogs, no, worse than dogs, dogs are natural. Yep, they are stuck on a low energy level.
The Muslim sorcerers probably think they are specially higher than the murderers, but they are all in the same swamp.
Alan S says
If I was a young man today, as Christian I would want to join the IDF (foreign Legion if there is such a thing) Israel needs every defence it can get.
dumbledoresarmy says
Exactly.
And that’s what the de-dhimmified Christians in Israel are doing. They are not stupid. They look over the fence and they see Christians in Egypt, Syria and Iraq being either massacred or when not massacred, treated like sh*t. And living in badly-run dirty sh*t-holes, because of Mohammedan misrule, greed, etc. They see the precarious position of the Christians in Jordan and Lebanon, who could find themselves just as badly off as the others, in a split-second; living on top of the volcano.
Then they look at themselves. In the Jewish state they have running water, power laid on, modern medical care (and they *know* their ethnically-Jewish doctors and nurses, whether observant or atheist, will care for them professionally); and they have religious freedom and civil and political rights. And the smartest among them *know* that all of this would be destroyed in an instant if the thin steel wall that is the IDF, encircling Israel, were to be broken.
So some of them, now, are deciding to *invest* in that wall, and become part of it, themselves. So that their families will not suffer what Christian families are suffering in Iraq and Syria and Egypt, and the continual atmosphere of fear in Jordan and Lebanon.
I hope that the Christian ‘Arab’ – or Aramaic, some of them are reclaiming *that* identity, which is distinct from Arab – soldiers and officers in the IDF will, politely but firmly, tell MK Basel Ghattas to go jump. And to stop poking his nose in where he is not wanted. Who died and made *him* king of all the Christians in Israel? He should be politely told that he is a dhimmi fool and should *stop* carrying water for those – the Muslims – who are currently persecuting and massacring Christians in multiple countries worldwide. As for the sinister mohammedan Hanin Zoabi, she should be told that Israel is not a mohammedan country and that she has no right whatsoever to order Christians around. These Arab or Aramaic Christians should tell her to her face, in public: the Pact of Omar is null and void here, we renounce it and condemn it as a system of oppression, we refuse to live by it, you are not our boss, we are *not* dhimmis, we will do as our own conscience and commonsense direct, and conscience and commonsense direct us to defend this little country in which we live, where we are safe, far safer than we would be in any *Muslim*-ruled land.
Joel says
IF the pope were to get involved in internal affairs of Middle Eastern countries, here are a few that should be of concern to him:
Saudi Arabia–allows no Bibles (possible jail time); no churches.
Somalia- the same but more violent.
Syria- the ” Rebels” are killing Christians, ( including women and children, nuns and priests) and burning churches.
Egypt- the MB is doing the same.
West Bank- Abbas has said that the West Bank and a Palestinian state would be Jew Free. (How would they support the people? Where would their water, electricity and food come from?)
Gaza-what freedom do Christians have their, under Hamas.?
Could add to this.
Anyone is free to.
bernie says
don’t forget the horrific oppression of Christians in Pakistan, though of course Pakistan is better-described as a South Asian country, rather than a Middle-Eastern one.
JanandJim Hartzell says
The Pope has no power in Israel. And no power over me, thou fool.
JanandJim Hartzell says
The Pope has no power in Israel. And no power over me, thou fool.
Diane Harvey says
“Shouldn’t he be loyal to the State of Israel, and want to see it defended?”
All elected officials, federal and state, are bound by the Article VI oath to support and defend “this Constitution.” (That phrase “this Constitution,” meaning the written one, not the leftist version written in invisible ink, appears 11 times in the 1787 document.)
How many of those in Congress, zeroing in on Democrats, really mean their voluntarily-taken oaths of office?
Charli Main says
Basel Ghattas and his ilk are not Christian Arabs. They are Muslim 5 columnists hiding behind a Christian façade to further the Muslim agenda.
Basel Ghattas is the worm inside the Judeo- Christian apple.
WVinMN says
No, they’re Christians all right, and actually quite representative of the cowardly, dhimmified Christian that one encounters throughout the M.E. Just go and ask the average Lebanese, Syrian, Iraqi, Egyptian, etc. Christian who they blame for persecution going on in their home countries. And I’m referring to people living in areas outside the ME (i.e. safe to speak your mind). Almost to a person, they will call out Great Satan and his little brother Israel. That’s why I say let them burn.
Bradamante says
It sounds like the Christians of the Middle East have an advanced case of Stockholm Syndrome. But I’m encouraged by people like Brigitte Gabriel, a Lebanese Christian who founded ACT for America. If you go on Youtube, the videos by the Israeli Christian Forum for Recruitment are inspiring.
Defcon 4 says
Gee, I’ve met two Lebanese Christians who had no hatred for Jews or Israel. As a matter of fact, one of the first things one of them did after he received his US citizenship was to visit Israel. One of them was one of the few Christians I know who knew and agreed that Yeshua was Jewish.
voegelinian says
Yeah, the issue is more complicated than WNinMN implies; but on the other hand, the prevalence of dhimmitude among non-Muslims in Muslim regions is a major problem. Someone should try to do a scientific survey of Middle Eastern and African Christians on this issue.
WVinMN says
Well, science did rediscover the Coelacanth, and a surprising amount of people swear they have witnessed Big Foot in the flesh. So, who knows, anythings possible I guess. I remain skeptical unless you provide photographic evidence of such a claim. And, sketchy, BW photos depicting Arab Christian “shadow people” visiting the Temple Mount don’t count.
Philip says
I had a co-worker, who claimed she was a Christian from Syria. She used to argue with me about Israel. At one point, she said that Hitler was right. I asked her why she was so emotionally attached to the Israel-Palestine conflict, she said she was an Arab. So for them, race comes first.
Kepha says
I’m not going to throw mud at the “dhimmified” or “Sotkcholm Syndrome” Christians of the ME. We in the West have grown pretty dhimmified before a “secularist” establishment which is in fact made up of worshipers of Molech (the state) and Mammon.
We are expected to yield, in the name of “tolerance”, “diversity”, and “separation of church and state” every time some self-destructive petty sinner wants us to not only accept his deviancy, but pay taxes to have propaganda about it disseminated to our kids and everyone else.
Maybe we ought to launch discrimination suits because we don’t have reps on the governing boards of ACLU, the Communist Party, Planned Parenthood, etc.
Salah says
Check out his picture and compare it to a Muslims’s picture trying to intimidate non-Muslims!
They all have the same position: Lifting the index finger in the air.
Rudy Grant says
I have known many Arab Christians.
Most will side with other Arabs.
Their disdain for the killers of Christ (never existed) taught to them every day by their preachers far exceeds their fear and hate of Muslims.
The only Christians I know that side with Jews are the apocalyptic ones.
You know the idiots I’m talking about.
Salah says
You’re wrong. Some Arab Christians have indeed being brainwahed by 14 centuries of islamic propaganda. Most of them haven’t, they stand unconditionnally with Israel. I’m one of them.
Rudy Grant says
Well I’m glad you are.
Let’s hope the ones I know are the exception.
voegelinian says
Salah tends to make sweeping claims. Until I see proof of this “most”, I think it’s better to treat this as a major problem, and accordingly to apply the same litmus test to all Christians whose provenance includes any part of the Dar-al-Islam as we do to distinguish those who pass a baseline qualification for being anti-Islam (which remains a dicey proposition, seeing as there is no coherent consensus yet and no real “anti-Islam movement” per se which could articulate a self-identity).
Salah says
@voegelinian
“Until I see proof of this “most”, I think it’s better to treat this as a major problem”
Unfortunately, many Christians are unable to differentiate between Charity and Cowardice. That’s why you won’t see this “proff” as long as they’re living under the threat of Islam whether it be in a Muslim majority country or a politically correct Western country.
Want to see a real “proof”? you’ll see it in a True free country: Israel.
Check out the above article:
“The increasing Christian enlistment in the IDF is a welcome sign of the strengthening of that alliance.”
And…
“Like most other minorities, local Arabic-speaking Christians are not required to serve in the Israeli army, but a growing number are choosing to do so,…”
Defcon 4 says
It’s not just “Arabic” Christians either — just look at Mel Moron Gibson.
Salah says
A true Christian is by definition someone who considers Jesus, a Jew, to be the Son of God. That’s why a True Christian can never be an anti semitic. Moreover, a True Christian can never be an anti anyone, not even an anti Muslims. He’s an anti Evil, an anti specific ideology, an anti specific culture.
Rudy Grant says
Geez, you think God could have made it plainer to us poor humans as to what makes you a reeeeeeeeal Christian.
Of course Allah or Ali Baba, keep forgetting his name and his prophet MO is even less clear.
Kind of makes you think a bunch of illiterate sheep herders wrote these stories.
Defcon 4 says
I believe the argument you’re making is a fallacy of argumentation known as the No True Scotsman.
Bernard Sussman, JD says
Now the Arabs are complaining that Israel has diversity in its army — and that the non-Jewish troops include Arab Christians, who are highly motivated soldiers and especially skilled in fluent Arabic and familiarity with Arab culture (and Arab chicanery).
Undoubtedly this demand on the Pope will be followed by special fatwas to kill Christians found to be defending Israel or something similar.
voegelinian says
“If these people wish to survive and hopefully once again thrive in their traditional homelands, they need to pick more reliable and less devious allies than the Muslims about them.”
They might be more inclined to do so, if the non-Muslim West showed that they gave a shit once in a while.
Rudy Grant says
As soon as you do you are labeled a racist and are marginalized.
It takes a special human being to do this.
Islamisdeath says
I was amazed recently to discover most people att church are completely unaware of Muslim persecution of Christians in the ME and that they believed that Muslims believe in Jesus. I go to a very large church with a largely upper income congregation. They are completely clueless but the media has kept them informed on “the evils” of Israel. I set them right or at least to thinking
voegelinian says
We also should not fail to factor in those Jewish Israelis whom this Dhimmi will find to be a receptive audience. I.e., Christians aren’t the only Dhimmis in history; many Jews are similarly afflicted. And Hindus; and Buddhists.
Fr. Basil says
I don’t know why Ghattas made this odd request. Surely he is aware that there are many Christians in Israel, such as the Orthodox, who do not acknowledge the jurisdiction of the pope and would pay no attention to such a directive.
Nan says
Maybe he’ll call out the other patriarchs?
thomas_h says
@Rudy from Canada
the “reply” button after your reply to me is missing. That’s why I place this at the end of the queue.
I am not in the position, neither am I interested, in giving you permission to come to this or other site. I don’t mind you making a fool of yourself wherever you wish.
However I am free to express my amazement why, if you love the “idea of Israel”, rather then real, living Israel as most of us here, you would come to a site where your prose would evince a shrug, or sarcasm at the most. There are other sites where people share their pet “idea of Israel”, some of them quite funny. I am sure your “idea of Israel” you love so much would meet with much greater interest than here.
You see, I’m only trying to be helpful.
Otherwise, believe me, I have absolutely nothing against you parading your silliness here. I have been reader of this site for many years and I can tell you, you are not the first.
Ah, lest I forget, your introduction of yourself as “a realist who strives to make a more muscular Secular society“ has caused much merriment here. Jolly droll!
Rudy from Canada says
How religious of you!
I’ll continue to amuse you as long as I can.
thomas_h says
“How religious of you!”
Religious?
You mean having a laugh at you is my my religious duty? Unfortunately, not exactly. In fact on the contrary. But I am not a saint, so when I have the choice of suffering a fool and making fun of one I choose the latter. It is a sin, I know, I know, but, hey , sometimes sinning is so irresistible…
“I’ll continue to amuse you as long as I can.”
Your repertoire seems rather limited, but I promise I will try to be amused as long as I can. So go ahead, amuse me as you promise.
Rudy from Canada says
As humans evolve and are exposed to more information than ever before they will free themselves from the shackles that have bound their imagination.
“The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable.” is a quote I’ve always appreciated.
Hopefully your immature tomfoolery will not stop you from seeking the truth.
The thing that protects religion and the religious from one another are Secular governments.
Please give me the name of a Theocracy that works.
Amuse me.
Rudy from Canada says
Well I think I’ll continue to amuse you then.
WVinMN says
I just get such a kick out of small, pretentious atheist thugs like yourself! So intelligent, enlightened and evolved! Just like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Hitler, Castro, and on, and on, and on…
I DESPISE islam, but the muzzi’s have a looong way to go to pull even with the murder/torture blood ecstasy your peeps pulled off during the 20th century!
thomas_h says
Rudy, the red-nose clown,
What in the world are you talking about?
The dangers of theocracy?
And why do you address this weird ranting to me?
Do you use steroids while “striving to develop more muscular secular society”? Not good for your mind, you know.
First you create a massive straw man and then you pretend to demolish it with imaginary stick. Do you think all that messy, but completely incongruous oration can hide the fact that you have nothing to say relevant to what i wrote? And if you had you’d still lack the wit to say it?
Poor performance. We are not amused. Go away.
Rudy from Canada says
Well as soon as the name calling starts I know I’ve won the argument.
Your insinuation that I used a straw man argument is of course the actual straw man argument.
Nice try!
Well good night and pleasant dreams.
thomas_h says
”Well as soon as the name calling starts I know I’ve won the argument.”
Considering that very few can read your inanities yet refrain from hinting you are a natural fool, your debates must have been one long chain of personal victories. Just keep on with your pompous, asinine twaddle – this is your unbeatable strategy to emerge victorious from any argument.
”Your insinuation that I used a straw man argument is of course the actual straw man argument.”
You should educate yourself what does creating “straw man argument” before using the term. On the other hand, don’t bother – you are funnier when you are confused.
And how is it going with your “striving to develop more muscular secular society”?
Ah, but I overlook another gem of yours:
“As humans evolve and are exposed to more information than ever before they will free themselves from the shackles that have bound their imagination. “
Oh boy, how profound!
Well, not really. I am only kidding.,,
In fact, you sound as you have been exposed to an overdose of information and now your “unshackled imagination” makes you fantasize you have something sensible to say.
But I’d better go back to your previous posting and hopefully pick up some more pearls of wisdom.
thomas_h says
Rudy,
I can’t wait longer – it is almost 2 am in Denmark. Ill catch up with you later tomorrow. Good night.
dumbledoresarmy says
Ladies and gentlemen. Re remarks about 1/ dhimmi Christians (whether inside Israel, or elsewhere) and 2/ clueless Western Christians.
The former *can* be liberated.
The latter *can* be educated. (Those who believe otherwise, are people who refuse to believe that there is a Holy Spirit or that said Holy Spirit has any power at all to free people from spiritual bondages. I am not addressing such people.)
And a potential ‘educating’ moment approaches rapidly.
The “World Day of Prayer” approaches – 7 March. *Do not* dismiss this as a World Council of Churches timewaster.
*This* year there is a HUGE opportunity to educate. Not in the service itself. But afterwards, over the coffee and tea and cakes in the parish hall.
http://www.worlddayofprayeraustralia.org/world-day-of-prayer/2014-egypt
Because the liturgy has been prepared by *Egyptian Christians*. Not sure whether the Catholics or (very small minority) Protestants or by the Copts. Which means that, at least, some attention is being focused on Egyptian Christians.
I am quite sure it won’t say anything about the *real* problem: Islam, jihad, the sharia, the seven hells of dhimmitude. In fact, I’m sure it will be just the opposite.
But that doesn’t matter: if *all* of us here, posting or lurking, who identify as Christians go along to whichever World Day of Prayer event is within striking distance, and if we read, or reread, before we go (it’s on the 7th of March) Mark Durie’s “The Third Choice” and “Liberty to the Captives”, and Bat Yeor, “The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians Under Islam”, and if we also provide ourselves with multiple printouts of Bat Yeor’s excellent article, “A Christian Minority: The Copts in Egypt”, of which a pdf file is available on line, here:
http://www.dhimmitude.org/archive/by_copts_1976.pdf
Take ten or twenty copies of this article with you. Give one to the parish priest of the church hosting the Event. Strike up conversations, and give out the same article to others.
And here’s another excellent article, by Mark Durie. It’s about Muslim theft of Coptic girls. I am going to give this article – and the one I just linked, the one by Bat Yeor – to my parish priest and to the head of our Mothers’ Union group. (And I’m also going to give my priest a copy of the translated text of the Pact of Omar).
http://markdurie.blogspot.com/2009/11/abduction-and-islamization-of-christian.html
http://www.csi-int.org/pdfs/csi_coptic_report.pdf
And here’s another excellent article by Mark Durie, which throws light not only on Copts but on the conduct of dhimmified Christians throughout history, and in many places beside Egypt – even in Israel where they are not actually under official Muslim rule, but are often surrounded by Muslims in their particular districts – today:
http://markdurie.blogspot.com/2011/10/double-bind-upon-copts-dhimmitude-in.html
Monday, October 10, 2011
A Double-Bind Upon the Copts: dhimmitude in action
Again: print it out. Stick it in your bag. Take it to this ‘World Day of Prayer’ this March, and *give it to people*.
Because *my* church in *my* hometown is hosting our local area version of the Day of Prayer this year, I had the opportunity, in the annual Meeting of our parish church, while we were waiting for people to finish counting the votes for the position of parish councillors, to stand up and fill everyone in – in three minutes or less – on the situation of the Copts. My ‘background’ briefing was, I think, an eye-opener.
Now: every identifying Christian who visits or posts at this forum should seize the opportunity, this week, to do similar.
Let’s *all* do it, and see what happens, in churches all across the USA, UK, Canada, Australia, wherever.
If we encounter dhimmi Egyptian Christians, be gentle but be firm: remember, it’s like talking to people who’ve endured severe familial Abuse and are still in denial. They’re in spiritual bondage; spiritually oppressed; so begin by praying for their *spiritual* deliverance.
apostate says
testing.
Denise Maria Loisou Garbis says
As citizens of Israel Christians have the right to be in the army….but why send notice to the Pope and not the Orthodox Patriarch? More press & political clout?!?
citycat says
The Holy Spirit is booted up by the Christians’ Devotional Hymns. The energy that allows its presence is generated by the Christians. The Holy Spirit is Holy because of its purity. It can manifest anywhere there is desire for its presence. It has favourites, due to the existence of “belonging”.