In the Philippines, as in Israel and elsewhere, it is taken for granted by virtually all parties that the non-Muslim side is the one that has to demonstrate its good faith and make a gesture of good will. These are never reciprocated and are, indeed, understood by the jihadis as a sign of weakness. But that never stops non-Muslims from making these concessions.
“Philippines frees top Muslim rebel to keep peace deal on track,” from AFP, February 26 (thanks to Twostellas):
The Philippine government has freed a top Muslim rebel whose recent arrest had threatened to jeopardise a peace deal to end one of Asia’s longest running insurgencies, both sides said on Wednesday.
Wahid Tundok and his armed bodyguards were detained at a government checkpoint near the southern city of Cotabato on Sunday ahead of a peace deal with the 12,000-member Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF) expected within weeks.
Government as well as MILF negotiators swiftly criticised the arrest of Tundok, described by the military as a “high-value target” facing criminal charges including arson. The rebels had suggested it could be a deal-breaker.
“He is now in good hands,” MILF chief for political affairs Ghazali Jaafar said on Wednesday but declined to give further details.
“We are happy at the development.”
Jaafar and other senior MILF leaders say Tundok is a ranking rebel commander covered by an immunity guarantee from the government.
A rebel source close to the talks said Tundok had been turned over to an unnamed local Muslim official. The status of his guards was unknown.
Philippine government negotiators said in a statement on Wednesday that a lower court had rescinded its arrest warrant for Tundok.
Negotiations to free Tundok were spearheaded by a joint rebel-government committee monitoring the MILF ceasefire, leading to the “smooth resolution of the matter”, the government statement said.
The military had alleged Tundok had committed crimes on Mindanao island, the southern third of the Philippine islands where the Muslim insurgency has left some 150,000 dead since the 1970s.
But rebel and government sources privy to the peace negotiations said that Tundok had been actively supporting the talks and helping the military hunt a breakaway rebel faction opposed to the peace negotiations.
The government and the MILF wrapped up formal negotiations in January, and are expected to sign a final peace deal as early as mid-March, government negotiators said.
The deal calls for the creation of an expanded Muslim autonomous region, sharing of wealth in the area and eventually the disarmament of the rebel force.
Gleaner1 says
The Phillippino people have 150,000 reasons to regret giving any space to Islam in that Catholic country, like people around the globe on the borders of Islamic expansion, they’ve bought their wisdom at a bitter price.
This excellent filmed lecture by Dr Bill Warner illustrates the history of Islamic expansion throughout the Mediterranean countries for the last 1400 years, allow 45 mins for an enlightening piece of work.
You Tube:- Why we are afraid of Islam.
Salah says
“Philippines frees jihad leader to make peace with MILF”
Egypt knows how to “make peace” with the Muslim Brotherhood thugs:
(Cairo, EGY) – An Egyptian court sentenced 26 people to death Wednesday for forming a “terror group” to target shipping passing through the Suez Canal, judicial sources said.
http://www.sknvibes.com/news/newsdetails.cfm/85797
Mazo says
I already debunked the claims about the Philippines being justified in its war against the Moros Muslims when we were discussing this article.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/indonesia-armed-muslim-mob-blocks-construction-of-church
The Moros did not initiate the hostilities. The Moro in Mindanao were converted to Islam by Karim al-Makhdum, who arrived on Mindanao in a Chinese junk. The Moros in Sulu were converted to Islam by Sultan Sharif ul-Hashim. They converted peacefully and mixed Islam with their local animism and Hindu-Buddhist teachings, following their Adat (custom) derived from animism.
The Spanish were the ones who intiated first blood and attacked the Moros with absolutely no provocation. Every single Moro raid on the Philippines happened because of Spanish attacks. And don’t give me cr*p about Moros practicing slavery so Spain was justified in attacking them, because Spain did the exact same thing, the Spanish legalized enslavement of non-Catholics in the Philippines and practiced massive plantation slavery in the carribean.
The Moro and Lumads are the indigenous peoples to Mindanao and Sulu islands. The Maguindanao Sultanate at one point ruled over the entire Mindanao island. Its not Filipino land.
The Catholic Filipinos are made out of ethnic groups from Luzon and the Visayas islands in the northern Philippines, and speak Tagalog, Cebuan, and other languages. In fact some of their ancestors were Muslim, like the Tagalog King Rajah Sulayman of the Kingdom of Maynila. Their ancestors were conquered by the Spanish with the sword, Rajah Sulayman died in battle against Spain, and Spain forced them to convert to Catholicism.
The Catholic Tagalog Filipinos still revere their Muslim ancestor Rajah Sulayman as an anti-colonial hero and set up a statue of him in Manila, for fighting the Spanish.
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMAY5X_Rajah_Sulayman__Manila_Philippines
Moro and Lumad ethnic groups are different from the Catholic Filipinos. Moros are made out of Maranaw, Tausug, Maguindanaon and other Muslims from Mindanao and Sulu, and Mindanao is their homeland.
The Moros managed to fight the Spanish off for 300 years and stop them from conquering Mindanao and Sulu.
Chinese were persecuted by the Spanish for being non-Catholic, forced to live in the parang ghetto in Manila, and forced to pay higher taxes than Catholics, and were subjected to repeated massacres and explusion by the Spanish in 1603, 1663 and numerous other times.
In the Moro Sultanates, the Moros allowed massive amounts of Chinese to settle down peacefully, build pagan Temples, and never levied any Jizya. In fact, Chinese took control of nearly the entire Sulu economy in the 19th century and served in high ranking positions on the Sulu government, advising the Sultan. Many Chinese intermarried with Moros, the Moro Governor of Sulu, Abdusakur Mahail Tan is of Chinese descent.
In fact, the Sulu Sultanate became a tributary and protectorate of China, one Sulu Sultan in the 18th century even wanted China to effectively incorporate Sulu as Chinese territory, but the Chinese government refused.
These non-Muslim Chinese fought side by side with the Moros against the Spanish, after the Spanish expelled the Chinese from Manila in 1758 for being non-Catholic “infidels”, thousands of Chinese joined the Moro armies to fight Spain. When Spain raided Moro cities, they often targeted the Chinese quarter.
In the 19th century, non-Muslim Chinese merchants would run guns pass a Spanish blockade on Mindanao and Sulu, in order to get the rifles into the hands of Moros who were fighting the Spanish.
In the treaty which ended the Spanish-American War, Spain illegally “sold” the Moro lands in Mindanao to America, which Spain didn’t control. (How can you sell land you don’t own?)
America then signed the Bates Treaty with the Moro Sulu Sultanate, which gave Americans control over foreign relations while the Moros were allowed full control over their internal affairs, in effect an American protectorate. The Moros were fine with this, and went about their business until America violated the treaty in 1903 and started war against the Moros. America was the ine who unilaterally abrogated the Bates Treaty, which they signed and promised to uphold. The Americans committed many atrocities on civilians like the Bud Dajo massacre.
America then annexed the Moro lands into the Philippines commonwealth in violation of the Bates Treaty, and initiated a settlement program, involving Filipino Christians from Luzon and the Visayas colonizing resource rich Moro land in Mindanao. This continued down to this day, to the point where the tens of millions of Filipino colonists outnumber the Moro natives in Mindanao.
Although the main Moro rebellion ended in 1913, Moro insurgents continued to struggle and fight the Americans right up to World War 2, when the Japanese invaded Mindanao.
The Moros then turned their fight against Japan, inflicting severe losses on the Japanese and leading them into a new world of hurt. The Japanese combated the insurgency by masscring, torturing, and raping Moro civlians.
After World War 2 ended, America granted the Philippines independence, giving it the Moro lands it had annexed in violation of Bates Treaty.
During the reign of the Filipino dictator Marcos, a massive surge in Filipino Christian colonization on Mindanao took place in the 1960s. Today, Filipino colonists outnumber native Moros by tens of millions, This, combined with the Filipino armed forces massacre of Moros in the Jabidah massacre, led the Moros to revolt under the banner of the Moro National Liberation Front led by Nur Misuari.
The Philippines was extremely brutal in combating the insurgents. In 1974, the Philippine air forces bombed, razed, and burned Jolo to the ground, slaughtering tens of thousands of Moro and Chinese civilians. The Moro Mosque and Chinese Temple were both burned and blasted into oblivion.
The Philippines gave approval for Filipino Christian colonists to form the ilaga militia, an extremely brutal and violent paramilitary force which massacred, mutulated, and cannibilized Moro civilians. Ilaga members even killed an Italian Catholic Priest named Tullio Favali and ate his brains, his crime was sticking up for the indigenous peoples of Mindanao.
The Moros only fought against invaders who attacked them first, like the Spanish, Americans, Japanese, and Filipinos. They never laid a finger on non-Muslim Chinese, and in fact invited thousands of them to live among them in their cities, like Jolo.
The Moros in the MNLF received aid from Muammar Gaddafi’s LibyannMathaba organization, which also supported pagan and Christian separatist rebels in Indonesia like the Free Papua Movement, South Moluccan separatists, the East Timor FRETILIN (led by Arab Muslim Mari Alkatiri), and the Muslim Achenese, who all fought against the Indonesian government.
Since the Moros were allied to separaists in Indonesia, the Indonesian government has always supported the Philippines against the Moros. Indonesia tried to help Philippines enter the OIC, and the Moros in MNLF accused Indonesia of helping the Philippines stop Moro independence.
If you don’t know the history and geopolitics of the region, don’t make judgements based solely on people’s religion.
RodSerling says
Mazo,
“If you don’t know the history and geopolitics of the region, don’t make judgements based solely on people’s religion.”
Sounds sensible enough. However, your presentation is so obviously one-sided, why would anyone who doesn’t know about the history of this region accept your pro-Islamic argument in this case?
Let’s begin with your first paragraph:
“The Moros did not initiate the hostilities.”
They were “Moros” before the Muslims arrived? Surely you mean the people who lived there before the introduction of Islam, who were not “Moros” (Moors)–a much later appellation, obviously, applied by the Spanish.
“The Moro in Mindanao were converted to Islam by Karim al-Makhdum, who arrived on Mindanao in a Chinese junk.”
Lol. Amazing, I can just imagine it. This Arab trader just shows up, hands out Qur’ans, the Sira, samples from the Hadith, and the essentials of Islamic law, all translated accurately into the native language of course, and the natives say “Hey, we’ve read it. It’s brilliant! Of course we now believe in Allah and Muhammad. It’s all so clear and sensible. This is the most truthful, morally good totalitarian system that we’ve ever considered implementing. Let’s freely declare our conversion to Islam, given that we have studied the documents, we’ve had our most learned and trusted members review the materials for verification in their original Arabic, and our women are eager to get on with this business of wife-beating, polygamy, and sexual slavery. Our kids love frequent prayer and attending mosque. This is just damn good theology–just what we need, just what we’ve always wanted!” …And so it went, and they lived happily, until the Spanish arrived…
Or, perhaps they converted, or were converted, largely though means other than substantive persuasion.
“The Moros in Sulu were converted to Islam by Sultan Sharif ul-Hashim.”
How?
“They converted peacefully and mixed Islam with their local animism and Hindu-Buddhist teachings, following their Adat (custom) derived from animism.”
What do you mean they converted “peacefully”? How? They were “converted to Islam” by a powerful leader. In what sense is that peaceful?
I’ll readily admit that I don’t know much about the history of Islam in and around the Philippines, but what you presented looks to me like a one-sided fairy tale.
Mazo says
Its clear you know nothing about southeast asian history from your sarcastic incredulity and your immediate and asinine recourse to insulting Islam.
I said, that the Moros were not “good’ Muslims, as in not practicing Islam properly, like millions of other Muslims before modern times. Many non-Arab Muslims have something called “Adat” which means tradition, they keep and mix their pre-Islamic religion and culture with Islam, sometimes they don’t even know how to pray properly and worship spirits along with Allah.
The ordinary Moro civlian could not read Arabic, therefore they could not read the Qur’an and did not know the correct principles of their religion. Americans in the Philippines noted that the Moros worshipped spirits and did not know the propert five daily prayers.
In Indonesia, some Muslims still worship pagan volcano spirits, among them is the Sultan of Yogyakarta.
Moros would mix their previous animist and Hindu-Buddhist practices with Islam. They used to call their Islamic teachers Pandita, which is the name of a Hindu caste, and they use Hindu-Buddhist ideas like Agama, karma and Sulga.
Islam also spready very slowly among the Moro ethnic groups in Mindanao, over the course of 500 years, Islam spread among Tausug and Maguindanaons first and then later to the Maranaw several hundred years later. The Maguindanaon Sultanate at one point ruled the entire Mindanao, yet the Lumads remained animist.
RodSerling says
Mazo,
“Its clear you know nothing about southeast asian history from your sarcastic incredulity and your immediate and asinine recourse to insulting Islam.”
Lol. I just find it incredible that Islam, even gradually and partially over a long evolution, was accepted by most people there based purely on people considering its contents. Are you attempting to suggest that in this particular geographical region, unlike other geographical regions, no force was ever used in the conversion process? No coercion from the authorities? Not even social pressure, such as intermarriages etc. where one partner pressures the other to adopt the religion, or where children are instructed in, and pressured to adopt, the parents’ beliefs?
Do you have references to reliable sources to back up what you are implying about no coercion, no pressure, etc. in the conversion process, in this region?
Mazo says
http://books.google.com/books?id=KzSjL7vxFpcC&pg=PA26&dq=southeast+asia+islam+traders+peaceful&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IrcPU_OZIcXJ0gH90oCADA&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=southeast%20asia%20islam%20traders%20peaceful&f=false
Sovereign Man says
Mazo, you are just another naive apologist. Filipino muslim terrorists attack civilians constantly, and wish to establish a caliphate. Just like muslim freaks everywhere. Your excuses for their violence and aggression are pathetic. The Thai muslim insurgency is the same. Are you going to blame that one Spaniards too?
Mazo says
MNLF proclaimed that their vision was the “Bangsamoro Republik”, with no mention of any Caliphate. Abu Sayyaf and others are different groups.
Philippine armed forces and militia attack civlians constantly.
I explained the situation in Thailand over here too.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/indonesia-armed-muslim-mob-blocks-construction-of-church
RodSerling says
Okay, Mazo,
thanks for the ref. I have read the section. It gives broad statements about how Islam might have been initially spread in Southeast Asia (broadly; it doesn’t get into detail about the Phillipines region in particular), and says there is “no evidence” of a large “invasion.” That’s possible, but I am skeptical. For example, there may be no evidence of a violent invasion yet; that is, there could have been violent invasions (including smaller incidents), but there is not yet evidence of that because there has not been enough original research into that question.
The writer makes an analogy between the way Hinduism and Buddhism are believed to have been spread to the region, then says Islam “may” have been spread the same way, i.e., through trade etc. That may be so. There is clearly evidence for trade. However, even if we assume that as established fact, that trade occurred in the process of bringing Islam to the Philippines, that does not negate the possibility of some more coercive methods also. Islam is not Hinduism or Buddhism.
Re the word “peaceful,” the word could imply not only that there were no outright battles, but that, as I suggested, there was no conflict whatsoever over religion, or in the transmission of the new religion. (I find that hard to believe). In addition, even if we limit the word peaceful to the absence of outright conflict, there still can be coercion, as I mentioned. The reason I expressed, in my mockery above, the notion that people simply read the texts and accepted Islam on that basis, is precisely because that notion is absurd. Hardly anyone ever converts to a religion in that manner, and it is hardly ever a full change at once. I think you might only see the kind of conversion that I lampooned, perhaps, rarely among students of religious studies whose activities include poring over endless amounts of religious text. In reality, people adopt religious ideas not through the immediate transmission of whole doctrines but mainly through social influences and pressures, such as intermarriage, parent-to-child transmission, and from governer/ruler to the governed/ruled. The growth of Islam in the Philippines regions, prior to the invasions and problems caused by the Spanish and others historically, was I suspect due to these kinds of social pressures and influences. After the introduction of elements of Islam conveyed by traders, and then with the influence of the Muslims who became rulers, the social influences and pressures I cited, plus high birthrates, could easily explain much of the growth of Islam in the region. With the Southeast Asia region in question being so far geographically from the center of the Islamic world, less orthodox more syncretic versions of Islam could develop. (That’s a trend will still see today, even with modern travel and communication: For the most part, Islam is less orthodox, less comprehensive, the further one goes from its center).
Semeru says
Rod
For example, there may be no evidence of a violent invasion yet; that is, there could have been violent invasions (including smaller incidents), but there is not yet evidence of that because there has not been enough original research into that question.
There is plenty of research about the spread of islam in Indonesia, but it is not in the interest this sites owner or the majority of the commentators here.
So Rod, it might be important to remember that although Indonesia has been an integral part of the Islamic world, it has never been part of any larger Islamic polity
Sultan Agung sent to Mecca for a title, numerous Indonesian pilgrims and scholars visited the Hijaz, and pleas were made at various times for military help from the Ottomans, but Indonesia was never conquered, ruled, or colonized by an outside Muslim power. Nor was there ever any form of trans- Asian or even Indonesian
polity that could be deemed Islamic. Also, though Indonesian Muslim have historically had some interest in the concept of a caliphate, looking with concern on the abolition of the institution by Ataturk in 1924, they have since at least the 1930s been more interested in Indonesian independence and unity.
RodSerling says
Semeru,
“So Rod, it might be important to remember that although Indonesia has been an integral part of the Islamic world, it has never been part of any larger Islamic polity”
Well, in recent times, with the advance of modern communications and travel, there is more connection between Muslims in Indonesia (and other SE Asian countries) and outside of it than ever before. When we look at the poll results (e.g., see Pew and others) on opinions about various aspects of Islam, it seems about roughly half of Indonesian Muslims have adopted more “orthodox” views, i.e., views similar to those of Muslims closer to the center of the Muslim world. Also, there are Islamic organizations such as the OIC which bring together Muslims from wide-ranging places in common interests and causes.
While SE Asia as a major region was not invaded by major jihad campaigns from outside the region, there does seem to have been plenty of jihad activity within the region, with jihadists attacking and converting non-Muslims.
Re Sultan Agung, M. A. Khan, in his book “Islamic Jihad”, p. 142, writes:
“[…]Prof. Anthony Reid, who thinks that ‘Islam was more egalitarian’ in Southeast Asia, notes: ‘Malaya lost much of its population as a result of the campaigns (by Muslim ruler) of Aceh in the period of 1618–24.’clxxxiv Similarly, when Sultan Agung of Mataram, hailed as a great Muslim monarch of Southeast Asia, besieged Surabaya and its nearby towns with 80,000 troops for five years (1620–25), his troops devastated all the rice crops and even poisoned water and stopped its flow to the city by damming up the river. Consequent to these campaigns, all but 500 of the 50,000–60,000 inhabitants remained there; the rest had died or left the city from the resulting misery and famine.clxxxv
Moreover, wars waged by Muslim rulers in Southeast Asia appeared to have aimed at mass conversion of the people by force. For example, in the sixteenth century, the Makassarese of Sulawesi were prominent amongst those resisting Islam. The Muslim ruler of Makassar, says the local chronicle of Bulo-bulo (Sindjai region), invited the recalcitrant Makassarese to accept Islam and threatened war if refused. A prominent Makassarese leader ‘defiantly declared that he would not bow to Islam
even if the rivers flowed with blood, as long as there were pigs to eat in the forests of Bulo-bulo. Miraculously, the story goes, all the pigs disappeared that very night, so the chief and all his men were obliged to convert.’clxxxvi One would be credulous in the extreme to believe that the pigs disappeared just like that miraculously. What, in actuality, might have led to mass conversion of the Makassarese is the threat of violence or a real war. […]”
M. A. Khan also writes about the spread of Islam in the Philippines region (p. 138):
” The Muslim region of the Philippines, comprising the Mindanao and Sulu Islands, is another example where Islam, claim Muslims and many scholars, was spread peacefully by traders. Which Muslim army went to the Philippines to spread Islam by the sword, ask Muslims? It was Muslim traders and Sufis coming from India and the Malay Peninsula spread Islam there, they claim, through peaceful missionary activity.
Islam was allegedly brought to the Sulu Archipelago of the Southern Philippines by Arab trader Makhdum Karim in 1380. He settled there and constructed a mosque—the oldest mosque in the region. But conversion of the largely Animist Filipinos to Islam on a large scale did not occur until the Malacca Sultanate gained political ascendancy in the Malay Peninsula and Indonesian Archipelago. In the 1450s, Shari’ful Hashem Syed Abu Bakr, a Malaysia’s Johore-born Arab warrior, sailed with a force northward from Borneo to the Sulu Islands and founded the Sultanate of Sulu in 1457. With the force of Islamic political power, the conversion of the Animist population to Islam began in real earnest. By the end of the fifteenth century, forward Jihad from Sulu, patronized by the Borneo Sultanate, had brought most of Visayas (Central Philippines), half of Luzon (Northern Philippines) and the islands of Mindanao in the south under Muslim control. Continued incursions by Muslim Jihadis intensified the spread of Islam among the terrified Animist populace. Following the trail of Muslim holy warriors, Islam spread from Sulu to Mindanao and reached the Manila area by 1565.
The local Filipinos organized into small Barangays—groups based on village or tribal community—offered sporadic and feeble resistance against well-organized Muslim incursions. The arrival of the Spanish colonists in the Cebu Islands in 1521, from where they slowly expanded their control over the Philippines, eventually halted the further spread of Islam. By this time, a major section of the Animist population of Southern Philippines had been converted to Islam. When the Spaniards spread their political control over Filipino islands, the Animist population, threatened
and brutalized by the Muslim warriors, did not offer much resistance to the new imperialists. But the Muslim-held islands offered fierce, protracted resistance.clxxvi The native forces allied with the Spaniards tried to take control of Muslim-held islands but failed. The Spanish occupiers, however, rolled back the rival Muslim
invaders from some areas and sealed off the further territorial expansion and spread of Islam. Mindanao and the Sulu Archipelago, which had been thoroughly Islamized, remained under Muslim control and remain Islamic till today.”
Mazo says
Are you kidding me? Using M. A. Khan as a source? The guy who works with Ali Sina and other propagandists whose sole aim is to insult Muslims?
How about actual, neutral sources written by Filipino Catholics THEMSELVES on Islam in the Philippines, like this?
http://books.google.com/books?id=xiOQdEzgP9kC&pg=PA45#v=onepage&q&f=false
M. A. Khan speaks complete BS about state sponsored “Jihad” from
Malaya and Brunei, and completely omits the fact that it was non-Muslim China, which patronized and protected the Muslim Sultanates like Malacca, Brunei, and Sulu. In fact, the current Malay Sultans still wear yellow robes, copied from the Emperor of China.
China encouraged the Sultanates to spread and protected them from outside attacks. China was the one who released the Malacca Sultanate from Thai (Ayutthaya) overlordship), and stopped Thai attacks on the Malays.
Sulu did not sponser the conversion of the Maynila Kingdom to Islam. Brunei did, and the Maynila Tagalog King Rajah Sulayman resisted the Spanish.
The animist Igorots in the Cordillera mountains offered fierce resistance to Spain and forced conversion to Catholicism, and were only brought under state control by the Americans. In fact, both Igorots and Moros are often insulted and looked down upon by racist Filipinos.
M. A. khan’s claims are full of errors and outright BS. For one, the Spanish sponsored explorer Magellan only arrived in the Cebu area of the Philippines for the first time in 1521- but Spain did not commence colonization of the Philippines until 1570 when Miguel López de Legazpi arrived, and attacked Rajah Sulayman.
And for another example of his BS about native animists accepting Spanish protection, Magellan and his Spanish crew in 1521 were actually attacked by the native, non-Muslim animist natives of Cebu, and Magellan was killed.
Islam did not spread through jihad and violence in the Philippines. M.A. Khan appears to be a fomer Muslim from India, Bangladesh, or Pakistan, and is wrongly projection Indian history onto southeast asian history. Khan is also not a qualified historian in the area, I just ripped up his claims above as easily as a piece of wet paper.
Mazo says
Moro raids on Barangays did not occur until after Spain colonized the Philippines and started to try to conquer the Moros, launching attacks on Sulu and Mindanao. The Moros then began raiding Spanish colonized areas, paying the Spanish back with whatever Spain tried to do to them.
Spain practiced slavery of non-Catholics, racist casta system against natives, forced conversion, Inquisition, institutionalized female violence and rape through machismo, unprovoked colonization…..
RodSerling says
Mazo,
Your own source confirms M. A. Khan’s contention that there were jihadist slave-raiding expeditions against non-Muslims. Ripped apart his arguments? I’m not seeing it. Chinese patronage of jihads and Sultanates does not negate the existence of jihads and Sultanates.
M. A. Khan is citing reputable historians. “Insulting Islam” is Khan’s and Sina’s “sole aim”? That suggests you are not carefully characterizing the views of others.
Mazo says
When did I say slavery did not exist in Moro lands? I said both Spain and Moros practiced it. If Moros forcibly converted pagans to Islam, then they can’t be enslaved anymore. There was no jihad and forced conversion.
I ripped apart M. A. Khan’s claims about Moro “jihad” to spread Islam and his claims that the animists accepted Spanish rule because of Muslim attacks.
First of all, he got the dates totally wrong, confusing Magellan’s discovery of the Philippines in 1521 to Legazpi’s colonization in 1570. Secondly, the animists did not welcome the Spanish as he claims, instead, the natives killed Magellan and attacked his crew, and fought back and fought against Legazpi as well.
The Kingdom of Maynila converted to Islam peacefully, there is no evidence of forced conversion or invasion by Sulu.
Spain legalized enslavements of non-Catholics in the Philippines, and also practiced mass plantation chattel slavery in other colonies like Cuba. I already mentioned Moro slavery and told people not to give me that cr*p since Spain practiced it too.
gravenimage says
Reams more bs from Mazo.
The fact is that the Jihad in the Philippines is very much along the lines of the Jihad in Thailand, which has a very different history.
The only thing they really have in common is that Muslims are waging violent Jihad against Infidels and rejecting all Infidel laws—which is the *norm* with Muslims.
Mazo says
And instead of addressing what I said about Thailand over here, gravenimage starts another round of ad hominem attacks.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/indonesia-armed-muslim-mob-blocks-construction-of-church
Semeru says
Rod with all due respect M A Khan is not a very reliable source
Re Sultan Agung, M. A. Khan, in his book “Islamic Jihad”, p. 142, writes:
Prof. Anthony Reid, who thinks that ‘Islam was more egalitarian’ in Southeast Asia, notes: ‘Malaya lost much of its population as a result of the campaigns (by Muslim ruler) of Aceh in the period of 1618–24
Yes this is true but Khan does not mention that the malays had already converted to islam, also Khan fails miserable to name the muslim ruler.
Iskandar Muda was the twelfth Sultan of Aceh
Iskandar Muda against Portuguese Malacca, Johor Sultanate, and other Malay sultanates and states in Sumatra and Malay Peninsula.
The conflicts between Aceh and Johor and Portuguese Melacca, had nothing to do with the spread of islam, and everything to do with controlling the spice trade, as well as betel nuts, whose narcotic properties bypassed the Muslim prohibition of alcohol.
One more thing that Khan grossly overlooks, Is, Iskandar Muda’s reign was also marked by considerable brutality, directed at disobedient subjects. He also did not hesitate to execute wealthy subjects and confiscate their wealth. Punishments for offenses were gruesome; a French visitor in the 1620s reported “every day the King would have people’s noses cut off, eyes dug out, castrations, feet cut off, or hands, ears, and other parts mutilated, very often for some very small matter
Similarly, when Sultan Agung of Mataram, hailed as a great Muslim monarch of Southeast Asia, besieged Surabaya and its nearby towns with 80,000 troops for five years (1620–25), his troops devastated all the rice crops and even poisoned water and stopped its flow to the city by damming up the river. Consequent to these campaigns, all but 500 of the 50,000–60,000 inhabitants remained there; the rest had died or left the city from the resulting misery and famine.
Once again this had nothing to do with the spread of Islam, because Surabaya had already been a Sultanate for a least 100 years before these campaigns. He took Surabaya so as to consolidate his power
It the Sultan Agung had any intention of advancing islam then he would have marched east of Surabaya and attacked the Hindu Kingdom of Blambangun, But he stopped short at Pasuran
Interestingly, it is not until the conquest of Blambangun do we find evidence of islamization. And the invasion was not lead by the Javanese, but by the Dutch who used muslims from Madura and Surabaya to destroy the Bali controlled Blambangun.
Then Khan M. A. Khan also writes about the spread of Islam in the Philippines region and mentions Shari’ful Hashem Syed Abu Bakr, a Malaysia’s Johore-born and claims he was an Arab warrior.
After doing a deep google search, very little turns up about Shari’ful Hashem Syed Abu Bakr, and there is nothing to indicate that he was a warrior or he lead a Jihad. Further Khan does not give any references to support his claim, Taking into consideration he was very misleading about Sultan Agung and Iskandar Muda, then I have every reason to believe he is also fabricating facts about “Sharif ul-Hāshim of Sulu”
Semeru says
According I Hikayat Banger, the chronicle I Banjarmasin (Indonesia) dating mid-seventeenth century, `- Islarnization I Banjarmasin was effectively determined when opposing claimants to the throne decided on single combat – avoid a civil war This again proves that Muslm rulers I Southeast Asia waged wars for express purpose converting – subdued people; when they won, conversion masses was a compulsion, not a choice.(khan does not give any source to this claim) Based on such examples, argues MC Rickleis, ‘Conversion by arms may have occurred (in Java) when a Muslim dignitary defeated a non-Muslim, whereupon – vanquished his people would presumably embrace Islam.
http://goo.gl/5VW5gf
The if we go back to page 138 – 141 where Khan writes
But conversion of the largely Animist Filipinos to Islam on a large scale did not occur until the Malacca Sultanate gained political ascendancy in the Malay Peninsula and Indonesian Archipelago. In the 1450s, Shari’ful Hashem Syed Abu Bakr, a Malaysia’s Johore-born Arab warrior, sailed with a force northward from Borneo to the Sulu Islands and founded ………
He does not give one single reference
http://goo.gl/QALtES
RodSerling says
Semeru and Mazo,
Thanks for persisting with this discussion. I think M. A. Khan would be interested in your criticisms. I suggest you contact him and give him the link to this thread.
Semeru,
-regarding citations for some of M. A. Khan’s claims, in my opinion he’s writing far too loosely in those sections, without showing the support for each individual claim. That may be a stylistic choice, I don’t know. I think that what he’s written in that section is based on the sources he cites in that section, and on others that are in his bibliography. I don’t think he would make anything up as you suggest.
-you write: “Once again this had nothing to do with the spread of Islam, because Surabaya had already been a Sultanate for a least 100 years before these campaigns. He took Surabaya so as to consolidate his power”
Consolidating power does have to do with non-peaceful means of establishing, reestablishing, and reinforcing Islam. That can be an effect, even if that is not the primary intent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharif_ul-H%C4%81shim_of_Sulu
http://www.ranaocouncil.com/history/?id=9
“Sharif ul-Hashim[2] (reigned around 1450–1480) was the regal name of Sayyed Abubakar Abirin.[1] He was an Arab[2] – Muslim explorer and founder of the Sultanate of Sulu. He assumed the political and spiritual leadership of the realm, and was given the title Sultan, and also the first Sultan of Sulu.
During his reigning era when he promulgated the first Sulu Code of Laws called “Diwan” that were based on Quran. He introduced Islamic Political Institution and the consolidation of Islam as state religion.[1]”
Perhaps he was like the original Abu Bakr, consolidating Islam through jihad.
Mazo,
“When did I say slavery did not exist in Moro lands? I said both Spain and Moros practiced it. If Moros forcibly converted pagans to Islam, then they can’t be enslaved anymore. There was no jihad and forced conversion.”
If a slave must be converted to Islam to be freed, then that is again a form of coercion. It is a consequence of the raids to obtain non-Muslim slaves.
“First of all, he got the dates totally wrong, confusing Magellan’s discovery of the Philippines in 1521 to Legazpi’s colonization in 1570.”
I don’t think so. I think he was just speaking imprecisely. Introduction of Christianity began in 1521, and that is when some might consider the cultural component of colonization to have been initiated. Even the Wikipedia entry for Cebu states:
“The arrival of Portuguese explorer Ferdinand Magellan in 1521 established a period of Spanish exploration and colonization.[10][11]”
“Secondly, the animists did not welcome the Spanish as he claims, instead, the natives killed Magellan and attacked his crew, and fought back and fought against Legazpi as well.”
Kahn didn’t actually claim they were “welcomed.” However, Magellan does seem to have been friendly with the King of Cebu and the people there, and established an allegiance with them. Then Magellan got into a conflict with a rival of the King of Cebu, the King of Mactan. Mactan is a neighboring island where Magellan is believed to have been killed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cebu
RodSerling says
p.s. my comment re Sharif ul-Hashim is a separate point but is relevant to the issue of consolidation and the use of force.
Mazo says
Again you jump to totally bizarre conclusions and claims. Sharif ul-Hashem Abu Bakr did not do any Jihad, read the source again.
http://books.google.com/books?id=xiOQdEzgP9kC&pg=PA44#v=onepage&q&f=false
RodSerling says
Mazo, relax, I didn’t make a conclusion on that.
Semeru says
Rod
Thanks for persisting with this discussion. I think M. A. Khan would be interested in your criticisms. I suggest you contact him and give him the link to this thread.
By persisting with this discussion You, Mazo and Myself may have all learnt something
It is interesting to note that DDA and GI have not been able to contribute anything.
Also I do not think M A Khan would take to kindly to criticisms, and would prefer to stay quite.
Khan completely over looks much of the history of Islamization of Indonoesia, this is because he is sensationalist, he makes no mention of the First Javanese Sultanate (Demak) or no mention of Ali Mughayat Syah the first sultan of Aceh, or of his military campaigns to dominate the northern part of Sumatra.
No Khan wades in with the brutal Siege of Surabaya
Other more pedagogical works of the early Mataram court Writers, such as Sera! Manikmala and Sera: Nirlsruti. have an even more un-compromising Hindu-Javanese character. The pudjangga, the court scholars, in contrast to contemporary Islam-oriented writers who spent their intellectual efforts on Koranic commentaires and narratives with Islamic themes and morals, seldom mentioned the Koran but drew instead on the hindu epics Ramayana and Mahabharata.
This religious syncretism shocked the more faithful among the Islamic leaders and learned men.The coastal rulers ln their struggle with Mataram invoked a religiously pure Islam as a rallying standard, especially against Sultan Agung (1613-1646) and his successors. Religious teachers traveled through villages in central Java preaching against the Sultan.
The Mataram rulers in their turn invoked the glory of the madjapahit and at various times persecuted, even slew wholesale, numbers of local orthodox Moslem teachers. The fight was long and bitter and reportedly reduced large areas of East Java to near depopulation. Finally, in 1625, Sultan Agung Matarem destroyed Surabaja, the last of the coastal ports to hold out.From being the major sea in the archipelago, Java in a few decades was reduced to using foreign bottoms to transport rice from one place to another along its northern cont. The Mataram rulers seemed determined to profit from the lesson of Madjapehit.
This victory did not end the struggle between Mataram and East Java. Sultan Agung’s successor continued his policy of assassinations of the remaining East Javanese leaders as well as his persecution of local Mataram orthodox religious leaders. A rebellion against the oppressive rule of Mataram developed throughout east Java in 1675, the rebellion in which the famous Trunsdiedja was involved, though he was by no means the sole leader.
Again,Islam was an important rallying standard for the rebels against the syncretist rulers of Mataram.
http://books.google.co.id/books?id=13PoxT8kufEC&pg=PA514&lpg=PA514&dq=Sultanate+of+Mataram+islam&source=bl&ots=cO3nOEFuqg&sig=3EBb6iswFOShWIeMGdCNRRkFs_I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SAATU47uOY6WrAfCpYHICw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
RodSerling says
Thanks, Semeru.
I think M. A. Khan did not intend to go into much depth re SE Asia. This is all very interesting. Thanks for the ref.
dumbledoresarmy says
I observe that ‘mazo’ is here, busy throwing sand; trying to obscure the Big Picture.
Bottom line is that the way the Muslims conduct their war for supremacy in the Philippines is exactly the same as the way that Muslims *everywhere* attack nonMuslims, and have always done so.
And their society is as sick as that of every other Muslim society everywhere.
There is a book called “They Fought Alone,” by John Keats and published in 1963. Back in 2009, a fellow poster here read the book. This is what he learned from it, and shared with the rest of us:
‘He [Keats] relates the reality of native Moro (Filipino Muslim) relations with all non-Muslims.
“These hill Moros …live according to the Koran as interpreted by some illiterate, flea-bitten imam who heard from some crooked hadji what was supposed to be in the Holy Book.
“What they get out of it boils down to polygamy, slavery and brutality.” (pg. 56).
There it is:
“Polygamy, slavery and brutality”.
Islam in a nutshell.
That is: normative Islam, Islam-by-the-book. That author got only one thing wrong – he assumed that the Moros
[‘Moors’ – and why would the Spanish and Portuguese call them that? – because they recognised a similarity between these people and those who had invaded and ruinated the Iberian peninsula for centuries – a similarity based on ideology, not ethnicity – dda]
and their imams were getting Islam wrong, somehow.
They *weren’t*. The polygamy, slavery and brutality are right there in ‘the book’ – in the Koran, Sira and Hadith, in the four schools of Sharia ‘law” (or, from the point of view of the rest of humanity, Unlaw or Antilaw).
The beheadings, the mutilatings, the kidnappings and holdings to ransom, the cowardly attacks upon unarmed civilians, the ambushes, the raids, the attacks upon churches, the playing of the goodcop-badcop game…all, all, all of it, visible there in the southern Philippines, is nothing but Islam, Islam, Islam.
Mazo himself is defending Islam by attempting to maintain the veil of confusion; blowing clouds and clouds of smoke.
If the Muslims in the southern Philippines were given total dominance and permitted to secede; if they were allowed to create an Islamic state, as the Muslims in India got an Islamic state, then in due course of time that Islamic state would become *hell on earth* for any non-Muslims who were foolish enough to remain within it; the Muslims would abuse and attack and persecute and kill them or drive them out; and it wouldn’t stop there, either; for that piece of turf, carved off from the rest of the Philippines, would sooner or later be used as a springboard for *more* jihad against the *rest* of the Philippines. *That* is the way Islam works. That is the SOP of the Ummah or Mohammedan Mob, the Allah Gang, the Empire of Islam.
If the non-Muslim Filipinos want peace, then they have to do one of two things. They have to either drive *every last Muslim* out of *all* of the Philippines (including Mindanao) into 85 percent Muslim Indonesia, and then reinhabit the non-Muslim turf, and create an iron wall between it and Muslim Indonesia. Or they have to cut their losses: give the Muslims Mindanao, but withdraw from it *all* non-Muslims…and evict from the *rest* of the Philippines – from *every* majority-non-Muslim part of the Philippines – *every last Muslim* and *raze any mosques to the ground*. And then, again, **fortify the border and prepare to resolutely defend it into the foreseeable future**. Because Muslims, always and everywhere, sooner or later, *attack* their non-Muslim neighbours.
Mazo says
“The beheadings, the mutilatings, the kidnappings and holdings to ransom, the cowardly attacks upon unarmed civilians, the ambushes, the raids”
Sounds just like what Filipino colonialists have been doing to Moro civilians. Care to comment on the Filipino militia men who ate the brain of the Italian Catholic priest?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilaga
I have read accounts of westerners who traveled to non-Muslim parts of asia, and spew the exact same racist crap about Chinese, South Asians, southeast asians- nothing new to see.
Polygamy and slavery were also common to the pre-Islamic cultures in southeast asia. Chinese and Moros practiced both. And slavery was also used by the Spanish, Spain legalized enslavement of non-Catholics, their brutal plantation slavery persisted in Cuba into the 19th century. Brutality exists in every single culture (ever heard of the Inquisition in Spain? Witch burning at stake?)
Moros preserve Hindu-Buddhist-animist influences while Filipino Catholics preserve almost none, due the fact that Moros were converted peacefully while Filipinos were converted by racist Spanish bigots by the sword, who highly despised paganism and non westerners.
Moro Muslims didn’t call their religious scholars Mullahs, in fact, they call them “Pandita”, after the Hindu caste, a leftover from Hindu influence. Moros also use the words Agama, Karma, and other Hindu Buddhist words. They also used to pray to spirits as recently as the early 20th century.
And actually it was the Catholic parts of the Philippines which were “hell on earth” for the non-Catholic Chinese, who were repeatedly subjected to constant kidnapping, ransom, and murder, by criminal gangs who were supported by the Filipino police and military.
http://books.google.com/books?id=eoq6AAAAIAAJ&q=Between+1+99+1+and+1994,+there+was+a+dramatic+increase+in+the+number+of+ethnic+Chinese+kidnapped+for+ransom+in+the+Philippines+by+criminal+syndicates+allegedly+linked+to+corrupt+army+and+police+officials.+Unlike+the+Federation,+which+kept+a+…&dq=Between+1+99+1+and+1994,+there+was+a+dramatic+increase+in+the+number+of+ethnic+Chinese+kidnapped+for+ransom+in+the+Philippines+by+criminal+syndicates+allegedly+linked+to+corrupt+army+and+police+officials.+Unlike+the+Federation,+which+kept+a+…&hl=en&sa=X&ei=iYsOU_ilE8Xp0AHItICoBQ&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA
http://books.google.com/books?id=lISGiGDW2Z0C&pg=PA128#v=onepage&q&f=false
The Filipino military then turned the entire city of Jolo in a hell on Earth in 1974, destroying the sacred Chinese Temple and the Mosque and bathing the city with the blood of tens of thousands of Moro and Chinese civilians.
Non-Muslim Chinese have lived with, intermarried, and fought alongside Moro Muslims in Sulu and Mindanao for 600 years already, and don’t need a racist bigot to tell them where they should and shouldn’t live.
http://books.google.com/books?id=wvkMAQAAMAAJ&q=The+juramentado's+act+was+occasionally+performed+against+the+Japanese+during+World+War+1+1+—and+the+Japanese+were+clearly+defined+as+enemies.+The+juramentado+never+went+after+Chinese+residents+in+spite+of+the+fact+that+the+Chinese+were+non-Muslim.&dq=The+juramentado's+act+was+occasionally+performed+against+the+Japanese+during+World+War+1+1+—and+the+Japanese+were+clearly+defined+as+enemies.+The+juramentado+never+went+after+Chinese+residents+in+spite+of+the+fact+that+the+Chinese+were+non-Muslim.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BNkpUqeuCIe54APy-YDYDQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ
The Philippine state also has a reputation for treating the indigenous animist populations like America infamously treated its Native Americans. The animist Lumads in Mindanao are discriminated against by the Filipinos and so are Igorots in the Cordilleras. Filipinos dismiss them as “head hunting” “savages” (whilst ignoring the activities of their own cannibalistic, beheading Ilaga militia).
I have great respect for those Catholic Priests and Nuns like Tullio Favali and Dorothy Stang, who stood up for the rights of indigenous peoples, and people like Mother Theresa, I myself was educated at Catholic school for most of my childhood.
There was a Syrian Arab Christian, Dr. Najeeb Saleeby, who emigrated to America and served as a medic in the US Army. He was stationed in Mindanao and eventually grew fascinated with Moro language, culture, and history, writing several books on their history and language, and seeking to help educate Moros. He was often overruled by his superiors in his efforts to protect the Moros from abuses by the American colonial authorities. I don’t know whether he was Orthodox or Catholic but I do know someone intelligent, neutral and educated, for he not only lived among the Moros but also learned how to read, speak, and write their languages.
I suggest anyone interested in Moro culture read Saleeby’s works.
A Filipino Catholic, Ernesto M. Espaldon, wrote “With the bravest: the untold story of the Sulu freedom fighters of World War II”, about Moro freedom fighters who fought the Japanese.
Dr. Samuel K. Tan is a mixed Chinese-Moro and a historian on Philippine history, his books are also worth a shot.
And FYI there is no “good cop” “bad cop” game going on. The reason that there are different Moro rebel groups splintering off, is due to ethnic lines and ideology. One faction of MNLF is made out of Tausug Muslims, another MNLF faction has Maranaw Muslims, MILF is made out of Maguindanaon Muslims. MNLF, led by Professor Nur Misuari, was allied to Libya and the MILF accused them of being Marxists or at least being leftists, since it was during the Cold War and leftist revolutionary ideology was popular internationally, especially with Gaddafi’s allies.
The Tausugs and Maguindanaons historically lived in different islands and states, the Tausugs lived on the Sulu archipelago in the Sulu Sultanate, the Maguindanaons live in the Sultanate of Maguindanao on Mindanao.
And just so you know, neither the Philippine military nor the Liberation Fronts are getting anywhere militarily. There has also been a Communist insurgency in the Philippines for decades The reason why there has been a military stalemate in fighting the Communist insurgents is because of massive levels of corruption in the Philippine military.
Indonesia is not an Islamic state. It is a Javanese dominated state. In the transmigration program, Javanese, Madurese, and Balinese benefited at the expense of Malay Muslims, Dayak animists, Moluccan and West Papuan animists and Christians. Malay Muslims and Dayaks both lashed out jointly against Madurese Muslim immigrants.
Many of the Indonesian settlers on East Timor, were Balinese Hindus and Javanese Catholics. While the East Timorese FRETILIN separatists were led by Arab Muslim Mari Alkatiri.
East Timor frankly needs to build a sea wall against Australia, not the Philippines, because they are in real danger of getting their natural gas stolen.
Mazo says
And speaking of brutality, since when did Moros need lectures from
Spaniards and Portuguese on bruality?
The Portuguese were the epitome of brutality towards the Malays in Malacca in 1511, but the Chinese gave the Portuguese a harsh lesson for doing so.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/indonesia-armed-muslim-mob-blocks-construction-of-church
And Spain….. I need not mention how Spain treated Filipinos themselves and their other colonial subjects, setting up a racist Casta system with categories like Peninsulares, Creole, Mestizo, and
Indio.
http://aboutphilippines.ph/filer/Spanish-Colonial-Caste-System-in-the-Philippines.pdf
And the Spanish brutal behavior towards Filipino and Amerindian women left the legacy of Machismo. Spanish friars would *rape and impregnate Filipino women.
http://books.google.com/books?id=zN7-s84jAkoC&pg=PT44#v=onepage&q&f=false
More accounts on how Spaniards viewed Filipino women
http://kardo.tripod.com/machismo.htm
Jay Boo says
1492 the Spaniards sent Islam back to Satan.
Unfortunately the newly free tainted Spaniards were still reeling under the filthy influence of a long occupation by their occupiers and they copied some of the Muslim’s disgusting warfare tactics.
Mazo says
So if Italy attacks Gambia, then should Gambia bomb Poland back to the stone age, because Poland is a Catholic nation like Italy?
If Spain and Portugal had a problem with Andalusi Arabs and Berbers, is there some reason they went to the other side of the globe in order to slaughter and colonize totally unrelated people?
Dirka Dirka Mohammed Jihad says
The major problem being that Gambia’s Cessna cannot fly all the way to Poland to drop a bomb. Sorry.
Semeru says
DDA Truthbender by omission
There is a book called “They Fought Alone,” by John Keats and published in 1963. Back in 2009, a fellow poster here read the book. This is what he learned from it, and shared with the rest of us:
‘He [Keats] relates the reality of native Moro (Filipino Muslim) relations with all non-Muslims.
“These hill Moros …live according to the Koran as interpreted by some illiterate, flea-bitten imam who heard from some crooked hadji what was supposed to be in the Holy Book.
“What they get out of it boils down to polygamy, slavery and brutality.” (pg. 56).
Above DDA cites another posters comment and quotes one two lines from “They Fought Alone,” by John Keats ”
Now if DDA had read the book herself she would have found that the book is about Lt. Col. Wendell W. Fertig who held a U.S. Army reserve commission and was called into military service before the war in the Pacific began. Ordered from Corregidor before its surrender to the Japanese, he was sent to Mindanao to assume command of engineer activities there. Almost as soon as he arrived, the U.S. Army forces on Mindanao surrendered, but Fertig refused to do so. Fertig used his knowledge of the Filipino people to organize them into a guerrilla army and civilian government. He also used his engineering knowledge to solve problems in supply and construction.
Fertig led the guerrillas against the Japanese and their collaborators, mostly in hit-and-run raids and vital coast watching activities. After making contact with U.S. forces in the Pacific, the guerrillas began to receive supplies, but never enough to stage large scale attacks
In September 1942 Capt. Luis Morgan, a former police officer who had become a guerrilla chieftain, offered the command of his forces to Fertig on condition that he become chief of staff with command in the field. Fertig accepted and established his base in the province of Misamis Occidental.
Once in command Fertig displayed an instinct for consolidating and expanding his control over the movement. After sending Morgan on a liaison mission to neighboring guerrilla commanders, Fertig negotiated an alliance with Morgan’s Moslem rivals, the fierce Moros of Lanao, and with the Catholic Church. Taking the rank of brigadier general to impress the Filipinos, he recruited and trained a force that even included an engineer corps, a commando school, and a makeshift navy. He installed a civilian government, drafted labor, and built a communications network. While consolidating his own organization, he also contacted other guerrilla leaders on Mindanao and nearby islands and, through persuasion and his assumed rank, brought many under his authority. Fertig frequently clashed with other equally ambitious chiefs, particularly Macario Peralta on Panay, but his leverage was greatly strengthened by the establishment of radio communication with the Southwest Pacific Theater in February 1943 and by MacArthur’s subsequent recognition of him as the military commander on Mindanao. As he received and distributed supplies, his authority expanded, and he divided Mindanao into geographic divisions, each under an American chief. By May Fertig’s army and government were operating openly to such an extent that life in the province had returned to prewar normality, except for the presence of fully uniformed guerrillas in the streets of Misamis City and on the waters of Panguil Bay.
Faced with an open challenge to their authority, the Japanese attacked in June, landing troops at several points along the Misamis coast and advancing from Panguil toward Pagadian Bay in an attempt to cut off Misamis Occidental from the rest of Mindanao. Although Fertig had laid plans for his troops to give ground and use hit-and-run raids against the Japanese flanks and rear, his forces quickly broke and ran in the face of the enemy onslaught. Fertig himself fled to Lanao Province, where he found refuge with the Moros and began rebuilding his guerrilla force. He maintained his support among the opportunistic Moro tribes in part through distribution of a Life magazine article in which King Ibn Saud of Saudi Arabia allied Islam with the United States. While with the Moros, Fertig had a final showdown with his chief of staff. Jealous of Fertig’s power and prestige in the movement, Morgan had been acting increasingly mutinous since the Japanese attack on Misamis. Fertig finally removed him from the picture by sending him on a seemingly prestigious mission to Australia.
http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/70-42/70-424.html
A person who can get the respect of moslems do not get it by referring to them as being taught by illiterate, flea-bitten imams.
Mazo says
I checked the quote on google. What I found is that dumbledoresarmy repeatedly spams the same block of quotes across different topics every time something even marginally related can come up.
And not only that, its apparent he didn’t read any of the actual books the quotes came from, only copying and pasting random snippets from other posters.
That poster dumbledoresarmy copied from, thors hammer or whatever his name was, apparently made a deliberate glaring ommision, the fact that the Moros fought the Japanese, claiming that only Filipinos and Americans were fighting Japan.
Meanwhile, East Timor is busy expanding ties with China as its relations with Australia are going downhill, Australia is just isolating itself from the world with its current policies, in fact, the current Abbott government has just angered East Timor, Indonesia, and China all at the same time, it will be a wonder if Australia has any friends left after this.
http://etan.org/estafeta/04/spring/1austral.htm
http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/01/23/timor-leste-australia-spying-oil-court/
Even former Singaporean PM Lee Kuan Yew called Australians the ‘white trash of asia’.
http://www.ucanews.com/news/australia-justifies-its-white-trash-of-asia-nickname/70324
Australia should worry about uplifting its own Aboriginal communities out of poverty, recognizing their language and giving them full rights to their lands, before lecturing other countries and trying to take their gas.
In addition to supporting West Papuan rebels, Gaddafi and the Acehnese also tried setting up an Australian Aboriginal separatist militant outfit. Australia is the ultimate transmigration project, where colonists outnumber the natives by a staggering number of over 20 million. Even the Philippines has yet to accomplish that ratio in Mindanao, but its getting very close. No wonder he supports the Philippines, while his country is doing the same thing.
Semeru says
Tracing the quote back to 2009 (She) only gave the quote and did not give credit to “Thors Hammer”. So the earliest source of the quote is from DDA
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/10/what-a-complete-infidel-needs-to-know-about-the-koran/comment-page-0#comment-607127
gravenimage says
Semeru wrote:
Tracing the quote back to 2009 (She) only gave the quote and did not give credit to “Thors Hammer”. So the earliest source of the quote is from DDA
……………………..
Good of you to have noted that, at least.
gravenimage says
Mazo wrote:
That poster dumbledoresarmy copied from, thors hammer or whatever his name was, apparently made a deliberate glaring ommision, the fact that the Moros fought the Japanese, claiming that only Filipinos and Americans were fighting Japan.
………………………….
What absolute crap. Dumbledore’s Army didn’t take this quote from some poster named “thors hammer”—and she has read all the source material she cites.
Odd, too, that you don’t consider the Moros to be Filipinos—most would, and would include any fighting the Moros did against the Japanese with that.
And the fact that they fought the Japanese tells us nothing substantive—Muslims would consider democratic Americans of a piece with tyrannical Tojo-era Japanese—all nothing but “filthy Kuffar”.
Mazo says
You just keep proving your deliberate mind bending ignorance with every sentence you make.
The Malays in British Malaya, and the Javanese in Indonesia collaborated with Japan. While Moros fought against the Japanese and choose not to serve as foot soldiers in the Japanese “Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere” because they already heard the same BS from the “democratic” (only for white people) American colonizers (who practiced Jim Crow, segregation, lynching, imperialism) when the Americans came to ‘liberate” the Philippines from Spain.
http://books.google.com/books?id=wvkMAQAAMAAJ&q=The+juramentado's+act+was+occasionally+performed+against+the+Japanese+during+World+War+1+1+—and+the+Japanese+were+clearly+defined+as+enemies.+The+juramentado+never+went+after+Chinese+residents+in+spite+of+the+fact+that+the+Chinese+were+non-Muslim.&dq=The+juramentado's+act+was+occasionally+performed+against+the+Japanese+during+World+War+1+1+—and+the+Japanese+were+clearly+defined+as+enemies.+The+juramentado+never+went+after+Chinese+residents+in+spite+of+the+fact+that+the+Chinese+were+non-Muslim.&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BNkpUqeuCIe54APy-YDYDQ&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ
“The juramentado’s act was occasionally performed against the Japanese during World War 1 1 —and the Japanese were clearly defined as enemies. The juramentado never went after Chinese residents in spite of the fact that the Chinese were non-Muslim.”
Moros do not consider themselves Filipino, because “Filipno” derives from the Spanish King Philip II, the King under which the Philippines was brutally colonized, and the Moros fought off the Spanish for 300 years.
Additionally, during Spanish rule, “Filipino” referred specifically to mestizos whose native mothers had born children (often out of wedlock) to Spanish friars, implying bastard parentage. Pure blooded natives were called “Indios”. “Filipino” only became a generic term for all the natives of the Philippines after America drove Spain out and colonized the islands.
It is for these reasons that Moros find the label “Filipino” as insulting. It implies 1. Being a bastard 2. Being a colonial subject.
Semeru says
Either DDA or Gravenimage are lying, or they are both lying
Truthbender GI quotes
What absolute crap. Dumbledore’s Army didn’t take this quote from some poster named “thors hammer”—and she has read all the source material she cites.
Further up in this thread Truthbenber DDA writes
There is a book called “They Fought Alone,” by John Keats and published in 1963. Back in 2009, a fellow poster here read the book. This is what he learned from it, and shared with the rest of us:
‘He [Keats] relates the reality of native Moro (Filipino Muslim) relations with all non-Muslims.
“These hill Moros …live according to the Koran as interpreted by some illiterate, flea-bitten imam who heard from some crooked hadji what was supposed to be in the Holy Book.
“What they get out of it boils down to polygamy, slavery and brutality.” (pg. 56).
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/philippines-frees-jihad-leader-to-make-peace-with-milf/comment-page-1#comment-1014352
Then again
Truthbender DDA wrote
Awhile ago (March 2 2009) a jihadwatch poster calling himself ‘Thor’s Hammer’ mentioned a book he had been reading which contained some observations on the nature of Islam in the southern Philippines.
I can’t provide a link, as that particular comment was posted using IntenseDebate and those comments did not ‘roll over’ along with the relevant article, when we went back from IntenseDebate to Typepad.
Luckily, I copied and saved the comment, so here it is.
“I am currently reading a book about the Filipino and American guerrilla resistance to the Japanese invasion of the Philippine Islands,specifically Mindanao, during WW2.
“Native Filipino and American soldiers who refused to surrender mounted a counterinsurgency against the brutal Japanese occupation of their island.
“Read all about their story in the book, “They Fought Alone,” by John Keats and published in 1963.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/philippines-jihad-against-loggers/comment-page-0#comment-678072
Also Truthbender DDA again wrote
Two years ago, in the comments to another story about jihad in the Philippines, a jihadwatcher calling himself ‘Thor’s Hammer’ shared with us a very telling passage from a book that he was reading, about 1940s Philippines.
He said:
“I am currently reading a book about the Filipino and American guerrilla resistance to the Japanese invasion of the Philippine Islands,specifically Mindanao, during WW2.
“Native Filipino and American soldiers who refused to surrender mounted a counterinsurgency against the brutal Japanese occupation of their island.
“Read all about their story in the book, “They Fought Alone,” by John Keats and published in 1963.
“He relates the reality of native Moro (Filipino Muslim) relations with all non-Muslims.
“These hill Moros …live according to the Koran as interpreted by some illiterate, flea-bitten imam who heard from some crooked hadji what was supposed to be in the Holy Book. What they get out of it boils down to polygamy, slavery and brutality.” (pg. 56)”.
END QUOTE AND COMMENT.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/08/philippines-milf-gets-a-divorce/comment-page-0#comment-814259
This only goes to show she does not read all the source material she cites.
Dirka Dirka Mohammed Jihad says
Does anyone else find any humor in the insurgents’ group name acronym? If they truly were MILFs then there would be no problem.
RodSerling says
While I await Mazo’s responses to my questions above, I note that above he is suggesting that the Phillipines is not “justified in its war against the Moros Muslims.”
Since Mazo seems knowledgeable of the region, I would ask how he would explain this lack of justification with regard to the following points re the MILF, which I gleaned from a brief introductory summary, which taken together add up to serious trouble:
-mounted guerrilla warfare against the Philippine government
-engaged in “hit-and-run warfare”
-has been funded by al-Qaeda
-some of its leaders trained in al-Qaeda training camps
-was connected to Gaddafi
-committed acts of violence against civilian targets
-destroyed infrastructure
http://www.scribd.com/doc/101616779/Historical-Dictionary-of-the-Philippines
Historical Dictionary of the Philippines
by Artemio R Guillermo
…and that, I suspect, is merely the tip of the iceberg. How then is the Philippines not justified in dealing militarily with such a militant group?
Mazo says
The Moro insurgency broke out after a massive wave of Filipino Christian colonists from the Visayas were settled on Mindanao by the Dictator Marcos in the 1960s, theft of Mindanao’s mineral resources, and most importantly, because of the 1968 Jabidah massacre of Moros by the Philippine armed forces.
After the massacre, Professor Nur Misuari founded the Moro National Liberation Front (MNLF) to fight the Philippine government of Dictator Marcos.
The Philippines then armed cannibalistic Filipino Christian settlers called Ilaga, who massacred Moro civilians, attacked Mosques, ate they enemies brains and beheaded and hacked their victims to death.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilaga
In the 1974 Battle of Jolo, the Philippine military slaughtered over 10,000 civlians and burnt the entire city to the ground.
MILF (Moro Islamic Liberation Front) broke off from MNLF later during the war. The MNLF is made out of Tausugs from Sulu, while MILF is dominated by Maguindanaons from Mindanao, and MILF accused MNLF of being leftist-Marxists.
The Moro lands were also illegally annexed into the Philippine Commonwealth by the United States in the Commonwealth’s 1935 constitution. The United States had invaded and occupied Moro lands in violation of the Bates Treaty, which stated that the Moros were to run their own internal affairs. America unilaterally abrogated the Treaty in 1903 and started the war and conquest illegally.
gravenimage says
Philippines frees jihad leader to make peace with MILF
……………………………..
Yes—because releasing Jihadists to further wage violent Jihad has *always* led to peace…sarc/off
What fools these dhimmis be!
dumbledoresarmy says
I will make a prediction.
This ‘peace’ with MILF will not last. It will be broken before ten years are out, and the Muslims will claim that the Filipino non-Muslims are the ones who broke it, but if one looks really really closely, and is not blinded by flim-flam, one will discover that the Muslims broke it.
As for the clouds of smoke that Mazo and company are pouring out, in thread after thread; they are making the same sorts of claims about region after region after region where violent jihad exists or has existed against non-Muslims. It’s a massive exercise in ‘explaining away’. Don’t look! Don’t connect *anything* with the core doctrines of Islam.
Funny, that .
If they keep going like this, they’ll be trying to “explain away” the entire massive global jihad that’s been going on, on three continents, non-stop, for fourteen hundred years.
Every single one of those little local jihads that somehow ended up with more and more territory absorbed into the Blob, the de facto Empire of Islam, the mohammedan mob. Sure, the mohammedans didn’t invent slavery, polygamy and brutality, nor highway robbery; but Islam gleefully absorbed them and perpetuated (and perpetuates) them, and *sacralised* them for all time, via the figure of he whom Maimonides called Mohammed Ha-Meshugga, Mohammed the Mad.
And I *have* read both of the items I am now going to post. And I will keep on re-posting them, because they *make sense* of a great deal.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-lesson-of-algeria-islam-is-indivisible-1566770.html
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/GUERRA.HTM
FROM “COLD WAR” TO GUERRA FRIA?
Patrick L. Moore
dumbledoresarmy says
Something else, that throws a great deal of light, I think, on the likely processes by which the East Indies and Southern Philippines were slowly devoured by the Mohammedan Mob.
Infiltration and subversion. First Medina; then Mecca.
The basic blueprint – or colonisation/ takeover plan – is analysed and laid out by ex-Muslim, one Sam Solomon, with Elias Maqdisi, in his book “Al Hijra: the Islamic Doctrine of Immigration”.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/08/the_hijra.html
August 16, 2009
The Hijra
By Janet Levy
Modern Day Trojan Horse: The Islamic Doctrine of Immigration
By Sam Solomon and Elias Al Maqdisi
Reviewed and handily summarised here (but I assure you I have read the whole book. It is very illuminating).
If one reads it in conjunction with the work of another ex-Muslim, Patrick Sookhdeo, the books entitled “Islam in Britain” and “Faith, Power and Territory”, one sees *exactly* what the Ummah is about.
And one may reasonably extrapolate to all kinds of situations, both past and present, where Trouble keeps on mysteriously erupting in the vicinity of large, aggressive aggregations of Mohammedan mobsters.
dumbledoresarmy says
And by the way, since Mazo is very obviously a card-carrying Mohammedan busy Defending and Protecting Islam, why should I believe a thing he says?
What if his shrieked accusations against me and Gravenimage – that we are liars, truth-benders – are…nothing but turnspeak, projection, reversal of reality?
for it is Islam that, through and through, top bottom and sideways, is a Religion of the Lie.
I am going to link a series of articles by fluent-in-Arabic Coptic – and non-dhimmi – American scholar Raymond Ibrahim, who is thoroughly familiar with assorted Islamic sources, historic and contemporary. I see no reason not to trust *him*. He conveniently sums up, for the rest of us, Islam’s doctrines of deception, and why it is that no Infidel should ever trust a Muslim and why Muslim ‘agreements’ with non-Muslims are not to be relied upon by the non-Muslim party.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2013/03/raymond-ibrahim-the-threat-of-islamic-betrayal.html
Raymond Ibrahim: The Threat of Islamic Betrayal
http://www.meforum.org/2095/islams-doctrines-of-deception
Islam’s doctrines of deception by Raymond Ibrahim [in] Jane’s Islamic Affairs Analyst October 2008
http://www.meforum.org/2066/war-and-peace-and-deceit-in-islam
War and Peace – and Deceit – in Islam by Raymond Ibrahim Pajamas Media February 12, 2009
http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war
How Taqiyya Alters Islam’s Rules of War
“How Taqiyya Alters Islam’s Rules of War: Defeating Jihadist Terrorism,” by Raymond Ibrahim in the Middle East Quarterly, Winter 2010.
“How Taqiyya Alters Islam’s Rules of War: Defeating Jihadist Terrorism,” by Raymond Ibrahim in the Middle East Quarterly, Winter 2010.
http://www.raymondibrahim.com/11267/tawriya-lying
Tawriya: New Islamic Doctrine Permits ‘Creative Lying’ – by Raymond Ibrahim Stonegate Institute February 28, 2012 .
Mazo says
BLAH BLAH BLAH
Spanish discrimination against non-Catholic Chinese
http://books.google.com/books?id=5ibPY_65qGoC&pg=PA41&dq=Chinese+spanish+ghetto+taxes&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xu-qULuVPIrG0AGS2oCwDg&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=Chinese%20spanish%20ghetto%20taxes&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=VbwogbQ3l8UC&pg=PT124&dq=Chinese+spanish+ghetto+taxes&hl=en&sa=X&ei=l–qUP_8IOex0QG-h4DAAQ&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Chinese%20spanish%20ghetto%20taxes&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ih4rqkrcp70C&pg=PA297&dq=1603+chinese+heads++spanish&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4FqsUJzDCcix0QH26IFw&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=1603%20chinese%20heads%20%20spanish&f=false
Chinese fought side by side with Moros against Spain
http://books.google.com/books?id=gYgOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA44&dq=4000+chinese+manila+1758&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tdDSUJasCenI0QG7-YDwDw&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=4000%20chinese%20manila%201758&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=0dA3AQAAIAAJ&pg=PA382&dq=About+4.000+Chinese+expelled+from+Manila+in+1758+joined+the+Jolo+Moros;+also+a+number+of+Englishmen,+the+leader+of+whom,+named+Brun,+was+put+in+charge+of+the+defense.+In+1775+the+Moros+destroyed+the+British+colony+on+Balambangan,+led+by+the+dato,+Teteng,&hl=en&sa=X&ei=D36pUJnqBuu80QGGi4HwCg&ved=0CDIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=About%204.000%20Chinese%20expelled%20from%20Manila%20in%201758%20joined%20the%20Jolo%20Moros%3B%20also%20a%20number%20of%20Englishmen%2C%20the%20leader%20of%20whom%2C%20named%20Brun%2C%20was%20put%20in%20charge%20of%20the%20defense.%20In%201775%20the%20Moros%20destroyed%20the%20British%20colony%20on%20Balambangan%2C%20led%20by%20the%20dato%2C%20Teteng%2C&f=false
Chinese ran guns to supply Moro fighters against Spain.
http://books.google.com/books?id=VUZq93ydrrwC&pg=PA130#v=onepage&q&f=false
China’s friendly ties with the Moros
http://www.zamboangatimes.ph/zamboangatimes/top-news/1602-tausug-team-to-visit-china-to-renew-ancient-ties.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/philippines/history-sulu-sultanate-china.htm
http://alqalam.addu.edu.ph/sulu-treaties/
Moro Juramentados would only kill Japanese and never lay a finger on the Chinese.
http://books.google.com/books?id=xMkRAQAAMAAJ&q=The+juram+en+tado+'+s+act+was+occasionally+performed+against+the+Japanese+during+World+War+II%C2%97+and+the+Japanese+were+clearly+defined+as+enemies.+The+juramentado+never+went+after+Chinese+residents+in+spite+of+the+fact+that+the+Chinese+were+non-Muslims&dq=The+juram+en+tado+'+s+act+was+occasionally+performed+against+the+Japanese+during+World+War+II%C2%97+and+the+Japanese+were+clearly+defined+as+enemies.+The+juramentado+never+went+after+Chinese+residents+in+spite+of+the+fact+that+the+Chinese+were+non-Muslims&hl=en&sa=X&ei=udInUuDgCdip4APRuIDQAg&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA
The Moros fiercely fought against Japan during their invasion.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ZzMmpCinBYoC&pg=PA197&dq=mindanao++six+months+japanese+moro&hl=en&sa=X&ei=aZrmUui3CY2isATkn4Fo&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=mindanao%20%20six%20months%20japanese%20moro&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=5Qf39DpguysC&pg=PA125#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=6T39iCmUzMkC&pg=PA47#v=onepage&q&f=false
America was the one who violated the Bates Treaty with the Moros and consequently started the war
http://www.morolandhistory.com/07.PG-Bates%20Mission/Bates_mission_Agreement_1899.htm
http://www.philippineupdate.com/Bates.htm
Indonesia supports the Philippines
http://www.philstar.com/headlines/471366/indonesia-supports-observer-status-rp-organization-islamic-conference
http://www.mei.edu/content/philippines-elusive-quest-organization-islamic-conference-oic-observer-status
http://manilatimes.net/misuari-defers-fight-for-republik/24891/
Millions of Flipino Christian settlers from other islands were moved into Moro land on Mindanao
http://www.hawaii.edu/cps/identity.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=blGaAq5wXL4C&pg=PA2#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=qyo-Hti0-KAC&pg=PA114#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=fAq9kgbKBAUC&pg=PA221#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=KbGdZCZc8ewC&pg=PA17#v=onepage&q&f=false
And again, it was the Catholic parts of the Philippines which were “hell on earth” for the non-Catholic Chinese, who were repeatedly subjected to constant kidnapping, ransom, and murder, by criminal gangs who were supported by the Filipino police and military.
http://books.google.com/books?id=eoq6AAAAIAAJ&q=Between+1+99+1+and+1994,+there+was+a+dramatic+increase+in+the+number+of+ethnic+Chinese+kidnapped+for+ransom+in+the+Philippines+by+criminal+syndicates+allegedly+linked+to+corrupt+army+and+police+officials.+Unlike+the+Federation,+which+kept+a+…&dq=Between+1+99+1+and+1994,+there+was+a+dramatic+increase+in+the+number+of+ethnic+Chinese+kidnapped+for+ransom+in+the+Philippines+by+criminal+syndicates+allegedly+linked+to+corrupt+army+and+police+officials.+Unlike+the+Federation,+which+kept+a+…&hl=en&sa=X&ei=iYsOU_ilE8Xp0AHItICoBQ&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA
http://books.google.com/books?id=lISGiGDW2Z0C&pg=PA128#v=onepage&q&f=false
I already recommended that people who want to know about the Moros, read the works of the Arab Christian Dr. Najeeb Saleeby, who actually learnt Moro languages and culture and wrote many books on them.
Strange that dumbledoresarmy thinks he isn’t trustworthy, I bet the “dhimmi” slur is going to be used LOL.
dumbledoresarmy says
Mazo tries very hard, above, by sneering and chanting “blah blah blah”, to prevent new readers from actually clicking on the links to *non-dhimmi)* truth-telling Raymond Ibrahim’s articles about sacralised Muslim deception.
That tells me that at all costs ‘Mazo’ wants to prevent anybody from reading them. I wonder why?
And Mazo refers us instead, as an Authority upon the Muslims of the Philippines, to “the Arab Christian Dr. Najeeb Saleeby”.
There is a very high probability that this person – given that , from what little I can discover about him, he was born in 1870, as a member of a subjugated Christian minority under the Ottaman Muslims, and descended from generations of people who survived as degraded, humiliated and exploited dhimmis – would be operating from a dhimmi / Islamochristian mindset…and would therefore be furthering, consciously or unconsciously, the Cause of Islam. One is also entitled to take with a grain of salt the Muslim sources – whether living or written – on which Saleeby depended…again, because **muslims are allowed, and indeed taught, to LIE to Infidels, to further the cause of Islam**. (Muslims also lie, constantly, to one another).
Dhimmis are heavily conditioned to flatter and stroke Muslims and Islam, and to side with and identify with Muslims rather than with non-Muslims. It is Stockholm Syndrome on stilts.
If and when I read this man, I will provide myself with a heaping tablespoonful of salt, on the assumption that it may well be needed.
And to repeat: it is blindingly obvious that Mazo is a Muslim, defending Islam, defending and making excuses for the Mohammedan Mob, the Allah Gang, the de facto Empire of Islam.
I trust Raymond Ibrahim and his work. Ibrahim’s work tells me that Muslims are masters of falsehood, confusion and deception who feel entitled to use every imaginable form of deceit – plus plain old outright BS, nonsense and lies – to confuse Infidels, all the better – ultimately – to strike from ambush.
So rather than try to waste hours and hours wading through everything Mazo throws at us, in order to try to sift out truth from falsehood, I prefer to use Ockham’s razor and assume he is acting in bad faith, qua Muslim, in an attempt to prevent us dirty Infidels from applying our ‘big picture’ knowledge of Islam to predict – gloomily – the likely outcome of this latest hudna in the Philippines.
Mazo says
Defending the slaughter of innocent Chinese and Moro civilians by the Spanish and Philippines is sickening, vomit inducing, disgusting crap. So is totally ignoring the sick rape of women and racism of the colonialists.
http://books.google.com/books?id=zN7-s84jAkoC&pg=PT44#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://kardo.tripod.com/machismo.htm
http://aboutphilippines.ph/filer/Spanish-Colonial-Caste-System-in-the-Philippines.pdf
It makes me want to throw up all over the floor.
RodSerling says
dda doesn’t defend those things. You, on the other hand, continue to defend Islam, which permits slaughter and rape of innocent non-Muslims, and which is supremacist, imperialist, and racist in favour of Arab Muslims over others.
Mazo says
@RodSerling
Dumbledoresarmy also defended the brutal Dutch colonial regime in Indonesia, which massacred Chinese and Banda islander civilians, and oppressed everyone in general, playing a divide and rule game between Chinese and natives, and dumping tons of Madurese migrants on other islands through the transmigration program.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/02/indonesia-armed-muslim-mob-blocks-construction-of-church
Dumbledoresarmy is a blatant apologist for the Philippines actions in Moroland.
I’ve posted links from reliable western scholars, and all dumbledoresarmy does is post complete off topic commentary on Islamic theology by Raymond Ibrahim who is known to be a hater of Islam.
Semeru says
I trust Raymond Ibrahim and his work.
Is this the same Raymond Ibrahim that brought us the Sodomy for Jihad hoax
Is this the same Raymond Ibrahim that brought us the Crucifixtion in Cario hoax
RodSerling says
Semeru, Evidence please. Somebody claiming “hoax!” is not evidence.