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Jihad Watch

Exposing the role that Islamic jihad theology and ideology play in the modern global conflicts

Muslim cleric: “As per the Qur’an, as per the religion of Islam,” Westgate mall massacre “was 100 percent justified”

Mar 11, 2014 10:11 pm By Robert Spencer

mombasa-sheikh-makaburiAbubaker Shariff Ahmed, better known as Makaburi, claims to be teaching “true Islam.” I have reported on many such claims by jihadists and Islamic supremacists over the years, leading to the common false claim that I myself hold the Islam of these “extremists” to be the “true Islam.” Actually, I’ve never said that any version of Islam is the true embodiment of the religion, and never would. “Moderate” Muslim clerics are as free as their “extremist” counterparts to claim that their version of Islam is the “true” one — however, they have never mounted an effective refutation to jihadist exegesis, or blunted the ability of jihadists to make recruits among peaceful Muslims by claiming that their version of Islam is the true one.

“Hardline Kenya cleric, the face of homegrown radical Islam,” by Aymeric Vincenot for AFP, March 11:

Mombasa — When Islamist gunmen stormed Nairobi’s Westgate shopping mall on a busy Saturday in September, the ensuing carnage also intensified fears that Kenya’s homegrown Islamists were on the rise.

Although the attackers were from Somalia’s Al-Qaeda-inspired Shebab rebels, the group’s ability to infiltrate and operate in Kenya, as well as find a stream of willing recruits, has focused attention on radical Islamists based down the coast in the Kenyan port city of Mombasa.

At the heart of the steamy port hub sits the Musa mosque, seen by Kenyan authorities as the epicentre of a new terrorist threat. Its key figure, Abubaker Shariff Ahmed, better known as Makaburi, does little to hide his firebrand leanings.

“It’s our innocents for your innocents. It was justified. As per the Koran, as per the religion of Islam, Westgate was 100 percent justified,” the Muslim cleric said of the attack that left at least 67 dead, among them women and children cut down by machine gun fire or grenades.

“Are the ones being killed and raped in Somalia not innocent?” Makaburi said in an interview with AFP in his austere Mombasa office, seizing on Shebab’s justification for the mall attack — Kenya’s military presence in southern Somalia.

“The KDF (Kenyan army) is doing the same thing and worse in Somalia than what happened at Westgate. So as per the Islamic religion, they had every right to avenge whatever the KDF is doing in Somalia.”

Makaburi asserted that no real Muslims died in the upmarket, part-Israeli-owned mall.

“How come a Muslim is at a shopping mall instead of being at a mosque?” he said, adding that the “Americans and the Western governments are killing innocent people all over the world everyday, they’re bombing weddings, funerals.”

The real “terrorists”, Makaburi argued, were the military personnel operating drones.

“How come the pilots of the drones are not labelled as terrorists? How come when we Muslims are being killed by the Americans using drones, by the British, by whoever, by the West, it’s nothing, but when you have a single non-Muslim killed by a Muslim, it’s terrorism?”

– ‘True Islam’ –

In August 2012, the Musa mosque’s radical preacher, Aboud Rogo Mohammed, was gunned down, and in October last year his successor, Sheikh Ibrahim Ismail, met the same fate on a road near Mombasa, again sparking riots. Most believe the Kenyan authorities were behind the killings.

Last month the mosque was yet again the scene of violence when armed police launched a massive raid to put an end to what officials said was a “jihadist convention” and a Shebab recruitment exercise taking place inside.

Makaburi, who is in his 50s, is currently subject to UN sanctions — a travel ban, assets freeze and targeted arms embargo — for being a “leading facilitator and recruiter of young Kenyan Muslims for violent militant activity in Somalia”, and for having “strong ties with senior Al-Shebab members.”

“I do not support Al-Shebab, I do not know Al-Shebab. I support the implementation of Sharia Law anywhere in the world,” Makaburi insisted in the interview.

“These are just accusations. Where is the proof that I have recruited anybody? Who have I recruited? When, how, where? These are just accusations.”

He also said that “the highest motivator for the youth to go into Somalia to fight Jihad is the Kenyan government doing injustice to the Muslim youth here in Kenya. How do you think the youth feel after they were sitting peacefully in a mosque and they were invaded, shot at, killed, meant to disappear?”

Instead, Makaburi presents himself as a simple man promoting “true Islam”, and not the kind practiced in Saudi Arabia, which he dismisses as “a Christian country ruled by somebody who pretends to be a Muslim”.

In his view the best examples of Islam are found in parts of Fallujah in Iraq, Taliban-controlled Afghanistan and Shebab-held areas of Somalia.

“Radical Islam is a creation of people who do not believe in Islam. We don’t have radical Islam, we don’t have moderates, we don’t have extremists. Islam is one religion following the Koran and the Sunnah,” said Makaburi….

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Comments

  1. richard Sherman says

    Mar 11, 2014 at 10:16 pm

    A typical Muslim..the only purpose of the Muslim life is to kill infidels…he makes it perfectly clear…all Muslims revere the SOCIOPATH MUHAMMAD WHO PERSONALLY DECAPITATED 900 UNARMED JEWS in 627…killing unarmed infidels is all they want to do!

    • Mr. Dude says

      Mar 11, 2014 at 10:34 pm

      Correct. Mohammad arguably even slaughtered what I would consider children, as young as maybe 13 years old even, based on the following:

      “Narrated Atiyyah al-Qurazi: I was among the captives of Banu Qurayza. They (the Companions) examined us, and those who had begun to grow hair (pubes) were killed, and those who had not were not killed. I was among those who had not grown hair.” Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4390

      The women and children were forced to be slaves.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Banu_Qurayza

      Neither Mohammad nor Jesus condemned slavery, so of course they weren’t moral.

      • Jay Boo says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:52 am

        Neither Mohammad nor Jesus condemned slavery, so of course they weren’t moral.
        ——————

        Why did you even bother with the long lead in if this was what your intention was to say?

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 10:47 am

          The first 3 paragraphs showed how evil the founder of Jihad was….HOW THE HECK IS THAT NOT HELPFUL!

        • Rob Crawford says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 11:34 am

          Because your sole purpose here is to post anti-Chrisitian flame bait.

          We get it — you believe there is no god and Dawkins is his prophet. Now go someplace else and troll.

      • Jay Boo says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:58 am

        Mr. Dude sounds a lot like Mr. Dawg

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 10:45 am

          I guarantee you I’ve never posted on this forum prior to about 4 days ago, and ONLY as “Mr. Dude”.

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 10:59 am

          Brother, you didn’t post a link to Jesus condemning slavery….you WOULD have if Jesus was that moral….but you could only attack the messenger (like people attack Robert – unfairly), because I have the facts on my side. Muslims/Christians are forced to simply attack the messenger, but Modern Secular Humanists aren’t reduced to that.

          PS what’s good for the goose is good for the gander….if we’re going to attack one Abrahamic faith (YES, LET’S ATTACK ISLAM/MOHAMMAD, AND OF COURSE I DO) then to be fair they ALL must be attacked (fairly, honestly, when warranted, of course.)

        • Jay Boo says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 12:13 pm

          MR Dude issued the standard divert and equivocate tactics
          Nothing new here.
          A rank amateur.

          I still amazes me that leftist Islam apologists are willing to stoop so low as to ignore the suffering of the victims of this tragedy while hiding behind the banner of being a Modern Secular Humanist.
          His generic criticism of Islam fools no one here
          Whenever Muslims comes into earshot he no doubt will be fawning for their PC approval. When self-absorbed leftist get together to infest and congregate they congratulating each other for being self-described ‘activists’

      • stevo k says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 8:39 am

        “The Spirit of the Lord is on Me.to proclaim freedom for the prisoners.and release to the oppressed.” Luke 4:18
        When the apostle Paul wrote to Philemon, concerning his escaped slave, he urged him to welcome back Onesimus “no longer as a slave, but.as a dear brother.as a man and as a brother in the Lord.”
        no more rubbish about christianity not condemning slavery, you clearly dont know christianity dude 😉

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 11:59 am

          Mohammad and Jesus and Moses never uttered the word “democracy”. Nuff said.

      • Angemon says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 10:18 am

        “Neither Mohammad nor Jesus condemned slavery, so of course they weren’t moral.”

        Once again, Dude is being ignorant, dishonest, or both. I’m just going to repeat what he was told several times before on other topics.

        Slavery back in Jesu’s time was not the slavery that was/is practised in many parts of the world in the last few centuries. It was not a race-based slavery that treated slaves as sub-humans just because they belonged to a different race or nationality. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts. Doctors, lawyers, even politicians could be slaves of someone else. Some people actually choose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters. Like i said, slavery was a matter of social order and status, and Jesus did not came to reform society but to tell people how to save their souls.

        Now for a comparison: Jesus had no slaves. He did not raise an army to fight for him. He did not enslave, rape, tortured or killed anyone. Muhammad, on the other hand, raised an army, stole, raped, tortured, kill, permitted sex slavery and sanctioned sex with children. But according to mr. Dude, both of them are immoral. I’d like to know how many people in mr. Dude’s daily life are as immoral as Jesus or muhammad by mr Dude’s own criteria. Unless that for some reason everyone goes telling one another “i condemn slavery” out of the blue, i’d say most, if not all, of them.

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 10:53 am

          Ahhh, but the difference is:
          1. that Mohammad/Jesus saw slavery all around them, every day, and yet they didn’t condemn it.
          2. And they claim to be moral teachers.

          Most people today don’t have those two things, so I’m not surprised that people today don’t say, out of the blue, “I condemn slavery.”

          Allah/Jesus, being all-knowing apparently, would of course KNOW that they would be accused of being morally bankrupt for not condemning slavery, so they are obviously fools for not condemning it, or they aren’t real/all-knowing in the first place.
          If you think Allah/Mohammad can be brought down (a great goal we all agree), and the other Abrahamic faiths left unscathed, you are mistaken, my friend.

        • Angemon says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 11:24 am

          Mr. Dude posted:

          “Ahhh, but the difference is:”

          Difference between what and what? You were told why your claim is wrong. Your claim is still wrong even if you choose to add “Ahhh, but the difference is” before repeating it. In the end you’re still trying to claim Jesus and Muhammad are equally amoral even though one murdered, enslaved, killed, raped, tortured and had sex with a 9-year-old girl.

          “Most people today don’t have those two things, so I’m not surprised that people today don’t say, out of the blue, “I condemn slavery.””
          What two things? Unfortunately there’s still slavery nowadays (not the slavery of the time of Jesus but more similar to what muhammad captured slaves for). So going by your logic, most people you know or come across in your daily life are amoral because they don’t condemn slavery. After all, going by your own logic, if they don’t condemn it then they endorse it.

      • Medina says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 11:39 am

        Jesus said love one another as I have loved you. muhamid said take whatever your right hand possesses.

        Jesus cured people and moohamed killed them. There are none so blind as dudes who will not see.

      • Defcon 4 says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:18 pm

        Have you ever condemned slavery?

        Yeshua never owned slaves, yet muhammad did.
        Muhahahahahamad encouraged slavery (especially
        of the unbeliever), yet Yeshua never did.

        Your argument of false equivalence seems to be
        nothing more than a pile of BS, but you already
        knew that didn’t you AHmed?

    • Mr. Dude says

      Mar 11, 2014 at 10:52 pm

      “A typical Muslim..the only purpose of the Muslim life is to kill infidels” – Richard Sherman

      In all fairness to our Muslim friends, the main purpose of the Muslim life is not to kill infidels, but to spread Islam and Sharia Law……but since Sharia Law/Mohammad is so incredibly barbaric and inhuman, I’m not sure that’s much of a distinction, quite frankly.

      If the “unarmed infidels” pay the Jizya (Q9:29), and don’t stand in the way of the Sharia, then they are NOT killed….however, they can take my gun (I use it to oppose Sharia Law) when they can pry it from my cold dead hands. (Didn’t Moses say that in some movie?) 🙂

      When you get right down to it, the biggest problem with Mohammad/Jesus/Moses (the 3 founders of the Abrahamic faiths) is that they were all not even smart enough to teach that DEMOCRACY is of course what’s best for the world, and not the totalitarian political schemes that they all endorsed. Of course a REAL prophet who was talking with a magic man in the sky would know that.

      • Jay Boo says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:50 am

        In all fairness to our Muslim friends, ???????????????
        When you get right down to it, the biggest problem with Mohammad/Jesus/Moses ???????????????????
        a magic man in the sky ????????????
        ——————————-

        Your comment begins with a sort of criticism of Islam
        then equivocates
        then goes totally off topic

        • voegelinian says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:45 am

          Welcome to Mr. Dude’s world.

        • Angemon says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 7:46 am

          “Your comment begins with a sort of criticism of Islam
          then equivocates
          then goes totally off topic
          ”

          You should have seen him before on other topics. He said he was an atheist and proceeded to attack christianity. And, besides his obvious ignorance on the subject he choose to discuss, he resorted to mud slinging and outright lies to “prove” his point. If it weren’t for a handful of other users calling him out on his BS he wouldn’t be pretending to criticise islam. He had a long list of biblical quotes and websites criticising christianity but when asked about islam all he did was to link to wikipedia a couple of times. It’s clear that his “research” was not evenly distributed among the things he holds as equals. For example, he claims that Jesus and muhammad endorsed “totalitarian political schemes” when Jesus encouraged his followers to separate church and state while muhammad (and every other islamic leader after him) was a political, religious and military leader. His agenda, his ignorance and his unwillingness to engage in a logical discussion backed by facts are obvious.

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 11:06 am

          Actually, the topic is NOT just “is Islam bad” (we know it is), but “why do people accept Islam, like Obama et al constantly do”…and the answer to that is that they believe (and they are often Christians), that faith is good. Faith, whether in Allah, or god/Jesus, or Thor, etc. is not good, as it removes people from reality into a fairy tale world. Christians believe unicorns are real (9 times in the Bible), and Muslims believe that Jinns (one could be living in your nose right now, they believe!) are real. If they did not, they would of course tell their children which parts of the Bible/Qur’an are wrong, and then work to not bring those wrong parts forward in the future, obviously. This is how Dawkins/Harris/logic think, not how Mohammad/Jesus/Moses/superstitions think. The real battle is: do we think like Dawkins, or like Mohammad/Jesus.

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 11:22 am

          “In all fairness to our Muslim friends, ???????????????”
          I take it you don’t believe in fairness?

          I believe in fairness (I’m a Modern Secular Humanist), that’s why I think it’s unfair of course for Allah/Jesus to believe that, say, Ben Franklin, DESERVES eternal TORTURE, YES TORTURE, even though he was moral, and gave the world some of the greatest discoveries ever.

          Question: is it FAIR for Allah/Jesus to torture Ben Franklin?

        • gravenimage says

          Mar 14, 2014 at 1:41 am

          Jay Boo wrote, re “Mr. Dude”:

          Your comment begins with a sort of criticism of Islam
          then equivocates
          then goes totally off topic
          ………………………..

          That’s been his MO in general, Jay Boo—he throws the Anti-Jihadists a bone so that he sounds vaguely plausible, then goes off on his true agenda.

      • stevo k says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 8:44 am

        when peter asked jesus what they should do about giving taxes to the romans jesus replies “give unto caesar what is caesars and give unto the lords what is the lords”. first clear indication of seperation of religion and state, secularism.
        dude, its no acident that democracy flourished in christendom, the west as we now call it. it is precisely because of judeo christianity, not inspite of it.

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 11:37 am

          Stevo, I bet your children are smart enough to have used that opportunity, if they were in Jesus’ shoes, to say “democracy is right, totalitarianism is wrong”. Six simple words. Are they smart enough to have said that, Stevo? Or is democracy more complicated than, say, nuclear particle physics is?

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 11:43 am

          It took over 1860 years for people, I’m talking Americans now, to legally get rid of slavery, after fighting the (still) bloodiest war for Americans in its history. People did that DESPITE the Bible, not because of the Bible.

          In all fairness to Jesus, Mohammad’s minions didn’t get rid of slavery until about 1962 (yes, 100 years later) in the Saudi holy place. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia

          Had Modern Secular Humanism (Dawkins/Harris) been the main belief system of the world in Mohammad/Jesus’ time, slavery would have ended then and there, of course. What an opportunity Mohammad/Jesus missed to utter 3 simple words “End slavery now.” Those 3 words would have been the greatest in world history.

      • Kalliope says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 10:39 am

        @Mr. Dude

        It’s clear that you know very little about Christianity.
        Christ never endorsed totalitarianism, nor is ʾIslām an Abrahamic faith.

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 11:18 am

          Wiki says “The largest Abrahamic religions in chronological order of founding are Judaism, Christianity, and Islam;”
          Wiki could be wrong, and you could be wrong…so which is it, is Wiki wrong or are you wrong?

        • Kalliope says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 2:58 pm

          Wikipedia can state what it wishes; however in-depth study and comparisons between the three faiths proves that ʾIslām has no connection to the other two. It is actually ignorant and delusional (not to mention slanderous) to say that ʾIslām is an ‘Abrahamic’ faith. If it were, it would not be so vicious to Christians and Jews, the so-called People of the Book.

          Here are links discussing this subject in depth:
          Islam: Abrahamic Religion or Muhammad’s Alter-Ego?
          http://www.islam-watch.org/authors/50-stunich/399-islam-abrahamic-religion-or-muhammads-alter-ego.html

          ISLAM and the Abrahamic Faith MYTH
          http://www.islammonitor.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2976&Itemid=92

          Islam and the People of the Book
          http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_the_People_of_the_Book

          Islamic Antisemitism
          http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islamic_Antisemitism

          Contradictions in Qur’anic Christology
          http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Contradictions_in_Qur'anic_Christology

          Muslim theology comes directly from Satan.
          Muḥammad is the Prophet of the Pit.

      • Daniel says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:43 pm

        In Mosaic legislation there is a repeated theme of one law applicable both to the Israelite and the foreign resident (Ex. 12:49, Num. 15:16, 15:29), this principle is what gave England the Magna Carta. It means that even the kings were under the law, there were no second class citzens, like Rome had, or Dhimmis. There were no varying scales of punishment with rich people getting off more easily like in Hammurabi’s Code. Exodus 23:1-9 pretty much epitomizes the statue of blind justice weighing the scales, not taking, bribes, not favoring a poor man because of his poverty, yet not taking cause against him for it either, treating even a personal enemy with equity, as well as foreigners, not siding with mob justice. Show me any nation that has this down pat and then criticize the law of Moses.

        It established the rule of equitable law that makes a real democracy possible. The Jewish Theocracy was probably the weakest theocracy ever to exist, the people routinely abandoned God, and were always called back more by moral persuasion than force of arms. If you read the whole of the OT you will see that God often spoke to people directly mitigating the punishment the law would have required. Gideon destroyed the altar of Baal in his home village, he did not destroy the whole village, as the letter of the law would have required. The people turned to God after he defeated the foreign foe, the only Israelites punished were those who refused to aid him after the main battle had been won, essentially committing an act of treason.

        Christ said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” You would have to really try hard to get any theocracy of any sort out of the New Testament. Christ said to give Caesar what is his and God what is God’s. The only conflict Christianity had with Rome was when the emperor demanded worship, because that was giving to Ceasar what belonged to God.

    • Jay Boo says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:35 am

      Good Morning Muslim world
      Brothers and Sisters of planet earth
      Allah must be so eternally grateful to Muslims for aiding in the imposition of Allah’s wrath. What would poor Allah do without Muslims to help out.

      In all fairness to our Muslim friends, the main purpose of the Muslim life is to deny that Islam’s religious obligations are not only meaningless but shallow and evil.
      Imagine what it must feel like to wake up in the morning knowing full well
      that five prayers of display to assuage Allah’s hate is all done in waste.
      Ramadan spy on your neighbor for the sake of Allah.
      How incredibly despicable.
      Why do Muslims commit such evil in the world?
      The answer is very simple. It is because they are too ashamed to admit that their lives have been lived in waste. Their vain prayers have no meaning whatsoever. There is no true joy in Islam; there is only emptiness built upon a pile of vanity and hate.
      Some Muslims would rather kill than admit Islam is nothing but a pathetic joke and their empty depressing lives have no meaning

      This article is such a condemnation of Islam that some commenters below will try to change the subject

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 11:44 am

        Yes, excellent.

      • Defcon 4 says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 6:00 pm

        I’m certain your cogent comment would, if uttered or written in any islamic state, would put your life in jeopardy.

    • Jay Boo says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:36 am

      Good Morning Muslim world
      Brothers and Sisters of planet earth
      Allah must be so eternally grateful to Muslims for aiding in the imposition of Allah’s wrath. What would poor Allah do without Muslims to help out.

      In all fairness to our Muslim friends, the main purpose of the Muslim life is to deny that Islam’s religious obligations are not only meaningless but shallow and evil.
      Imagine what it must feel like to wake up in the morning knowing full well
      that five prayers of display to assuage Allah’s hate is all done in waste.
      Ramadan spy on your neighbor for the sake of Allah.
      How incredibly despicable.
      Why do Muslims commit such evil in the world?
      The answer is very simple. It is because they are too ashamed to admit that their lives have been lived in waste. Their vain prayers have no meaning whatsoever. There is no true joy in Islam; there is only emptiness built upon a pile of vanity and hate.
      Some Muslims would rather kill than admit Islam is nothing but a pathetic joke and their empty depressing lives have no meaning

      This article is such a condemnation of Islam that some commenters below will try to change the subject

      • Jay Boo says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 1:42 am

        CORRECTION
        my post did not post were I thought it would post
        commenters below are actually above
        all are in reference to Mr. Dude only

    • Yahti Mangoul says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 4:28 pm

      Bull shit, and you know it,

  2. Bezelel says

    Mar 11, 2014 at 11:12 pm

    The religion of self justification. obaMUD say’s we’re supposed to respect it.

  3. Tayloch says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 12:36 am

    “Radical Islam is a creation of people who do not believe in Islam. We don’t have radical Islam, we don’t have moderates, we don’t have extremists. Islam is one religion following the Koran and the Sunnah,”…

    The singular most truthful statement of this zombie’s rant.

    Helloooo…Dougie? Reza? OweBayme?

    Crickets be they a’chirping loudly….

  4. Jay Boo says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 1:28 am

    Good Morning Muslim world
    Brothers and Sisters of planet earth
    Allah must be so eternally grateful to Muslims for aiding in the imposition of Allah’s wrath. What would poor Allah do without Muslims to help out.

    In all fairness to our Muslim friends, the main purpose of the Muslim life is to deny that Islam’s religious obligations are not only meaningless but shallow and evil.
    Imagine what it must feel like to wake up in the morning knowing full well
    that five prayers of display to assuage Allah’s hate is all done in waste.
    Ramadan spy on your neighbor for the sake of Allah.
    How incredibly despicable.
    Why do Muslims commit such evil in the world?
    The answer is very simple. It is because they are too ashamed to admit that their lives have been lived in waste. Their vain prayers have no meaning whatsoever. There is no true joy in Islam; there is only emptiness built upon a pile of vanity and hate.
    Some Muslims would rather kill than admit Islam is nothing but a pathetic joke and their empty depressing lives have no meaning.

    • Champ says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:40 am

      Bravo, Jay Boo!

  5. Champ says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 1:30 am

    Wow you can always count on a devout muslim to justify such evil …

    • Jay Boo says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:46 am

      Thanks Champ

  6. voegelinian says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 1:53 am

    Makaburi is just part of that tiny minority of hardline conservative fundamentalist radical extremist Islamists. The vast majority of Muslims are harmless, made of sugar & spice & everything nice.

    As for his statement that ““Radical Islam is a creation of people who do not believe in Islam. We don’t have radical Islam, we don’t have moderates, we don’t have extremists. Islam is one religion following the Koran and the Sunnah” — well, only hardline conservative fundamentalist radical extremist Islamists say that… 🙂

    • Defcon 4 says

      Mar 13, 2014 at 2:29 pm

      @voegelinian

      LOL. Good stuff. The kind of humor you’ll never see anywhere outside of blogs these days.

  7. Jerry says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 3:44 am

    Actually Islam is the creation of a self proclaimed “Prophet” who probably did not even believe in his “Allah” but was using his fabricated ideology to recruit gullible, intellectually, emotionally and sexually immature desert dwellers into his plundering, torturing murdering, and raping raids in return of a shere in the loot and a false promise of being rewarded in some invented paradise if they die on their criminal venture.

    If you properly analyse the concept of “Allah” that megalomaniac psychopath, his “Allah” is just as psychopathic as Mohammed, his inventor.

    If one believes in an almighty creator of the universe, omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and everlasting, then all the Islamic attributes of the creator cannot possibly be true.

    The creator of all life practically abdicating and leaving it to the jihaddists to decide for him who should live and who should die?

    The creator of all diversity requiring the Islamists to extinguish all diveristy?

    The creator of intelligence, knowledge and understanding imparting all to his self proclaimed “Prophet” as a last and final arbiter of all truth and knowledge?

    The creator of freedom of choice requiring unthinking and unquestioning submission to the utterances of such false “Messanger”?

    What an idiotic proposition even if supported and belived in, at least in part by a nearly two billion gullible fools!

    And the problem is that some of those fools, in order to serve their unsubstantiated Mohammedan belief in such false “Allah” and false “Prophet” seek to acquire nuclear weapons so that they could, in persuit of that their psychopatic delusions kill all on earth and die for the sake of a delusional “Allah”.

  8. joeb says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 6:06 am

    As Maj. Stephen Coughlin says, all that matters is what is the Islam they say they are killing us because of, and does it say what they say it says? We can look at the doctrine and see that it does. It doesn’t matter if it’s ‘wrong’. That is the doctrine they fight under. Do my two uncles who died in WWII get to come back to life because the SS who killed them were ‘wrong’?

  9. duh_swami says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 7:36 am

    “Radical Islam is a creation of people who do not believe in Islam.

    There are still kuffar who believe that Islam is the ROP and jihadists, a minute minority, are simply hijacking this fine religion for criminal purposes. So they actually do believe in Islam, just not the one the jihadists believe in. What that means in street terms is that there are a lot of kuffar who are stupid beyond belief. And worse than that, they resist education on the subject. They have read nothing, and know nothing, yet they vigorously defend the indefensible. This is a form of slow but sure spiritual suicide. Allah appreciates it, but he will not reward it. If these people were true to their convictions, they would convert, or sign up, and do the shahada tango. Then Allah would reward them…or maybe not…

  10. pongidae rex says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 8:09 am

    The simple and obvious solution is to kill the hate preachers. The Islamists kill anyone who disagrees with their message, and it works. All the voices of peace and moderation in Islam are dead or in hiding.

    Kill the hate preachers. It really is that simple. Really.

    But oh yeah. Their human rights and all that. So stop complaining if you are unwilling to solve the problem.

    • duh_swami says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 8:51 am

      Your post will probably be deleted because you are advocating killing people. But short of that, what does this mean?

      ‘So stop complaining if you are unwilling to solve the problem’.

      How many hate preachers have you put out of business? Are you going to lead the charge? Or are you playing the game, ‘lets you and him fight’? At any rate Abu, I’m not buying whatever it is you are selling.

  11. exsgtbrown says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 10:01 am

    “Makaburi asserted that no real Muslims died in the upmarket, ….”

    Muslims trying to live normal lives are Un-Islamic…

  12. pongidae rex says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 10:13 am

    The radical elements of Islam now dominate because they have successfully killed or driven into hiding all peaceful voices of Islam. Islamic ‘education’ is now little more than terrorist indoctrination in most parts of the world.

    Since killing off their opposition has worked so well for radical elements of Islam, who now dominate, the obvious solution is to kill or drive into hiding all Islamist hate preachers. You fight fire with fire.

    It is a brutal problem and the solution really is that brutally simple. Failure to pursue that is failure to address the problem seriously. I believe the US military and intelligence services have shirked their duty there. We have fantasy based warfighting and fantasy based national policy. Hate and murder are not hate and murder when they are ‘religious practice’.

    So who is going to bell this cat? The simple answer is, no one. Not anytime soon. But pretending there is any other solution is to think as a child.

    • voegelinian says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 2:17 pm

      Your solution assumes that hate preachers are the only problem.

  13. duh_swami says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 10:52 am

    You are full of petrified bovine fecal matter and top that of that advocate for murder. I think you are an Abu. There is only one Islam and all talk of ‘radical’ this or that, are lies.

    • pongidae rex says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 11:16 am

      A day does not go by that Islamist hate preachers do not stand in front of crowds in mosques all over the world and call for the indiscriminate slaughter of everyone who does not grovel on the ground 5 times a day to caress the bloody boot of Islam on their neck. And everyone is OK with this?

      Yet if I say that that is a great approach, lets just turn the tables and advocate the same thing against hate preachers, I’m an evil person advocating ‘violence’.

      It is the sincerity of the opinion that Islamists have the right to preach killing of non-Muslims, and non-Muslims have no right to disagree, that is alarming.

      Well, I disagree. Anyone who says I should be killed because I am not a Muslim is less than human.

  14. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 11:10 am

    I apologize to JW readers, but please realize that the real problem is not me, the real problem is that Mohammad (and Jesus, you have to admit) believed that magic is real. If you believe in a magic place where you get 72 virgins if you fly a plane into a building, then you’ll do just that. Or go on a Crusade, or burn witches, or do an Inquisition, etc. By contrast, no teaching of Dawkins (Modern Secular Humanism) would lead someone to do that.

    • Angemon says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 11:29 am

      Mr. Dude posted:

      “ If you believe in a magic place where you get 72 virgins if you fly a plane into a building, then you’ll do just that. Or go on a Crusade, or burn witches, or do an Inquisition,”
      Do tell us where Crusaders, witch burners and inquisitors were told that they’d go to a magic place with 72 virgins waiting for them.

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 11:53 am

        Correct, no, not 72 virgins, but “heaven” which is far far better, allegedly, than “hell”. The specific reward is not the real issue, the issue is whether some magic place, scientifically unproven of course, is dangled in front of the “mark” (it’s just another con) to get him to give his loyalty/money (“tithe”, etc.) to the leaders of the cult. They can’t come up with REAL rewards of course, so they need to just INVENT fake ones.
        And faith is required because they have no facts. There are no facts backing up Mohammad’s riding on a flying horse, or that a talking snake is real, you just have to have faith. See how the con works?

        • Angemon says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 12:03 pm

          Mr. Dude posted:

          “Correct, no, not 72 virgins, but “heaven” which is far far better”

          In that case, do tell us where Jesus said that those who go on crusades, or burn witches, or perform inquisition, will go to heaven. The crusades were a limited response (both in time and scope) to centuries of muslim aggression against and predation of christian kingdoms.

          You still haven’t proved anything you set out to prove. In fact, you’ve been constantly corrected by other users, which forced you to change your statements so you can go on with your farce. Or are we just supposed to have faith in your statements since you have no facts to back them? Isn’t that what you defined as a “con”?

  15. mortimer says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 11:23 am

    Excellent! But who the heck cares when an OFFICIAL OF THE ISLAMIC RELIGION calls for murder? Anyone surprised?

    So let’s compare. Suppose the CHIEF RABBI of a country or a prominent BISHOP said: ‘JEWS WHO KILL MUSLIMS IN A SHOPPING CENTER ARE JUSTIFIED’. Suppose a leading BISHOP said: ‘CHRISTIANS WHO MURDER MUSLIMS IN A MARKET PLACE ARE DOING GOD’S WORK’.

    Would there be criticism? Why?

    Why is murdering shoppers in a shopping center 100% JUSTIFIED by Islam? What Islamic texts does that idea come from?

  16. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 11:26 am

    Angemon, the word “King” is in the bible 409 times, my friend, but the word “democracy” is in the Bible 0 times. Will Jesus run for office when he returns, or be “King”? The Bible of course says King.

    The Qur’an, like the other Abrahamic faiths, also is clueless when it comes to democracy. Mohammad endorsed totalitarian political schemes, just like the Bible does. Kings are heroes in the Bible. Dawkins, on the other hand, abhors Kings.

    • Angemon says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 12:12 pm

      “Angemon, the word “King” is in the bible 409 times, my friend, but the word “democracy” is in the Bible 0 times. Will Jesus run for office when he returns, or be “King”? The Bible of course says King.”

      King of what? Israel? Jews? Is it a metaphoric title or the bible clearly states that Jesus will return and set up a monarchy with him as king? Need I remind you that you’ve proved you can’t spot a metaphor even when it’s clearly stated that something is a parable?

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:28 pm

        Yes, I can spot a metaphor: the resurrection. It’s not REAL, it’s a metaphor for rebirth.

        If people believe that Genesis is a metaphor (i.e. they believe that evolution is correct), then to be consistent they should believe that the resurrection is also a metaphor.

        One can’t believe in fairy tales and remain consistent.

        By the way, good parental role models are consistent.

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:29 pm

        So every king is condemned in the Bible/Qur’an for being too stupid to understand democracy? I think not. Kings are often HEROES in the Abrahamic faiths.

  17. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 11:33 am

    Angemon, yes, Mohammad, was evil. But so is any “prophet” who believes that my little sister, if she exercises her logic, reason, and common sense to embrace science and reject unproven supernatural claims, DESERVES TO SUFFER FOR ETERNITY. (That’s worse punishment than any NAZI ever meted out to any, just say, Jewish child-mass-murderer, when you think about it.)

    Mohammad may have been more evil than Jesus, but that doesn’t make Jesus less evil.

    • Eels says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 12:03 pm

      One day Mr Dude, possibly after you reach puberty, you will learn that the Modern Secular Humanism you live by and worship, has as many problems as any other world view. Your touching naivety in the inherent goodness of democracy, which as Churchill said is the worst way of running a country apart from all the others, and the goodness that science and radical materialism in which I presume you to believe, is not well founded.

      Your lack of understanding of the subtleties and nuances of Christianity is embarrassing you at you every post.

      You’d really do well to shut up and I suppose I would do well not to let you rile me so.

      A rule Jesus did event, a rule beyond the golden rule, a rule about loving your enemies is ringing in my ears.

    • ecosse1314 says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 12:05 pm

      Oh dear Oh dear…this very sad to have some-one publicly have a mental breakdown. Mr Dude has only been on JW for four days. I n that short space he has been proved historically incorrect moraclly incorrect and sadly even grammatically incorrect.
      His style is simple…he takes a biblical passage which he twists and turns to beat a Patriarch with, then blames it all on Jesus. He really should be avoided.

    • ecosse1314 says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 12:13 pm

      You idiot Dude if Mohammed was more evil then Jesus then by definition Jesus must have been less evil. That Jesus was even slightly is a proposition btw that you have not even begun to prove

    • Angemon says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 12:14 pm

      Mr. Dude posted:

      “Mohammad may have been more evil than Jesus, but that doesn’t make Jesus less evil.”

      XD

      There goes Dude’s right to talk about logic and rational thinking.

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:23 pm

        I see your point. Yes, it makes Jesus less evil THAN MOHAMMAD, but not less evil in absolute terms. Since Charles Manson was less evil than Hitler, it doesn’t make Manson less evil in absolute terms, just in RELATIVE terms.
        Have a great day.

        Again, yes, Mohammad was evil. He was a pedo, murderer, rapist of captives, robber, con artist, etc.

        • Angemon says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 12:36 pm

          Mr. Dude posted:

          “Since Charles Manson was less evil than Hitler, it doesn’t make Manson less evil in absolute terms”

          So you’re saying that, in absolute terms, Charles Manson was as evil, or more evil, than Hitler. But not less evil, because he was less evil relatively. Truly, your brilliance knows no limits!!! (BTW, that last sentence is sarcastic. I’m outright telling you that because you don’t seem to have the ability of identifying and/or understanding sarcasm)

          BTW, it seems that both Hitler and Manson were atheists. Shouldn’t they have been moral human beings since they didn’t have to believe in magic and the afterlife, like you’ve been claiming?

    • pongidae rex says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 12:15 pm

      Jesus is love. That is really all He is. Any who say different do not know Jesus. Jesus is not out to get you. He really does not give a damn what you ‘believe’. He will not cast you into hell; you have to do that yourself. Your karma is your problem. Jesus just loves you. That’s it.

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:20 pm

        That’s patently false, as he and Mohammad approved of slavery: http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

        http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Qur%27an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Slavery

        Jesus said the only way to the father is through him, so people in “lost tribes”, who don’t hear the word of Jesus through no fault of their own, burn in hell. Completely unfair, you have to admit. Mohammad’s teachings are quite similar. Two peas in a pod.

        • Daniel says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:21 pm

          Deu 23:15-16 “You shall not give up to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. He shall dwell with you, in your midst, in the place that he shall choose within one of your towns, wherever it suits him. You shall not wrong him.”

          The basis of the underground railroad. The reason why people who were firm believers in the Bible refused to follow man’s law or the Supreme Court rulings in favor of slavery. If applied it makes slavery economically unviable. This was the issue that Paul faced when he wrote to Philemon: God’s law was clear he should not return Onesimus to Philemon. Rome’s law was clear, Onesimus would be executed if caught. What could he do? Since he knew Philemon he could send him back and thus obey Roman law, but in such a way as to also bring about v16 of Deut. 23. He sent him with a letter telling him of the circumstances of meeting Onesimus and saying that he would cover any expenses for the freedom of Onesimus, and even any proprty he had damaged or stolen. Church tradition tells us that Onesimus was freed, and if he was not it is hard to imagine how the letter to Philemon would have survived.

        • voegelinian says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 2:23 pm

          Mr. Dude has already been told that his use of Luke does not demonstrate that Jesus “approved” of slavery. He continues to assert this without adequately presenting a defense of his already refuted claim. He now repeats his claim in stronger terms, directly implying an exact equivalence of Mohammed and Jesus on slavery.

          This is but one example of dozens and dozens fallacies, specious pseudo-arguments, and other assorted garbage — including his apparently studied avoidance of key challenges from other commenters — he has been inundating Jihad Watch comments with for days now.

        • pongidae rex says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 2:40 pm

          Once Jesus is in your heart, the bible, Koran, what people say and think and write is irrelevant. Jesus is a pal. Jesus is your best friend. Every stone and flower and piece of trash on the road is Jesus beaming his love at you. Once Jesus is in your heart you no longer have any need of religion or arguments. The cosmos is the mind of God and God is Love and Jesus is just the messenger of that love. Your karma is your problem and Jesus is not some sort of wild card that will get you off the hook. Jesus is not out to screw you over or deceive you or punish you or make deals with you. He is there if you are open to his love and he is cool with it if you are not ready for it. Jesus is patient. He will wait for you. As long as it takes. He is not going anywhere. Jesus is the end of arguments and opinions. He is the end of wanting anything but for all beings to find happiness. People who say different do not know him or have their faces in books written by ignorant goat herders over a thousand years ago.

  18. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    “Because your sole purpose here is to post anti-Chrisitian flame bait.” – Rob

    Absolutely not. My purpose is to show the truth, and the truth is that Islam is evil. The truth is also that it’s NOT like Islam is all evil and Jesus is all good, as my posts have shown. To attack Mohammad’s stance that, for example, gays should be killed, to not be a raging HYPOCRITE, Christians would need to remove that from THEIR OWN texts that they give their children. I simply have higher moral standards, as I would not give my kids a book that say that they should be killed if they have a different preference (or I would at least tell them which of the many many parts of the Bible are patently wrong, such as kill gays, Genesis, the resurrection, Revelation, women are worth 1/2 a man, etc.)
    I likely care about my children more than followers of the Abrahamic faiths care about their children (unless of course they’ve done what I just mentioned, then maybe I’m wrong in their particular case.)

    • ecosse1314 says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 12:08 pm

      Glory glory be to Dawkins we have found the one man on earth who knows how to speak the truth and be nice to his children. Step forward Mr Dude

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:16 pm

        Mohammad was a blatant liar, and he also advocated “taqiyya”. Google it.

        But to be fair, Jesus also lied. He blatantly lied about the effectiveness of prayer of course: http://www.evilbible.com/Jesus_Lied.htm
        Jesus also lied when he said he would return in his followers lifetime, and also lied when he said he would return “soon”. (“Never” is not “soon”, and even 2000 years is of course not “soon”. If you believe that 2000 years and counting is “soon”, then you live in the same fantasy land that Mohammad/Jesus live in, I’m afraid.)

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:49 pm

        Clearly Islam is not a good role model for parents. It says to beat children who don’t pray. Mohammad was disgusting.

        But because Modern Secular Humanism is fair, and Christians believe the following (or they/Jesus would see that it’s not in the bible), it’s important to point out that Christianity is also a bad role model for parents:
        Children who refuse to obey their parents must be executed.

        If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. — Deuteronomy 21:18-21

        He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. — Exodus 21:15

        He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. — Exodus 21:17

        Children who mock their parents will have their eyes plucked out by ravens and eaten by eagles.

        The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. — Proverbs 30:17

        Like Abraham, parents should be willing to kill their children for God.

        And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and … offer him there for a burnt offering…. And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. — Genesis 22:2,10

        God killed all the firstborn children in an entire country.

        The LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon…. And there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. — Exodus 12:29-30

        Sometimes God kills children for misbehaving.

        And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. — 2 Kings 2:23-24
        http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_about/children.html

        • Angemon says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 12:55 pm

          And you claim you’re not flame-baiting but using logic and rational thinking… You’ve been told before that the NT supersedes the OT. Since christians followers of Christ, could you please quote where in the NT Jesus said that children who refuse to obey their parents must be executed?

        • Daniel says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:34 pm

          Let’s take Deut. 21:18-21, since you bring it up. If Moses had given no law concerning this what would have been the state of children under existing conditions? The book of Genesis shows patriarchy, the patriarch (not always identical with the father) had absolute right over his family. Laban could do harm to Jacob, his son-in-law because he left without asking permission (Gen. 31). Rome allowed the Pater Familias similar rights, he had absolute power of life and death over his house hold. If memory serves that held true in parts of France until Napoleon.

          This law removed and limited that power from a patriarch, to both the father and mother and they had to do it in a court room setting instead of on their whim at home. They also had to give valid reasons: Drunkeness, Gluttony which would have given the accused the right of defense if the charges were false. There is not a single recorded instance of this law being used in Scripture. If this law was used as you think why are there no honor killings in Western culture, why have there been few if any in the 1600 years since Christianity has been a major force in the West? If Christianity does not do these things, why did the Jews come to a similar understanding? The logical answer would be that they saw this law as a restraint on already existing power and it effectively removed that power from parents.

      • inquisador says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 4:00 pm

        I too support Mr Dude in his attempts to challenge some of the questionable claims of some Christians and bring greater self-awareness and honesty to these kinds of discussion.

        I was recently flamed for bringing to attention the facts of stoning for adultery as proclaimed in the Bible and rather obviously influencing the laws that later became instated as Sharia.

        This should not be out of bounds for discussion, should it?

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 5:14 pm

          All Christians are aware that stoning was in the OT and maybe even was the basis for Islamic law. Just a pity that they didn`t take the NT as their source . If you want to discuss Christianity by taking the OT as yoursole source then you can`t complain if others show up your manifest errors.

  19. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 12:10 pm

    “In that case, do tell us where Jesus said that those who go on crusades, or burn witches, or perform inquisition, will go to heaven.” – Angemon

    They are EMULATING Jesus, as Revelation says that he will return with a sword sticking out of his mouth to kill many non-Christians. So arguably Jesus and pals will (supposedly) likely kill more non-believers in the future than even Mohammad killed in the past.

    Removing Revelation from the NT would be a great idea to promote peace, of course.

    • Angemon says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 12:21 pm

      Mr. Dude posted:

      “They are EMULATING Jesus”

      Please, point out in the Bible where Jesus went on a crusade, burned witches or performed the role of an inquisitor while saying it would grant him heaven.

      “Revelation says that he will return with a sword sticking out of his mouth to kill many non-Christians”
      And you were explained before how that was a metaphor and what it stood for.

      “So arguably Jesus and pals will (supposedly) likely kill”
      So, according to what you’re stating, christians burned witches in the past and went into military expeditions to protect christian kingdoms after centuries of unprovoked islamic aggression because somehow you decided that Jesus will arguably (supposedly) likely kill people in a future you don’t believe it will come to pass?

      • ecosse1314 says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:26 pm

        Mr Dude cannot say wrong he is the second coming of Mohmedawkins. We should not gainsay someone, the only one, that can speak the truth take care of his children and in his spare time totally re-interpret the bible. We live in glorious times indeed.

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:38 pm

        Revelation: Jesus returns to fight.
        http://www.thebricktestament.com/revelation/armageddon/rv19_11-12p15.html

        Yes, you might be right that some dead guy returning (with a sword or not) to life is a metaphor. So therefore Revelation is likely a metaphor, and that would mean that the resurrection is also a metaphor since it’s also a dead guy returning to life.

        • Angemon says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 12:50 pm

          Mr. Dude posted:

          “Yes, you might be right that some dead guy returning (with a sword or not) to life is a metaphor.”

          Here’s the passage you’re quoting:

          “Then I saw heaven open and there was a white horse, and its rider had eyes like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. ”

          Where does it talk about a dead guy returning to life?

          “ So therefore Revelation is likely a metaphor, and that would mean that the resurrection is also a metaphor since it’s also a dead guy returning to life.”

          Nope. The Gospels state that they are meant to be the historical record of the life of Jesus. Whether you believe that he died and resurrected is irrelevant, they are meant to be taken as an historical narrative.

    • Defcon 4 says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 12:28 pm

      Where does Revelation state that Jesus will come back and slay the unbeliever? Or are you substituting your islam0nazi version of Jesus, Issa, for the Christian version?

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:33 pm

        I said Jesus and pals. Jesus will lead an army. Like Mohammad lead an army of Muslims in battle.

        http://www.thebricktestament.com/revelation/armageddon/rv19_11-12p15.html
        …when in doubt use Legos! 🙂

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 12:41 pm

          Modawkins has spoken the first glorious chapter of his revelations. I for one can`t wait for the rest of it. He has also performed his first miracle by proving that a person who is more evil than some one can actually be less evil….a great philosopher and theologian has arisen amongst us and he is the only one who loves his kids.

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 12:45 pm

          Must be on Legos almost full-time

        • Defcon 4 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 5:00 pm

          Why am I not surprised your proof turns out to be BS?

  20. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 12:42 pm

    Angemon, it means that Manson was less evil in RELATIVE terms to Hitler, but being less evil in relative terms does not make Manson less evil in ABSOLUTE (vs. relative) terms. He was still evil, regardless of how he COMPARED to Hitler. Gandhi burning in hell for not sucking up to Jesus sill means that Jesus is evil, regardless that Mohammad is MORE evil than Jesus. Yes, Mohammad was more evil than Jesus.

    • Angemon says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:08 pm

      Mr. Dude posted:

      “Angemon, it means that Manson was less evil in RELATIVE terms to Hitler, but being less evil in relative terms does not make Manson less evil in ABSOLUTE (vs. relative) terms”

      So you’re saying that, in absolute terms, Charles Manson was as evil, or more evil, than Hitler. But not less evil, because he was less evil relatively. Truly, your brilliance knows no limits!!! (BTW, that last sentence is sarcastic. I’m outright telling you that because you don’t seem to have the ability of identifying and/or understanding sarcasm)

      BTW, it seems that both Hitler and Manson were atheists. Shouldn’t they have been moral human beings since they didn’t have to believe in magic and the afterlife, like you’ve been claiming?

  21. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 12:45 pm

    ecosse1314, speaking of parenting, if your children turn out to eventually be gay, would you kill them as the bible implies, or is the Bible/Islamic texts wrong? Which is it?

    • ecosse1314 says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 12:51 pm

      You have been told countless time that NT supersedes the OT. I take my cue from what Jesus said see Johen13-34

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 12:58 pm

        Then please tell us when you’ve done what Muslims should of course do: remove the offending part from those texts (ie remove that offending part from the Bible).

        Jesus said to remove body parts if they offend you, so why not simply remove (actually just not bring it forward in future printings) parts of a book you own that offends you. Makes sense, doesn’t it?
        Matthew 5:30: “And if your hand–even your stronger hand–causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.”

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:05 pm

          Makes no sense to remove what are obviously metaphors on the outside chance some idiot takes it literally

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 1:06 pm

        So just admit that the OT is wrong.
        We both agree that the Islamic texts that say to kill gays are wrong, so just agree that, also, the OT is wrong. If you won’t do that then you’re not being as honest as a Modern Secular Humanist.

        When you admit that that part of the OT is wrong, then we’ll move onto Genesis (vs. evolution) being wrong. Then we’ll move onto….

        I’ve just done that exercise more than you have, that’s all. Eventually people will see that I’m right.

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:24 pm

          Just because your child-like brain would be unable to spell metaphor never mind recognise does not mean a whole library has to changed. Most of us are mature enough to recognise that a lot of the OT is a descriptive text and only complete morons would take it literally….As for you winning arguments don`t make me laugh someone who thinks mo was more evil than Jesus but Jesus was no less evil obviously has a severe logic problem.

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 1:25 pm

        In Mt 5:17 Jesus allegedly said he has come to FULFILL the old laws. THAT’S why Christians can’t remove the OT from the Bible, because Jesus endorsed the old laws.
        The old laws included killing gays, women are scum, etc.

        Mt 5:17: “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I didn’t come to destroy them, but to fulfill them,”

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:33 pm

          Operative word is “Fulfil”… I have put in caps in case you missed it.

        • Angemon says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:37 pm

          ecosse1314 posted:

          “Operative word is “Fulfil”… I have put in caps in case you missed it.”

          You did what where?

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:40 pm

          I didn`t I was wrong..mea culpa

    • ecosse1314 says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 12:53 pm

      Please can u cool it modawkins as I am beginning to feel faintly embarrassed about you

      • inquisador says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 4:06 pm

        Don’t you mean you are beginning to feel faint?

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 4:33 pm

          I am sorry you have a problem with the English language but I wrote what I wrote…hope that helps.

  22. MikeRyan says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 12:58 pm

    Fact: Neither Judaism or Christianity condemn slavery in their core texts.

    Fact: “Slavery” as it is recorded in the Written Torah is quite a different animal than the chattel slavery that existed in the United States prior to the Civil War. It was regulated, limited in its duration, and controlled by many mitsvot which prevented cruelty to the slave.

    Fact: Despite its never having condemned slavery, and its usually having tolerated its existence in the nations in which it was the majority faith, the cruelty and usually accompanied chattel slavery was in direct violation to the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.

    Fact: Islam enshrines slavery in its legal code and has never condemned it.
    Slavery exists de facto throughout the Muslim world and its perpetuation is mandated by Islamic laws that have never been outlawed.

    No Christian or Jew today would argue for enslavement in any form.

    The problem: Slavery continues to be perpetuated and enshrined by Islamic law whereas Judaism and Christianity both have outlawed it.

    • Mr. Dude says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:03 pm

      Mike, if you had Jesus’ superpowers, and the responsibility that goes with it, and claimed to be all-knowing and the best moral leader of all time, would YOU have said 3 little words “no slavery period” about the worst atrocity in human history, at least once over a 33 year period? How about over a 2000 year period? Mike, if you answer “yes”, then realize that you are better than Jesus in that one extremely important area.

      • ecosse1314 says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 1:07 pm

        answer John13 34…you complete imbecile I think that covers slavery and a lot more

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:14 pm

          I’ll take it you would have NOT uttered those 3 little words. I would have, of course, and so would Dawkins/Harris/Darwin.

          I can say that Darwin was wrong on some things (yes, he was wrong, on a number of things), can you say that Jesus was wrong on some things?

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:22 pm

          Note: if the Bible contradicts itself, that means that it’s even more screwed up than you realize.

      • Eels says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 6:38 pm

        Mr. Dude. Pop quiz.

        Which book motivated William Wilberforce to spend his entire life working to emancipate slaves?

        A. Dehlia Smith’s How to Cook.
        B. Stop Yourself Toad Sexing, a handbook for compulsive Toad Sexers.
        C. The Bible.
        D. Oprah, The Opera, the libretto.
        E. Less is More is Less.( Relatively.) Logic for buffoons – Mr Dude.

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 7:52 pm

          “Which book motivated William Wilberforce to spend his entire life working to emancipate slaves?”

          IF JESUS HAD SAID 3 LITTLE WORDS (“NO MORE SLAVERY”) THEN SLAVERY WOULD NOT HAVE GONE ON FOR 1800 YEARS AFTER HIS DEATH AND WILBERFORCE COULD HAVE SPENT HIS TIME ON SOMETHING ELSE!!

        • Champ says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 7:59 pm

          Hey wait a minute …

          Mr. Delusional *insists* that Jesus did not exist, so why does he keep criticizing someone he claims never existed? He doesn’t make sense — again. Big surprise, another huge contradiction from this lying clown.

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 8:06 pm

          “Mr. Delusional *insists* that Jesus did not exist, so why does he keep criticizing someone he claims never existed?” – Champ

          I won’t bother doing this every time, I’m too busy, but in a perfect world I’d insert the words “allegedly said” before quoting Jesus of the Bible. That could get a little tiresome to read every single time, however.

        • Angemon says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 8:14 pm

          Champ posted:

          “Hey wait a minute …

          Mr. Delusional *insists* that Jesus did not exist, so why does he keep criticizing someone he claims never existed? He doesn’t make sense — again. Big surprise, another huge contradiction from this lying clown.”

          He never made any sense to begin with. If he were a modern secular humanist like he claims he’s have no bone to pick with any faith whose adherents don’t want to force it upon others as the law of the land. Secularism, separation of religion and state. Freedom from religion and freedom of religion. I can’t think of any country/state/nation ruled by biblical law. Not even Israel or the Vatican. And yet, if we were to believe mr. Dude’s claims (and he’s been proven wrong about every claim he made regarding the bible), christians and jews are killing gays and forcing people into slavery and therefore they can’t complain about the islamic countries who actually kill gays and enforce slavery. His agenda is quite obvious.

  23. mortimer says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 1:02 pm

    In other words, forget looking for ‘moderates’. Jihad is normative.

  24. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 1:12 pm

    “You’ve been told before that the NT supersedes the OT. ”
    I was also told before, when I was young, that Jesus’ magic was real. Then I grew up. I don’t believe everything I’m told, unlike people who will believe in a talking dead guy (or like Muslims who believe that a pedo is the best role model of all time). Let’s think for ourselves.

    • ecosse1314 says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:17 pm

      Complete and utter nonsense…you are making things up to continue your spurious and laboured arguments. I am beginning to think you are a troll

    • Angemon says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:29 pm

      Mr. Dude posted:

      ““You’ve been told before that the NT supersedes the OT. ”
      I was also told before, when I was young, that Jesus’ magic was real. Then I grew up. I don’t believe everything I’m told
      ”

      So you’re saying you don’t believe the way christians interpret their own texts says that the NT supersedes the OT. That still doesn’t make your ignorant criticism valid. In fact, you look even more of a fool: you’re not criticising christian beliefs, you’re criticising what you claim that are christian beliefs. In logic that’s called a “Strawman”. A straw man is a common type of argument based on the misrepresentation of the original topic of argument. To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument. Which is not what’s happening here. You’ve been corrected and educated many times by many different users.

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 1:39 pm

        The Bible says that a snake can talk, do you advise that Christians simply say that the Bible got that part wrong?

  25. ecosse1314 says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 1:15 pm

    The fact is that Mr Dude will never have any credibility until he recognises that Jesus did say Love thy neighbour as thyself. With that one statement Jesus condemned any humans mistreating another.

    • Mr. Dude says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:20 pm

      So by your logic, if it could be shown that HITLER said the same thing, then Hitler could not be condemned for anything bad either, correct?

      • ecosse1314 says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 1:28 pm

        If that is your idea of logic it almost makes your earlier mo was more evil statement comprehensible

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 2:23 pm

          For the record, no, OVERALL Jesus was not MORE evil than Mohammad. They both have their good and evil points.

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 2:52 pm

          Doody you are so delusional

      • ecosse1314 says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 1:30 pm

        Tell you what I can prove Jesus said “love thy neighbour” so now with your incomparable logic can you prove Jesus said slavery is good.

        • Mr. Dude says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:36 pm

          Hitler didn’t necessarily have to spell out to kill the Jews, necessarily, just like Jesus never had to overtly say “slavery is wonderful!” (he didn’t.)

          1. The “moral teacher” Jesus never spoke out against the worst moral crime in history.

          2a. You would think that Jesus and the New Testament would have a different view of slavery, but slavery is still approved of in the New Testament, as the following passages show.
          Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

          2 b.
          Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

          3. In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.
          The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:56 pm

          Jesus spoke in parables that would be understood by people of his time and most people in later ages(I am leaving you out of that statement Doody). As slavery was a normative part of human life at that time he used it in these parables

  26. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 1:18 pm

    “Where does it talk about a dead guy returning to life? ” – Angemon

    Seriously, dude, you don’t think that the Bible says that Jesus returned to “life” (i.e. he’s not dead anymore) in the resurrection? Christians don’t consider dead…they consider Einstein dead, but not Jesus. I’m going to be replying to you less and less if you continue to make no sense (Mohammad made no sense, so let’s not be like Mohammad.)

    • Angemon says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:30 pm

      Mr. Dude posted:

      “Seriously, dude, you don’t think that the Bible says that Jesus returned to “life” (i.e. he’s not dead anymore) in the resurrection?”

      Nice try buddy, but you stated that a prophecy in revelation mentioned a dead guy returning to life. I quoted from the link you posted and nothing there mentioned about a dead guy returning to life, so i asked you about it.

      Here’s the passage you’re quoting:

      “Then I saw heaven open and there was a white horse, and its rider had eyes like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. ”

      Where in there does it talk about a dead guy returning to life?

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 1:32 pm

        Not in that part (I was wrong if I implied that), but in other parts of the book, which of course makes it no less important, arguably. In Revelation he will return to earth.

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 1:39 pm

          You have been proved wrong 50% of the time. The rest of the time you have just failed to reply.

  27. Champ says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 1:33 pm

    People like “Mr. Delusional” come from the moral equivalency crowd, and Robert tackles this mindset in one of his books …

    “Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn’t”

    Christianity or Islam: which is the real “religion of peace”?
    Almost any liberal pundit will tell you that there’s a religion bent on destroying our Constitution, stripping us of our liberties, and imposing religious rule on the U.S. And that religion is . . .Christianity! About Islam, however, the Left is silent–except to claim a moral equivalence between the two: if Islam has terrorists today, that’s nothing compared to the Crusades, inquisitions, and religious wars in Christianity’s past.

    But is this true? Are conservative Christians really more of a threat to free societies than Islamic jihadists? Is the Bible really “just as violent” as the Qur’an? Is Christianity’s history really as bloodstained as Islam’s? In Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn’t, New York Times bestselling author Robert Spencer not only refutes such charges, but also explains why Americans and Europeans must regain an appreciation of our Christian heritage if we ever hope to defeat Islamic supremacism. In this eye opening work, Spencer reveals:

    * The fundamental differences between Islamic and Christian teachings about warfare against other religions: “Love your enemies” vs. “Be ruthless to the unbelievers”

    * The myth of Western immorality and Islamic puritanism and why the Islamic world is less moral than the West

    * Why the Islamic world has never developed the distinction between religious and secular law that is inherent in Christianity

    * Why Christianity has always embraced reason–and Islam has always rejected it

    * Why the most determined enemies of Western civilization may not be the jihadists at all, but the leftists who fear their churchgoing neighbors more than Islamic terrorists

    * Why Jews, Christians, and peoples of other faiths (or no faith) are equally at risk from militant Islam

    Spencer writes not to proselytize, but to state a fact: Christianity is a true “religion of peace,” and on it Western civilization stands. If we are not to perish under Islam’s religion of the sword–with its more than 100 million active jihadists seeking to impose sharia law–we had better defend our own civilization.

    http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Peace-Christianity-Islam-Isnt/dp/1596985151

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Mr. Delusional needs to purchase this book and stat! …especially if he plans on contributing further to Jihad Watch; if not, then he will remain a fool and in darkness regarding the truth about Christianity vs islam.

    • Daniel says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:42 pm

      Judging by the way he grabs Scripture passages, when Mr. Dude’s mother told him to pick up his room did he:

      a. Begin to sort through the mess and put it away?

      b. Find a jack, crowbar, and some wood to try to lift the foundation?

      I’m guessing “b.”

      • Champ says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 3:22 pm

        Good one! …no kidding 😀

    • Kalliope says

      Mar 13, 2014 at 6:20 am

      @Champ

      Splendid post.
      Moral equivalency maybe the death of us all.

  28. ecosse1314 says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 1:37 pm

    Will Dude prove us wrong and shows us where Jesus said Slavery is good…and contradicts Love thy neighbour

    • Mr. Dude says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 2:02 pm

      I said he ACCEPTED slavery.

      • ecosse1314 says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 2:06 pm

        Why would you love your neighbour by making them a slave???Mind you knowing you and your previous track record you will turn it into a form of sexual slavery.

  29. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 1:42 pm

    “Operative word is “Fulfil”… I have put in caps in case you missed it.” ecsse1314.

    He said old LAWS not old prophecies.

    • ecosse1314 says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 1:48 pm

      Jesus said I give thee a new commandment Love thy neighbour…. That is for the hard of thinking that all previous laws were fulfilled to perfection by that new commandment. So all previous mosaic laws that contradicted that new commandment were thereby obsolete.

  30. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 2:07 pm

    “As slavery was a normative part of human life at that time he used it in these parables”
    Jesus was not bright enough, or not moral enough to include in said confusing parables these 3 words in parenthesis “…slavery (which is wrong)….”

    I bet most of your children are smart enough to do that, or just smart enough to not use an immoral practice in a parable in the first place! Let’s have high standards when it comes to Islam: defeat letting old men rape 9 year olds in forced marriages.
    To not be hypocrites, we ALSO have to have high standards in regards to our OWN texts (Bible, or whatever you believe.)

    • ecosse1314 says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 2:15 pm

      Wrong on so many counts(no change there then). He could not make it any clearer in saying “love thy neighbour…) that you should treat other people as you would like to be so treated. That is clear to everyone today maybe not so in past times but with the enlightenment people saw and understood what Christ was saying. Some people like your dude self obviously are oblivious to it.

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 2:20 pm

        The following say the same thing, in different words, so why do you believe that they are false and Jesus is the only one who is the one true god?
        Buddhism.
        Hinduism.
        Jainism.
        Sikh.
        Zoroastrainsm.
        Etc.
        Etc.
        Etc.

        • ecosse1314 says

          Mar 12, 2014 at 2:25 pm

          Can you point out me where I said any or all of these faiths are wrong???.

    • ecosse1314 says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 2:19 pm

      I am sorry you find parables confusing as my five year old can understand them quite easily but this might be part of your problem.

  31. voegelinian says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 2:27 pm

    The plague of Mr. Dude polluting Jihad Watch comments for days now is an excellent example of one of the important reasons why I tried to get an email community of Jihad Watch readers going about a year ago. That community fizzled because readers either were not interested or were outright hostile to me either in that context or here at Jihad Watch for other unfair reasons (Philip Jihadski comes to mind).

    If we had such a community thriving now (which takes you guys, not me, to make it happen, since I spent time and energy trying to make it happen), we could have an email conference about the Mr. Dude problem and present a united front to Robert Spencer to have him banned.

    • Mr. Dude says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 3:29 pm

      Or, if you felt you had the truth on your side, you’d DEBATE me and of course you’d win if you had the truth on your side. That would be a better way. But it’s hard to believe one has the truth on one’s side if their texts have a talking snake, unicorns, jinns, giants, dragons, talking donkeys, invisible people with wings on that fly around, etc.

      Or where am I wrong?

      • ecosse1314 says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 4:03 pm

        You have been debated ad infinitum; you have been soundly defeated on every proposal you made. Now you just repeat your tedious nonsense .So Mr dude we thee implore, to go away and write no more; but if that effort be too great then go away at any rate.

    • Mirren10 says

      Mar 12, 2014 at 3:32 pm

      ” … present a united front to Robert Spencer to have him banned.”

      Why not just ignore him? No point in posting reams of drivel, if no-one responds.

      • Mr. Dude says

        Mar 12, 2014 at 8:16 pm

        Or better yet, point out the flaws in logic (if you can find them) in posts you don’t agree with.
        For instance, when I point out that Mohammad said in Q4:34 to BEAT one’s wife (and that the Bible says that your mother is only worth 1/2 a man), why not point out where I’m wrong? Unless of course you AGREE with the Abrahamic faith’s hatred of women.

  32. ecosse1314 says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 2:27 pm

    Could you please enlighten me as to where I wrote that any or all of these faiths are false.

  33. Paula Gibbs says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 2:32 pm

    AIDING AND ABETTING A MURDER!!! Gets the same penalty as the actual murderer!. The Imam should be executed without delay. Then justice triumphs!

  34. Mr. Dude says

    Mar 12, 2014 at 9:05 pm

    I didn’t I was wrong..mea culpa” – ecosse1314

    No problem. We on this thread forgive you.
    Wouldn’t it be great if Allah could be as forgiving as us on this forum are! You know, to FORGIVE people who are moral, but who simply don’t suck up to the pedophile Mohammad.

    Wouldn’t it also be great if Jesus would forgive the billions and billions of people who are allegedly going to “hell” for making an honest mistake, as well? I would forgive, so why can’t Jesus? I thought he was more moral than I was. Just THINK how great “heaven” would be with Ben Franklin, Gandhi, Einstein, etc.

    Allah/Jesus: you dudes might want to convert to Modern Secular Humanism.

  35. Davegreybeard says

    Mar 13, 2014 at 2:43 am

    I suspect that the hostile Atheist stance that Mr. Dude affects is just a mask for a hidden Islamist agenda.

    Sow distrust, confusion and distraction amongst the Infidel enemy.

    Whatever he is, he certainly is an obnoxious asshole.

    • Champ says

      Mar 13, 2014 at 3:02 am

      I completely agree, Davegreybeard!

    • gravenimage says

      Mar 13, 2014 at 5:42 am

      Davegreybeard wrote:

      I suspect that the hostile Atheist stance that Mr. Dude affects is just a mask for a hidden Islamist agenda.

      Sow distrust, confusion and distraction amongst the Infidel enemy.
      …………………………………….

      I believe you’re correct, Dave, and have said as much on other threads.

      “Mr. Dude’s” usual M.O. is to throw Anti-Jihadists a bone with some off-hand criticism of Islam, then go off on a multi-paragraph rant about the (supposed) evils of Christianity.

      I find it less and less plausible that “Mr. Dude” is actually what he purports to be.

      Whatever the case, though, his agenda is abundantly clear: to distract from the threat of Jihad.

      How many of the posts on this thread have actually addressed the appalling Islamic justification for savagery in the story above?

      As a result of “Mr. Dude’s” endless spamming, very few.

  36. Eels says

    Mar 13, 2014 at 4:43 am

    Mr Dude

    “IF JESUS HAD SAID 3 LITTLE WORDS (“NO MORE SLAVERY”) THEN SLAVERY WOULD NOT HAVE GONE ON FOR 1800 YEARS AFTER HIS DEATH AND WILBERFORCE COULD HAVE SPENT HIS TIME ON SOMETHING ELSE!!”

    Said you, in capitals and with two exclamation marks no less.

    If you think Jesus’s words have such power (your capitals and exclamation marks indicate you do) then ,may I suggest you read them and learn about the man. He will suprise you. Furthermore it would be impossible, I would suggest. for any one with a reading comprension ability beyond that of an infant, to read the sayings of Jesus and not conclude that his passion and love and support was for the underdog. Always.

    Besides, the freedom Jesus offers is internal, it is freedom despite circumstance, not freedom from circumstance.

  37. Cindy Mccoy says

    Mar 13, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    The human heart cab justify anything. And if you don’t have the real God( Jesus Christ ) to help you see the truth you will always do things that God hates. We can’t be good and please God without Him!! But without Him, the human heart is so vile and can justify anything!!

  38. dumbledoresarmy says

    Mar 17, 2014 at 6:30 am

    From the article – “Radical Islam is a creation of people who do not believe in Islam. We don’t have radical Islam, we don’t have moderates, we don’t have extremists. Islam is one religion following the Koran and the Sunnah,” said Makaburi….”.

    “Islam is one religion”.

    Conor Cruise O’Brien saw that very clearly, back in 1994.

    Here’s the article, for the record, and to take the thread back on topic.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-lesson-of-algeria-islam-is-indivisible-1566770.html

    CONOR CRUISE O’BRIEN
    Friday 6 January 1995
    The lesson of Algeria: Islam is indivisible

    “Fundamentalist Islam” is a misnomer which dulls our perceptions in a dangerous way.

    ‘It does so by implying that there is some other kind of Islam, which is well disposed to those who reject the Koran.]
    ‘ There isn’t.
    ‘Islam is a universalist, triumphalist and political religion. It claims de jure dominion over all humanity; that is God’s will.

    ‘The actual state of affairs, with unbelievers of various sorts dominating most of the world, is a suspension of God’s will and a scandal to the faithful.

    ‘The world is divided between the House of Islam and the House of War, meaning the rest of us…”.

    Click on the link, read it all. Mr O’Brien, a nonreligious and fiercely anticlerical Irishman, had no truck with the vulgar moral equivalence that the likes of Mr Dude have been peddling in this thread. Here’s what O’Brien had to say, a bit further along in his article:

    “”All the great religions are the same” is the idea.

    ‘Only they aren’t. [and that is the case whether the person saying ‘they’re all the same’ believes that they are all bad (like Islam indubitably is) or whether the person believes that they are all ‘good’]

    ‘The Clintonian world view observes [sic: probably ‘obscures’] the hard specificity of Islam.

    ‘The Prophet Mohamed did not offer his followers a chance to live in harmony with their neighbours.

    ‘He taught them to fight their neighbours, if they were unbelievers, and kill them or beat them into submission.

    ‘And it is futile to say of those Muslims who faithfully follow those teachings today that their actions are “not intrinsically related to Islam”.

    ‘We are facing an Islamic revival….

    ‘How the West should cope with the Islamic revival is a complex matter.

    ‘But one thing is clear: we can never get it right if we go on trying to believe that there is something called “Islamic fundamentalism” which is somehow not intrinsically related to Islam itself.’

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