The WSJ story is more recent than the Reuters one below it. In the Reuters piece, officials are saying that they suspect the Uighur jihadists but have nothing definitive to link the attack to them. Then this cryptically reported statement from an unnamed “previously unknown group” strongly suggests that the plane crash was a jihad attack, without coming out and saying so. The story, obviously, is developing.
239 people were killed.
“Vietnam Searchers Report Spotting Plane Debris,” by Jason Ng, Gaurav Raghuvanshi and Jake Maxwell Watts for the Wall Street Journal, March 9 (thanks to WTD):
On Sunday afternoon, a statement issued in the name of a previously unknown group claimed that the disappearance of the plane was a political act aimed at the Chinese and Malaysian governments and referred to last week’s attack in a Chinese train station by alleged Uighur separatists. It stopped short of a claim of responsibility. Malaysian officials said that they were unaware of any claim of responsibility but would investigate all possibilities.
“Malaysia investigators probe possible airport security lapse,” by Niluksi Koswanage for Reuters, March 9:
…UIGHUR LINK “NOT RULED OUT”
The timing of the incident, a week after knife-wielding assailants killed at least 29 people at a train station in the southwestern Chinese city of Kunming, led to speculation that militants from China’s Uighur Muslim minority could be involved.
One of the Malaysian officials said the authorities were not ruling out Uighur involvement in the jet’s disappearance, noting that Uighurs were deported to China from Malaysia in 2011 and 2012 for carrying false passports.
“This is not being ruled out. We have sent back Uighurs who had false passports before. It is too early to say whether there is a link,” the official said.
Malaysia, a Muslim-majority country that has courted close ties with Beijing in recent years, deported 11 Uighurs in 2011 it said were involved in a human smuggling syndicate.
The next year, it was condemned by U.S.-based Human Rights Watch for deporting six Uighurs the rights group described as asylum seekers. Human Rights Watch said the six had been detained while trying to leave Malaysia on fake passports.
A source with ties to the Chinese leadership said there was no confirmed connection to Uighur militants, but described the timing as “very suspicious” coming so soon after the Kunming attack.
Li Jiheng, governor of Yunnan province where Kunming is located, told reporters on Sunday that there was currently no information to show that the knife attack and the missing flight were “necessarily connected”….
Champ says
“Malaysia Airlines crash: terror fear over four mystery passengers on missing plane MH370”
Excerpt:
Air safety experts are investigating whether an airliner that mysteriously vanished in the Far East could have been the target of a terrorist attack.
More than twenty-four hours after Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 disappeared over the South China Sea, the only clue to the fate of its 239 passengers and crew was the revelation that the identities of four people on board, including two using stolen passports, were being investigated.
The disclosure raised fears that terrorists could have used false passports to board the craft, which vanished with no prior signals of trouble to air traffic controllers.
Those fears increased when Malaysian authorities later confirmed that they were liaising with the FBI over the suspect identities. The four under suspicion had all bought their flight tickets through China Southern Airlines, said a security official.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10685413/Malaysia-Airlines-crash-terror-fears-over-stolen-passports-used-on-missing-plane-MH370.html
Stephen Poole says
… Let’s not forget here people … The two passengers with forged passports had other airplane connections to catch, once they reached China … Just sayin’ … SP OX …
keyesforpres says
They probably did that to thwart suspicion.
panther says
A connecting flight means passenger in ‘Transit’. No Chinese required for ‘Transit’ passengers, easy to board the plane with no Chinese visa requirement.
david wilson says
They never had visas to enter China, they would have had to of done it this way, just to aquire the ticket.
Usual suspects says
I suspect those 5 people that checked in but did not board might witness the most critical information that alerted them to turn back. I wonder why authorities did not investigate.
Davegreybeard says
Flying Jihadis?
I’ll bet $100 on the Come.
Tradewinds says
First thing I thought of concerning this plane was – Muslims.
Mirren10 says
Yep. Me too.
And where is mazo to tell us it’s not so ?
Champ says
“First thing I thought of concerning this plane was – Muslims.”
Exactly, Tradewinds! …yes, this tragedy has all the earmarks of islamic terrorism.
Tradewinds says
It does, doesn’t it? Anything mass-murdering has the sound of Islam.
Champ says
Yes, and 9/11 taught us how much islamic terrorists enjoy using planes for jihad. As you know, islamic jihad should NOT be ruled out.
Tradewinds says
The Muslims did it of course, following their “religion” of mass-murder. Islam and Muslims a plague on the world that should be eradicated.
Jay Boo says
To bend over backward and suspect non-Muslims would be politically correct bigotry.
There were some telltale signs (once again)
wtd says
Malaysia Flight Passenger Manifest, pdf
UK Telegraph:
Washington Post: FOUR flew with false ID aboard Malaysia Airlines plane that vanished over South China Sea
via CBC News: Malaysia Airlines missing jet: Interpol probes more suspect passports
via Calcutta News: Travel by passengers with stolen identities can be prevented . . .but apparently WASN’T
via: NPR
Quote:
Washington Post:
via Straitstimes.com
via FoxNews
via CNN:
Jay Boo says
Dogs have extra sensory capabilities
Count the number of dogs lifting one leg in the direction of Mecca the most unholy place of Islam to be certain of who was responsible.
Champ says
One of the Malaysian officials said the authorities were not ruling out Uighur involvement in the jet’s disappearance, noting that Uighurs were deported to China from Malaysia in 2011 and 2012 for carrying false passports. — headline
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Indeed …
And more information is coming in from different news agencies which suggests that this plane crash was in fact islamic terrorism:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-who-3222758
wtd says
AsiaOneNews link to your quote…
Thx.
Champ says
You’re welcome!
Shmuel says
I’m pretty sure finally they would find out it’s an Islamic terrorist attack, as usual.
Everytime there is a similar event 99.99% that’s an Islamic attack.
RCCA says
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-early-3222594
“We know there are terrorist cells within the Uighur minority in China.
They are Muslim separatist militants and have carried out a number of terrorist attacks in China.
Only last weekend they were blamed by some for the knife slashing attack at Kunming railway station in China’s Yunnan province, which left 29 people dead.
It is not beyond the bounds of possibility these people could be involved in the latest incident – either Uighurs themselves or other Islamist terrorists seeking to support them.
Uighur terrorists are known to have links with al Qaeda. Several have been captured by US forces in Afghanistan since 2002.
And we know that Islamist terrorists remain obssessed with attacks carried out using aircraft.
In the mid-1990s an Islamist terror plot called Operation Bojinka, based in the Philippines, included plans to bring down aircraft flying from countries in South East Asia. It didn’t work.
Since 9/11 we have seen many other attempts to use planes as weapons or blow them up in mid-air.
The intention of Islamist terrorists to bring down an aircraft is a known fact. All these things point to a distinct possibilty that it could be terrorism.
If so, it will be regarded as a major spectacular by the terrorists.”
by Col Richard Kemp, former head of counter-terrorism for the Joint Intelligence Committee and chairman of Cobra.
Buraq says
@ hogwash aka watch dawg
I’d bet the farm that Islam brought down this flight. Islam and planes go together, like Islam and honor killing and FGM. Investigators are thinking along these lines now, not just me.
You’re a wire-wigged, red-nosed, baggy-trousered clown! And a liar.
Eels says
WatchDawg appears completely unable to learn from his or her mistakes.
He or she was wrong about the knife wielders in China, but as far as I can see hasn’t acknowledged this, and he or she will sadly, be wrong about this too.
None so blind as them that won’t see.
Defcon 4 says
CrotchDawg (a hilarious moniker) knows there’s no point in lying about the islamic terrorist attack at the Chinese train station now. I predict the same thing will happen in the instant case.
Islam_Macht_Frei says
From the NY Times:
““It is fairly unusual to have more than one person flying on a flight with a stolen passport,” said Mr. Vickers, who publicly warned a month ago that stolen airport passes and other identity documents in Asia merited a crackdown. “The future of this investigation lies in who really checked in and what they looked like,” he added.”
Well, if they let Burka Babes through w/o peeking under the Burka, that could explain a lot….
duh_swami says
I suspect foul play, And who are the most foul players on the planet? If you guessed Lutherans, or Episcopalians, you are wrong. Guess again.
I’m suspecting jihad, and will continue suspecting jihad until there is conclusive evidence that it was not.
Defcon 4 says
The Amish? After all, they have their own mafia!
RoofGardener says
Meh…. FAR to early to be throwing these theories around.
Personally, I don’t think terrorism is likely. It took WAY too long for this group to come forwards to claim responsibility, and they refuse to state how the attack would have been accomplished.
It is VERY difficult to smuggle explosives aboard an airliner these days.
Ditto, it is very difficult to access the cockpit in flight.
Islamisdeath says
Inside job.
SpiritOf1683 says
So it seems Muslims have to be banned from flying. Perhaps they should be made to walk.
Oh wait! 🙁
voegelinian says
Hugh Fitzgerald once wrote an essay about how Muslims should have their own airline. Our PC MC idiots in the West, of course, would then protest and cry out “Rosa Parks!”
wtd says
voegelinian – the idea of Muslims being restricted to travelling on their own airline would not have prevented 9/11, they simply would fly their own planes into the towers.
veggiedog says
No, those planes would never have gotten as far as these airliners did.
voegelinian says
A free world that has recovered its rational sanity enough to relegate all Muslims to their own airlines, would also be a world that would shoot down any of those Muslim planes the instant they cross our air space (and would be a world where Muslims are not allowed to fly into the Dar-al-Harb in the first place).
voegelinian says
Someone should create an adjunct website called Eggface Watch, to document every time the usual suspects of demurrers chided and lectured us about jumping the gun to accuse Muslims every time there is a major terror attack — and every time those demurrers were wrong and we were, all along, right.
Defcon 4 says
I still remember the ludicrous speculating about the identity of the Boston Marathon bombers and how desperate the lamestream media seemed to be to pin it on right-wing Christian fundamentalists. Once the truth was out though then the ludicrous speculation revolved around what the possible motives could be. A nation or civilisation that lies about the nature of its enemies is dying.
voegelinian says
Not only the mainstream media; certain commenters in Jihad Watch also chided us for jumping the gun about the Boston Marathon razzia. Hm, what were their names again…?
Wellington says
A jetliner goes down in the ocean? OK, after eliminating the two possibilities of mechanical failure and Islamic terrorism, one is faced with other possibilities that could only remotely be the cause. And this speaks volumes about Islam, even though rubes like Watchdog would malevolently and stupidly, in full distraction mode, argue otherwise.
veggiedog says
To stay on point, when will the world have enough, do as the famous Nancy Reagan would have said, Just say NO….but to be real, enough already, time to just chop off their dicks so they cannot reproduce.
veggiedog says
Sorry if that was a bit on the vulgar side, I am not sure what possessed me.
Steffen Larsen says
Only those looking for anything as bad as islamic supremacism and jihadism – and in the process ignoring the rest of the world news posted here on JW – enjoy comments like that, sorry.
The Dawg wets his pants when he has the great luck to come across it.
EYESOPEN says
Veggiedog, to be quite honest, since I’ve seen that quote now over a dozen times on this particular thread, I have broken out in uncontrollable paroxysms of laughter each time. Sorry, couldn’t help it. There’s just something about that quote that strikes me as funny. Can’t imagine what that could be…
veggiedog says
Guess if you make a post not to the Dawg he will try to bsit one with it. He does not know it is illegal to use copywrite info…. Poor poor boy, i think he is very young aside from beind stupid. I must have struck a nerve, srpeems he may be missing some msle enhsncements. So sorry you sre inadequate. So sirry you need to take things not stated to you and try to make them a personal attack on you. I don’t attack an idiot on this board, i just speak the truth about a so called religion that is at best barbaric.
😉
citycat says
Considering the fact that they declitorize the women, i think it is simply a balancing thing to totally desensitize the end of the wang so that the male Muslim can have the same personal treatment that the women are forced to undergo.
The males can then understand what the reduction in the sexual experience can do to a person’s mind, and all this especially because it is forced upon the women.
I know Muslim women that have such hatred for Islam, because of their being mutilated against their will, that the hatred has made those women ill.
Anyone who thinks that men and women are not equal is beneath contempt and probably a reincarnation of a dog, proving that Gadaffi was right when he accused the Muslims, attacking him, of being reincarnations of dogs.
veggiedog says
Yes, i do understand… Struck a nerve and wasn’t even addressing the child. Sorry for my uPad typos.
BlueRaven says
The sudden lost of the radar detection of an airborne aircraft at the crusing altitude suggests the following possibilities:
1 A missile attack;
2 A bomb on the aircraft exploding;
3 An ultra speed meteoroid collision;
4 Sudden structural combustion;
5 Sudden loss of the avionics computers;
6 Pilot on a suicide mission
Points 2 an 6 indicate the islamic terrorism.
Point 1 – a missile would be picked up by the US Satellites;
Piont 4 – the aircraft’s frame was recently checked by Boeing : all OKed
Point 5 – the pilot has several means to send distress signals to the nearest airfield if the flight and safety critical computers fail and he didn’t;
Point 3 – there is a small probabilty an ultra rapid small sized meteoroid could instantaneously knock the aircraft out of the ski like it has happened. Then the aircraft will be found a long way off from where it was last detected.
Islamic terror attack is weighing heavely against all odds – because that is what the Muslims do – try to scare the people off into submission- the true meaning of ISLAM is submission without any qualifier how to achieve that. Terror appears to be the method used most of the time.
dumbledoresarmy says
There’s a further possibility: that either the pilot or copilot had an allahgasm, like that Egyptian airlines pilot who plunged his plane into the sea some years ago.
Something like that would be Islam-related – that is, caused by the mess that Islam makes of someone’s head – but not carried out by card-carrying members of a named Jihad gang.
BlueRaven says
the word ‘loss’ should replace ‘lost’ – my aplogy.
Raymond Hietapakka says
What are the odds that it was a terrorist musel-maniac that brought the plane down? Probably something like 97%.
wtd says
Italian man Luigi Maraldi reveals how his passport used on flight MH370 was stolen in bizarre circumstances in Thailand
EYESOPEN says
I’m waiting for the leftists pundits to openly admit that they hope that it was whit Christians angry at the government. One can never underestimate stupidity. It’s all over the Lame Scream Media.
EYESOPEN says
Ooops. Sorry. That should have read: “white Christians”.
Mr. Dude says
If it does turn out to be caused by followers of religion, then can we finally start to once and for all get rid of the belief that “faith is good”, and that people (the “prophets”) who claim divine supernatural powers are just con-artists? Can we!?
Your input?
gravenimage says
“Mr. Dude” wrote:
If it does turn out to be caused by followers of religion…
…………………………..
More false moral equivalence from “Mr. Dude”—as though Seventh Day Adventists, Zen Buddhists, and Reform Jews are just as likely to commit violent terrorism as Jihadists. Ludicrous.
voegelinian says
Or Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Congregationalists, Baptists, Calvinists, Unitarians, Episcopalians, Quakers, Shakers, Mormons… not to mention Hindus, Buddhists, Animists of the South Pacific (the list is endless)… Hell, even headhunters and cannibals are infinitely less dangerous than Muslims.
Mo says
(Let’s see if it goes through this time. I hope I didn’t waste time, thought and energy only to have it not go through at all. The redesign has made it difficult for me to comment any longer.)
@ Mr. Dude –
“If it does turn out to be caused by followers of religion…”
Note the generic term, “followers of religion” , as though we are talking about just any ol’ religion. After all, everyone knows that any and all “followers of religion” are not only capable of this type of act, but have done it numerous times in years past. Right?
“… then can we finally start to once and for all get rid of the belief that “faith is good”, ”
Show me on this site where there’s talk of belief that “faith is good”? What faith? Where’s this talk? Show it to me on this site.
“and that people (the “prophets”) who claim divine supernatural powers are just con-artists? Can we!?”
What prophets are these? Where are they referred to and promoted on this site on a regular basis?
You sound like one of those anti-theist bigots who is so ignorant about religion in general that they lump all religions in as one giant entity, as though all religions teach more or less the same things.
Someone who is not so (willfully) ignorant knows that religions teach wildly different things, not just on minor issues, but on the fundamentals such as the nature of God, the nature of man, the purpose of this life, the nature of the afterlife, and salvation/redemption.
You asked for input. You got it. Now, please answer my specific questions.
Mr. Dude says
Poster “Mo” wrote: “the nature of the afterlife,”
Though well-intended, they pretty much teach their impressionable young children that either you win the theocratic lottery (out of the tens of thousands of religious super-heroes who have ever existed) by actually picking the one correct invisible super-hero of all time, or you’re such scum that you DESERVE worse treatment than Hitler gave the Jews, and for an infinitely longer time period as well. Hitler was a lightweight when it comes to punishing people who have done nothing wrong….religions are the kings of that. Gandhi is burning as we speak (followers of the Abrahamic faiths believe), and they are just fine with that. To a moral person, that’s patently unfair, especially since Allah/Jesus refuse to provide jury-level of proof of their divinity. “Have faith” means “we don’t have FACTS, so we’ll try to scare you into sucking up to us”.
I love religious people, and would love to see them embrace reality, and not faith.
Mr. Dude says
Mo wrote “Show me on this site where there’s talk of belief that “faith is good”? What faith? Where’s this talk? Show it to me on this site.”
1. I applaud this site’s efforts to bring down one of the Abrahamic faiths.
2. Robert says he’s a Catholic, so it’s clearly implied that faith is good (I’m assuming that “faith is good” is a core Christian doctrine, and I’m sure that’s correct.)
3. I have seen tons of posts on this site by JW supporters, who are Christians, who believe in god, because they have faith. There is no jury-level of evidence for god, so clearly they have faith. I can’t read minds but I’m pretty sure faith is rampant on the comment forums. (They are certainly entitled to their opinion, I believe, however.)
ploome says
does a bear sh*t in the woods??
Mr. Dude says
Thanks for that feedback.
You seem to think that religions are all great, however that’s not true.
In fact, the Abrahamic faiths are of course quite similar in many many ways (from the other thread):
The Abrahamic faiths (except Judaism) both have Jesus as a prophet, so both believe in, well, zombies.
The texts of all 3 are incredibly violent.
All 3 treat women as 1/2 a man.
All say to kill gays.
All believe that magic is real.
All teach that faith (belief w/out evidence) is good.
All steer people away from science and towards ancient superstitions.
All teach that, say, Gandhi is so terrible that he DESERVES to burn in some “hell”.
All are so arrogant that they don’t imply that their followers can/should IMPROVE the texts.
All accept slavery (unless of course they’ve removed slavery from the texts they give their impressionable children.)
All accept rape (unless of course they’ve removed the parts – 10 verses in the bible and many verses in Islam – that approve of rape.) http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm
Etc., etc.
I think that followers are well intended, but they need to embrace a reality-based belief system such as Modern Secular Humanism.
Mo says
@ Mr. Dude
“You seem to think that religions are all great, however that’s not true.”
I’ve said nothing regarding that issue, one way or the other.
“In fact, the Abrahamic faiths are of course quite similar in many many ways (from the other thread):”
This comment (and your other ones) demonstrate you know nothing about Judaism, Christianity or Islam.
Other than sharing some names/words, Islam is nothing like Judaism and Christianity. Nothing whatsoever. That’s basic knowledge here at JW.
You’ve answered none of my questions.
You are a troll. Stop wasting my time and energy.
Mo says
@ Mr. Dude
“You seem to think that religions are all great, however that’s not true.”
I’ve said nothing regarding that issue, one way or the other.
“In fact, the Abrahamic faiths are of course quite similar in many many ways (from the other thread):”
This comment (and your other ones) demonstrate you know nothing about Judaism, Christianity or Islam.
Other than sharing some names/words, Islam is nothing like Judaism and Christianity. Nothing whatsoever. That’s basic knowledge here at JW.
You’ve answered none of my questions.
You are a troll. Stop wasting my time and energy.
@ Philip Jihadski –
No, I will not go away. I have a right to voice my opinion, just as you do.
As to HuffPo, what does that place have to do with speaking out against jihad? Nothing.
Keep on with your vulgar, juvenile, filthy talk. All it does is bring down the reputation of this site. which is supposed to be about a serious topic. Give the Leftists at HuffPo reason to disparage us and this important issue.
Well done.
dumbledoresarmy says
You *do* realize, don’t you, that every single time you use the phrase “Abrahamic faiths” or “Abrahamic religions” you are using and perpetuating **a meme invented solely by MUSLIMS**??
Ask yourself where the line came from. Ask yourself where it originated. Did you invent it yourself or did you just kinda sop it up from the Zeist, think it sounded cool, and start using it?? If so…congratulations, you’ve just been taken in by… Islamic psy-ops.
Don’t use the phrase “Abrahamic religions” or “Abrahamic faiths”. It’s just as fake a term as “Islamophobia” (another propaganda meme invented by Muslims).
dumbledoresarmy says
Not “Zeist”.
dratted typo.
“Zeitgeist”.
Mo says
@ Dumbledorsarmy –
You can see the way this Mr. Dude has now entirely turned the discussion to be about the Bible. (Which, as you very well know, teaches nothing whatsoever comparable to what the Koran teaches.)
And people always fall for it! Before you know it, it the discussion has turned to this or that Bible passage which may or may not be quoted or understood correctly, and the next thing you know, we’re talking about the Bible instead of the Koran and Islam!
Again, as though the Bible/Christianity teaches ANYTHING remotely like what the Koran/Islam teaches.
Mirren10 says
”And people always fall for it! Before you know it, it the discussion has turned to this or that Bible passage which may or may not be quoted or understood correctly, and the next thing you know, we’re talking about the Bible instead of the Koran and Islam!”
Well said. I think ‘mr dude’ is yet another troll, albeit slightly cleverer than ‘watchdawg’.
The giveaway for me is when he says ; ” I was wrong in thinking that he is a zombie in BOTH Christianity and Islam….he’s only a zombie in CHRISTianity”, and ; ”People on this site don’t seem to understand that the Bible is even less reliable than the Qur’an, as the Bible has 479 contradictions in it, while the Qur’an has “only” 115 contradictions in it … ”
The ‘zombie’ stuff is clearly nonsense; as dda points out, zombies in fiction are drooling, shambling undead, whose raison d’etre is to eat live human beings brains. One is not required to believe in the divinity/resurrection of Christ in order to see that the resurrected Christ as described in the NT is nothing like that.
So ‘mr dude’s’ silly comparison is just downright daft, and, of course, meant to be insulting.
As for his strictures on the ‘reliability’ of the Bible, that’s even dafter. There is nothing in the New Testament that comes even remotely parallel to the vicious, murderous, commands in the koran.
He might want to ask himself, ( but of course he won’t), why it is that it is mohammedans following the koran who are busily murdering, bombing, torturing, flogging, decapitating, amputating, blinding each other, and non-mohammedans, all over the globe, **every day**, whilst the instances of Christians doing the same, whilst shrieking ”Christ is greater”, and invoking biblical texts whilst they saw the heads of ‘infidels’ is absolutely zero.
I’m not even a Christian, merely an intelligent agnostic, but I can see clearly the witless moral equivalence such as ‘mr dude’ are trying to present as an intelligent, reasoned argument. He doesn’t have the intellectual rigour of a Dawkins, Hitchens or Harris, which makes me think even more he is a leftard apologist for islam, or a mohammedan in a mask, or simply a fatuous twat who enjoys Christian bashing, but hasn’t the intelligence or education to do it convincingly. God, they are such bores.
To get back to the article, clearly we don’t have the full story yet, but, reading the news, it seems more and more likely this is indeed mohammedans murdering innocents, yet again.
Like Mr Jihadski, if I’m wrong, I’ll have the decency and moral probity to say so, unlike the mohammedan trolls on this thread.
Mo says
@ Mirren10 –
This person has proved over and over they have no idea what Christianity teaches. He/she is just an anti-Christian bigot trolling here.
And while it’s easy to say “Don’t feed the trolls!”, it’s hard to do when you see someone posting outright lies. If you heard someone insulting and demeaning the character of someone you love and respect and know to be a decent, law abiding citizen, it would be very difficult to be silent – especially if they are doing so in public, where others could be influenced to believe the lies!
“I’m not even a Christian, merely an intelligent agnostic, but I can see clearly the witless moral equivalence such as ‘mr dude’ are trying to present as an intelligent, reasoned argument. ”
I appreciate your comments! I have no problem with agnostics or even atheists, as long as they simply represent Christianity and Islam correctly when comparing them. That’s all I ever ask. You don’t have to believe, follow or even like a religion to simply be be accurate about that thing. I loathe the death cult of Islam. But I try to be accurate when speaking about it.
It’s called being intellectually honest.
voegelinian says
Indeed, Mirren. And why are the other JW atheists so curiously silent now? Where is “inquisador” who made such a big fuss about this issue before, and our veteran “RodSerling” who cane to inquisador’s defense — that’s the same RodSerling who has taken the time and trouble to leap into comments to take Christians to task and pester them about their supposed proselytization; Mr. Dude is far, far worse than any Christian has been on JW, and far more deleterious to the mission of the Counter-Jihad.
dumbledoresarmy says
Mr Dude, you wrote –
“The Abrahamic faiths [sic: observe mindless repetition and furthering of Muslim meme here: please, please, please, DON’T LET THE ENEMY TEACH YOU WHAT TO SAY AND THINK!] (except Judaism) both have Jesus as a prophet, so both believe in, well, zombies.”
Reality check. Even if you are convinced – as you are – that both Islam and Christianity are fictions, they are NOT the same kind of fiction…and even so, *neither* has an account of “Isa’ or of Jesus that can be called a zombie story.
The figure Muslims call “Isa” is unrecognisable to Christians: it’s a really, really, really bad parody or caricature; foefic, as teenagers would say. The Muslim “Isa” was neither crucified nor raised from the dead, so calling it a “zombie” is totally out of whack.
According to Patrick Sookhdeo’s useful booklet, “Is the Muslim Isa the Biblical Jesus?” (and although you clearly are full of scorn for Christians and Christianity, you would do well to read it, and get a clue, because it’s a factual summary of the points of difference – MAJOR points of difference – between the Muslim “Isa” and the Christian “Jesus”) most Muslims interpret Quran 4: 157 to mean that “a substitute was made to look like Isa and was crucified in his place while Isa was taken straight up to heaven **without dying**). However a few Muslim commentators, among them Al-Baydawi (d. 1284) and Ibn Kathir (d. 1375) accept a real death of Isa (but no crucifixion) as one possible interpretation”.
That is: the Muslims either believe “Isa” never died at all but was taken up to heaven, or else that he died (a natural death, rather than being crucified) and is therefore on a par with others who were also called (and are still called) ‘prophets”, such as Muhammad himself. That is, they either view him as someone who actually never died or as someone who died and has, so far, stayed dead. Neither possibility fits the usual definition of a ‘zombie’ (an undead, a dead body “walking”).
And then, as for Christianity: have you ever actually *read* the four Gospels, and specifically, the accounts of the resurrected Jesus? You think they’re fictions – fine, you’re free to think that. But they’re NOT fictions about a zombie – an undead body sort of menacingly shambling around.
The resurrected Jesus is …extraordinarily ordinary. He discusses Torah – on the road to Emmaus. He walks into the room where his demoralised disciples are holed up with their grief, and says simple, ordinary things like “is there anything here to eat?” (and then, when fish and honey are brought, he eats it, in front of the disciples). On another occasion he says cheerfully “come and have breakfast” (as he sits on the shore of the sea of Galilee, toasting some fish on a fire).
Me, I’m quite familiar with horror stories, and stories about zombies, and the Gospel writers’ descriptions of the resurrected Jesus, whatever else they are, do *not* fit into the category “zombie story”. You can call them fiction, you can call them fantasy. But don’t call them zombie fiction; don’t call Jesus a zombie. Because he isn’t represented that way.
Newsflash: if you call Jesus a zombie, and tell Christians they believe in a zombie, it won’t convince them to stop being Christian. It’s not an *argument*. It’s a cheap insult and it also makes you look silly because it implies that you have a problem with basic reading comprehension.
Mr. Dude says
“The Muslim “Isa” was neither crucified nor raised from the dead, so calling it a “zombie” is totally out of whack. ”
….dumbledore, you are right about this, I was wrong in thinking that he is a zombie in BOTH Christianity and Islam….he’s only a zombie in CHRISTianity.
Mr. Dude says
dumbledore wrote: “And then, as for Christianity: have you ever actually *read* the four Gospels, and specifically, the accounts of the resurrected Jesus?”
The gospels are so CONTRADICTORY, that no person who values consistency (like Modern Secular Humanists like Dawkins do) would ever believe that they are more than a fairy tale. They can’t even decide after how many days he was resurrected (after death)!
People on this site don’t seem to understand that the Bible is even less reliable than the Qur’an, as the Bible has 479 contradictions in it, while the Qur’an has “only” 115 contradictions in it – still 115 too many to be from “god”. The Bible has 364 MORE contradictions that the bible. Contradictions are a sign there’s usually something wrong – that’s why a jury, for example, looks for contradictions in someone’s testimony to see if they are telling the truth or not. The writers of the Bible would be the worst witnesses in history.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_book.html
Mr. Dude says
dumbledore, I appreciate your passion on this issue.
But the fact remains, that nobody today believes that “zombies” are real….no one watches World War Z and shouts at the screen “thank god for Brad Pitt or we’d all be eaten by those zombies!”
A zombie is a fully dead person who came back to life – which is ridiculous – and a certain alleged “prophet” we know fits that description. Hence calling him a zombie is not that far off.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe they were just MISTAKEN that the person they thought was the resurrected Jesus was not really Jesus, or was a twin, or ___________, or ______________. Anything else makes more since than zombies being real.
Just my opinion, however.
Brian C. Hoff says
It was than mechic failure that cause the crash of the airplane. I consider all airplane unsafe. 15 out of the 19 heighjack on 9-11 are still life than they repot they passports stolen.
Mr. Dude says
PJ wrote “Bwahahahahaha! You must still be dropping that acid, “Brian”.
……
Still lusting after that secretary that rejected you at the mosque, “Brian”?
Speaking of “acid”, that often seems to be what Muslim women get (in the face) when they reject the amorous advances of a Muslim male these days (just read the news.)
Mr. Dude says
YES, it was likely followers of Mohammad who for the 22,000+ time since 9/11 alone followed Mohammad’s example (“I have been made victorious through terror”.)
I’d love to have the Vegas book-makers take bets on every tragedy with the bet “was this tragedy caused by Islamic terrorists?” If they consistently did that I’d make a fortune over time!….always betting on “yes, it was Islamic terrorists”. I’d enjoy taking money from the politically-correct liberal who would instead bet on “it was probably a vast right-wing conspiracy that brought down the plane”. Bwaaaahahaha.
Like Wesley Snipes said “Always bet on black!” In this case it would be always bet on the black flag of Islam/Al-Qaeda. It’s what they call in Vegas “a sure thing”.
PS Robert, thank you again for your bravery, and for this site – a bastion of freedom.
Mo says
@ Philip Jihadski –
No, I will not go away. I have a right to voice my opinion, just as you do.
As to HuffPo, what does that place have to do with speaking out against jihad? Nothing.
Keep on with your vulgar, juvenile, filthy talk. All it does is bring down the reputation of this site. which is supposed to be about a serious topic. Give the Leftists at HuffPo reason to disparage us and this important issue.
Well done.
Mo says
@ Mr. Dude
“You seem to think that religions are all great, however that’s not true.”
I’ve said nothing regarding that issue, one way or the other.
“In fact, the Abrahamic faiths are of course quite similar in many many ways (from the other thread):”
This comment (and your other ones) demonstrate you know nothing about Judaism, Christianity or Islam.
Other than sharing some names/words, Islam is nothing like Judaism and Christianity. Nothing whatsoever. That’s basic knowledge here at JW.
You’ve answered none of my questions.
You are a troll. Stop wasting my time and energy.
@ Philip Jihadski –
No, I will not go away. I have a right to voice my opinion, just as you do.
As to HuffPo, what does that place have to do with speaking out against jihad? Nothing.
Keep on with your vulgar, juvenile, filthy talk. All it does is bring down the reputation of this site. which is supposed to be about a serious topic. Give the Leftists at HuffPo reason to disparage us and this important issue.
Well done.
Larry says
People, people, people, you’re missing the blatantly obvious here.
It was George W Bush and Mossad that did it in a false flag operation, that’s why there were no Jews on the flight. Obviously those passengers who failed to board and had their luggage removed from the flight were Jews who were tipped off that Mossad was going to blow up the plane after George W Bush installed explosives in prayer rugs on board.
/sarc off
Mr. Dude says
Excellent post.
Mo says
@ Wong
“Just recently Christians slaughtered hundreds of Muslime in Sudan, and Buddhists killed hundreds of Muslimers in Burma… Prolly deserved it, but I’m just sayin’ it happens…”
And where’s the evidence that this happened at all or that if it did happen, that they were doing so in direct obedience to their religious texts?
I’ll ask this two-part question like I’ve asked it countless times through the years. (And to which question I have never once received an answer.)
Show me in the Bible are the open-ended commands for believers (Jews or Christians) to commit any sort of violence against non-believers?
And then show me where Jews or Christians are committing such acts, all over the world, on a regular basis, in obedience to those open-ended commands.
tpellow says
“Missing Malaysia Airlines flight: The early clues could point to Islam militants”
By Colonel Richard Kemp.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-early-3222594#ixzz2vXwJI7ee
Mr. Dude says
Yes, it was probably the extremism that religions instill in their followers that is responsible for this tragedy.
“Talking donkeys are real, a talking snake is real, magic is real, unicorns are real, walking on water is real”……this avoidance of reality can drive people to do crazy things (Jihads, Crusades, Inquisitions, Witch burning, abortion clinic attacks, etc., etc.)
The Modern Secular Humanism of Dawkins/Harris have no teachings that are similar to that, fortunately. I’m glad there’s now an alternative to the extremism.
Steffen Larsen says
We have seen a lot of strange comments on this site, and truth be told: not all of them by offended muslims.
But the Dawg’s angry “Please tell me when ‘devout Muslims’ hijacked a plane” is one of the better ones. That one won’t be forgot any time soon.
Eels says
“I think that followers are well intended, but they need to embrace a reality-based belief system such as Modern Secular Humanism.”
Mr. Dude, if we are to take you seriously in your self appointed role of Atheist Missionary then really, you are going to have to do better.
If you do something as silly as equating Jesus with a Zombie then it is hard for anyone who believes differently to take anything else you say seriously. And why should they? What ever you believe about Jesus, a Zombie he was not. You can argue for the historicity of Him, and plenty of non Christians do. You can also argue against the resurrection, clearly, again that would be interesting, But to say he is portrayed as some sort of living dead is so far from what Christians believe that do so serves to merely entrench the views of those that oppose you. If you tell a heroin addict who has just experienced the euphoria and almost ecstasy that heroin can give, that there is no good in heroin, you will never convince him there is harm in it. He will know from the moment you do that you just don’t know what you are talking about. If you truly want to change peoples minds than you probably should accept that there is at least some merit and some good and some rationality behind their current belief. Otherwise you will fail in your task of converting people to Modern (why Modern by the way? secular humanism has been around for ages) Secular Humanism.
I want to hear from you good evidence based arguments that we would all be better off as secular humanists. Further: good arguments as to why, say, the Sermon on the Mount should be considered a Faerie Tail or the book of proverbs should be thus so dismissed, before I can engage seriously with you. If you don’t, you come across as an arrogant neophyte that is so entranced with the fierce veracity of his new found world view that he believes all others must be foolish and wrong.
I am so close to falling away from my own faith as to not need much persuading, you however come across as so irritating and to be blunt, daft, that it makes me wonder whether my own beliefs are that crazy after all….
Mr. Dude says
The Golden Rule (Jesus didn’t invent it) is very good.
“Love thy neighbor” is very good.
“Help the poor” is very good.
“Give to charity” is very good.
But one does not need to believe that magic is real, and to shun science, to advocate those concepts. 500 dead people coming back to life (not just in the Bible, but kinda like in a recent Brad Pitt movie) is not needed to teach one to love one’s neighbor. Religions insult our intelligence, and because they don’t have facts on their side they resort to FEAR.
Bring forward the good stuff, but ditch the supernatural garbage, the violent texts, the verses that say to killing gays, the hatred of women.
While not ALL mentions of “fear” in the Bible are meant to scare us into worshipping the came-back-to-life-from-the-dead guy (….zombie! there I couldn’t resist!) but the word “fear” is mentioned 970 times in that one book alone: http://biblez.com/search.php?q=fear
Clearly they don’t have scientific FACTS on their side so they wallow in “FAITH” and “FEAR”.
Angemon says
“Mr. Dude, if we are to take you seriously in your self appointed role of Atheist Missionary then really, you are going to have to do better.”
A lot better. Notice that while he claims all religions are bad, he just focuses in attacking one religion. Clearly he has an agenda, but not as atheist.
Mr. Dude says
The Hindu belief system is just as bad as the Abrahamic faiths are.
thomas_h says
“I am so close to falling away from my own faith as to not need much persuading, you however come across as so irritating and to be blunt, daft, that it makes me wonder whether my own beliefs are that crazy after all…”
Witty! Enjoyed it very much!
But the guy is both intellectually challenged and comically arrogant. A hopeless combination. You shouldn’t remain in your faith because you had the misfortune of bumping into a ninny on the other side of the “fence”. There are quite a few bright, intellectually honest, atheists – you were just unlucky.
Some years ago (well many years ago) I was more or less in your situation, but fortunate to speak and listen to quite a few bright atheists, and read some of them. It was because of these purely intellectual chats that I discovered the deeper layer of the faith, its metaphysical foundation, which incidentally were also the foundation of intellect (and intellectual chats, of course). Because that, and quite unexpectedly, these interchanges led me back to my faith. It may happen to you too.
In any case, I hope that if you eventually decide to remain in your faith, it won’t be as a reaction to the absurdities-emitting Mr.Dope.
Regards,
Thomas H.
Eels says
Thank you.
Sincerely, you were helpful.
Tim
citycat says
Atheist Missionary, ha ha, almost on par with Dumbledoresarmy’s Evangelist Atheist.
Anyway, isn’t a lot of this out of context, timewise, agewise, evolutionwise, literarywise, wisdomwise.
I think comparing morality or ways of being these days to morality writ so long ago is not a proper argument.
These days people are coming from a different place compared to long ago.
Knowledge from long ago does not necessarily make sense any more due to the supposedly constant learning of humans.
Things evolve, things change, knowledge changes, the mores of the people change, generally speaking all changes, supposedly man evolves.
What does not change? Eternity?
We are in eternity already, it is constantly changing.
Holding fast to the past soon will break, not to discard all though.
Islam seems the most determined to hang onto the past.
I don’t think forming a new world order or wothaveyou is an answer.
We have enough cults already.
I think there is almost every religion in England, even the Native American religion, the great white spirit an all, i quite like that one.
The wind in my heart. The wind in my heart.
Drive them away ay, drive them away ay.
merci
Mr. Dude says
“I think comparing morality or ways of being these days to morality writ so long ago is not a proper argument.”
So, clearly, ancient superstitions like the Qur’an/Bible/Torah aren’t as moral, and therefore not as useful, as modern teachings are today, correct?
citycat says
No, i didn’t say “as”, i said “different”.
You are still trying to compare one with the other, it seems, to find a ground or a stance, to be complicated, to get a grip of it all maybe.
There is a mixture of stuff in the Bible, moralities, etc I don’t know the truth of the history writ therein. But there is one important point and that is the freedom of the individual to make of it what one will, or can, or nothing, as de case maybe.
Same with the Gita,
Upanisads,
Buddhist Scriptures,
I Ching,
The Satanic Bible,
The Way of The Wyrd,
Tales of Narnia,
Alice in Wonderland.
in fact any book, almost.
I have gleamed stuff from the Bible, as one example, that no one will believe, that is not written as simple info.
The person reading wotever scripture, is part of the equation, which is frowned upon by the traditionalists, this is particularly brutally enforced in Islam.
No independent interpretation of the Koran, nor discussion of the possibility of a different point of view, follow the party line or be killed.
Relatively speaking, other religions don’t do that anymore, which makes Islam extreme in its tyrannical control of the Muslim mind.
It seems, correct me if I’m wrong, that you (and others), to different degrees of course, everyone is different, as well as having fundamental samenesses, it seems that one does not want, or is not able, to float free without some sort of anchor to some sort of conceptualized framework, be it religion or wotever.
But then you see, there is not only logic to deal with, there is the noncapturable essence of a human, spirit, soul, assuming the soul eaters don’t get you after you have split your body.
I can site an instance of that that was experienced by a non superstitious streetwise gang leader, i think page 86 or 87 in a book called “condemned”, can’t recall the author, an English guy that became a Christian to counsel other fellbythewaysiders.
Superstition? Maybe, maybe not.
You see it or you don’t.
If you don’t “see” the supernatural it don’t mean it ain’t existing.
What is said to be supernatural may be regarded as natural.
And the madness continues,
As the great Brian Friel once said “never cease remembering that all is a form of madness”
There may not be such a cut and dried philosophy that one can therefore get one’s head around life.
oki poki
Eels says
All this talk of Modern Thought has gone to your head, (at least what passes for a head.) I submit that a whole lot of what you so gleefully think of as Modern and therefore superior isn’t either.
If you are interested, which you may be, and capable, which you may not be, I suggest The Discarded Image as a primer in medievel thought. We haven’t progressed half as much as you assume. Not even close.
And out of curiosity why do you assume I believe in magic?
Mr. Dude says
Mr. Dude, the world’s first Evangelical Atheist. 🙂
Eels says
The world’s first? I don’t think so, far far from it.
Do you know what Hubris is?
Either way you define it.
gravenimage says
“Mr. Dude” wrote:
Mr. Dude, the world’s first Evangelical Atheist.
………………………..
Another thing that “Mr. Dude” appears to have missed is that being an Atheist is hardly proof of either solid ethics or rational thought.
There are a great many morally decent and reasonable Atheists.
But there was also the philosophy of the Soviet Union, of Communist China, the Khmer Rouge, and Nazi Germany—and their horrific body counts, as well.
The fact is that someone’s embracing Atheism, in and of itself, tells you little about that person. They might be a Richard Dawkins or a Joseph Stalin, a Christopher Hitchens or a Pol Pot.
andrew sapia says
I hope if they link the attack to the Uighurs that China will do what we should but never will, which is to go and kick some Uighur ass. This is the only thing they understand BRUTAL OPPRESSION! Can anyone tell me how many terror attacks took place in Saddam’s Iraq, exactly! Because he would kill everyone in your family and your neighbors and anyone you dated in high school and all of the friends of your friends. Sorry but that is what the savages understand. I hope china gets very brutal with these people. Not even Putin has the gonads to go and level Dagastan. You need to get medieval.
awake says
In all seriousness, why engage the troll known as “watchdawg” at all? He is just here to grief.
ANYONE with a modicum of intelligence and a rudimentary understanding of Islam would suspect Muslims first in these types of situational “tragedies”, for lack of a better term at this point.
Of course this may not be the work of jihadists, but conventional wisdom should require the burden of proof to disprove that they were Muslims and not the other way around.
Deniz says
Maybe passports should be checked on arrival at an airport and not on departure to check if the photos match with the database. Just a thought.
Mr. Dude says
That’s just a band-aid….a better long-term underlying solution is to get people to stop believing that ancient superstitions are actually real. That will reduce the extremism, and the avoidance of reality, that religious people offer suffer from. Such as the belief that a talking snake is real, or that a talking donkey is real, etc. People in mental hospitals also believe such crazy things. When ONE person believes crazy things he’s called “crazy”, but when millions of people believe that same thing they are called “devout”….makes no sense at all.
awake says
So, we cannot get a foundational understanding of Islam wanting to conquer the world, with a noticeable strategy in place and enacted currently by many, many Muslims, which based on current events, makes that ideology exclusively problematic, yet you chose to offer a solution requiring global disbelief?
That’s a pretty lofty goal there fella. It sounds akin to the guy in the office who is cold, and instead of putting on a sweater, suggests trying to pull the Sun closer to the Earth.
Mr. Dude says
Kill 2 birds with one stone.
Champ says
LOL!! Brilliant, Awake!!
Mazo says
I dare anyone who actually believes this BS to explain why a UYGHUR SEPERATIST group which wants to SEPERATE from China would call itself the “CHINESE Martyr’s Brigade”?
Malaysian and Chinese authorities both call the claim a hoax. The two men who boarded with stolen passports were NOT Uyghur or even asians. All reliable authorities dismissed the claim, the “Chinese Martyrs Brigade” does not even exist.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2014/0310/Malaysia-Airlines-flight-MH370-China-plays-down-terrorism-theories
http://english.astroawani.com/news/show/no-sound-ground-to-chinese-martyr-terrorist-claim-hishammuddin-31604
The two men were blacks like the football balotelli, as confirmed by Director-General Azharuddin Abdul Rahman.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/flight-mh370-mystery-passenger-of-malaysian-plane-looked-like-mario-balotelli-9182036.html
http://abcnews.go.com/International/malaysia-airlines-passenger-stolen-passport-caught-video/t/story?id=22842452
Mr. Dude says
PJ wrote: “It is you that keeps “demanding” that Christians, somehow, should automatically bend to your will.It is you that keeps “demanding” that Christians, somehow, should automatically bend to your will.”
I believe that people of the Abrahamic faiths do have a right to believe in fairy tales if they so choose. That’s their right in a democracy (Jesus advocated accepting your earthly masters – Jesus never advocated democracy, he wasn’t too bright.) I’m not going to force them to leave their delusion. Hopefully, like I did, they’ll leave their superstitious Abrahamic faith through logic, reason, common sense, evidence, and critical thinking.
Mo says
@ Mr Dude
“I believe that people of the Abrahamic faiths…”
I don’t care what you believe. Stop calling Islam, Judaism & Christianity “Abrahamic” faiths. Other than copying some names and events (and completely altering them!) Islam has nothing in common with the other two.
Stop repeating your lies.
” do have a right to believe in fairy tales if they so choose.”
Christianity teaches no fairy tales. Stop posting your lies.
” That’s their right in a democracy (Jesus advocated accepting your earthly masters – Jesus never advocated democracy, he wasn’t too bright.)”
Post your facts about Jesus not being to bright.
Stop posting your lies.
Stop lumping in Islam with Judaism & Christianity. Stop trying to make some moral equivalence between them. There isn’t any.
Stop posting your lies.
Mr. Dude says
“Christianity teaches no fairy tales. ”
Yes it does. You can’t prove that donkeys can talk, can you?
You can’t prove that snakes can talk, can you?
You can’t prove that people have walked on water, can you?
You can’t prove that the “flood” was actually real, can you?
You can’t prove that all the animals on the earth can fit one boat, can you?
You can’t prove that Moses parted the seas, can you?
You can’t prove that the earth is flat like the Bible implies, can you?
You can’t prove that the sun revolves around the earth like the Bible teaches, can you?
You can’t prove that Jesus was magically “resurrected”, can you?
You can’t prove that Jesus actually answers prayers, can you (meta studies show that Jesus is inneffective as answering prayers.)
If some wild claim can’t be reasonably proved, then don’t believe that its any different than a fairy tale.
Angemon says
On the other hand, can you prove that God doesn’t exist and that he can’t perform miracles? Since faith is, by definition, belief without empirical evidence, burden of proof is upon you. You can’t simply say “you can’t prove it so stop believing it” when the absence of proof is part of basis for said belief. If you want to prove a belief wrong you need to bring forth empirical evidence that the belief is wrong.
Mo says
@ Angemon –
Actually, biblical faith is not defined as believing things without evidence. There are plenty of lines of evidence for the Bible’s claims.
The thing is, anti-theist bigots like Mr. Dude want to derail the conversation and continue to avoid providing the evidence I asked for regarding HIS claim that Islam & Christianity are the same.
All he will do is demand this or that evidence from Christians. When it’s provided, he will dismiss/ignore it and ask for another. On and on he will go until the Christians give up. Why? Because he has ZERO interest in evidence. He’s just trying to continue to derail the discussion and avoid providing the evidence he’s been asked for.
Don’t fall for his game. It’s a standard one from anti-theist bigots! If I had a dollar for every time I’ve seen this happen, I’d be rich!
Mr. Dude says
” Stop trying to make some moral equivalence between them. There isn’t any. ”
They both are so immoral that they approve of SLAVERY and RAPE! Nuff said!
the Christian equivalent of the Qur’an says:
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
Christianity teaches to force a rape victim to marry her rapist! Jesus COULD have directly spoke out against this, so that they of course would remove it from the Bible, but he’s not moral enough to do that….and he’s allegedly watching me type this…..yea, yea he knows.
Mohammad (and Jesus/Moses) are not good role models, unless of course you believe that we should change our laws to force a rape victim to marry her rapist. As a Modern Secular Humanist I can be consistent in my beliefs, but followers of Islam (and the other AF) obviously can’t. That’s a glaring weakness of the Abrahamic faiths.
Champ says
Mr. Delusional is lying about Christianity and spreading them here …
But Robert Spencer has written a book exposing these types of misconceptions.
As you know Robert Spencer is a Christian, and he addresses this issue in one of his books:
“Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn’t”
People like Mr. Delusional come from the moral equivalency crowd, and Robert tackles this mindset in this book …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christianity or Islam: which is the real “religion of peace”?
Almost any liberal pundit will tell you that there’s a religion bent on destroying our Constitution, stripping us of our liberties, and imposing religious rule on the U.S. And that religion is . . .Christianity! About Islam, however, the Left is silent–except to claim a moral equivalence between the two: if Islam has terrorists today, that’s nothing compared to the Crusades, inquisitions, and religious wars in Christianity’s past.
But is this true? Are conservative Christians really more of a threat to free societies than Islamic jihadists? Is the Bible really “just as violent” as the Qur’an? Is Christianity’s history really as bloodstained as Islam’s? In Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn’t, New York Times bestselling author Robert Spencer not only refutes such charges, but also explains why Americans and Europeans must regain an appreciation of our Christian heritage if we ever hope to defeat Islamic supremacism. In this eye opening work, Spencer reveals:
* The fundamental differences between Islamic and Christian teachings about warfare against other religions: “Love your enemies” vs. “Be ruthless to the unbelievers”
* The myth of Western immorality and Islamic puritanism and why the Islamic world is less moral than the West
* Why the Islamic world has never developed the distinction between religious and secular law that is inherent in Christianity
* Why Christianity has always embraced reason–and Islam has always rejected it
* Why the most determined enemies of Western civilization may not be the jihadists at all, but the leftists who fear their churchgoing neighbors more than Islamic terrorists
* Why Jews, Christians, and peoples of other faiths (or no faith) are equally at risk from militant Islam
Spencer writes not to proselytize, but to state a fact: Christianity is a true “religion of peace,” and on it Western civilization stands. If we are not to perish under Islam’s religion of the sword–with its more than 100 million active jihadists seeking to impose sharia law–we had better defend our own civilization.
http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Peace-Christianity-Islam-Isnt/dp/1596985151
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Methinks Mr. Delusional needs to purchase this book and stat! …especially if he plans on contributing further to Jihad Watch; if not, then he will remain a fool and in darkness regarding the truth about Christianity.
Mr. Dude says
“a positive, faith based belief does not require proof. ”
Just think how many innocent, well-intentioned non-believers the “all-loving” Jesus could save from eternal torture if he was just moral enough and real enough to prove he exists to a jury-level of proof. He won’t do that, however, because like Allah, he simply doesn’t exist. Or he’s not moral enough to do that….in which case he’s of course not worth worshipping.
Even if only a handful of people would believe he was real by providing more evidence of his divinity, such as physical evidence, of which he provided none, wouldn’t it be worth it for him to do so? Or is he too busy answering prayer of Christians to do well in the all-important little-league game coming up, or helping their garden grow, or other clearly lower priority items? Jesus apparently doesn’t understand “priorities”.
Mo says
@ Mr. Dude
Stop slandering Christ. Provide the evidence I’ve asked for repeatedly.
I’ll just copy/past my previous response, since it won’t go through any other way. It’s amazing how your lies get posted, but my comments won’t.
@ Mr. Dude –
No one here is promoting the idea of “invisible friends”, other than you.
Now, where’s the evidence I’ve asked for numerous times?
You know, the evidence from the Bible of open ended commands for Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers? And the evidence of Jews or Christians committing such acts on a regular basis, all over the world, in obedience to those open ended commands in the Bible?
Mo says
@ Mirren10 –
This person has proved over and over they have no idea what Christianity teaches. He/she is just an anti-Christian bigot trolling here.
And while it’s easy to say “Don’t feed the trolls!”, it’s hard to do when you see someone posting outright lies. If you heard someone insulting and demeaning the character of someone you love and respect and know to be a decent, law abiding citizen, it would be very difficult to be silent – especially if they are doing so in public, where others could be influenced to believe the lies!
“I’m not even a Christian, merely an intelligent agnostic, but I can see clearly the witless moral equivalence such as ‘mr dude’ are trying to present as an intelligent, reasoned argument. ”
I appreciate your comments! I have no problem with agnostics or even atheists, as long as they simply represent Christianity and Islam correctly when comparing them. That’s all I ever ask. You don’t have to believe, follow or even like a religion to simply be be accurate about that thing. I loathe the death cult of Islam. But I try to be accurate when speaking about it.
It’s called being intellectually honest.
voegelinian says
Mr. Dude has been spewing such a mountain of shit, filled with provocative red herrings, intermixed with occasional anti-Islam bromides, that most readers don’t seem to realize what he is.
Just to pick one exchange out of dozens one could adduce over the past few days (copy-pasted from just above me here):
Mo [quoting Dude, then commenting to him]
March 10, 2014 at 9:58 pm
@ Mr. Dude
“Christians/Jews have killed more people than the Muslims have in the the last 10 years…”
Liar.
So where are those open ended commands from the Bible commanding Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers? Or all the examples of them obeying these commands.
What a liar you are. Thanks for wasting two days of my life.
Reply
Mr. Dude then replied:
March 10, 2014 at 10:28 pm
Iraq…..Afghanistan…..PT…..nations defending Israel’s illegal occupation…
*******
Israel’s “illegal occupation”???
“Christians/Jews have killed more people than the Muslims have in the the last 10 years…” ???
Where is gravenimage and dumbledoresarmy to kick this guy’s ass? Are you guys asleep or something?
Mr. Dude says
“Are YOU worth 1/2 a man, or do you condemn Jesus for not speaking out against what he obviously would have known would be in the book about him?”
Yet another question Angemon apparently can’t answer. Sad, really.
Mo says
Site won’t let me comment no matter what I do.
***
Stop equating Islam & Christianity. There is no comparison to be made.
Mr. Dude says
Here about about 30 similarities (a post on this thread): http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/was-malaysia-airlines-crash-the-work-of-islamic-jihadists/comment-page-1#comment-1020018
So clearly they share MUCH in common. And this is actually an indictment of Islam (equating it with Christianity), so it should be appreciated on a forum that rightly (thank you again, Robert) points out the faults of Islam. Again, Islam is evil, we can all agree on that. But I’d he dishonest if I didn’t also say that the other Abrahamic faiths are quite similar. No JIHAD, as such, but still need work to be brought into the 21 century to join Modern Secular Humanism. Reforming the Qur’an (and yes, the Bible) would be what’s best for humanity.
Mo says
@ Mr. Dude
Oh, look. My posts are finally getting through.
****
Stop giving me old threads. I scrolled through a bit and saw nothing of the evidence I asked for.
Provide for me the open ended passages from the Bible commanding Jews and/or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers.
And then provide for me the evidence of where Jews or Christians are committing such acts, all over the world, on a regular basis, in obedience to these commands.
Stop equating Islam with Christianity and provide the evidence I requested.
Albert8184 says
Okay. Keep repeating that mantra. We’ll keep ignoring you. If I had a dollar for every silly Leftist interpretation and analysis of Christianity that I’ve ever heard, I’d be a billionaire. You guys have one for every day of the year. So, take your silly list and keep walking.
Angemon says
Notice how he conveniently leaves out the fact that he was explained why most of his “similarities” are wrong. He rebutted a couple of the rebuttals and his rebuttals were rebutted. In the end, the similarities left are pretty much just “both have a god, paradise, hell and an antagonist”, which i believe are points common to most, if not all, religions that ever existed.
Champ says
As you know Robert Spencer is a Christian, and he addresses this issue in one of his books: Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn’t
People like Mr. Delusional come from the moral equivalency crowd, and Robert tackles this mindset in this book …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christianity or Islam: which is the real “religion of peace”?
Almost any liberal pundit will tell you that there’s a religion bent on destroying our Constitution, stripping us of our liberties, and imposing religious rule on the U.S. And that religion is . . .Christianity! About Islam, however, the Left is silent–except to claim a moral equivalence between the two: if Islam has terrorists today, that’s nothing compared to the Crusades, inquisitions, and religious wars in Christianity’s past.
But is this true? Are conservative Christians really more of a threat to free societies than Islamic jihadists? Is the Bible really “just as violent” as the Qur’an? Is Christianity’s history really as bloodstained as Islam’s? In Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn’t, New York Times bestselling author Robert Spencer not only refutes such charges, but also explains why Americans and Europeans must regain an appreciation of our Christian heritage if we ever hope to defeat Islamic supremacism. In this eye opening work, Spencer reveals:
* The fundamental differences between Islamic and Christian teachings about warfare against other religions: “Love your enemies” vs. “Be ruthless to the unbelievers”
* The myth of Western immorality and Islamic puritanism and why the Islamic world is less moral than the West
* Why the Islamic world has never developed the distinction between religious and secular law that is inherent in Christianity
* Why Christianity has always embraced reason–and Islam has always rejected it
* Why the most determined enemies of Western civilization may not be the jihadists at all, but the leftists who fear their churchgoing neighbors more than Islamic terrorists
* Why Jews, Christians, and peoples of other faiths (or no faith) are equally at risk from militant Islam
Spencer writes not to proselytize, but to state a fact: Christianity is a true “religion of peace,” and on it Western civilization stands. If we are not to perish under Islam’s religion of the sword–with its more than 100 million active jihadists seeking to impose sharia law–we had better defend our own civilization.
http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Peace-Christianity-Islam-Isnt/dp/1596985151
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Methinks Mr. Delusional needs to purchase this book and stat! …especially if he plans on contributing further to Jihad Watch; if not, then he will remain a fool and in darkness regarding the truth about Christianity.
Mo says
@ Angemon –
Mr. Dude’s games are the standard for anti-theist bigots who insist Christianity and Islam are equal.
That is why I have the very specifically worded question that I asked him. I will keep asking him to provide the evidence I asked for, until he either does so or apologizes for his lies and attempts at equating these two religions.
voegelinian says
Mr. Dude is indulging in the classic troll-sabotage tactic of spewing a dizzyingly dazzling pyrotechnic display of 1,001 points and sub-points and gripes and sub-gripes; and when valiant opponents like you and others step in to carefully challenge him with specifics, he ignores the key challenges while then going on to spew more distracting points and sub-points — also mixing in, along with that, specious claims that his opponents have been ignoring his challenges.
All this behavior of Mr. Dude could also be explained simply by a disordered mind that tends to think in wildly incoherent and emotional fashion. Depending on how generous one is feeling, one may choose the one explanation or the other.
There is no third explanation, however, to redeem him.
Albert8184 says
Mr. Dude is a Left Winger. Thus, his “interpretation” of “fact” is always going to be self-serving, untruthful and designed to promote his worldview by diminishing others who don’t agree with him.
You’ll notice, when talking to Leftists, that they always win their own arguments. And opponents ALWAYS lose.
Muslim Busters says
Only allah’s kids would do something this disgusting.
Mo says
@ Muslim Busters –
Actually, liberals and other various anti-theists do it all the time.
That’s why I’ve got the questions I asked Mr. Dude (and that he so conveniently ignored) memorized to the point where my fingers can just type it automatically. I have literally lost track of the times I have asked it. (And the times it’s been ignored!)
Angemon says
Actually, i answered that. Not here, but on the topic where you actually inquired me. That you need to go onto a different topic and claim i didn’t answer something i did answer is very revealing about your character and your lack of honesty.
Mr. Dude says
The Artful Dodger strikes again!
You could have ANSWERED the question with fewer words than it took to DODGE the question. Sorry, but that’s how it appears, me thinks.
I love you, but (no offense) getting a straight answer out of you is like getting a Muslim to condemn pedophilia (they simply can’t do it, when Aisha has been brought up at least, because they believe that Allah actually endorses pedophilia – or else why in the hell would he have picked one for his supposed final message.)
Angemon says
Thing is, i DID answer your question in the past, and you know so (your comment about the number of words makes it clear) so i’m wondering why you’re claiming i didn’t. It’s like you’re holding a grudge against me and resorting to petty personal attacks.
Angemon says
Seriously, why did you felt the need of coming into another topic and claiming i didn’t answer something i did answer?
Champ says
As you know Robert Spencer is a Christian, and he addresses this issue in one of his books: Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn’t
People like Mr. Delusional come from the moral equivalency crowd, and Robert tackles this mindset in this book …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christianity or Islam: which is the real “religion of peace”?
Almost any liberal pundit will tell you that there’s a religion bent on destroying our Constitution, stripping us of our liberties, and imposing religious rule on the U.S. And that religion is . . .Christianity! About Islam, however, the Left is silent–except to claim a moral equivalence between the two: if Islam has terrorists today, that’s nothing compared to the Crusades, inquisitions, and religious wars in Christianity’s past.
But is this true? Are conservative Christians really more of a threat to free societies than Islamic jihadists? Is the Bible really “just as violent” as the Qur’an? Is Christianity’s history really as bloodstained as Islam’s? In Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn’t, New York Times bestselling author Robert Spencer not only refutes such charges, but also explains why Americans and Europeans must regain an appreciation of our Christian heritage if we ever hope to defeat Islamic supremacism. In this eye opening work, Spencer reveals:
* The fundamental differences between Islamic and Christian teachings about warfare against other religions: “Love your enemies” vs. “Be ruthless to the unbelievers”
* The myth of Western immorality and Islamic puritanism and why the Islamic world is less moral than the West
* Why the Islamic world has never developed the distinction between religious and secular law that is inherent in Christianity
* Why Christianity has always embraced reason–and Islam has always rejected it
* Why the most determined enemies of Western civilization may not be the jihadists at all, but the leftists who fear their churchgoing neighbors more than Islamic terrorists
* Why Jews, Christians, and peoples of other faiths (or no faith) are equally at risk from militant Islam
Spencer writes not to proselytize, but to state a fact: Christianity is a true “religion of peace,” and on it Western civilization stands. If we are not to perish under Islam’s religion of the sword–with its more than 100 million active jihadists seeking to impose sharia law–we had better defend our own civilization.
http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Peace-Christianity-Islam-Isnt/dp/1596985151
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Methinks Mr. Delusional needs to purchase this book and stat! …especially if he plans on contributing further to Jihad Watch; if not, then he will remain a fool and in darkness regarding the truth about Christianity.
Defcon 4 says
What does your comment have to do w/the story at hand? Oh, that’s right, nothing, nothing at all.
Mr. Dude says
“Whoah, now, there Mr. Logic.”
That would certainly be better than someone I know, who shall be nameless, who we could arguably call “Mr. Superstition”. 🙂
I champion logic, reason and critical thinking, but followers of Islam (and of course the other Abrahic faiths) champion superstition, fear (of death and “hell”), and belief w/out evidence.
Champ says
“Mr. Detractor” is only here to create a distraction from the real enemy: islam
This fool has nothing substantive to state against islam, but instead he’s trying to convince us that there is no God and that having a belief in God is the REAL problem. What nonsense.
So he’s twice the fool and not worth our time and attention.
Angemon says
I disagree with the “having a belief in God is the REAL problem” bit. Like i pointed out before, mr. Dude is only interested in attacking christianity. He only started taking random jabs at islam after i questioned him on it. You know, to save face. It seems his problem is not with believing in any kind of god but only with believing in YHWH.
Mr. Dude says
Again, I believe that Islam is as bad as Christianity, and not better than Christianity. They BOTH would see that Mother Teresa would burn, burn, burn for daring to have left her faith in the last 30 days of her life (there is some thinking that she may have done just that, but none the less.)
“But now, it has emerged that Mother Teresa was so doubtful of her own faith that she feared being a hypocrite, reports CBS News correspondent Mark Phillips.
In a new book that compiles letters she wrote to friends, superiors and confessors, her doubts are obvious.
Shortly after beginning work in Calcutta’s slums, the spirit left Mother Teresa.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/letters-reveal-mother-teresas-secret/
Followers of Abrahamic faiths, unless they will say their prophet was dead wrong, believe that it’s likely that Mother Teresa is currently burning in hell, despite devoting her life to the poor.
Angemon says
“Again, I believe that Islam is as bad as Christianity, and not better than Christianity. They BOTH would see that Mother Teresa would burn, burn, burn for daring to have left her faith in the last 30 days of her life (there is some thinking that she may have done just that, but none the less.)”
Actually, islam is the religion who demands the killing of apostates. And if you’re a secular humanist like you claim, you shouldn’t be bringing up mother Teresa, since she opposed to contraception and abortion. Also, Christopher Hitchens described Mother Teresa’s organization as a cult which promoted suffering and did not help those in need. According to him, Teresa’s own words on poverty proved that her intention was not to help people. I’d say renouncing catholicism would be the least of her problems.
Mo says
@ Mr. Dude
I will keep trying to post until SOMETHING gets through. I won’t sit here and let these lies keep being repeated without speaking up about it. I can’t and I won’t.
***
“Again, I believe that Islam is as bad as Christianity, and not better than Christianity. ”
You are a LIAR.
I will keep asking and posting this question until you stop ignoring it and answer it truthfully.
Show me the open ended passages in the Bible that command Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers.
Then show me where Jews or Christians are committing such acts, all over the world, on a regular basis, in obedience to those commands.
You are a liar. Stop trolling, stop slandering Christianity, and answer my question.
voegelinian says
Mr. Dude is not being entirely forthcoming here (or his brain is addled and he can’t remember what he wrote a few hours ago). On another thread he wrote:
“I do not believe that Islam is better than Christianity, overall. Christianity is worse than Islam in many areas, and yes, Islam is indeed worse than Christianity in many areas. They are about equal, overall….or maybe Islam is a bit worse, but not much worse…”
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/qatar-bahrain-uae-ban-noah-film-al-azhar-says-it-violates-islam/comment-page-1#comment-1019573
And I responded:
I’ve never seen a finer crystallization of the disease of Equivalencism. Let us hope that inquisador and RodSerling and some other lurking atheists don’t agree and would express their disagreement by recoiling a thousand degrees away from it.
Mo says
@ Mr. Dude –
“Again, I believe that Islam is as bad as Christianity, and not better than Christianity. ”
Nonsense.
Where’s the evidence I’ve asked for numerous times?
You know, the evidence from the Bible of open ended commands for Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers? And the evidence of Jews or Christians committing such acts on a regular basis, all over the world, in obedience to those open ended commands in the Bible?
Defcon 4 says
“Again, I believe that Islam is as bad as Christianity, and not better than Christianity. ”
Then move to an islamic state, dirtbag, where there’s a lot less Christianity and less and less as time goes on.
Champ says
As you know Robert Spencer is a Christian, and he addresses this issue in one of his books: Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn’t
People like Mr. Delusional come from the moral equivalency crowd, and Robert tackles this mindset in this book …
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Christianity or Islam: which is the real “religion of peace”?
Almost any liberal pundit will tell you that there’s a religion bent on destroying our Constitution, stripping us of our liberties, and imposing religious rule on the U.S. And that religion is . . .Christianity! About Islam, however, the Left is silent–except to claim a moral equivalence between the two: if Islam has terrorists today, that’s nothing compared to the Crusades, inquisitions, and religious wars in Christianity’s past.
But is this true? Are conservative Christians really more of a threat to free societies than Islamic jihadists? Is the Bible really “just as violent” as the Qur’an? Is Christianity’s history really as bloodstained as Islam’s? In Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is and Islam Isn’t, New York Times bestselling author Robert Spencer not only refutes such charges, but also explains why Americans and Europeans must regain an appreciation of our Christian heritage if we ever hope to defeat Islamic supremacism. In this eye opening work, Spencer reveals:
* The fundamental differences between Islamic and Christian teachings about warfare against other religions: “Love your enemies” vs. “Be ruthless to the unbelievers”
* The myth of Western immorality and Islamic puritanism and why the Islamic world is less moral than the West
* Why the Islamic world has never developed the distinction between religious and secular law that is inherent in Christianity
* Why Christianity has always embraced reason–and Islam has always rejected it
* Why the most determined enemies of Western civilization may not be the jihadists at all, but the leftists who fear their churchgoing neighbors more than Islamic terrorists
* Why Jews, Christians, and peoples of other faiths (or no faith) are equally at risk from militant Islam
Spencer writes not to proselytize, but to state a fact: Christianity is a true “religion of peace,” and on it Western civilization stands. If we are not to perish under Islam’s religion of the sword–with its more than 100 million active jihadists seeking to impose sharia law–we had better defend our own civilization.
http://www.amazon.com/Religion-Peace-Christianity-Islam-Isnt/dp/1596985151
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Methinks Mr. Delusional needs to purchase this book and stat! …especially if he plans on contributing further to Jihad Watch; if not, then he will remain a fool and in darkness regarding the truth about Christianity.
Champ says
…and my comment was in response to Angemon.
Angemon says
I’ve read it. Contrarily to what mr. Dude seems to believe, one doesn’t have to be a christian/muslim/buddhist/insert-religion-here to see a comparison between religions, especially when all around the world muslims assure everyone else that islam is the solution for all the problems in the world. For that alone, islam should warrant more scrutiny than any other religion in the planet.
Mr. Dude says
The real enemy is the belief that magic is real. This belief allows ridiculous beliefs such as “we Jews are god’s chosen people”, or that “God favors us Muslims”, etc.. Stop doing that, and the jihad ends in the near future, and the hatred towards other belief systems stops, and mistreatment of gays drops a whole lot, mistreatment of women stops a whole lot, the Middle East crisis would be solved in the near future. Face reality, and a great future awaits us all.
Mr. Dude says
“Jesus (the role model of christians) mandating the killing of homosexuals.”
I never said Jesus mandated the killing of homosexuals – if I did I would have been wrong.
So let me ask the followers of Mohammad and Jesus and Moses this: do you value your children enough to simply not bring forward, the next time you give your kids the texts of your belief system, the parts that say that women are inferior? Do you value your children enough to do that?
Angemon says
Why would christians teach their children to follow deprecated teachings?
Mr. Dude says
Good point. So they should remove the OT from the Bible, correct? I believe they should do that.
Angemon says
On what grounds? IMO, removing the OT from the bible would be akin to removing the declaration of independence or the civil war out of american history. It may be past history and it may have unpalatable parts in it but it helped to define who americans are now and how they’ve progressed since then. Like Santayana said, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it“.
But if you think you can convince all sects of christianity to remove the OT out of the bible, i say go for it.
Angemon says
Once again, notice the dishonesty. I said that mr. Dude was forced to admit that ” he is not aware of Jesus (the role model of christians) mandating the killing of homosexuals“. But he chooses to misquote me and answer like i’m saying that he said Jesus mandated the killing of homosexuals.
voegelinian says
Wow, 289 comments and not a single one from “voegelinian” — I must have missed the party!
Brian C. Hoff says
First our national air crash investateing agency have than well proven blia in air plane crash and acient that Islam is the cause. In quit afew cases the air crash investrate refuse to say he is sorry for makeing than mistake was fired or force to resign. In one case our air crash investater said the muslim polit commit suide by crash the passager plane. It turn out the rubber on the trail was lock in place due to mechanian failure of than part. 8 year or 10 years later the thust came out.The company that make the fauly part have to paid hunderd of million to the family that die in that crash.
voegelinian says
I don’t normally call for banning of commenters (partly because I have been banned myself, more than once), but I now long for the days when Hugh Fitzgerald was here hinting heavily that anyone indulging in a “hobbyhorse” should be banned — and Hugh then had the power to do it. Mr. Dude has not only been egregiously riding his hobbyhorse in several threads, weighing them down with his mountain of crap (not merely intellectually offensive crap, but positively deleterious to the counter-jihad), he has been beating it dead and resurrecting it into a zombie horse, over and over.
Basta!
Mr. Dude says
“On the other hand, can you prove that God doesn’t exist and that he can’t perform miracles? Since faith is, by definition, belief without empirical evidence, burden of proof is upon you. You can’t simply say “you can’t prove it so stop believing it” when the absence of proof is part of basis for said belief. If you want to prove a belief wrong you need to bring forth empirical evidence that the belief is wrong.”
I can’t prove that my little niece’s invisible friend (he dresses up kind of funny, and only she can see him) doesn’t exist, and I can’t prove that YOUR invisible friend (who has no more evidence than my niece’s friend) doesn’t exist. Jesus is no more provable than a small child’s imaginary friend. When you can prove that lephrechauns and also my niece’s invisible friend don’t exist then I’ll take a serious stab at your question. Invisible friends are so far below a scientifically-minded person’s intellect that they probably wouldn’t want to waste their time that nonsense.
“God” is no more than an imaginary friend to those who are afraid of death.
Angemon says
“I can’t prove that my little niece’s invisible friend (he dresses up kind of funny, and only she can see him) doesn’t exist”
That’s not what i asked you to prove, was it? Can you prove that God doesn’t exist and that he can’t perform miracles? Since faith is, by definition, belief without empirical evidence, burden of proof is upon you. You can’t simply say “you can’t prove it so stop believing it” when the absence of proof is part of basis for said belief. If you want to prove a belief wrong you need to bring forth empirical evidence that the belief is wrong.
Mr. Dude says
One point is that my niece’s invisible friend and Allah/Christian-god are just as real, just as visible, have just as much evidence, and just as ineffective when prayed to (according to scientific studies.)
It’s obvious to us on this great web site that Mohammad just INVENTED “Allah”, and the world is suffering for it. But God/Jesus has the same level of proof as “Allah”, so they should, at least intellectually, be put into the same category: imaginative stories (with some good moral teachings for sure) until proven to a jury-level of proof.
Angemon says
“One point is that my niece’s invisible friend and Allah/Christian-god are just as real”
Prove it. Oh, wait, you can’t. So you believe people who believe in something despite lacking empirical evidence are wrong, even though you don’t have empirical evidence to back your claim. That’s the bind you tied yourself into. It’s clear you’re more interested in trying to insult christians than in having a rational discussion. But keep it up. More page views = more funds for JW and Robert.
Champ says
“It’s clear you’re more interested in trying to insult christians than in having a rational discussion. ”
Bingo, Angemon! …and the burden of proof (that God does not exist) is on Mr. Delusional, so good on you for sticking to your guns.
Champ says
“…be put into the same category: imaginative stories (with some good moral teachings for sure) until proven to a jury-level of proof.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your idea, your project …so take action and start your own “jury-level of proof” asap!
Hey the burden of proof should be placed squarely on your shoulders. Don’t skirt responsibility by asking others to do the work that YOU’RE requiring. C’mon get to work, Mr. Lazy!
Wellington says
I am an agnostic, Mr. Dude, and here’s something I know quite well: Christians and religious Jews are not a threat to world stability, to the markets, to the West, to liberty, to equality under the law and to so much else that Islam is very much a threat to. Let’s see, just since 9/11 there have been over 22,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide. How many Christian and Jewish terrorist attacks worldwide have there been during this same time period?
Furthermore, your references to violence mentioned in the Old Testament is irrelevant for two reasons: 1) unlike the Koran, the Bible is often not a paradigm for action for all time—-this helps to explain why so much mentioned in, say, Leviticus is no longer put into force by a single Jew anywhere on the planet; 2) any violence condoned in the Old Testament (which admittedly does not make it unassailable) was to sequester a small parcel of land about the size of Maryland and not all the earth, so the scale here is monumentally different.
I mean get a grip on reality, man. Besides, your approach will divide a common front against what Islam wants for all of us. How smart is that? To make enemies out of allies is a pretty dumb thing to do. But, by all means, keep a look out for those Presbyterian suicide bombers and those Jewish rabbis ready to stone an adultress. There could be some in your neighborhood right now.
Champ says
Hi, Wellington …
Note Mr. Dude’s response to you below …further proof that this guy is not at all interested in honest debate; instead he’s being silly and nonsensical — again. His only aim here is to create a distraction from the real enemy: islam. And he would have us believe that Christianity is JUST as dangerous as islam; which as you know is absolute rubbish. I find this tactic typical of what mohammedans do, hmm …
Mr. Dude says
“More page views = more funds for JW and Robert.”
Excellent, I love this web site, and have read 90% of Robert’s posts here (at least the headline) for the last 5 years straight. He tells it like the politically-correct WON’T. I admire so many things about him. He’s helping bring down one of the Abrahamic faiths, possibly more so than any person in history (none have had the internet at their disposal – until the last 10 years of so of course.)
Muslims and others will counter the criticism of Islam with criticism of the other Abrahamic faiths, since that’s so easy to do, so I’m obviously in heaven (well, uh, since I believe, in science, uh, I’m not going to be allowed into heaven, but you get the idea!)
Angemon says
“Muslims and others will counter the criticism of Islam with criticism of the other Abrahamic faiths”
Whoa, that statement is wrong on several levels. Muslims don’t counter the criticism of islam with criticism of abrahamic faiths (you’ve been trying to hammer down that islam is an abrahamic faith but it isn’t), they simply kill the critic. Muhammad did that and muslims throughout history did so too.
OK, they can’t do it online and in the off-chance that they don’t descent into an array of insults against the critic they might go after the critic’s religion, but i wouldn’t call it criticism. The’ll say things like “christians started WW1 and WW2 for their god” (“their god”, a funny choice of words when islam claims to be an abrahamic religion), “christians bombed hiroshima for their god” or “christians killed muslims in the crusades so they should all die”. Or maybe they’ll simply copy/paste a list full of logical fallacies like “there’s violence and slavery in the bible so the bible endorses violence and slavery therefore islam is better even though muhammad attacked other tribes to capture sex slaves” (ok, i added that last bit, but it’s true, according to islamic sources)
Anyway, if you love RS and JW as much as you claim to love then you’d know this, since news of people sentenced to prison or death for criticism of islam, muhammad or his companions are not uncommon (you’d also know that RS is not working to bring down islam, unlike what you claim). Also, answering to the criticism of one religion by criticising another is not a valid response. It’s at best a tu quoque. I’d expect someone who claims to deal in logic and rationality not to deal in lies, half-truths and logical fallacies, but it seems that’s all you got.
Mr. Dude says
Wellington wrote: “Leviticus is no longer put into force by a single Jew anywhere on the planet; ”
So why don’t they just fess up and admit that god made a MISTAKE (killing gays, etc.). Ooops, that whole god is “all-knowing” thing pops up, I forgot. Scratch that 🙂
Angemon says
Do you even know why Leviticus is no longer put into force by a single Jew anywhere on the planet?
Wellington says
No, Angemon, I don’t think Mr. Dude has a clue why many of Leviticus’ directives are no longer put into force by Jews but he is simplistic and ignorant enough to conclude that since this is so then the Jewish deity must have made a mistake. With a dearth of subtelty like this, most any silly conclusion is possible. And Mr. Dude has provided them in plentiful amounts. He is not worth our time.
thomas_h says
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Why would you want to engage anyone on the intellectual level of Mr. Dope. Mr. Dope?
After his first couple of comments it should be obvious to anyone, whether theist or atheist, that a man is a most crude ignoramus .
My atheist friend, who also happens to have a degree in philosophy and theoretical physics to whom I forwarded the link to our site responded immediately with, and I quote: “Please, please Thomas, I am no more responsible for absurdities issued by a loud idiot who fancies himself an atheist than you for raving of an idiot theist!”
Please notice that he used the form “fancies himself atheist” rather than “is an atheist”. Well, the guy obviously doesn’t want to be in the same category with Mr. Dope
Well, I didn’t really imply responsibility. But let me call the guy and explain.
voegelinian says
“I do not believe that Islam is better than Christianity, overall. Christianity is worse than Islam in many areas, and yes, Islam is indeed worse than Christianity in many areas. They are about equal, overall….or maybe Islam is a bit worse, but not much worse…”
— Mr. Dude
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/qatar-bahrain-uae-ban-noah-film-al-azhar-says-it-violates-islam/comment-page-1#comment-1019573
The “Big Tent” concept is fine in principle; but there has to be limits. Don’t we have bouncers here in the Counter-Jihad to escort Mr. Dude by the elbows (with his puny chicken legs sticking out of his Leftard khaki shorts kicking Birkenstock sandals in the air ineffectually) out of our tent flaps and deposit his sorry bum on the pavement outside the premises?
Mr. Dude says
I love Robert and fully condemn Islam (just read some of my posts!), so I can hardly be called a “Leftard”. I, like Robert, abhor left-wing political-correctness. Nothing would make me happier than to see Muslims leave Islam, and end this war.
Mr. Dude says
“I find this tactic typical of what mohammedans do, hmm …”
Champ, I guarantee you I’m not a Muslim! I value science, reason, critical thinking, common sense, and evidence too much to be a member of any religion.
Mohammad was so warped, that he said for a certain percentage of the BOOTY PLUNDERED to be given to him, in Q8:41. No sane person can not see that Mohammad just invented his invisible friend to get paid and get laid…..he also said his invisible friend said that MOHAMMAD AND MOHAMMAD ALONE could be the only man in world history allowed to have sex with more than the prescribed 4 women.
“How conveeeeeeeeeeenient!”, the Church Lady would say.
Mohammad was just a horn-dog with an imaginary friend.
Angemon says
“I value science, reason, critical thinking, common sense, and evidence too much”
And yet, you keep repeating claims that were disproved to you, you’re not above petty attempts at personal attacks and you have yet to provide evidence to prove god doesn’t exist. What you say about you does not match how you act. Now go and carry on your christian-bashing my friend!
Wellington says
Hi, Champ. Yes, I too suspect that Mr. Dude is a Mohammedan—–this or another stupid radical Leftist (for all intents and purposes, there is really no third possibility). Interesting how Mo’s followers and contemporary Leftists have a fair amount in common, including a disdain for Western Civilization, an inability to formulate informed and interesting responses, and a decided tendency towards a subspecies of adolescent gloating. Pathetic both groups.
Mr. Dude says
I’m about to do something you’ve never heard (a real) Muslim do: state that Mohammad was a terrorist, pedophile, robber, rapist (of at least war captives), murderer of innocents, etc. Ever heard a real Muslim do that? OF COURSE I’M NOT A MUSLIM.
Leftist? I abhor political-correctness, and love how Robert doesn’t hold back in a politically-correct way. Right-wing AND I don’t have an invisible friend, is that so hard for you to fathom?
Wellington says
You’re right-wing and yet you insult Christians? Why? Surely even you can discern that the founder of Christianity and the founder of Islam were two very different men, with implications down to the present day (if you don’t know this, then you don’t know didly).
There’s little to nothing about the character of Jesus which should be troubling to those who cherish liberty. Jesus’ directive about rendering to Caesar what is his due and to God other things types him as someone far different from Mohammed, who wanted no separation of church (mosque) and state. Also, Jesus never ordered the execution of anyone. Mohammed did by the thousands.
Do you not grasp that there is nothing in the theological blueprint of Christianity which is inimical to democracy but there is so much in Islam’s theological blueprint which is? Can you be so dense as to see no difference here between Christianity and Islam? Can’t you understand that when Christians killed or maimed in the name of their faith, they were violating their creed, but when Muslims kill or maim in the name of their faith they are regularly fulfilling a major directive of their religion?
Bertrand Russell, a total skeptic, not possessed of any religious inclination at all, astutely observed almost a hundred years ago that Islam was the only major religion which was totalitarian in structure and ideology. Russell went on to compare Islam to fascism and Marxism, two other totalitarian ideologies, only secular ones. Do you dispute Russell’s assessment? If so, why? And if you don’t dispute it, then can’t you see the extreme foolishness of equivocating, as you have, between Islam and Christianity?
No deceptions. No prevarications. Answer my queries directly or I will then know you are not interested in truth but rather propaganda (and no shit along the lines of what is truth or crap like that). Be direct. Be concise. Be complete. Quite frankly, I think you’re a phony, but go ahead and prove me wrong by finally presenting a cogent, informed argument, which to date you have not.
Champ says
Hi, Wellington,
You wrote:
“You’re right-wing and yet you insult Christians? Why? Surely even you can discern that the founder of Christianity and the founder of Islam were two very different men” …
Great question, and it’s certainly fair …
But look at what Mr. Dude wrote about Jesus on another thread:
Mr. Dude
March 10, 2014 at 6:04 pm
Ok, Angemon, what DOES ““keep them for yourselves” mean? Do tell.
I say it means to basically force them to marry you so you can have sex with them (that’s rape…..or can we do that in America today, hmmmmm?) What do YOU say it means?
Too bad Jesus won’t clear this up for us all. He could if he was moral, just like Allah would clear up the misunderstandings in Islam if he was moral.
Here’s the thread:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2014/03/new-york-muslim-killed-his-wife-because-he-objected-to-her-behavior-in-their-muslim-community/comment-page-1#comment-1020442
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Essentially Mr. Dude is stating that Jesus is just as immoral as allah …which follows his bogus posit and reasoning here, and on other threads, that Christianity is JUST as evil as islam–which, of course, it is NOT.
Notice how Mr. Dude calls Jesus’ character into question? …’if Jesus were a moral man’, so he obviously can’t tell the difference between Jesus and mohammad. This nonsense demonstrates a complete lack of an interest in the truth, and in having an honest debate here. He’s just a lying clown.
Mr. Dude says
You really don’t get it, do you? If Jesus/god were so all-knowing, and all-caring, just two simple words would have been the best advice of all time: “implement democracies”. Bingo.
But Jesus/god/Allah/Mohammad were not really that knowledgable, so we have the approval of totalitarian schemes, now don’t we! Dawkins gets it. Harris gets it. Jesus not so much.
“Kingdom” (including Jesus’ Jew-free elitist country club in the sky) is mentioned 409 times in the bible. http://biblez.com/search.php?q=kingdom
“Democracy” is mentioned zero times: http://biblez.com/search.php?q=democracy
Jesus/god/Mohammad/Allah were ignorant about the best political system that will ever exist. So obviously they are not divine, and we’re paying the price (at least with Islam – the Jihadists quest for a supremacist caliphate, where Muslims are treated as superiors under the law.)
Mr. Dude says
Yes, Wellington, like I said before, Islam is a bit worse than the Bible. But the Bible is quite evil as well. And when people are willing to admit that belief that supernatural stuff is actual REAL is what allows religions like Islam to flourish, then we can get at the heart of the problem (just that – the belief that supernatural stuff is real)…..Mohammad splitting the moon, or riding on a winged horse, a talking snake, talking donkey, unicorns being real, walking on water, turning water into wine – come on, it’s all a con to control people. All lies, or they could prove their supernatural claims, but they refuse to do. Jesus/Allah could do it in a millionth of a second – if they cared about us, but they obviously don’t.
Leave Islam destroyed while the other Abrahamic faiths remain untouched?…..ain’t gonna happen, realistically.
Mo says
Continuing to try to post here.
***
@ Mr. Dude –
No one here is promoting the idea of “invisible friends”, other than you.
Now, where’s the evidence I’ve asked for numerous times?
You know, the evidence from the Bible of open ended commands for Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers? And the evidence of Jews or Christians committing such acts on a regular basis, all over the world, in obedience to those open ended commands in the Bible?
shannon says
Guys you should pay attention to the pilot. Seriously. Anyone think there’s something wrong with him?
Mr. Dude says
“Essentially Mr. Dude is stating that Jesus is just as immoral as allah” – Champ.
Champ, we all know that Allah is evil, he will see that, say, Einstein is tortured beyond comprehension for not sucking up to a pedophile who lived in the 7th century. Now how exactly (be specific) will Jesus see that Einstein is treated better (in the alleged “afterlife”) than the evil Allah will…surely the “greatest/most loving person to have ever lived” will treat the great Einstein far far better than Allah, correct?
Do tell us how Jesus will treat Einstein better than Allah will treat him.
Mr. Dude says
I think it’s very telling that no one has been able to jump in and answer this question. Any takers? If not I’ll have to say the current score is:
Dawkins 1
Jesus 0
Allah 0
Mo says
@ Mr. Dude
“Yes, Wellington, like I said before, Islam is a bit worse than the Bible. But the Bible is quite evil as well.”
Liar.
Show me the open ended commands in the Bible for Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers?
When you’ve provided that evidence from Scripture, then show me the evidence of Jews or Christians committing such acts on a regular basis, all over the world, in obedience to those open ended commands in the Bible?
I will keep asking this until I am no longer ignored by you and I receive a response. Or an apology for your lies about Christianity and your slander of Christ.
Mo says
I don’t know why I keep responding, when my posts will not go through except for once in a while! This is driving me crazy. But I will not be silent while people keep posting these lies!
@ Mark –
Anther anti-Christian bigot to deal with.
I love how anti-theists like yourself claim it’s the Christians hijacking this blog. It is Mr. Dude who has done so, by posting outright lies about Christianity and then refusing to provide the evidence for his claims!
But Christians are just supposed to sit there and take it, eh? Why?
Show me your evidence from this blog that Christians have said that:
1) Christians are “the only people in this word (I assume you mean world) against Islam with morals.”
Show me this evidence.
2) “you only have 2 choices when its comes to being a decent moral human being.”
Show me where anyone has said this.
3) Show me where anyone is shoving “you religion” (whatever that is) in our faces on Jihad watch.”
Show it to me.
voegelinian says
“…like I said before, Islam is a bit worse than the Bible. “
You are my enemy. I say this as an agnostic. GTFOH.
voegelinian says
I was, of course, quoting Mr. Dude.
Mr. Dude says
Shouldn’t the REAL enemy of humanity be the two main belief systems that say that if you don’t believe like they do (now that’s arrogance) that you DESERVE, yes DESERVE, from the wisdom of the ultimate authority no less, torture worse than Hitler could ever have possibly meted out? Now THAT HATRED FOR MOST OF HUMANITY (no religion has a majority of people as followers) is what you should be against, not my desire to see the world face reality and love one another in a secular manner, with no imaginary friends to muck stuff up.
I welcome your opinion, though.
Mr. Dude says
Mo, glad to see your posts are coming through now.
You wrote “Provide for me the open ended passages from the Bible commanding Jews and/or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers.
And then provide for me the evidence of where Jews or Christians are committing such acts, all over the world, on a regular basis, in obedience to these commands.”
Christians/Jews have killed more people than the Muslims have in the the last 10 years, but they have more sophisticated weaponry, so they don’t need to resort to typical “terrorism”. It’s state sponsored terrorism, such as defending an illegal state (that was STARTED by pure terrorism in the first place – Israel) that engages in religious Apartheid and continues to slowly steadily actually steal more and more land bit by bit. I like that Israel is a democracy, but of course they are not moral for having had laws that discriminate against non Jews at times. “We are god’s chosen people” is nothing but a recipe for disaster! Was it Hitler that said “we Aryans are god’s chosen people” or was it the Jews, that said they were god’s chosen people….kind of hard to tell, really.
The Christian majority nation of America is using high-tech terrorism (drones) to terrorize parts of the world, but are too cowardly to take on the underlying belief system of their enemy (Islam), because of course they realize that a close examination of an Abrahamic faith will land in their OWN Abrahamic lap as well, since all Abrahamic faiths teach ridiculous un-defendable things (I’m a former member of an Abrahamic faith, so I know.)
The other Abrhamic faith (Muslims) in the Middle East have been no better, though, of course. When you actually believe that a pedo is the best person of all time, it’s all downhill from there! Religion makes people believe utterly insane things!
They all need a good dose of atheism’s reverence for reality, to get them to stop thinking that their “race” (well, they do think in those terms) is superior because their particular unique invisible friend tells them so.
Mo says
@ Mr. Dude
“Christians/Jews have killed more people than the Muslims have in the the last 10 years…”
Liar.
So where are those open ended commands from the Bible commanding Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers? Or all the examples of them obeying these commands.
What a liar you are. Thanks for wasting two days of my life.
Mr. Dude says
Iraq…..Afghanistan…..PT…..nations defending Israel’s illegal occupation (indirectly, in Iraq and Afghanistan,as well as the PT) have better weapons so are much more effective than what the Islamic terrorists have done, but we do all realize that if Mohammad’s minions had better weaponry Jihadists would commit wholesale slaughter on even a larger scale than they already have. Fortunately, the Jihadists aren’t getting those weapons, thank Darwin.
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/
….that site shows over 121,000 deaths, most all of which were killed by either a “Crusader” (well they are defending Israel, the Christians are), or the Jihadists, in one country alone. More and more the Abrahamic faith of ISLAM is being responsible for the deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan than the other AF is.
“So where are those open ended commands from the Bible commanding Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers? ” – Mo
It’s more the belief that the Messiah will return, so they need to support the strategically-located nation of Israel (fundamentalist Christians and Jews believe this), than specific open commands to kill non-believers like in Islam. That’s a plus for those 2 Abrahamic faiths, for sure. If the Jews could just admit that there Abrahamic faith is supremacist (“god’s chosen people”), like Nazism, then that would go a long way to bringing peace to the Middle East.
Defcon 4 says
“Israel’s illegal occupation”. The islam0nazis would agree, but of course, you already knew that.
Angemon says
Is it just me or mr. Dude is having an identity crisis? He’s spewing the standard muslim/leftist rhetoric, mixing in random bits from anti-muslim bigotry and trying to come out smelling like roses by pretending to be a cultural relativist.
voegelinian says
Mr. Dude has been spewing such a mountain of shit, filled with provocative red herrings, intermixed with occasional anti-Islam bromides, that most readers don’t seem to realize what he is.
Just to pick one exchange out of dozens one could adduce over the past few days (copy-pasted from just above me here):
Mo
March 10, 2014 at 9:58 pm
@ Mr. Dude
“Christians/Jews have killed more people than the Muslims have in the the last 10 years…”
Liar.
So where are those open ended commands from the Bible commanding Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers? Or all the examples of them obeying these commands.
What a liar you are. Thanks for wasting two days of my life.
Reply
Mr. Dude
March 10, 2014 at 10:28 pm
Iraq…..Afghanistan…..PT…..nations defending Israel’s illegal occupation…
Where is gravenimage and dumbledoresarmy to kick this guy’s ass? Are you guys asleep or something?
voegelinian says
Mr. Dude has been spewing such a mountain of shit, filled with provocative red herrings, intermixed with occasional anti-Islam bromides, that most readers don’t seem to realize what he is.
Just to pick one exchange out of dozens one could adduce over the past few days (copy-pasted from just above me here):
Mo [quoting Dude, then commenting to him]
March 10, 2014 at 9:58 pm
@ Mr. Dude
“Christians/Jews have killed more people than the Muslims have in the the last 10 years…”
Liar.
So where are those open ended commands from the Bible commanding Jews or Christians to commit violence against unbelievers? Or all the examples of them obeying these commands.
What a liar you are. Thanks for wasting two days of my life.
Reply
Mr. Dude then replied:
March 10, 2014 at 10:28 pm
Iraq…..Afghanistan…..PT…..nations defending Israel’s illegal occupation…
*******
Israel’s “illegal occupation”???
“Christians/Jews have killed more people than the Muslims have in the the last 10 years…” ???
Where is gravenimage and dumbledoresarmy to kick this guy’s ass? Are you guys asleep or something?
inquisador says
Sounds like Mr Dude is a syndicate of trolls working together.
Just ignore them.
gravenimage says
Here’s an update on the story above, courtesy of KCBS News:
The two holding the stolen passports were *Iranian*. There is speculation that these were asylum seekers ultimately bound for Europe.
There was not enough information to indicate whether the “asylum seeker” angle has some sort of plausible basis, or is just wishful thinking.
Certainly, it is extraordinarily odd for an Iranian seeking asylum in Europe to travel via Malaysia and China.
Most Iranians seeking asylum access Europe via Turkey, because it is one of the few places that Iranians can (fairly) easily travel to, and because of its proximity to Europe.
One other fact that is emerging: the airliner was last spotted far off course over the Strait of Malacca.
This suggests either massive instrument failure or hijacking—and the latter, of course, could be either a passenger hijacking or “sudden Jihad syndrome” in one or both pilots.
Champ says
Thank you for the update, Graven!
dumbledoresarmy says
It’s suspicious as hell.
Here’s the latest report we had at our Aussie news.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-12/malaysia-military-tracked-missing-plane-to-west/5314212
‘”It changed course after Kota Bharu and took a lower altitude. It made it into the Malacca Strait,” a senior military officer, who has been briefed on investigations, told Reuters.
‘That would appear to rule out sudden catastrophic mechanical failure, as it would mean **the plane flew around 500 kilometres at least after its last contact with air traffic control, although its transponder and other tracking systems were off.** {my emphasis – dda}.
‘The effect of turning off the transponder is to make the aircraft inert to secondary radar, so civil controllers cannot identify it.
Secondary radar interrogates the transponder and gets information about the plane’s identity, speed and height.
It would, however, still be visible to primary radar, which is used by militaries.”
The *transponder* was **turned off**. To repeat, **the transponder was TURNED OFF**.
That’s the thing that makes a civilian plane “visible” to civilian radar. Turn that thing off, and the only thing that can still ‘see’ you is military radar.
I would **bet ** that there is no way in hell that that transponder would simply malfunction – or that anyone legit would knowingly fly with it not functioning.
Either it was sabotaged before the plane took off – with a timer? – or *someone on board that plane turned it off*, and there is no way that that could be motivated by anything but malevolent intent.
Mazo says
Your lack of knowledge on anything in general has been exposed. Again.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/11/iranian-lawmaker-dismisses-blame-attached-to-flight-370/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
“Thousands of Iranians, if not more, wait in Asian countries with friendly visa rules to make journeys to the West and to Australia. Thailand, Malaysia and Indonesia in particular are popular springboards for middle-class Iranians who enter on tourist visas and are then helped by local travel agents and human smugglers to travel to Western countries.”
voegelinian says
I’m glad for the few Jihad Watchers who are spending their time and energy demonstrating how specious and inimical Mr. Dude’s posts are. The conspicuous silence of other long-time JW regulars, however, I notice, have bookmarked (the many threads where Mr. Dude has been depositing mountains of shit) — and will remember.
Kepha Hor says
I was going to post on my take on the airplane’s disappearance, Uighurs, and China; but see the thread is hijacked by Mr. Dude. If this goes through, I’ll take my chances on the next report on the airplane disappearance.
gravenimage says
So—what is ultimately going on with the egregious “Mr. Dude”?
At this point we have seen reams of his posts—enough to get a pretty good sense of his agenda:
Again, I believe that Islam is as bad as Christianity, and not better than Christianity.
……………………………….
This is not merely moral equivalency—bad enough—but actually positing Christianity as *worse* than oppressive and sanguinary Islam.
More:
Followers of Abrahamic faiths, unless they will say their prophet was dead wrong…
……………………………….
This is profoundly strange, since Judaism and Christianity do not have ‘a prophet’—this is a specific reference to Islam—hence, more muddled moral equivalence.
“Mr. Dude” has been even more overt, actually referring to “Mohammad/Jesus” as though he were a single figure espousing the same values.
More:
“I do not believe that Islam is better than Christianity, overall. Christianity is worse than Islam in many areas, and yes, Islam is indeed worse than Christianity in many areas. They are about equal, overall….or maybe Islam is a bit worse, but not much worse…”
……………………………….
More of the same—which is odd, because even if he were correct in his absurd assertions—which he *is not*—the worst he has explicitly accused Jesus of is sins of omission—i.e., not explicitly condemning evil, rather than actually committing evil, as did the “Prophet”.
More:
This belief allows ridiculous beliefs such as “we Jews are god’s chosen people”, or that “God favors us Muslims”, etc.. Stop doing that, and the jihad ends in the near future
……………………………….
Here he is, blaming Jews for the horror of Jihad, and implying that they could end Jihad if only they gave up their faith.
This is sickeningly false.
More:
He’s [Robert Spencer] helping bring down one of the Abrahamic faiths, possibly more so than any person in history (none have had the internet at their disposal – until the last 10 years of so of course.)
……………………………….
This is at least the second time that “Mr. Dude” had made the bizarre assertion that Robert Spencer is working to destroy “Abrahamic faith”—of course, no one uses this term except Taqiyya-spewing Muslims (and the guileless interfaith crowd, but that would not appear to be “Mr. Dude’s” reference).
More:
Muslims and others will counter the criticism of Islam with criticism of the other Abrahamic faiths, since that’s so easy to do, so I’m obviously in heaven…
……………………………….
If “Mr. Dude” were *actually* opposed to Jihad, why would he be “in heaven” over Muslims (supposedly) being enabled by Jews and Christians?
More:
Christians/Jews have killed more people than the Muslims have in the the last 10 years, but they have more sophisticated weaponry, so they don’t need to resort to typical “terrorism”. It’s state sponsored terrorism, such as defending an illegal state (that was STARTED by pure terrorism in the first place – Israel) that engages in religious Apartheid and continues to slowly steadily actually steal more and more land bit by bit…
……………………………….
This is, of course, *utterly false*, just in terms of sheer numbers. It also ignores the fact that Jews and Christians have fought *defensively*, and have been at pains to avoid any civilian casualties.
He also lies about Israel being expansionist—for instance, he ignores the ceding of the Sinai and of Gaza. Instead, it is Islam that is expansionist and seeks to wipe Israel off the map.
More:
“We are god’s chosen people” is nothing but a recipe for disaster! Was it Hitler that said “we Aryans are god’s chosen people” or was it the Jews, that said they were god’s chosen people….kind of hard to tell, really.
……………………………….
Very common with Muslim apologists, falsely comparing Jews to Nazis. And yet, it is Muslims who talk about finishing the job Hitler started and speak admiringly about the Holocaust, and who use slogans like “Hamas, Hamas! Jews to the gas!”.
This is grotesque projection.
More:
The Christian majority nation of America is using high-tech terrorism (drones) to terrorize parts of the world, but are too cowardly to take on the underlying belief system of their enemy (Islam), because of course they realize that a close examination of an Abrahamic faith will land in their OWN Abrahamic lap as well…
……………………………….
What *absolute crap*. It is, rather, the other way ’round—many uninformed Americans are inclined to believe that Islam is a religion of peace because Christianity and Judaism are.
And characterizing defense *against* Jihad terrorism as “terrorism” is false—and a common trope of Muslim apologists.
More:
The other Abrhamic faith (Muslims) in the Middle East have been no better, though…
……………………………….
Again, “Mr. Dude” is positing Christianity as the evil, and sanguinary Islam merely as being “no better”.
More:
Iraq…..Afghanistan…..PT…..nations defending Israel’s illegal occupation (indirectly, in Iraq and Afghanistan,as well as the PT) have better weapons so are much more effective than what the Islamic terrorists have done…
……………………………….
*Lots* of nasty bs here—again, falsely implying that Jews and Christians are indiscriminately murdering Muslims, and moreover are doing so on a scale much larger than that of Islam is just crap.
And note his assertion that America’s presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, which have been—no matter how muddled—a defense against Jihad, is actually “defending Israel’s illegal occupation”.
This is typical for Muslim apologists—the idea that *any* defense against Jihad is spurred by the ‘perfidious Jews’, and that if it were not for Jews that all other Infidels would just roll over for Jihad and Shari’ah.
And it is pretty clear that what he regards as “Israel’s illegal occupation” is not just her holding the “West Bank”, but her existing at all.
More:
…It’s more the belief that the Messiah will return, so they need to support the strategically-located nation of Israel (fundamentalist Christians and Jews believe this)…
……………………………….
Here “Mr. Dude” is flogging the idea that Americans do not support Israel because she is our staunch ally and the only democratic nation in the Middle East, but only out of millenarianism. What crap.
More:
If the Jews could just admit that there (sic) Abrahamic faith is supremacist (“god’s chosen people”), like Nazism, then that would go a long way to bringing peace to the Middle East.
……………………………….
More crap. Jews and Gentiles alike enjoy equal rights in Israel. The implication that Jews are waging a Holocaust against Muslims is *grotesque*.
The idea that it is Judaism that is responsible for the Jihad against Israel is sickening, and that the main impediment to peace in the Middle East is the presence of Jews. This is only true if “Mr. Dude’s” vision for the Levant is Judenrein.
More:
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/
….that site shows over 121,000 deaths, most all of which were killed by either a “Crusader” (well they are defending Israel, the Christians are), or the Jihadists, in one country alone.
……………………………….
Again, the assertion that Americans and coalition forces are “defending Israel” in Iraq is ridiculous—and now he refers to them as “Crusaders”. The *only* people referring to coalition forces as “Crusaders” are Jihadists.
He implies that we are acting specifically *as Christians*—as though the nations of the West were theocracies.
Also, the vast majority of people killed in Iraq—and virtually all the civilians—have been killed by Jihadists, something “Mr. Dude” barely hints at.
All in all I believe it is quite clear that “Mr. Dude’s” agenda is to savagely attack Jews and Christians here—his throwing in the odd negative reference to Jihad is pretty much an afterthought, and only serves to his appearing to be a plausible Anti-Jihadist—and then, only for those few who may not be paying much attention.
gravenimage says
So—what is ultimately going on with the egregious “Mr. Dude”?
At this point we have seen reams of his posts—enough to get a pretty good sense of his agenda:
Again, I believe that Islam is as bad as Christianity, and not better than Christianity.
……………………………….
This is not merely moral equivalency—bad enough—but actually positing Christianity as *worse* than oppressive and sanguinary Islam.
More:
Followers of Abrahamic faiths, unless they will say their prophet was dead wrong…
……………………………….
This is profoundly strange, since Judaism and Christianity do not have ‘a prophet’—this is a specific reference to Islam—hence, more muddled moral equivalence.
“Mr. Dude” has been even more overt, actually referring to “Mohammad/Jesus” as though he were a single figure espousing the same values.
More:
“I do not believe that Islam is better than Christianity, overall. Christianity is worse than Islam in many areas, and yes, Islam is indeed worse than Christianity in many areas. They are about equal, overall….or maybe Islam is a bit worse, but not much worse…”
……………………………….
More of the same—which is odd, because even if he were correct in his absurd assertions—which he *is not*—the worst he has explicitly accused Jesus of is sins of omission—i.e., not explicitly condemning evil, rather than actually committing evil, as did the “Prophet”.
More:
This belief allows ridiculous beliefs such as “we Jews are god’s chosen people”, or that “God favors us Muslims”, etc.. Stop doing that, and the jihad ends in the near future
……………………………….
Here he is, blaming Jews for the horror of Jihad, and implying that they could end Jihad if only they gave up their faith.
This is sickeningly false.
More:
He’s [Robert Spencer] helping bring down one of the Abrahamic faiths, possibly more so than any person in history (none have had the internet at their disposal – until the last 10 years of so of course.)
……………………………….
This is at least the second time that “Mr. Dude” had made the bizarre assertion that Robert Spencer is working to destroy “Abrahamic faith”—of course, no one uses this term except Taqiyya-spewing Muslims (and the guileless interfaith crowd, but that would not appear to be “Mr. Dude’s” reference).
More:
Muslims and others will counter the criticism of Islam with criticism of the other Abrahamic faiths, since that’s so easy to do, so I’m obviously in heaven…
……………………………….
If “Mr. Dude” were *actually* opposed to Jihad, why would he be “in heaven” over Muslims (supposedly) being enabled by Jews and Christians?
More:
Christians/Jews have killed more people than the Muslims have in the the last 10 years, but they have more sophisticated weaponry, so they don’t need to resort to typical “terrorism”. It’s state sponsored terrorism, such as defending an illegal state (that was STARTED by pure terrorism in the first place – Israel) that engages in religious Apartheid and continues to slowly steadily actually steal more and more land bit by bit…
……………………………….
This is, of course, *utterly false*, just in terms of sheer numbers. It also ignores the fact that Jews and Christians have fought *defensively*, and have been at pains to avoid any civilian casualties.
He also lies about Israel being expansionist—for instance, he ignores the ceding of the Sinai and of Gaza. Instead, it is Islam that is expansionist and seeks to wipe Israel off the map.
More:
“We are god’s chosen people” is nothing but a recipe for disaster! Was it Hitler that said “we Aryans are god’s chosen people” or was it the Jews, that said they were god’s chosen people….kind of hard to tell, really.
……………………………….
Very common with Muslim apologists, falsely comparing Jews to Nazis. And yet, it is Muslims who talk about finishing the job Hitler started and speak admiringly about the Holocaust, and who use slogans like “Hamas, Hamas! Jews to the gas!”.
This is grotesque projection.
More:
The Christian majority nation of America is using high-tech terrorism (drones) to terrorize parts of the world, but are too cowardly to take on the underlying belief system of their enemy (Islam), because of course they realize that a close examination of an Abrahamic faith will land in their OWN Abrahamic lap as well…
……………………………….
What *absolute crap*. It is, rather, the other way ’round—many uninformed Americans are inclined to believe that Islam is a religion of peace because Christianity and Judaism are.
And characterizing defense *against* Jihad terrorism as “terrorism” is false—and a common trope of Muslim apologists.
More:
The other Abrhamic faith (Muslims) in the Middle East have been no better, though…
……………………………….
Again, “Mr. Dude” is positing Christianity as the evil, and sanguinary Islam merely as being “no better”.
More:
Iraq…..Afghanistan…..PT…..nations defending Israel’s illegal occupation (indirectly, in Iraq and Afghanistan,as well as the PT) have better weapons so are much more effective than what the Islamic terrorists have done…
……………………………….
*Lots* of nasty bs here—again, falsely implying that Jews and Christians are indiscriminately murdering Muslims, and moreover are doing so on a scale much larger than that of Islam is just crap.
And note his assertion that America’s presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, which have been—no matter how muddled—a defense against Jihad, is actually “defending Israel’s illegal occupation”.
This is typical for Muslim apologists—the idea that *any* defense against Jihad is spurred by the ‘perfidious Jews’, and that if it were not for Jews that all other Infidels would just roll over for Jihad and Shari’ah.
And it is pretty clear that what he regards as “Israel’s illegal occupation” is not just her holding the “West Bank”, but her existing at all.
More:
…It’s more the belief that the Messiah will return, so they need to support the strategically-located nation of Israel (fundamentalist Christians and Jews believe this)…
……………………………….
Here “Mr. Dude” is flogging the idea that Americans do not support Israel because she is our staunch ally and the only democratic nation in the Middle East, but only out of millenarianism. What crap.
More:
If the Jews could just admit that there (sic) Abrahamic faith is supremacist (“god’s chosen people”), like Nazism, then that would go a long way to bringing peace to the Middle East.
……………………………….
More crap. Jews and Gentiles alike enjoy equal rights in Israel. The implication that Jews are waging a Holocaust against Muslims is *grotesque*.
The idea that it is Judaism that is responsible for the Jihad against Israel is sickening, and that the main impediment to peace in the Middle East is the presence of Jews. This is only true if “Mr. Dude’s” vision for the Levant is Judenrein.
More:
https://www.iraqbodycount.org/
….that site shows over 121,000 deaths, most all of which were killed by either a “Crusader” (well they are defending Israel, the Christians are), or the Jihadists, in one country alone.
……………………………….
Again, the assertion that Americans and coalition forces are “defending Israel” in Iraq is ridiculous—and now he refers to them as “Crusaders”. The *only* people referring to coalition forces as “Crusaders” are Jihadists.
He implies that we are acting specifically *as Christians*—as though the nations of the West were theocracies.
Also, the vast majority of people killed in Iraq—and virtually all the civilians—have been killed by Jihadists, something “Mr. Dude” barely hints at.
All in all I believe it is quite clear that “Mr. Dude’s” agenda is to savagely attack Jews and Christians here—his throwing in the odd negative reference to Jihad is pretty much an afterthought, and only serves to his appearing to be a plausible Anti-Jihadist—and then, only for those few who may not be paying much attention…
Mr. Obvious says
A routine flight 45 minutes into it’s normal course and the plane suddenly changes course directly toward basically every Islamic-majority country known on the planet. Just after this direction-change the plane climbs to 45,000 feet then back down to 23,000 feet just like one of the 911 hijacked planes did when passengers tried storming the hijackers. What happened was 3 or 4 hours later passengers tried a heroic effort again and that time the plane went into the Ocean. Mark my words this will pan-out to be an Islamist hijacking effort based on what we know at this point. For those who don’t accept this premise, and it IS a pretty generalized premise, the following article is pretty good at describing a politically upset pilot:
http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=244482:shock-political-twist-after-days-of-secretly-holding-pilots-laptop-is-msian-pm-out-to-blame-anwar