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Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

The Churches and Islam

Feb 3, 2014 12:59 pm By Robert Spencer

In this episode of my ABN Jihad Watch program, Christine Williams, Public Affairs and Media Consultant for the International Christian Embassy in Jerusalem Canada, and I discuss the stance of contemporary churches toward Islam, and the dangers of the road they’re taking. Christine Williams is also a nine-time award-winning TV Host and Producer and a Director on the Canadian Race Relations Foundation.

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Comments

  1. nacazo says

    Feb 3, 2014 at 2:17 pm

    The worst kind of bias:

    Bias of lower expectations:

    We can’t expect Muslim men to treat women well because they are incapable (inferior).

    We can’t expect Muslim to control themselves when they get offended because they are incapable of doing so (inferior).

    etc

  2. NSNZ says

    Feb 3, 2014 at 2:53 pm

    Did you not bother to listen ‘nacazo? Obviously not to this one hour invaluable and honest talk by Christine and Robert that I just absorbed every word of. If you do not listen, you cannot learn and grow ‘nacazo’.

    • nacazo says

      Feb 3, 2014 at 5:11 pm

      If I protest any “abuse” by a Canadian male against his wife but say nothing about worse abuse by a Saudi male, aren’t I indirectly implying that I believe the Saudi male is inferior and can’t control his behavior but that the Canadian male can?

      That is what I mean by bias of lower expectations.

      • gravenimage says

        Feb 4, 2014 at 7:46 pm

        I knew what you meant, Nacazo. Hope you and yours are doing well.

  3. Dean says

    Feb 3, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    Christine Williams is a gem. We are fortunate to have such an eminent scholar and courageous individual – a champion of truth here in Canada. We are also blessed to have a government that does not take its orders from jihadists and leftists. The Obama government has a very pro-Muslim slant combined with a strong desire to make Israel the sacrificial lamb to a “peace” deal that promises not to be peaceful nor solve the issue of anti-Semitism and the jihad stemming from mandates that are meant to eradicate Israel and replace Jews with forms of Islamist dictatorships and terror groups. Christine and Robert, please keep up your work – the messages are getting through and the evidence of it are in the increasingly angry and irrational denunciations from the Islamists and their helpers, the looney left.

  4. RodSerling says

    Feb 3, 2014 at 7:39 pm

    Another excellent show. Christine Williams is doing great work in defense of freedom, human rights, and equality.

  5. jewdog says

    Feb 3, 2014 at 8:19 pm

    You have to laugh when you hear Ms. Williams talking about those slimy pious debaters who dance around answering direct questions, such as whether Mohammad can be criticized. I could see Robert getting a chuckle out of that one. We viewers have seen that one before.
    I find it disturbing that so many Christians continue to scapegoat Jews despite all of the abuses that their brethren are undergoing. At least some people are lighting candles in the darkness on that issue.

  6. Ryan Muhammad says

    Feb 3, 2014 at 8:34 pm

    I was cheering at the many powerful and accurate points made by Christine, as well as by Robert as the host.

    Westerns Christians are ignorant about the real nature of Islam, but many Western Christians are also cowards who will have to answer to Jesus on the last day.

    Christians who wish to stick their heads in the sand concerning Islam are actually calling Jesus a liar. How? Jesus taught:

    Matthew 7:15-20 – there are those who look friendly but want to devour you;
    look at fruit to determine false doctrine

    By defaulting to the position ‘hey, that Muslim looks friendly so they can’t pose any threat’ they call Jesus a liar because Jesus said to beware of such people and they say such people cannot exist. Jesus said they can look friendly and be dangerous, but the self-deceived position is they can’t possibly be dangerous if they look friendly.

    The terrorist Muslim Brotherhood front groups freely operating in North America don’t go around shouting Allahu Akbar wearing Taliban-style clothing. They wear suits and smile, yet their ideology is supremacist and terrorist which wants to destroy Western civilization and replace it with Islamic Shari’a law. THAT is the definition of wolf in sheep clothing!

    The Bible also mentions speaking up for the oppressed, yet cowardly Western Christians do not want to speak about the Islamic oppression of Christians. In fact, they don’t even want to know about it because that would mean they would be accountable for knowing.

    Thanks God for brave people like Christine and Robert displaying true Biblical qualities by exposing the false doctrine of Islam which is terrorizing Christians globally and trying to destroy Jews and Israel.

  7. gravenimage says

    Feb 3, 2014 at 11:10 pm

    The Churches and Islam

    …I discuss the stance of contemporary churches toward Islam, and the dangers of the road they’re taking.
    ……………………………..

    Yes—and many are deliberately ignoring the savagery of islam, because it doesn’t not fir their “narrative” of “interfaith dialogue”.

    Many Western Christians are even willing to ignore the genocide against Christians in Dar-al-Islam for this pie-in-the-sky Taqiyya. Appalling.

  8. Gary B. Strickland says

    Feb 4, 2014 at 5:03 pm

    Thank you Mr. Spencer and thank you Ms. Williams. Your insights, presented with foundation and conviction, require a hearing.

    The same old enablers, mainline Protestant religious groups, secular Synogogues, the Papacy (unfortunately with Francis’ most recent expressions), a sophmoric monopolized academia, political partisanship, and – of course – a clueless but biased media (biased toward utopianism), have put us at risk and will wreck destruction.

    Ms. Williams’ words induced me to join the Simon Wiesenthal
    Center, something I have been meaning to do for years. I’ve spent a lifetime studying Gulag, Lager, and Laogi. Unfortunately, a new chapter in suffering has opened. The cause is identifiable – it’s called “evil.” To stand aside and do nothing, let alone to enable, is to participate in evil. A participant is on equal footing with a purveyor, in terms of moral accountability.

    I remember being in a class at Princeton Seminary studying koine’ Greek with the world’s foremost scholar in the field when a friend of mine, a professor from Harvard, was insistent on drawing comparison between the Sharia’s Hudud punishments with Jesus’s “if your eye offend you.” (Matthew 5:29) (A non-sequitor, to be sure.) When my colleague kept insisting on a favorable comparison, the always meek-affecting professor cried out: “Shut up!” (Believe it or not – we had trouble believing what we had heard!) It’s time to tell the foolhardy enablers to shut up. The best prospect for doing so is by manifesting that we are more fully informed. There is a time for irenics; there is a time for polemics; there is a time for elenctics. But, it is imperative to know your audience.

    Ms. Williams has demonstrated tremedous courage with her public stance for genuine good. She manifests facilty in all three forms of debate. She deserves the support of the many; as does Robert Spencer. It’s better to be in the fray when the stakes are high. The stakes are high.

    • John Stefan Obeda says

      Feb 5, 2014 at 11:04 am

      Gary, thank you for your very fine encouraging comments. God help us to speak the truth even in the face of the devil and then God help us to pay the consequences for doing so. The truth must trump even our life. Easily said. God bless the many Christians who face either death or conversion to Islam to courageously face death.

  9. Kepha says

    Feb 4, 2014 at 7:21 pm

    Well, I’ve never made any bones about how I’m for people coming to Christ rather than polluting the church with diverse and strange doctrines. If “dialogue” serves any useful function, it should make it clear what the Gospel is and is not. Unhappily, we have these folks who claim to speak for the church who bend over every which way (sop to those who complain of some of our leaders bending over forward rather than backward) in trying to prove how “open” they are; and in so doing, they will take away everything about Christ and his Gospel that might offend.

    This is, though, what we get for permitting a liberal theological establishment in most churches and the demonization of Christian fundamentalism (to me, the only kind there is). We foster ignorance and weakness on the part of Christians when they come up against any other faith (not just Islam). We play silly see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil games when the age needs clarity more than anything else.

    @Gary Strickland–I also studied Koine Greek, but at Covenant Theological Seminary in St. Louis. I liked the story you told about your mild-mannered teacher saying “Shut up!”

    • John Stefan Obeda says

      Feb 5, 2014 at 11:29 am

      Gary and Kepha, Just a little info so we get to know one another. I’m a graduate of Concordia Seminary in St Louis 1955 and we all are glad that we have some knowledge of Koine Greek; always good to go to the original text. . . . Another matter: the prof said “shut up”. The sinful human nature of man wants to shut up people of a different opinion. I felt freer years ago to publicly state my opinion than I do now. My thinking: the more people get away from contact with the teachings of the Bible, the more, then, the people will want to shut you up. We are losing free speech which is an important part of democracy itself. No thanks to our leaders in both Canada and the U.S. who are not protecting and upholding it. God bless us all to learn the truth and to fearlessly preach and teach it and to pray for our dumb leaders.

      • Gary B. Strickland says

        Feb 5, 2014 at 5:13 pm

        Yes; that which stifles speech mostly and has wrecked havoc in our society is political correctness (“PC”). PC is a form of “shut-up” from the masses (who have their reference framed through the guiding influence of the “elites”) speaking ipse dixit (i.e., without foundation – mere assertions). A professor (or anyone for that matter) who justifiably speaks with authority, manifesting evidence to support the proposition, legitimately can (and should) silence the persistent purveyor of “assertion.” It’s one thing to express opinion ipse dixit; it is another to express opinion based on evidence. “A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.” Prov. 18:2. One is free to ignore the former. Prov. 18:2:

        However, if you read my comment again, you will recall:

        “There is a time for irenics; there is a time for polemics; there is a time for elenctics. But, it is imperative to know your audience.”

  10. John Stefan Obeda says

    Feb 5, 2014 at 10:51 am

    There are two main Lutheran synods and some smaller ones. By “main” I refer to size, liberal and conservative. Let it be known that the conservative synod(s) in Canada (Lutheran Church – Canada) and the conservative synod in the U.S. (Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod) would not have some “Lutheran” spout off to boycott anything concerning Israel. Isn’t it unfortunate how difficult it is to be clear in our thinking and yet, it seems to me that it would be clumsy and even difficult for Christine Willams to somehow let the people know who’s who. In fact, it’s a misnomer to consider the liberal Lutherans as Lutherans. I’m a retired Lutheran clergyman of the conservative type, thank God . . . . I listened last night to the whole show. Very good. God the Holy Trinity bless Robert Spencer and Christine Willams in their very important work. God bless them with health and energy and with a sharp knowledgeable mind.

    • Kepha says

      Feb 5, 2014 at 6:02 pm

      J.S.Obeda:

      John, good to meet you. I did my undergrad at Washington University in St. Louis and sometimes popped over to Concordia’s library to read some serious theology. Later, I got an M.Div. down the road at Covenant in Creve Couer.

      While I may quibble about the communication of attributes (I am Reformed, tinged with Pietism), I have a great deal of respect for the conservative Lutherans. My mother (Gud hville henne) , as a “Norsk” Dakotan (that’s a Misdwest in-joke, folks), had a Lutheran background. Some of the Lutheran works on the forensic character of justification are unlikely to be surpassed. Further, there has been a large amount of biblical scholarship from Lutheran hands which I have found helpful in my Christian walk, too.

      Most recently, I have been taking a leisurely read through Mark in Greek. In the school where I teach, we used to have something called “Drop Everything and Read”, during which teachers and students alike spent a half hour reading some book of their own choice. I was teaching English language learners at the time, and made a deal with them that if they didn’t complain about reading English, I’d spend the time with one of my other languages. I got to bone up on a fair amount of Taiwanese local history, Tang poetry, and Lao Zi in Chinese; and went through Hosea, Daniel, and a good chunk of the Psalter in the Septuagint.

  11. John Stefan Obeda says

    Feb 6, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    Brother Kepha, glad to meet you too. In heaven we’ll get acquainted even more. . . . I was graduated from Concordia Seminary in 1955, so you see I’m no spring chicken any more. I’m glad and so are you that God blesses some people with a mind that can easily pick up languages. Good for you and others through you. My mother tongue is Slovak. I used to preach Slovak in Chicago and other places. . . Since through faith in Christ we are citizens of Christ’s eternal kingdom, we are always concerned about the welfare of His kingdom. And, since we are citizens of our country we are also concerned about her welfare. And many of us are very concerned at the blindness of our leaders (even many in the churches, of all places), blindness concerning Islam. So God bless our prayers and our work in this matter. We are going to leave our world in a very sad shape for our descendants. God bless us all. And yet He permits his followers to be persecuted and killed by His own enemies. God’s ways are very strange (and His doctrine “hard to understand” as Peter admits). If I would have control, I would have gotten rid of Saul. But Jesus made him to be Paul. So you see how I would’ve messed up so greatly. Best that we let God be God and you and I and many others of His followers do what we can to get the saving Gospel out and smarten up our leaders and people concerning this great evil which the devil has aroused, Islam. Pax, John

    • Gary B. Strickland says

      Feb 6, 2014 at 4:05 pm

      John and Kepha:

      Although I don’t like taking up comment space to carry on personal conversation: Covenant Seminary 1976 Grad (also took courses at Concordia Seminary and practically lived in the library – excellent, particularly journals); Washington University Law 1984. God bless each of you.

      Gary

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